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The nonredemptive redeemer

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  • replied
    Thanks Sandy, It comes from the heart.
    .....Michael

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  • replied
    Thummim, that is an awesome post.

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  • Thummim
    started a topic The nonredemptive redeemer

    The nonredemptive redeemer


    , Clearly it is christianities position that [ Yah is salvation (jesus) ] was rejected by his own people. A man pursued by thousands is hardly a rejected man. Isn’t (jesus) a man of crowds? Isn’t he a man that a multitude of his followers, try to make a king (twice)? [Jn.6:15;12:12,13]. John addresses this in his gospel (Jn.7:27), “Howbeit we know this man whence he is: but when Christ cometh, no man knoweth whence he is.” It’s clear that Isa.53 is in the mind of the author as he writes this verse. He is addressing Isaiah 53:3, {He is despised and rejected of men; a man of sorrows, and acquainted with grief: and we hid as it was our faces from him; he was despised and we esteemed him not.} The author is trying to cover one of his messiah’s most perplexing problems, that always being surrounded by crowds, it’s hard to show him as rejected. This is written very many years after the fact. This shows the authors mind asking himself, “will he be taken for a rejected servant?” Are these crowds that surround him, also rejecting him, because they don’t esteem him at all? Why are they there, if they don’t esteem him? Isa.53’s servant is identified as Israel (Isa.49:3; 44:21). But it is the authors own faith that is important here. He believes that it is the JEW’s who are to reject him. Yet, how than does (jesus) become their redeemer? Christianity believes that the spilt blood of their (rejected) servant is the redeeming power that brings redemption. He is their sacrificial lamb. Yet, to be accurate, it is his (1847,da-ath ), knowledge (Isa.53:11), that the servant uses to make the many righteous. He makes intercession for the transgressors through his knowledge. We then have an unrejected servant that doesn’t use his knowledge to make the transgressors righteous. There seems to be no argument for the righteousness of JEWs in the NT. The author of Isa.53:8, states, “for the transgression of MY PEOPLE was he stricken.” The iniquity of all the transgressors is laid upon him (as a burdon), {in the sense of Moses defending the people before YHWH, to keep him from destroying them}, and so to make them all righteous. He makes “all the people” righteous, not a select group of them. Christianity seems to have perverted the context of Isa. 53. Then too, which people are made righteous? The house of Yahudah doesn’t seem to benefit. Israel doesn’t seem to benefit. Christianity seems to have “kidnapped” the redemption of YHWH’s people! Now the gentiles have a time for redemption, and the JEWs have a time for redemption. Where does the time of the gentiles come from? There is no exclusion of YHWH’s people anywhere within the tanakh that I can find. Yet, the faith of Rome does not recognize the salvation of JEWs. Seeing what christianity has done to YHWH’s people, by defiling their name, doesn't it create a possibility that the messiah of christianity is bogus, and isn't a JEW redeeming messiah? Isaiah 53:2 says that the servant will not be desired. (there is no beauty that we should desire him), so how are the JEWs held guilty for not desiring him? Because they did not know the time of their visitation, is no reason for this servant to reject his people. (Lk.19:44) There is a servant who rejects his own people, spoken of by Zechariah, the prophet (Zech.11:17), “Woe to the idol shepherd that leaveth the flock!”. Is (jesus) that worthless shepherd? Christianity certainly makes him one. A foolish shepherd does not deliver his flock, instead he eats them as meat. This sounds like christianities redeemer to me. If christiany does not acknowledge the salvation of JEWs by their own messiah, what salvation can they themselves have? We will know when the messiah has come, because he will be a blessing to the house of Yahudah. It will be obvious that he has come. I mentioned the first problem of the messiah of christianity. He isn’t rejected (during his lifetime as is implied). His second problem, which is worse than the first, is that he doesn’t redeem his people, but rather becomes a curse to them through the ways of christianity. First christianity defines JEWs as the rejecters of (jesus), defiling the name of the JEWish people, it surrounds them on all sides, and then it passes judgement against them, crushing them in the form of it’s many persecutions of this people, who bear their Eloheems name. How much I want christianity to see the link that exists between the name of the house of Yahudah and the name of YHWH. I believe that with the knowledge of YHWH’s name will come the redemption of this people, from the wrath of christiany. Christianity is certainly the worst enemy that the JEWish people have ever had. The truth does have a chance in this world if others can learn it. It begins when (jesus) doesn’t return to gather his people and christianity must begin looking for the reason that they are still alone. I told my nephew about a story that had come to me. There was a long line of people stretching endlessly, it seemed. At the head of the line there was a little JEWish family asking that tickets for christianities salvation be given to them. They would beg the christians for their tickets, yet only the fewest of the christians would offer a ticket to this little family. Now where this family was standing, there were two doors. One had a sign above it saying, CHRISTIAN SALVATION. Above the other door it said JUSTICE. The little JEWish family pleaded with those in the line, begging for the tickets, that the christians held so dear. The christians kept replying, “you didn’t listen! you didn’t listen!”. They clutched their tickets tightly. When after a great while the line finally had gotten through their door, there were only left of the christians, a small number of people who esteemed this family. Those of the christians who had given up their tickets were resigned now to going through the door that lead to justice. They knew that the salvation that they had gained in their life, really belonged to the people of this little JEWish family. They blessed the little family, glad that they had done the righteous thing in giving up their places within the door that said christian salvation on it. Then, with stomachs in knots, they walked to the door of justice. The little JEWish family thanked these few christians who had concern for them and said “we were about to loose hope. We kept begging those in the line to give us their tickets, but only you would give your tickets to us. We are the ticket takers. If you had not given up your tickets to us, we would not have been able to give you a place in the name of YHWH, which is the tree of life and leads to the true salvation of our Eloheem. Welcome to the family of YHWH. You have proven your selves worthy. But of the others, they get the salvation that christians truly deserve. Shalom all, ….Michael
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