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  • IS? it appointed ONCE for all men to die?

    an explanation by Gregory B Garrett that is for a believer's edification.
    http://www.newchristianchurch.org/


    it was taken from an article called ''the immortal letter''.
    The beginning of the letter says this.

    THE IMMORTALITY LETTER
    June 16, 1999
    Dear Pastor Livingston,
    I am a Christian who enjoys listening to the afternoon Glimpse Of Calvary radio broadcast on WGNZ-Dayton during my forty-minute
    drive to General Motors.
    I have enjoyed listening to many inspira-
    tional sermons preached by both you and your father, respectively.
    On the afternoon of Wednesday, April 14th, I was listening to the re- cording of your sermon about Mary, the sister of Martha, anointing
    the feet of Jesus with the ointment of spikenard. During the course
    of this sermon, you stated, "Death is certain." That statement of
    yours lit a fuse in me. I thought, "Jesus never taught that. How
    could the pastor believe that? He’s a learned man of God who has studied the scriptures." Some time later I had a flash of insight and thought, "I have to tell him.


    nearing the end of this letter he writes.

    Hebrews 9:27
    The best possible scriptural argument I can think of which people
    will use to argue against physical immortality is Hebrews 9:27, where
    we read –
    "And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this
    the judgment."

    Rebuttal To Hebrews 9:27
    Upon careful examination of the scriptures, we find that our obligatory
    appointment with death may be realized through water baptism.
    Please consider the following scriptures:

    Romans 6:3 – "Know ye not, that so many of us as were baptized in-
    to Jesus Christ were baptized INTO HIS DEATH."

    Romans 6:4 – "Therefore we are buried with him by baptism INTO DEATH: that like as Christ was raised up from the dead by the glory
    of the Father, even so WE ALSO SHOULD WALK IN NEWNESS
    OF LIFE."

    Colossians 2:12 – "BURIED WITH HIM in baptism, wherein also YE
    ARE RISEN WITH HIM through the faith of the operation of God,
    who hath raised him from the dead."

    When we are baptized, we are baptized into the death of Jesus
    Christ.
    This is meant to be taken literally, not figuratively or symbolically.
    Water baptism thus constitutes the fulfillment of our obligatory appointment with death, as mentioned in Hebrews 9:27.

    In the future, I envision Christians rising up out of the baptismal
    fount and declaring for all to hear, "I CLAIM MY PHYSICAL IMMORTALITY THROUGH THE LORD JESUS CHRIST."
    while i may not agree [as yet] on all points here...nonetheless i agree on LIFE NOW and the truth about the Gospel of the Saviour- why, even the name SAVIOUR, tells us all ''what it is about''.

    lucy

  • #2
    empowerment..............

    Gregory Garrett writes.
    First Dream
    Later that day while sleeping, I dreamed I was standing out in the
    middle of a field and looking up at the darkest, most ominous sky
    I have ever seen. There were black and purple clouds moving around
    and suddenly a lightning bolt emerged from where I was looking up
    and struck me. I had absolutely no fear as this happened.
    Being struck by this lightning bolt actually made me feel quite exhil- arated. I then woke up and thought,
    "What a wonderful, tremendous dream."
    I felt empowered.
    The more I thought about this dream, the
    more I realized it was the result of having claimed my physical immortality through The Lord Jesus Christ several hours earlier.
    Father shall give dreams and visions. That is biblical.

    i notice here this man says . I felt empowered and yes, this is what happens.
    The power/strength/abiding ability comes, as our faith [Acting on our belief] and we overcome.
    I think some are just on the verge of this awesome unlimitness, so they have to learn how to work in UNLIMITED.
    It does not come till the overcoming is fully understood and obeyed....remembering Yahushua said ''My time is not yet come''., Yet after this HE DID HIS 1ST MIRACLE at Cana.

    We as a believer CLAIM our new revelation belief - SAY IT OUT aloud.
    Now remember this The Saviour is interceeding to the uttermost on behalf of His people.....is His intercession denied?

    Comment


    • #3
      this is exactly what happens to Pal Spying and LucySmith

      Gregory Garret wrote this..........
      Initial Reaction Of Others!

      During the first few days after claiming my physical immortality
      through The Lord Jesus Christ, I showed a few people at work
      scriptures dealing with immortality, including Jesus’ statement
      and question in St. John 11:26.

      All I got for my efforts was skepticism
      and disbelief, even from my Christian friend X.
      yes, this happens hardly any people shall believe this GOODNEWS.....they cannot for they have not received the gift [ the seed of incorruption] for eternal life. WITHOUT THE SEED, there can be no IMMORTAL LIFE.
      the seed grows, the seed is the sperm and the sperm is THE WORD OBEYED.

      shall we consider this.... not one pew person who sits under their religious denominational leadership, realises they are rebels as the 1st principle of any assembly is UNITY....A ONENESS.... not division. [see 1 corn 1 v 10 for this truth]

      death is IN DIVISION.

      here is a living example.
      My husband and i raised up our children in stores from a young age.
      because they worked and helped, we pooled our money and when each child needed a home, we bought them and we all paid off their homes.....we were not dividied as most all families are today and have to battle for themselves for not too many have learnt the value of FAMILY UNITY.
      Same principle goes with the religious corporation called ''the church''. No unity = death and perishing.!
      These Religious palaces of corruption, deal with corrupt pew people.
      If this was not so, incorruptable people, called Believers with His seed in them called THE LIFE wILL NEVER partake of their craziness.

      AS SOON AS THE INCORRUPTABLE SEED enters into a person.... they walk away from the pews!
      ''come out from her MY PEOPLE, and do not partake of her sins''.
      The Believer actually believes what their Saviour is telling them.
      His sperm seed in them cannot do otherwise, for these believer's were known by the real Father from the foundation of the world.
      if ye notice many people who once wrote on Lo-Ammi have stopped writting, or have gone elsewhere. They had too, for they were unable to bear the holy Life of THE TRUTH.
      yes, they could write about this study and this religious opinion and parrot off dozens of man made creeds ideals but never once did they KNOW ABOUT ....THE LIFE.... they were only built upon ''men's words'' and a habit or a bad habit called the christian religion - a misdenoma ofcourse.
      why?
      death is IN them.
      death controls them
      death rules over them
      death is their friend and lord so they become what 'death wishes''.

      so long has this culture prevailed it is ''acceptable'' but NEVER TO THE BELIEVER.

      NOWAY!

      Comment


      • #4
        Lets look at this statement.

        written by Gregory Garrett.

        2,000 Year-Old Christians Alive!
        Just think, there are people alive today who listened to words spoken
        by Jesus which are recorded in the Bible. God has revealed to
        me in dreams where these 2,000 year-old Semite Christians are liv-
        ing. They are living in India,
        I take this part.....they are living in india.
        now, I think it strange that all the ''new age talk'' comes out from eastern religion,[india ] they have their guru's talking on immortal life and how to achieve it thru diet and mediation. [false ofcourse]
        also
        isnt THE MYTH OF SHANG -RA- LA, from the east? a hidden valley out there somewhere where bliss exists.????
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shangri-La
        how do legends begin?
        if u take the trouble to google immortals u will find all types of information not normally known about, even names of ''immortals''.

        http://www.newdawnmagazine.com/artic..._part_one.html
        here is another reference.

        so, the world seems to understand ''the myth'' [the posibility of immortality] but not the religious 1/2 baked corporation called ''the church''...yet... in the book they ''treasure'' is found ''PUT OFF MORTAL AND PUT ON IMMORTAL.... and that sure is not from the tomb but here and now called OVERCOMING THE LAST ENEMY.

        SO! why do other cultures know immortality but the ''christian so called church'' scoffs at such a mystery.
        I think the church is full of CRACKPOTS. people who believe lies and accept misinteruptations as the truth and paganism as real facts.
        CRACKPOTS.....
        CRACK POT
        A CRACKED POT ARE PEOPLE WHO ARE TOTALLY unable to hold onto real life.
        THEIR LIFE, seeps out from their sinning wounds.
        they are like a corrupt masses of oozing sores....sin does this....that is why they die - sins kills them!
        the real truth is SIN KILLS.

        THEIR DOCTORS SHOULD WRITE ON THEIR DEATH CERTIFICATE = SIN KILLED THIS PERSON = now that is the truth.

        Comment


        • #5
          NOW, lets look at Greg's revelation

          Gregory Garrett writes.

          Aren’t witnesses people who have observed
          certain events?
          hey Messiah Yahushua said
          "You shall be My witnesses,"
          Do we ''accept'' the usual interuption of this verse or is there another version.

          what is a witness.
          JOHN IS A WITNESS

          word ref.

          Main Entry: wit·ness

          : attestation of a fact or event
          : testimony
          : one that gives evidence specifically
          : one who testifies in a cause or before a judicial tribunal
          : one asked to be present at a transaction so as to be able to testify to its having taken place
          : one who has personal knowledge of something
          : something serving as evidence or proof
          : sign


          Yahushua has WITNESS ES....OR.....ATESTEES to His goodnews.
          Everything that Yahushua claimed has to be attested too by witnesses.
          His divine claims, have to hold up, by His witnesses.

          These witnesses have had to be PRESENT otherwise they are not a witness.
          Messiah said....''SHALL BE''......my witness

          something to ponder.

          Comment


          • #6
            From The Beginning!

            Hi Lucy,

            My Dear Lady, you are afire! The spirit of ELOHIM is astir within you.

            The Greek word for witness is "martus". The English word "martyr" I suspect is taken directly from the verb of this word.

            There exist two ways to bear witness to LIFE:
            • Through giving up physical life in martyrdom when we are hated without cause!
            • Through abiding or remaining to tell others about what we have seen or observed!
            Which is the greater witness?

            Christianity believes in the former and denies the latter because she cannot imagine why Witnesses (Martyrs) would remain alive without speaking to all of them personally!

            According to the Word of ELOHIM, there is a time for everything, is there not?

            If Christianity and the world does not receive the witness of John through what He has written, how and why would they receive His Testimony if He should stand before them?

            I have a sure sense that we must bear witness first and then John and other Witnesses become icing on the cake.

            Consider these words of Messiah Yahushua:
            John 15:26-27
            26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify (martureo) of me:
            27 And ye also shall bear witness (martureo), because ye have been with me from the beginning.
            I find this phrase "from the beginning" very intriguing. Indeed, have we been with Messiah "from the beginning"?

            Sincerely, Spying
            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi! Spying, i find all this 'expose' fasinating

              and what is more, very interesting too.
              It is awesome to see how Father reveals His secrets to others in an unique way.

              now, can we discover more about this word.
              BE-GINN-ING.

              v. 27 And ye also shall bear witness (martureo), because ye have been with me from the beginning.
              ps from Lucy
              Spying...do ye see inside this word [martureo] another word MATURE Spying, these ''witnesses'' are mature/maturing not babes.

              I find this phrase "from the beginning" very intriguing.
              Indeed, have we been with Messiah "from the beginning"?

              Sincerely, Spying
              Spying,
              i shall appear foolish to some how i do this, but a good detective sifts thru and deduces from clues!

              so here goes.....



              Main Entry: be·gin·ning
              Pronunciation: \bi-ˈgi-niŋ, bē-\
              Function: noun
              Date: 12th century
              1 : the point at which something begins : start
              2 : the first part
              3 : origin, source


              i could write.
              ''And ye also shall bear witness (martureo), because ye have been with me from the beginning.'' you have been with Me, from the 1st part, from the origin, from the source

              ummmm....

              now i will break up the word beginning...
              be-gin-ning.
              BE
              GINNING.

              The word ''ginning'' means... to separate (cotton fiber) from seeds and waste material

              ''be separated from waste material'?

              again....

              GIN - : a colorless alcoholic beverage [spirit] made from distilled or redistilled neutral grain spirits flavored with juniper berries and aromatics (as anise and caraway seeds)

              GIN IS A SPIRIT.

              so LET US LOOK AT THIS AGAIN.
              ''ye have been with Me from the beginning''.

              could it mean - these people were with Messiah from the beginning of their spirit......prior to....their lowering.
              AND
              they were returning to BE SPIRIT or back to their true beginnings.
              Therefore they would be in ENDLESS LIFE, for there has always been SPIRIT but not always VISIBILITY.

              ''In the beginning was THE WORD''....these people were returning back TO THE WORD.

              *From The beginning*
              has to be when these people were spiritual beings too.
              and their processing now was, ''GINNING'' - to be separated from their flesh - as Christ was separated.

              To be separated from our flesh means we walk in the SPIRIT OF LIFE....HENCE NO DEATH/perishing/destruction, is ever recorded against us in the BOOK.

              all manner of 'death'' has been overcome, during the testing trials on earth.
              The race has been won.
              The crown of Life received.

              these are HIS WITNESSES [martureo - the made whole, the perfected, the winners of their race, the lifers, the new creature manifesting, the completed in Christ, the Zion city of God, the living stones....amen to them all FATHERS HEROS OF FAITH] and i KNOW i have written the truth. amen.

              Comment


              • #8
                Dittos!

                Hi Lucy,

                Only those who listen to Rush Limbaugh would know know the nature of my answer:

                Dittos

                and to what do I say "Dittos"?
                i KNOW i have written the truth. amen.
                Sincerely, Spying
                The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Spying View Post
                  Hi Lucy,

                  Only those who listen to Rush Limbaugh would know know the nature of my answer:

                  Dittos

                  and to what do I say "Dittos"?Sincerely, Spying
                  hey Spying - thanks for explaining Rush Limbaugh to me. now i 'get it''.


                  i would like now to go further into this ''immortal'' letter,
                  --------------------------------


                  Spying this man Gregory Garrett heard this "Death is certain"


                  and Objected to it, so much so he wrote to this radio Pastor....
                  Now is this not the very thing that happened to us too! kinda in the same way and now we write to tell others who are trapped [as we once we trapped] into a locked mind that ''my church is right and i cannot go outside their influences, cuz they know!''.

                  We have written thousands of words regrading *THE* life
                  and you know something very interesting - the more we write THE MORE FULLNESS OF HIS LIFE CALLED *THE* LIFE WE POSSESS. it is because we have been faithfull to His revealings when spiritual darkness called gross darkness covers this world like a death shroud.

                  here is a dream this man has

                  Seventh Dream
                  In this dream, I was approached by a young lady. I could sense
                  the most tremendous spiritual purity emanating from this lady
                  as she said to me, "You have to really try." As she turned to leave,
                  I asked her, "What’s your name?" She replied, "Kathy," and that
                  was the end of the dream. Her name really baffled me. I described
                  this dream to M.C. and he didn’t understand it either.
                  After thinking about her name for a few days, the answer came to
                  me. I remembered reading about the Cathars a few years ago. The Cathars were a Christian sect which originated in Europe during
                  the tenth century. They were still growing in the thirteenth century
                  when the mercenary armies of Pope Innocent III slaughtered them
                  and burned down their villages for the crime of heresy.
                  The Cathars took their name from the Greek word katharos, which means purity. Kathy is short for katharos. In a later dream, Kathy
                  gave me a very easy hint regarding the location in India of the Chris-
                  tian immortals.

                  now this maybe so ..... who knows.... if i rush off to India u shall know i now know!!!!!
                  however, WHAT I DO FIND FASINATING here is that the paradisical myth place called Shang ra-la is envisaged as a tropical retreat in the middle of snow covered mouintains..... why?
                  why would the tropics be in the middle of huge snowing mountains?

                  so i now pose this question - after all it........................
                  never hurts to ask nor appear to look stupid if we learn from our asking. Great detection sometimes stems from stupid inquiries hey!

                  could it be, these ''immortals'' understand ''controlling climate'' just as the wind and the waves obeyed Messiah?

                  and what is the MAJOR factor in all our news papers today but
                  CLIMATE CHANGE!!!!
                  http://www.climatechangenews.org/
                  UMMMM.
                  and Global warming!

                  I am not interested in ''their theories'' they are the Matrix and believe anything however i am interested in the words and the clues in the natural world.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    at the end of the immortal letter Gregory Garret mentions

                    a man called leonard Orr..... here is some of his words and thinking recorded.





                    Physical Immortality - Two Powerful Words
                    by Leonard Orr.
                    in part he writes

                    A mind expanded by a new idea can never return to its former size.
                    Two common words in everyone’s vocabulary when combined into one idea become one of the most powerful ideas in the universe.
                    Physical is a very common word.
                    Immortality is also a common word.
                    When you combine them, you get the idea of physical immortality.
                    I’ve been exposing people to the idea of physical immortality for over 30 years.

                    lucy says
                    - but is it from THE LIFE of Christ?


                    Physical immortality means victory over physical death.
                    It means body and mind mastery.
                    Our Spirit is already an immortal master.
                    Lucy -
                    our Spirit needs to be awakened into the ways of Our Saviour and His message.


                    This simple thought of physical immortality makes us realize that although death may be popular, it is not inevitable.
                    Lucy -
                    yes this lines up with 2 Tim. 1 v 9-10-11


                    Physical death is optional.
                    Lucy - yes.
                    death can be overcome but few find this overcoming, yet a believer is asked to ''seek'' immortality.


                    The whole purpose of Jesus Christ was to teach us this.
                    Lucy -
                    yes this is HIS MESSAGE AND HOW HE DEMONSTRATED BY HIS LIFE ON EARTH


                    But Jesus was not the first nor the last human to conquer death.
                    The Hebrew Bible is about five main immortal humans: Elijah, Moses, Melchizadek, and Enoch.
                    Lucy-
                    NOT SURE ON Moses? need more revelation, however he was on the Mt. of transfiguration - i dont at present understand this.


                    In the beginning of Bible history, everyone lived 500 to 1000 years.
                    India has its immortal yogis.
                    Every continent has its favorite immortals, including native Americans.
                    I’ve made this one of my favorite research projects for 37 years.
                    Why do Christians die?
                    Why? If Jesus died to save us from sin and death?

                    lucy
                    exactly Spying and i ask this same question of the forums we get banned from. Not one person has ever responded to this question = it is if they fail even to see the question


                    The founders and heroes and heroines of most religions who conquered death do not have a local address on planet Earth.
                    lucy-
                    I dont know of this - only the people mentioned in the bible


                    When I learned about the immortal yogis who do, I was so excited I couldn’t wait to meet them. Since my first trip to India in 1977, I have met over 8 immortals who each have maintained their body for at least 300 years.
                    People have to be at least 300 to qualify for my research.
                    I know of many more that I haven’t had a chance to meet yet.

                    Lucy-
                    Have they come thru the way of overcoming or another route?


                    I’ve met several who are over 2000.
                    These are yogis who have maintained a local address on planet Earth for over 2000 years.
                    I’ve written books about two of them: Babaji and Bhartriji.
                    People often tell me that after my lecture or book in which the idea of physical immortality got their attention, they couldn’t stop thinking about it for several years. It makes so much sense.
                    How could people be blinded by the death is inevitable belief system for so long?

                    After teaching the truth about physical immortality for over 30 years, I’ve concluded that the reason people don’t like to know about it is because it I involves a little spiritual work and personal changes.
                    Lucy -
                    yes, the death on the cross to self.
                    Unless this happens i cannot see how a person can have endless life, wearing the robe of righteousness by overcoming their last enemy death


                    Physical immortality is the natural result of a mind filled with wisdom and aliveness.

                    The three basic causes of death are:

                    ignorance
                    emotional energy pollution
                    poor diet.

                    lucy-
                    well self effort shall never make an immortal - overcoming our last enemy shall. THE HOLY SPIRIT directs this path.

                    obviously there is a case of immortal life.
                    Death occurs because of personal carnal minded thinking - this has to be trained out of a believer by the refining processing of the Holy Spirit.
                    The training is all important for this is realm crossing [like a bridge] and we can only walk across called ''entering in'' by obedience to His word in all things following the Master as He says ''FOLLOW ME''. There is no other way but the way of 'death to self''.
                    We can believe all we like but without our own personal death to our carnal mind, we go nowhere.
                    The CHRISTmind IS THE WAY!

                    however...Let us be frank. We all know that
                    "Jesus died for our sins"?
                    ok
                    why do church people die?
                    It is a paradox and Unless Father opens up the answer to His believer mind, there is no way anyone can get the gist of this.
                    ''Jesus paid our ransom to free us from sin, death, and hell.''
                    ok, why do church people still die?

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Purification From Sin And Death!

                      Hi Lucy,
                      ok, why do church people still die?
                      They die, Lucy, because they have not been sprinkled by Messiah in order that they might be purified from sin and death.

                      The whole world died with Messiah Yahushua. When Messiah looks upon mankind (I am not speaking of the Immortals, John and others here), Messiah sees nothing but dead bodies, hanging from their crosses. These dead corpses must be buried before they begin to rot and become a stench in the Nostrils of the ELOHIM!

                      Christians go on to die because they do not believe that they are spiritually dead, and, therefore, they do not allow themselves to be taken down from their crosses and truly buried or immersed in the Word of ELOHIM. They hold on to sin in their walk and in their works, fully deceived into believing that they have already come alive in Messiah Yahushua, but when they physically die, they prove that their Messiah, in whom they claim life, was false, and that their ELOHIM was not Messiah Yahushua, the Mother of all the Living! In other words, Christians believe and hope in a false gospel!

                      Messiah Yahushua sprinkles and purifies HIS Friends from all sin and death so that they might live with and before HIM:
                      Isaiah 52:15
                      15 So shall he sprinkle many nations; the kings shall shut their mouths at him: for that which had not been told them shall they see; and that which they had not heard shall they consider.
                      This is exactly what happened to you and me, and I see that it has and is happening to others also, and we understand that it will happen to more and more as we learn to sprinkle the nations in the Name of Messiah Yahushua.

                      Sure, many scoff and snicker and laugh when they are told, but that is ok. Both Sarah and Abraham laughed when they first heard the Truth. Right now, many laugh at us, and many of these who laugh will go on to believe our report (I am thinking here especially of my former wife, and our family, and our friends and their families), and they themselves will become sprinklers of the Water of Purification, little sprinklers who pop up in the Garden of Messiah Yahushua to give HIS LIFE to the world.

                      Sincerely, Spying
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Spying View Post
                        Hi Lucy,They die, Lucy, because they have not been sprinkled by Messiah in order that they might be purified from sin and death.

                        The whole world died with Messiah Yahushua. When Messiah looks upon mankind (I am not speaking of the Immortals, John and others here), Messiah sees nothing but dead bodies, hanging from their crosses. These dead corpses must be buried before they begin to rot and become a stench in the Nostrils of the ELOHIM!

                        Christians go on to die because they do not believe that they are spiritually dead, and, therefore, they do not allow themselves to be taken down from their crosses and truly buried or immersed in the Word of ELOHIM. They hold on to sin in their walk and in their works, fully deceived into believing that they have already come alive in Messiah Yahushua, but when they physically die, they prove that their Messiah, in whom they claim life, was false, and that their ELOHIM was not Messiah Yahushua, the Mother of all the Living! In other words, Christians believe and hope in a false gospel!

                        Messiah Yahushua sprinkles and purifies HIS Friends from all sin and death so that they might live with and before HIM:This is exactly what happened to you and me, and I see that it has and is happening to others also, and we understand that it will happen to more and more as we learn to sprinkle the nations in the Name of Messiah Yahushua.

                        Sure, many scoff and snicker and laugh when they are told, but that is ok. Both Sarah and Abraham laughed when they first heard the Truth. Right now, many laugh at us, and many of these who laugh will go on to believe our report (I am thinking here especially of my former wife, and our family, and our friends and their families), and they themselves will become sprinklers of the Water of Purification, little sprinklers who pop up in the Garden of Messiah Yahushua to give HIS LIFE to the world.

                        Sincerely, Spying
                        yes Spying,
                        U have hit the nail upon the Head.

                        U know, when we read the bible we all have our favourite studies and people, how come, i can never find too many SERMONS on immortality?

                        Of all questions pew people ask on forums, basically are babyish and nerdy, like
                        do u believe in the trinity
                        do u speak in unknown tongues
                        do u think once saved always saved
                        do u believe in calvin
                        what denomination are you from.
                        etc..............so much babyish chatter....yet right there infront of their eyes is the divine record of ''''''' SEEK''''''''' IMMORTALITY.
                        [ Roms.2 v 7]
                        and put off mortal etc....as plain as the nose on our faces, staring at us,

                        yet

                        who sees this advice
                        - only those sons who have their eyes opened to the scriptures and no others shall ever see it for it is hidden in plain sight.

                        NEVER ONCE, have i heard/read of a pastor/pope/reverend, write and tell the pews to do this............yet..........here is this man ORR....... telling the world of their problems = How could people be blinded by the death is inevitable belief system for so long?
                        I find it amazing.
                        Now i am not sure if this man Orr, is ''new age'' and bypasses the bible here and tries to do this by self effort.
                        But i once read, from ''other books not in the bible'' of Adam and Eve, when they came out fom the Garden they did not know actually how to eat.
                        So diet could play a role in immortal life however i dont know of this yet.
                        why?
                        I am only a questioner and a seeker of truth and i dont have all the answers. My one great regret is i wished i had known of *the* LIFE from a younger age, maybe by now i would be more proficient than i am.

                        I am still learning to overcome my carnal flesh nature....slowly.... i wish I understood more ''how to hasten the day of His appearing in me'' and stop my dallying. [sigh]
                        however,
                        despite the draw-backs, there does seem to be some thought/evidence of immortal people and i cannot believe they would show themselves unless we had run the race and received the prize too.... perhaps it is unbelief stops their appearing.

                        However again,
                        i do think, they ''appear'' to other believing ''babes-in-immortality'' so to speak but not reveal who they are. Yes i do indeed. That is why, i am carefull if some ''stranger'' talks to me, unprompted.

                        Now Spying, we do also notice the re-action of others how they laugh and then mock such a revelation. After a while they ''turn nasty'' and turn away from us as if we had the plague. They run back into the darkness for IN themselves darkness dwells.
                        Darkness is the absence of light. - they have not had the revelation of *THE* life nor the seed of eternal life placed within them. They cannot understand till this has occurred.
                        Perhaps Father knows
                        People do not wish to come out from their comfort zone and die to sin, they do not wish to be changed, they are happy with who they are.

                        I was never happy who i am from a tender age....never once.
                        I always wanted to be changed from when i was little.
                        I said to God [ I called Him God, then ] ''how come i had to be a sinner, when i dont want to be one'' !
                        I said '' I want to be with You, i dont like it here very much'' .
                        Ofcourse i seemed to go thru the DARK AGES of organised church, yet, this too had a purpose for me to see the vanity of such a system. The good and the evil it produced but not THE LIFE.

                        now this fact really does annoy me, all that money and blabbing YET none receive *THE LIFE*. Just a waste of time.

                        Spyin,
                        I use a silly phrase i know.....
                        but it really explains it.....ok?

                        THERE IS SOMETHING MAGIC, ABOUT THE WORD OF GOD, WHEN WE OBEY IT...MAGIC HAPPENS.....Magic doesn't not come from fairies it comes from our obedience to HIS WORD. it is as if TRUE LIFE HAS BEEN PLACED INSIDE THESE WORDS AND WHEN WE OBEY THEM, WE LIVE IN TRUE LIFE TOO.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Spying, we are not 2 but i think few....lookee here

                          i have done some ''googles'' and now find another.
                          http://www.gospeldistribution.org/

                          while some things seem 'different'' to me i dont knock this man's revelation for basically it is the same LIFE NOW MESSAGE.

                          Yes, He uses SOME 'different' TERMS in explanation however the base is LIFE NOW!
                          "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and was not found because God has translated him." (Heb.11:5).

                          Faith for the rapture is very important. Concerning the rapture, what was revealed to Enoch which made him disappear without seeing death? The bible said Enoch walked with God. It is very important for us to note that God must have revealed to Enoch that "immortality can be obtained from God." We can see another example of that in Elijah the prophet. God must have told Elijah that "if you walk with me this way, and you are faithful in that ministry, you will not see death". Elijah must have received such infomation from the Lord because, at one point in time, (in 1 kgs.19:4), Elijah seemed to give up saying "it is enough, now , O Lord; take away my life for I'm not better than my fathers". He was saying in effect "all my fathers were dead; why should I have to keep going in this narrow road, just because of translative faith?" When things were getting tough around him, Jezebel was after him with a band of soldiers, he prefered to die. From that verse alone, we realize that God must have revealed to Elijah the plan to take him in translation without seeing death if he could stay true till the end in the narrow road he was to walk. Then, the faith for immortality, the faith that we can live by God's power and not die physically is the faith for the rapture! It is the same faith that made Elijah to be translated. But it's not just believing it. It's walking with God in that "realm of faith"! We have to walk with God in a narrow realm: almost like it was said -- walking up and down among the stones of fire.

                          It's almost like someone walking with God with the faith that "I'm going to believe in divine healing. I'm going to believe God for my healing everytime without visiting any doctor." That's like walking on edges, because the world is full of troubles and diseases. When the devil sees such faith in any man, you can imagine the attack from the enemy to challenge the man's walk with God! But he that understands the cause of the attack, and can hold unto God without backing off, till God pushes back the devil for him, will be a champion for God in the faith. Yet if you say you are not going to run to doctors when sickness or disease attacks, you need to be closely walking in the power of God. God says he will stand with you.

                          That is the faith for overcoming diseases and sicknesses. Similarly for overcoming death, someone can say: Christ has abolished death, and I believe that he will keep me alive till he comes if I walk with him, as he said "if I keep his saying". (Jn.8:51).

                          God had revealed to Enoch (and to Elijah) how to walk in his ministry for the translative faith. His part was to seriously keep himself to that narrow road.

                          If we walk with Christ with the same faith He will honour his word. "Verily Verily, I say unto you, if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death". (Jn.8:51). His word is yea, and Amen!


                          FAITH OF ENOCH
                          (From a sermon of Bro. Julius Adewumi, night vigil 6/24/95 )

                          "Faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen" (Heb.11:1)

                          I want to talk about the faith of Enoch. This is a teaching series on faith from Hebrew chapter 11.

                          "By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death, and he was not for God has translated him. And before his translation he has this testimony that he pleased God. And without faith it is impossible to please him"

                          The bible said Enoch was translated that he should not see death. I believe that is the highest level of faith (or rather highest reward for faith). We want to go and meet the Lord in the air! We want to go without seeing death! That has to be greater faith than just "praying for our bodies to be well", or praying for our needs to be met, or many other things we use faith for. This has to be greater because this seems like "impossible". You can say that even it is now possible because human beings already have space ships - space shuttle, which America has built and even the Russians have one. You get into it and they shoot you up into space by rockets. So you might say it's no more a big deal. Yet it's still a big deal because it's not going to be a metallic ship like those space shuttles, which still took billions of dollars to build one. This is going to be for individual who will go away . Jesus is building something for us that will take individual of us out of here in a blast of supernatural fire. It is going to be remarkable. It looks like impossible but it will happen. God has done it before. Now he is going to do it not just for one guy called Enoch but for a multitude of believers. Believing this in itself is faith. That is what we want to examine about Enoch.

                          Remember we have cases and examples we can refer to in the bible; and even in real life, people had gone into space and returned. It shouldn't be too strange for us to believe that Jesus will and can do this for believers. But in the old days like the days of Enoch, something remarkable about Enoch was that he was able to believe it when God revealed it to him that he can go away from here without physical death if he follow through in his faith. God said Enoch was translated that "he should not see death". I want to put emphazy on that phrase "he should not see death." That sounds almost like a reward of his faith, isn't it? Just meditate along with me in this sermon. That is, think about these things as we ponder upon individual man of God in this chapter eleven of Hebrews.

                          How did Enoch get this thing? What can I exercise my mind unto, which will help my walk with the Lord? The first point the Lord told me concerning the faith of Enoch is this:

                          Understanding:

                          1) God revealed it to Enoch that it is possible for man to get that immortality back from God. It's like any other sermon a preacher preaches before an audience such as "Jesus is the only saviour". You can be in a church among thousands of people when the message is preached. Every one of the people will believe it differently after hearing it. Like the parable of the sower: some seed fell on good ground, others fell on stony places. Even in the good ground, some still bring forth only thirty fold while some bring forth hundred fold and some, sixty.

                          In the first generation of men after Adam, they must have heard it preached or talked about or revealed somehow that Adam lost something, and that they can get the immortality back from God if they will come back to God. They were informed somehow that God didn't intend for Adam to die until the fall came to them.

                          "Because thou art dust, and unto dust shall thou return".

                          In Gen.4 it was recorded that when Seth began to have children, "then began men to call upon the name of the Lord". That is why I said they understood somehow that if they would come back to God, he is gracious and can give back that immortality, at least to individual that will please him. Men started to worship God. It must have been revealed to them by God because Abel also tried to do something differently to please God; And God said he accepted the offering of Abel, which caused Cain's jealousy.

                          There was a difference between Enoch and the rest of the people in his time. Enoch understood the message. The others may say "I hear you", which does not mean "I agree with you". Understanding the message is very important. The Lord himself said about the seed that fell on good ground: they understand. (Mat.13:23) "He that receiveth seed on the good ground is he that heareth the word and understandeth it, and bringeth forth some an hunred fold some sixty and some thirty." Even though they all understood they still will not bring forth the same measure of fruits. Remember that.

                          The Lord said to Peter when he revealed who the messiah was that, "Flesh and blood has not revealed this unto you but my father which is in heaven". "And upon this rock, I will build my church". Revelative understanding!

                          Enoch understood the message. Noah also understood and Noah was of the same generation. Noah might have been able to hear his grandfather, Methuselah, spoke about Enoch the great-grandfather of Noah. I am going to correllate this faith of Enoch to my message that "Christ has abolished death". I did not originate the message. The Lord simply made me to preach it as I have believed it. He has given me more revelation that help to give me better understanding of the truth. We are talking of "revelative understanding". It is not just understanding the grammar of the statement and deciding whether you will accept it or reject it. It is "revelative understanding" of the plan and purpose of God in the message. The word of God comes by revelation. However some people may understand the message that Christ has abolished death and that we can live till Christ comes and not go to the grave or that we can live and please God to the point that he will take an individual away like Enoch that he should not see death, even though the rapture is not here yet. But they may give excuses by saying: "well, I understand, but it is not easy, therefore it is not possible". It is the revelation of the word that will make another man say, "I understand it and there is a quickening of my spirit that made me to strongly believe that the Lord will give it to me if I try."


                          CONT

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                          • #14
                            Cont,part 2

                            Believing:

                            The second point about Enoch is that he believes it. Firstly, he understood the message by revelation: revelative understanding. Secondly he believed it! What about the others? Didn't they believe it? There are two things to consider when it comes to believing:

                            1) Is it true and can I attain to it?

                            2) Is the giver true and will he give it if I attain to it?

                            Let me give an example of what I mean: There is in America what is called "sweepstakes". The advertizers will say, if you buy this magazine or this product, your name will be included in a lottery drawing for you to win ten million dollars. It sounds too good to be true many times. This is different from the usual lottery. The first thought from many folks is that it is an advertizement gimmick. The first doubt in people is: can your name be drawn out of millions of people who will enter the sweepstakes? Many people who want to exercise faith do not have problem with this point. The second doubt is: are the sweepstakes organizers really faithful to give away ten million dollars? That is the biggest question!

                            Now correllating that to the faith of Enoch, some people may understand the message when Christ said "verily verily I say unto you, if a man keep man saying, he shall never see death". (Jn.8:51). They believe he was talking about physical death. But many may have problem with the first doubt. That is, they do not believe they can attain to it even if they try. Others believe they can attain to it if they try but they doubt God's faithfulness to that promise, as if to say even after they have tried so much, the Lord may find a flimpsy excuse to disqualify them and still let them die. However many others will rather say he did not mean physical death, and they spiritualize every bible doctrine.

                            Now Enoch believed the message but what about the rest of the people? Did they believe it? Did they believe it is possible to walk with God and overcome death? Some of them would say: "Ah, Adam died! God created Adam; he was the fresh handmade from God Himself. He was the direct creation, closest to perfection. If Adam could die, are you greater than Adam?" That will knock off a lot of people from even trying to believe that they could please God to the point of being granted immortality. They had already made up their mind that it is impossible.

                            The greeks in Athens manifested the same doubt when they heard apostle Paul preached, on Mars hill, about Christ's resurrection. (Acts.17:32). "And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked: and others said, We will hear thee again on this matter." Their Philosophers and scientists had already concluded and closed their books on the topic, that when a man dies he is not coming back. So they had made up their minds before Paul came.

                            The same thing the Jews told Jesus. When the Lord Jesus told the Jews: "Verily, verily I say unto you, if a man keep my saying, he shall never see death", the Jews replied: "Now we know that you have a devil, Abraham is dead and all the prophets; and you say if a man keep my saying he shall never taste of death; Art thou greater than our father Abraham, which is dead? and the prophets are dead: Whom makest thou thyself?" (Jn.8:51-52).

                            Concerning this message that Christ has abolished death, do you understand it? It is "revelative" understanding I am talking about. People have argued that "Peter died, Apostle Paul died and all the apostles, do you think this thing is possible?"

                            It is the same question. Do you believe it is possible? Enoch must have believed that it is possible. That is the key issue about faith. First, do you believe God can heal you? Do you believe your prayer can get hold of God to do it for you? That is, do you believe you can move close enough to God to get supernatural things done for you by God? If you say "yes, if I try, with His help I might be able to get close enough to the goal to get what I desire (as in immortality)". The next question is "do you believe God will give it?" A lot of people has problem with that. They do not know the will of God or they have been wrongly taught so that they can not believe God will do such thing for mankind. Therefore they never try. A lot of churches don't believe God will heal the sick, so they don't even try to pray and if they pray they do not pray right.

                            Enoch believed it! (1) He believed that it is possible. (2) He believed that he could get to the goal of overcomers if he tried. (3) He also believed that God will do it. These are the issues to consider about "believing".

                            Some people had the problem with the third point. They might have said "Yea, it is possible to attain to that goal; but no, it's God that is killing mankind." That is how they have been taught. They have learned that it was God who cursed mankind because of the sin of Adam. Many nowadays still think it is God that put diseases upon people. Such mindset will have problem believing that God will give out immortality to any man who tried to walk with God. But Enoch was able to believe that God will give it, because he had "revelative understanding" of the message. That is what I am pointing out to you. Pray for revelative understanding of the word of God!

                            After you have the understanding and you believe it, the next thing is to walk the walk. This principle applies to anything in life. If you really believe it, strong enough, you will pursue it and try to get it. You will not give up but will try and try again asking for help from whatever source you can get help.

                            Enoch walked with God and he was not for God took him. Enoch practised the walk with God. After you have believed, you must do it! You must pursue it. God usually gives a general word. To those who believe and decide to follow the word, He will reveal more to them. He must have showed to Enoch, and to Elijah, the narrow road they are to walk, that "if you get to the end of this road or go thus far, I will take you away without seeing death". It is now the doing of it you have to do. "Many are called but few are chosen!" A lot of people in this generation also will believe the rapture and every thing about the rapture, but they are not doing the deeds and are not walking the walk. That will separate the true hearers from the lukewarm. Enoch pleased God by practising and fulfilling his own side of the bargain. "Covenant of life" is what I called it! Remember Elijah tried to give up one time and prayed for himself to die. (1Kgs.19:4). But God will not break covenant. The angel woke him up and asked Elijah to eat and to keep on going.

                            Abraham had the similar covenant with God but not the same content. The revelation is different for each type of person. You must remember that! If you have a revelation, don't throw it away just because somebody respectable in the church does not have the same revelation. King David wrote that "I have more understanding than all my teachers" (Psa.119:99). God gives revelation to individual follower as he purposed in your life.

                            For instance people will think Elisha the prophet should also have gone in a chariot of fire if he received double portion of Elijah's anointing. But he died! God gives revelation as he foreordained. If He had foreordained us in this generation to know better and enjoy the greatest promise of God than the first apostles, so that we will go in the rapture like Enoch disappeared, who can argue with God? Didn't the Lord Jesus say that "the first shall be last and the last first?" (Mat.19:30).

                            Abraham received a promise that his seed will inherit the land of Canaan. He believed it. For believing it, it was counted to him as righteousness. God has revealed to mankind that immortality is possible by walking with God. (Jn.8:51, 2Tim.1:10). I believe it. Do you also believe it? What we need to do henceforth is to walk with God to the pleasing mark.

                            cont part 3
                            LET us be encouraged Spying....others KNOW 2 hurrah!!!!

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                            • #15
                              the end of this edifying message.

                              Obstacles:

                              While you are practising what you believe, there will be obstacles in the way. The fourth point about the faith of Enoch is that Enoch was not shaken by circumstances. Obstacles are the circumstances. He was not shaken by circumstances. One of the circumstances could be "mockers saying to his face that it's not possible". Mockers would ask him: "how do you think you can escape death when Adam died, your father died, your grand father died?" That didnot shake his faith. He had revelation. Revelation is what will make you to be able to say "No. Everybody may be dieing around me but the bible says, if I walk in this narrow road and keep his saying, He will take me in the rapture and I shall never see death." (Jn.8:51).

                              Circumstances may also be that great men whom Enoch respected doubted the message. But Enoch was not shaken by them.

                              I don't care who preached against it. One big prophet somewhere may say it is wrong to believe that way. God didn't reveal it to that prophet! When God has given you a revelation of the word, hold on to it. Your part is to walk the walk. "Let God be true and every man a liar."

                              Similar revelation was given to Elijah the prophet which I called covenant of life with God. God does not have to sign a paper with him. He simply throw the revelation of his word into your heart. If you believe it and say to him "Lord I'm going to do it and walk the walk to please you if you will help me", it becomes a covenant. God will say, "if he is walking the walk, I am going to wait and help him on the way to take him away in translation that he should not see death". That was what Elijah received from God.

                              Get the revelative understanding of the word. The Lord has given enough bible verses to make me understand that he wants to give immortality to mankind. The rapture is the manifestation of it to the band of believers who will attain to the goal of overcomers at this end time. "Christ only has immortality" and he has brought immortality to light through the gospel. (2Tim.1:10).

                              Yea, walk the walk which the prophets walk and please the Lord so that you can receive the immortality and go in the rapture. The rapture is not a lazy escape of death. Those who are caught up to the throne of God really overcame death and the dragon as it is written : And they overcame him by the blood of the lamb and by the word of their testimony;and they loved not their lives unto the death". (Rev.12:11). They knew Christ has abolished death!

                              I pray that your eyes of understanding be enlightened to be able to comprehend with the saints and to aspire to the goal of the overcomers, in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ. Amen.

                              Bro. Julius Adewumi, Gospel Distribution
                              <*]]]]><
                              lucy

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