The Crucified Saviour

[don]

Re: Merchant Preachers!

Originally posted by Spying
Hi Don,

Happy Sabbath to you, Brother. I see no half truths or outright lies by Old Shepherd on this thread.

As for the link that you sent me to. I went there. I paged down the chapters until I got to the last one. I saw where I could give them my money to get their book. Now, what do we call that? We call that "merchant preachers", don't we?

There have been times that Old Shepherd has given me alot more than what I wanted at any particular time, but he has always given it to me freely. He has never asked me for money. If the merchant preachers don't want this thread locked up, then let them come here and defend themselves like you have done. That I respect.

Sincerely, Spying

Spying I would hardly call a book store a Merchant preacher


Commowealth Books
PO Box 11476
Salt Lake City, UT 84147-0476


Did you bother to read any of the information in the book that was FREE online???

[Sandy]

Hi Old Shepherd
Thank you for the interesting post. I am familiar with some of these, but not all.

I do not know about others here, but for me personally such things are disturbing. That is why earlier this year I started an Egroup called Are We Ostriches?

[Spying]

Salesmanship!

Hi Don,

Good day to you. You know, you may have me here. I really don't know the affiliation of Commonwealth Books so I really don't know if they are Merchant Preachers. If Commonwealth Books is not affiliated with an individual or an organization which is attempting to sell me on their view of things, then I am wrong, and you have increased your stature in my estimation by pointing out my error.

I look at it in this manner. I only have a certain amount of time each day. I hardly have time to read all the posts here at this forum and hardly time to reflect and respond in a proper fashion to the ones that I am required to respond to. Of course some posts and subjects take more time than others, and my problem with time has nothing to do with the amount of posting done here at this forum. I run out of time when I am talking to few or many. So, I won't follow links very far. My major concern first is identification. I mean, who is it that is telling me this? So, I will quickly make a determination like I did with Commonwealth Books rightly or wrongly.

I have spent an enormous amount of time spying in my life. What I have seen, I freely communicate to those interested in buying what I have to say. So, I also have something to sell, and I am a salesman just learning how to sell. What I have to sell will cost you your time and effort. So, if you want to buy or sell to or from me, then you need to go back to the article that you wanted me to read, and you need to read it, becoming familiar with the point of view and arguments, and then you can use your acquired knowledge to approach and correct and sell me. Basically, it is salesmanship. If you got a product, come here and sell it like you did to me with the Sacred Names. You know I will buy from you, that I will spend the time to understand what you are saying, but don't ever even begin to think that you can sell the truth to me for money.

Sincerely, Spying

[OldShepherd]

Misery Babbles On!

Don,

I really want to thank you for linking to this thread from Qumran Bet.

http://qumran.com/HoleyBoardDiscuss...43/000000e8.htm

I was reluctant to respond, on this forum, to posts at QB, which in a cowardly, back stabbing manner, misquote my posts here and attack me, while I do not have the privilege of responding. But since you have opened the door, now I can reply. Please feel free to notify the moderator over there, but too bad she will not be able to cover up and hide the truth by deleting all my posts here, as she does there.

Here the moderator linked to a website which, as Spying noted, is hawking a book "Mystery Babylon and the Lost Ten Tribes in the End Time" for the low, low price of only, $19.95 + 2.50 postage. This links directly to the book without going through the other forum.

http://www.taiga.com/~m_m/MBChapter5.htm

In response to an objection elsewhere, re: booksellers and merchant preachers. It is irrelevant. Either way the guy who wrote the book makes money. The book does not have an ISBN number and is only available from this one so-called bookstore. If it were a legitimate book, published by a legitimate publisher, it would have an ISBN number.

BTW, since it is not copyrighted, thus in the public domain, the entire book is available online.

The moderator at QB had this to say about "Misery Babbles On". Notice how she praises it as being "documented well".

"Thanks Nully. He has a very interesting viewpoint and has enlightened me about quite a few subjects. While this was not 'new' to me, Mr. Conder documented well."

http://qumran.com/HoleyBoardDiscussi...3/000000ea.htm

"Documentation" does not mean just posting a bunch of unsubstantiated, unproven, unverified, organic bovine excreta on the 'net or writing a so-called book filled with doggy doo. Documentation means,

Main Entry: Doc-u-men-ta-tion
Pronunciation: "da-kyu-men-ta-shun, -"men-
Function: noun
Date: 1884
1 : the act or an instance of furnishing or authenticating with documents
2 a : the provision of documents in substantiation; also : documentary evidence b (1) : the use of historical documents (2) : conformity to historical or objective facts (3) : the provision of footnotes, appendices, or addenda referring to or containing documentary evidence
http://www.m-w.com/home.htm

Here is a brief quote from the 5th chapter of this so-called "well documented" book. Of the four chapters shown none list or refer to any specific original sources, no footnotes or endnotes, no documentation whatsoever. Everyone who reads this is just supposed to accept and believe everything the author says. After all it is in a book, so it must be true. Yeah right, so were Goldilocks and the three bears.

"As to the ministry of Jesus, a very odd account precedes its beginning: his fast of forty days and forty nights. That one can go without food for forty days is possible, but going without water for that period of time would require a miracle!"

Note, the first lie! In this supposedly "well documented" book, even the scriptures are misquoted. Nowhere in scripture does it say that Jesus did not drink water during this fast. The only gospel account is Matt 4:2.

"And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights he was afterward an hungered."

"Even assuming that such a miracle occurred, how do we account for the fact that the story is almost identical to the fast of the mythological savior-Sun-gods? (Note, which so-called "savior-Sun-gods", what books, what original sources?) The rest of the story is that, in the midst of his tormenting hunger and thirst(Note, the second lie! The scripture says nothing about thirst!), Jesus was tempted by Satan himself, who offered him the world if he would worship him.

Because the story was so pagan in content, a number of early church fathers disputed it and did not want it repeated in the Gospels. (Note, which early church fathers? How many? Where? Koolaid anyone?)* * * Although the pagan content of the story has long since been forgotten by the Christian Church, it cannot erase the fact that the same account was known in other mythologies(Note, which other mythologies, here the author should have at least listed a few names. But he only names and quotes one!) long before the advent of Christianity. For example, there is the "sacred account" of Buddha, who, while fasting, was tempted by the Prince of Evil, Mara, who offered him the rulership of the world! Here is Buddha،'s reply: "Take heed, O Mara; . . . I know that the pursuit of religion is better than the empire of the world. You, thinking only of evil lust, would force me to leave all beings without guidance into your power. Avaunt! Get thou away from me!" (Note, any reasonable person would want to verify this. What and where are the alleged original sources supposedly quoted from? It is a pack of lies exactly like the quote about Quetzalcoatle, below).

"Quetzalcoatle, the virgin-born Mexican Saviour, was also tempted by the devil, and the forty day's fast was found among them."

See the Mexican historical site below. When I read Conder I knew immediately it was a lie, I had just posted the Quetzalcoatle article a short time before. No temptation by the devil, no forty day fast! Conder is spewing out puke and all the little idiots are lapping it up and telling everyone how good it is.

"Deciding on a ruse, Texcatlipoca crept into Quetzalcoatl's sanctuary with two minor gods, also evil, and frightened him by demonstrating a new invention: the mirror. . .They served him a delicious meal and Texcatlipoca persuaded Quetzalcoatl to drink a beverage of pulque mixed with honey. The concoction made him drunk and the conspirators then slipped a beautiful dancing girl into his room. He awoke the next morning with a hangover and the horrible realization that he had broken his priestly vow of chastity.

Tormented with remorse, Quetzalcoatl wandered in self-imposed exile for twenty years and then ended up near what is today the Gulf port of Coatzocoalcos. There he said goodbye to a loyal band of weeping disciples, promising to return at some future time. He sailed for Yucatan, where he became equally admired by the Maya, who called him Kulkulcan. Finally, some thirty years later, he died by immolating himself on a self-made funeral pyre."

http://www.mexconnect.com/mex_/hist...etzalcoatl.html

Throughout "Misery Babbles On", linked above, there is not one single identifiable "documents in substantiation", "use of historical documents", or "footnotes, appendices, or addenda referring to or containing documentary evidence." None, Nada, Zero, Zilch!

Although the moderator over there at that other forum linked to this regurgitated dog vomit and said it was "well documented." Earlier when someone quoted a well known living messianic rabbi, Avi Ben Mordecai, she criticized him saying that the TN'K should be our only source of truth.

"It gets to the place on these forums, where everyone has something to say and they go to so & so's book, to this reference book or that commentary, this Rabbi, that preacher.. thinking they may find a way from these to prove the other side wrong. Who is gaining here? Honest seeker's of truth search the Scriptures (TN'K), not just so they have a neat argument or someone will say 'boy, you got him with that answer' but in order to find truth.

I really wish that the people who are going to post here would get their act together and begin to seek truth not doctrine. Most of us have been indoctrinated enough already.

http://qumran.com/HoleyBoardDiscussi...3/00000027.htm

Quoting a book, a reference book, commentary, Rabbi, or preacher is wrong when someone else does it or it proves the wrong thing. And while Lew White's "Fuzzy Lies Conundrums" also has little or no "documents in substantiation", "use of historical documents", or "footnotes, appendices, or addenda referring to or containing documentary evidence", she would not permit someone to criticize the book, although, shortly before this, it had been perfectly acceptable for someone to use White to attack Christianity. Yeah boy, that's really "seeking truth!"

"This is totally ignorant.. Lew White is not part of this forum. He has never spoken to the posters on this forum. If you do not like his book.. by all means do not buy it or read it. But to post insults here, behind a man's back is an action forbidden by Torah."

http://qumran.com/HoleyBoardDiscussi...3/000000e7.htm

Any garbage books spreading lies about Christianity are welcomed and encouraged but any truthful legitimate criticism of those books is not allowed.

[don]

SIRS

If you are trying to suggest the Qumran Bet in anyway is by posting a link to this book is doing it for $$$$$$$$$$$$,then you both are bold faced liar's.

And jesuit don't thank me for anything!

I don't like you!

And if your going to cry about being kick out of qumran Bet at least tell the truth as to the reasons WHY!

[Spying]

Using The Spirit!

Hi Don,

I am not suggesting anything at all about Qumran. My post to you was about salesmanship. It was about our relationship. I wanted you to know that I would not buy the truth you were attempting to sell me through following links. Our relationship is one on one. I'm here; you're here. So, let's talk. Why run here or there pursuing links which cannot be verified or vouched for? I may be in the dueling business, but I am not going to duel with you through links. This forces each individual to take responsibility for what they bring to this table. If you bring myth, I am sure it will be exposed as myth. If you bring the truth, in time it will be exposed as the truth. If someone's truth is over time shown to actually be myth, should we be happy or sad? It depends if I am on your side or not, doesn't it? I have a belief that we are all on the same side, it is just that we have not been made aware of it yet.

So, how should we deal with each other? I think that we should fight like cats and dogs to determine what it true and expose what it false. Name calling does not expose anything save for our own weakness of argument. Complaining does not expose anything save for our lack of maturity. Use the spirit, Don. Read my posts. Reflect on them. Ask the Father to help you understand what I am saying through His spirit. Ask him to give you an answer through the same spirit. You may be pleasantly surprised what will happen. Use the spirit.

I fully expected you to reply to me by using the following scripture which states:

Prov 23:23
23 Buy the truth, and sell it not; also wisdom, and instruction, and understanding.(KJV)

In your best Southern drawl, I fully expected to hear you say,

Hell's bells, Spying, what in all the world is this business of selling the truth? Ain't that the berries? You go get yourself a forum, you get big headed enough so now you all think that we can go sell the truth contrary to the word of ELOHIM. Not me, Brother!

If you were using the spirit, you would have done that to me, and I would have immediately been put on the defensive through one scripture and very few words. You have very few words, and I like that. So, why not make use of your knowledge of the scriptures?

Did you see Simpleman's post to Stranger. It is a perfect example of what I just related to you. Simpleman used the spirit in making reply, and Stranger was put in a hard place, was he not? Go and do likewise!

Sincerely, Spying

[OldShepherd]

Don,

"If you are trying to suggest the Qumran Bet in anyway is by posting a link to this book is doing it for $$$$$$$$$$$$,then you both are bold faced liar's.
And jesuit don't thank me for anything!
I don't like you!
And if your going to cry about being kick out of qumran Bet at least tell the truth as to the reasons WHY!"

I say what I mean and mean what I say. I don't leave it for someone to read between the lines. You evidently do not read nor understand the English language. Here is what I said about money.

In response to an objection elsewhere, re: booksellers and merchant preachers. It is irrelevant. Either way the guy who wrote the book makes money.

You got that Don? The guy who wrote the book makes money! If you are still having a problem seeing it, get a magnifying glass.

Slick, if you think you know anything about me and QB then you post all your proof right here. Everything you think I said or didn't say, post the links right here. And oh BTW make sure you have all the private emails between me and Sis. You don't know half what you think you do.

My objection was and is that anal retentive cowards are misquoting my posts here, over at QB by name and any response I make is immediately deleted. So it's acceptable to trash people who are not posting at QB but it is not alright to point out all the lies and dog puke in White's book, Fuzzy Lies.

[don]

SPYING i STAND CORRECTED!

tHANKS!