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**LucySmith** · 05-12-2006, 02:05 AM

not to be taken seriously not 'doctrine' sheez.... just thinking

and asking hard questions

these ''sons of God ''are mentioned in Job 38 = sons who were there are creation. So some of these spiritual male sons, ''saw'' the human earth fair ladies and came down and married them, had a child, but we are told these offspring were giants.
called ''men of renown'' {Gen 6]

but
these ''sons'' did not enter into human mens bodies to conceive these children, these giant children that were born were a hybrid 1/2 spirit 1/2 human. The giants of Genesis 6:4 and Numbers 13:33 are called "the Nephilum''
consider IF these male spirit jumped into human-men's bodies and used them, the children would never have been hydrid.

now,
The male spirit-sons saw the human-daughters were fair, so, they had a visible sexual adventure with these lovely ladies that produced children that were ''different''.
and
it was considered as wicked. v 5 and needed to be destroyed.
so
how did these 'sons of God' have all the necessary equipment [sperm] to impregnate , IF they were a neuter gender? like a sexless gender.?

where did this child-bearing sperm come from? They must have been fully functional male spirits.

while i dont wish to be x rated here.

If spiritual 'male' creation [gen 1 v 26] have sperm... what is going ON?????
was it is spiritual sperm.?Why did they need it? if there is NO marriages in heaven?
again
why did they need this reproductive sperm when we are told, no marriage in heaven,....yet Jesus Christ is a male, a man-god [ ps 82 v 6]....in a glorified body =
that same style of male body that was to reproduce a family here in the garden of Eden prior to the hick-up

I think this is fasinating here, and NOT x rated

also i dont believe ''angels'' are ''the sons of god''. [SONS are an image of.]
Angels are another creation a separate one. IMO. IF an angel changed into a human form of man, that ''seed'' could not reproduce a giant as it would be still human.

how would we ever find out?

we just have to ask the RIGHT QUESTIONS..

because what we have been told and what we perceive aint necessarily so.

actually no-one can give an honest explanation who are the ''sons of god''.... there are 3 opinions each different
ie.. A quick google-search will have the ''parrots'' talking, very seldom do I dont believe 'parrots' to me it is like a record with the needle stuck in the one groove. ITS IRRITATING.-same old same old.
WHY DONT WE KNOW?
sons of God- Gen 6
sons of God- Job 38
sons of God -roms 8
sons - male
i have found out,
THAT if THERE seems to be contradictions, something needs to be INVESTIGATED,
for what it says by
''a contradiction''
is
'' look at me and find out''
or
what's up... in....... GOD SPEAK.

**Spying** · 05-12-2006, 06:22 AM

A Court For This Question?

Hi Lucy Smith,

This name Beth is IN my family

Sonya Beth
Sophia Beth
Beth.
.... so am am interested to see your aspect from this ok

Good Sabbath Eve to you and yours. I transferred the above quote from the Leaders Lead Thread to this thread in order to help begin the process of making a judgment on your Idea Only Thread.

Beth Din is the Hebrew phrase for House of Judgment. Beth means "house". Jewish law allows the establishment of a Beth Din for a congregation of 10 men. Three men are required for a Beth Din. Of course, I am putting aside that requirement when I contemplate you, my Lady, as a judge. To me you are a judge.

Messiah established a Beth Din with Peter, James, and John when HE asked them to accompany HIM and view HIS Transfiguration (All three, ELIYAH, That Prophet like unto Moses, and The Messiah are all embodied within Yahushua). The number of Messiah's disciples were sufficient to form a congregation. Accordingly, HIS Band of Brothers comprised a roving synagogue.

There existed 120 disciples within this Band of Brothers and Sisters after the resurrection of Messiah. This number is required by Jewish Law to establish a Small Sanhedrin.

The meeting of the Apostles and Elders in Acts 15 was the convoking of the Great Spiritual Sanhedrin. This is the highest Jewish Court. In the physical, this Court is established in Jerusalem. This Court consists of 70 judges plus one additional judge who is the leader or chief judge of this Court. This leader is called the Nasi. Messiah is the Nasi! This Acts 15 Sanhedrin is a spiritual court established by Messiah. This court is not the official Sanhedrin of Judaism which also existed at the same time in Jerusalem (Acts 22:30).

The official Sanhedrin at Jerusalem also had a Beth Din. This Beth Din was call the Ab Beth Din! I changed my pseudonym from Spying to Ab with the hope that Messiah would establish the next spiritual Ab Beth Din though Lo Ammi. Ab of course means Father. So Ab Beth Din means Father of the House of Judgment. The Vice President of the Sanhedrin served as this Ab on the Ab Beth Din. He was the second in command in service in the Sanhedrin. He served right under Messiah, the Nasi. James in Acts 15 seems to serve in this capacity.

I have not adopted the pseudonym Ab in any manner claiming to be the Ab of the next spiritual Sanhedrin and Ab Beth Din. I used this designation only to point out that these positions are open in our time to be filled as Messiah desires. My hope is that Messiah will allow me to sit as a judge on the next spiritual Sanhedrin. I would love to also be a part of the next spiritual Ab Beth Din.

Sophia of course means wisdom! Sonja perhaps means the same. I went to this site:

Looking for your Purpose in Life, the Meaning of a Name, Meaning of Baby Names, or how to Make a Name Change?

http://www.kabalarians.com/index.cfm

If you are searching for your purpose in life, looking into the meaning of baby names, wanting to make a name change, or just interested in name meaning, we can help you choose a powerful and successful Balanced Name. 800,000+ name database.

to gain some insight on the mystical side of those names. I am not endorsing this site. Don't give the site any money. Just use it freely. This site gives 1st names freely, then it wants money for last names. Just put every name in as a first name and see what they have to say!

Sophia Beth means Wisdom of House. Beth Sophia would be House of Wisdom!

To be cont. ELOHIM willing.

Sincerely, Ab

**LucySmith** · 05-12-2006, 04:00 PM

EXCELLENT Spying Ab

i am ENLIGHTENED, once again from your posts. Thank you

Your Ab is the same initals as my father.

Ab Beth Din.

Spying when i saw those words, i felt it looked like a whole new lnaguage opening up before my eyes.
In that movie lord of the Rings, they spoke ''elfin'' an immortal language, ''Ab Beth Din'' for some reason i felt these words were immortal too.
............................................
well to judge this thread.
i surrender it up for judgement...i have not got the dots connected at all.
but
once again, when something seems to be a contradiction we are to look into it ................for inside of it is a mystery to understand.
When we understand- it makes the path easier 'with the knowing'.
so to continue.
I was considering beginning at Job, the oldest book - no-one knows the author~!
Here we have Job 38 mentioning '' the sons of God'' v 7
notice ONE FACT
this was happening during Genesis...
Notice in the word Genesis we get the word GENE.....the genetics = hereditary character resulting from union.

we are taking about ''UNIONS HERE'', UNIONS OF GENES.
and that is reproductions all happening
again notice , these are spiritual beings called SONS - male
sons~!
are always male -
a type a species termed male,
that thinks and acts as male
a group of males thinking male thoughts doing male things.

Jesus Christ is MALE = same type = He is called '' The Son of God'' singular
He was there ~! FROM THE BEGINNING.
SON of God IS HIS TITLE~!
but now
A GOD-MAN or GOD IN A MAN MADE visible.
a spiritual being ''a god'' inside a male man
consider this

Jesus was in NO WAY female.
NONE OF HIM is female. CAN WE AGREE ON THIS?

also
the morning stars are mentioned, JOB 38 V 7 who sang together..
only something ''intelligent will sing''
stars dont sing.
so we have stars singing and sons shouting.
'stars' are the daughters [ the females to match with the sons]
If we divert a little here we find the planet Venus called '' the morning star and the evening star'' but also VENUS IS A GODDESS OF LOVE. ummm...[notice this word goddess? all myth so they say]
love is blooming...
IT IS A FAMILY of SONS AND DAUGTHERS - SPIRITUAL MALE AND FEMALE singing and shouting
[ see gen 1 v 26]
now I think it fair to say that in the real realm lives sons and daughters,
or
males and females, who have the same reproductive powers as humans.
otherwise why BE a male or a female.. why not neuter genders,
one male + one female = put together = PRODUCE.
there is absolutely no doubts about this at all.
these 'wicked' sons, who left their 1st estate [ original postion- as they lined jumped] could not have produced sperm to impregnate the human lovely -human-ladies if they were neuters.
NOR
would their children be consider freaky if they were just ordinary men being overtaken by a spirit of wickedness.
also consider
the OFFSPRING OF SUCH MATING were giants, men of renown - wickedness so bad it needed a flood to washing them away.

it was mentioned that these sons LUSTED after the human female.
why do spiritual male sons LUST? we may well ask.
could it be,
that some sons, when they saw this new sight of ''a female form'' made visible was so delicious to them, they ''sinned'' to experience this taste for new flesh female????? ummmm The ladies of this world know some males shall go to NO lengths to win over their heart's desires.... what is natural is spiritual we are told... UMMMMM again
and on another tact... why did this ''lusting'' happen in the spiritual realm. The idea popping into a male son spiritual mind had to begin in 'heaven'?
perhaps that is another area to follow thru?
is lusty sin in heaven too....perhaps i am opening a pandora's box here.[oh dear~!~!~!]
but to cont.
the sperm from the male spiritual son, mixed with the female human produced a '''BEING''' CONTRARY to WHAT ABBA WISHED. - it was a hybrid
IT WAS A MIXED SPECIES.
A FREAK.
therefore IF WE go back and RE-PLAY this drama, the spiritual male being must have been able to sire, children when in their ''correct estate'' that were normal..otherwise no word like ''lusted'' would ever be mentioned.
ummm.
I THINK WE HAVE ADVANCED.

I AM NOT SURE WHERE TO...

**LucySmith** · 05-13-2006, 02:14 AM

cont. just thinking/ dont believe till proven otherwise

when these sons saw the fair human flesh ladies, they ''came out from'' their higher realm. They descended.
so
if we think about this, they could not be still invisible,[otherwise the ladies would not have seen them] but turned visible to look like other men....they must have ''lost their body of light''.and if they did this, perhaps there was NO way for them to return back TO LIGHT especially having lost,
''their 1st estate.''
Therefore they would be ''trapped here''..... could they be an ''immortal'' trapped but then chained up meaning = restricted somehow from further action and waiting for judgment on their case ?
These spiritual sons/but men now.... would have had to be alot larger than the ordinary human male for they sired GIANTS... and men of renown [wisdom and greatness] perhaps it was the ''petite-ness of these ladies some found so hard to resist.... infact when we see a very tall man quiet often we see a small lady at his side.umm.
again let us consider this...
If these sons had conceived their ideas in the realm of heaven.... it would appear corruption can be there too...
so ask?
is heaven a condition or a created place?
IF the kingdom of heaven is within us, heaven then is a condition not a place.
notice also
there are 2 kingdoms mentioned in the bible
1] is the kingdom of heaven - a condition not a place
2] is the Kingdom of God - perhaps a place and not a condition??????

so.. we have an incomplete scenero here....
and no way of really proving any of what is written...
perhaps a useless exercise

ummm
but cont...
the sons of God [roms 8] v 19 etc.
creation ....
what creation...
is it all of God's creation every last bit of it..
or
simply earthy creation that were all subjected to VANITY, not willingly..
notice this NOT WILLINGLY.... NONE OF CREATION SAID '' I WILLINGLY SUBJECT MYSELF TO VANITY... not one part of creation did this~!~!~!~!

so a HIGHER BEING, subjected creation [a part or all] TO VANITY
VANITY - WORD MEANING - emptiness, worthlessness,vain and futile,idle,
sentence could read.

''The CREATOR of all things SUBJECTED creation who was not willing to be idle, empty and worthless. BUT was subjected to it anyways''

SO..this whole UNhappy SCENE, that is lowered into a vain condition NOT willingly... is waiting.
what for
THE MANIFESTATION of the SONS OF GOD.v 19
well... WHAT A PICKLE.. here are the guys again....
the creature has to be DELIVERED from the bondage of corruption.
so
into the glorious LIBERTY.
IF the sons of God, conceived lusts in the heavenly spiritual realm and then came down by disobedience into a lower realm and corrupted here... to me IMHO this would mean, that somehow corruption was ALL OVER... not just subjected to earthy conditions..... and somehow the sons of God from earthy conditions have to learn how to manifest to release groaning corruptions - all of it...
therefore we have to look at THE SON OF GOD.. Messiah.

UNLESS THE SONS OF GOD [roms 8] ARE EXACTLY LIKE '''THE''' SON OF GOD [Messiah] NO WAY IS ANY futile VAINITY EVER GOING TO BE REMOVED nor RELEASED from anywhere

NOW

can we understand HOW IMPORTANT THIS MISSION IS and for those called out into this mission field to serve correctly so it shall all be A SUCCESS.

can this be truth or just a fancy make believe??????????????

ummmm.
in oz time it is 6-15pm SAT evening just at twilight and the beginning of a new day on Abba time clock...
where y'all are it is 12-14am...
bible no 12 - the governmental order of God
bible no 14 - deliveraNce and double perfection...

A SENTENCE..
'' i find it so amazing that at twilight on the sabbath
a ''concept'' could be posted perhaps to consider a time yet to come of governmental order and double perfection.''

**Spying** · 05-13-2006, 06:03 AM

You Need Not Surrender Just Yet!

Hi Lucy Smith,

well to judge this thread.
i surrender it up for judgement...i have not got the dots connected at all.

Yes, of this I am certain: Our knowledge is imperfect. So, each of us all the time have incorrect thinking!

When I speak of judging here, it is more on the lines of Acts 15. Let's really explore here should Messiah bless this discussion, and work on the idea of beginnings and purpose and motivation with the ultimate goal that we all say the same thing about our beginnings at the end of this discussion. Let's work to connect the dots. If we follow the pattern of Acts 15, it will take a whole lot of debate and argument and appeals to experience. Ultimately, agreements and decisions must not contradict the totality of the written Word of ELOHIM. The spoken Word of ELOHIM is spirit that is heard. The written Word is spirit that is seen. The written Word contains an exact description of what we are to become through Messiah. This is in accordance with this our mutual desire:

an everlasting visibility...where they would experience a new living way, like discovering a new land and opening this new land up to make it hospitable.

What a noble desire and perfect expression! I don't think that it can be said better! A new creation is our goal and inheritance!

When I read what you have written, I find many areas of disagreement, and that is ok. What impresses me is the things that you think about and explore.

A Beth Din needs three because two rarely can come to agreement. If we can come to agreement without a visible third party, then Messiah has consented to serve with us. That would be wonderful, a perfect Ab Beth Din.

So a Beth Din can either be two or three as Messiah indicates (Matthew 18:18-20). It is possible that we shall struggle with these issues until an Immortal appears to serve with us. That would be wonderful also!

Can a woman serve on a Beth Din? Many would say "nay" here. I do not! Anyways, it is the decision of Messiah concerning who should serve. I am going to proceed as if Messiah has made a positive decision concerning the both of us.

Sincerely, Ab

**LucySmith** · 05-13-2006, 03:37 PM

hey Ab..don't worry i even disagree with myself over it

you are not alone on this

but,
what is even more unexplanable is, this is my busiest week -Mothers day and even the TV were here,taking movies of my flowers for free dont u think that is an ABBA'S abundant life blessing to me? I do~! and YET here i am thinking about these '' sons of God''.
also...
the whole of my shop's backyard has been simply TRANSFORMED into a sea of colour, like a rainbow of flowers, it is MAGNIFICIENT.
People gape when they come in and say ''oh that is so beautifull''.
The whole street is a sea of cars and people and LIFE IS HERE...movements are here and love of beauty is here...so.. why am i thinking about these sons?
I have them on my mind and feel like some fool even posting this whole thread,
yet
here i am doing this and here u are Spying too being so kindly towards me and so patient, that i have to say Spying Ab ur a fellowship gift to me, AND you dont say ''oh poo Lucy that's darn stupid'', so I do thank you for your lovely heart and your consideration to me.
We may discover yet, by sweeping away traditions and wrong neglected thinking ABOUT OUR ROOTS AND OUR NEW LIFE AND HOW TO BE PERFECTED.
Shall Abba supply His revelations as HE supplied free TV advertising of my flowers to me on the TV that went state wide? umm.

--------------------------------------

Spying post

When I read what you have written, I find many areas of disagreement, and that is ok. What impresses me is the things that you think about and explore.

i can disagree too with myself there are many holes for sure.
well Spying
i am a creative person, i love watching things, exploring things to see how things work. When i was about 15yrs old I looked up into the sky and I saw a big fluffy white cloud and i said this ''Father Abba, do u think we could sit together on the edge of a white cloud and swing our legs over the side and chat about everything YOU can think of to tell me, I will listen and I would love that best of all''
And sometimes looking back i FEEL HE DOES CHAT to me on white clouds.

I just have to learn to hear right!

spying post

A Beth Din needs three because two rarely can come to agreement. If we can come to agreement without a visible third party, then Messiah has consented to serve with us.

Then it is UP to me to agree with you,
why?
you're the male
[the lean mean fighin' machine in the spiritual, soon in the natural

]
and when i submit to your knowledge it will work, for then we shall be in one accord.
Most people do not know how very powerfull one accord is... it can blast this universe apart and change the world.
The world does not need my opinions but it needs the power of liberty that can flow thru me by Messiah's Lordship over me.
and
what is also a blessing is when a male and female work together = THEY REPRODUCE kingdom life.
When male and male work together it does not work THE LAW IS MALE AND FEMALE - REPRODUCE. amen

Spying post

It is possible that we shall struggle with these issues until an Immortal appears to serve with us. That would be wonderful also!

Imagine thinking this...
for i was too.
CLICK
Infact i was thinking that maybe they even view Lo-ammi to see how we are progressing? why would i think this Spying? and why are u saying simular stuffs? ummmm

Can a woman serve on a Beth Din? Many would say "nay" here. I do not!

why would Abba place in my life, HIS LIFE AND INTERESTS?
I am a woman a wife, mother and a worker. what use am I?
why would ABBA, call on a little girl of 5yrs old and begin to talk to them and show them His love and how to do stuff?
what was the point?
why would Abba proceed to give this woman a zeal for HIM that seems unstopable at this time?
what is the purpose if i have to stand in a corner with duck tap on my mouth.
why?
because the point of womanhood has been misunderstood,
There is an ancient deception about deception......... for look around we shall see most religious church-men are just as stupidly deceived as their women.
It was mere Men who invented and made up a deceived church... AND IF some ancient WOMAN HAD, A BIT OF SPUNK, SHE SHOULD HAVE SAID ''SHUT UP clown AND GET BACK TO THE BIBLE as per instructed '' to her paganised husband.
Men are well able to deceive and be deceived
it is not just ''the little foolish woman, standing duck-taped at the kitchen sink barefooted and pregnant''.
What of Messiah did He have a ''woman problem'' I THINK NOT~!~!
Hip hip hurrah for the girls,
so let us consider
in the very first scene of Messiah in His resurrection morn, a woman is waiting and He appears and tells her to go and tell the 11.
now
JESUS Messiah NEVER SAID ''
OH MY GOD YOURE A WOMAN, so
I CANNOT TELL YOU THE GREATEST NEWS OF THE UNIVERSE
I SHALL HAVE TO WAIT FOR A MAN TO COME BY AND TELL HIM TELL that he has to run and tell the 11 men''
IF MESSIAH told a woman to tell the world...
why have i a duck taped up mouth?
i HAVE BEEN TRAINED UP TO '''KNOW MY PLACE'' it is submitted BUT comitted to reproduce LIVING LIFE.
why?
because it takes a male and a female to reproduce this alive LIFE.
if u only have one sex you will never have life, let us look and observe... what life has ''church'' produced for nigh on 2000yrs...
a homosexual spiritual life of male to male and death rules its portals.
The female who are a part of the chain-of-freedom fighters were gagged ... so alive-life got gagged and the result is all die in their graves never understanding that a gagged woman produces death.
THE HELPMEET was murdered BY ignorance and misunderstanding of the flesh of men.
so now that i am off my soap box on the ''woman issue''

plx Cont Ab u have my UNDIVIDED APPLAUSE AND ATTENTION...
PS
Spying
I have good news....
look at the time i posted
HE IS HERE.....
HE LEFT HIS CALLING CARD.. AMEN AMEN AMEN
no 37 - the royal number of KING JESUS CHRIST no 37.....hip hurrah... NOW over to you.
spying He will never leave us nor forsake us WE ARE HIS...
now a PPS
i am back to say other TV crew is here like a DOUBLE BLESSING.. freely given... OH i am fainting and what is more... my staff member in birthing out her baby today.. OH IT tis LIFE EVERYWHERE..
how can i say thank you ABBA FATHER....by obedience.
my flower shop is blooming life. amen
my staff is booming life amen and Spying is my friend HOW GOOD IS THAT~!
and i am so happy i feel faint..

PPSS
its now 3pm approx and my back yards is almost sold out. I cannot boast no way
but
I do boast in the real living caring power of Messiah MY King. HE is my shepherd....and He proves it over and over again in a chain of miracles....
also
Happy mum's day to my USA friends.. amen

**Spying** · 05-14-2006, 09:51 AM

Male And Female?

Hi Lucy Smith,

Earth is a visible land of a spiritual land/realm.

Absolutely! The whole physical Universe is a shadow, picture, or image, a visible representation of an invisible realm, of the spiritual Universe. The physical is a reflection of the spiritual.

Before the Rebellion, the ELOHIM inhabited the whole physical Universe in the same manner in which we inhabit our physical bodies of flesh. They had perfect control over the physical Universe. The physical Universe was the most beautiful habitation or BODY, kinda like your flower shop right now

, until the rebellion occurred which destroyed the unity of ELOHIM. Once the unity was lost, perfect control was lost, and the Universe was subjected to decay (Romans 8:19-22) with the firm hope of an eventual restoration (Acts 3:19-21).

Mankind is the vehicle or means whereby all spirit is again unified in one BODY (the Universe). This unification of spirit was accomplished by Messiah Yahushua. So man and specifically Messiah Yahushua is a helpmeet and womb for the ELOHIM to restore THEIR BODY (all physical Creation) to THEM!

Why did the rebellion occur? I have a sense the rebellion occurred because the ELOHIM were committed to seeking a remake or renewal of THEMSELVES. (THEY were indeed thinking of something new!) These things are hard to describe, and I don't really know how here, I mean how could the ELOHIM improve on perfection in a renewal? Even so, perfection would have been improved if the rebellion had not occurred.

The exact cause of the rebellion, I feel, was the role that each of us would adopt or acquire in the NEW ELOHIM! It is exactly right here that the humans roles of male and female enter.

A living Man is an image or picture of the spiritual being which existed before the rebellion. A dead man is a picture of the Universe which existed after the rebellion. The decaying body of a dead man is a picture of the Universe subjected to corruption until Messiah completed HIS saving and restorative work, the Resurrection.

The creation of Adam in a sense was a burial or planting of the spirit of the ELOHIM in the ground. ELOHIM buried THEIR spirit in Adam or emptied THEIR spirit potentially into Adam at his creation so that each of us might learn something about the renewal process. Our existence is indeed a training ground in which we learn the difference between good and evil, and some of us are blessed to learn how to overcome evil!

So, man was created male and female. Man is a physical image of ELOHIM so both natures are found unified in the ELOHIM as you are fully aware. However, our physical male and female natures are only a physical shadow of spiritual maleness and spiritual femaleness. I have a sense that the ELOHIM are neither male nor female (Galatians 4:28), and neither do they give themselves in marriage (Matthew 22:30).

So, what is the purpose of male and female? Do both exist in a spiritual sense, and what exactly do each of us represent in the spiritual?

Sincerely, Ab

P.S. I am so happy that your backyard is all sold. Now, you have the pleasure of recreating it in whatever image you desire.

Please convey my kind regards to your staff member over the birth of her baby.

**LucySmith** · 05-14-2006, 03:20 PM

Thank You~!

the baby girl REA was born.
and i shall do as u asked Ab.
the day was a huge success and it is all because i have no control as I leave this all in the care of another .. The MESSIAH... i do this with my whole life now. He is the master gardener amen

and i always thank Him for His blessing and great MERCY upon me.
--------
cont.
YES i agree Spying with your summary....
seems there was a big hick -up.
IF this world is but a shadow of the real realm, let us
look around and see the ''nature of things without sin''
each person has a different personality, a creating work and ability....
i.e.
like last night i was watching a British Chef create fish dishes and he was so passionate about this fish cooking meaning he threw his heart and soul into explaining how to cook fish....and i thought ''wowoow u sure are excited over fish thats for sure'' and i could not care less.

but, then he could say ''that lucy sure is passionate about her flowers, i couldn't care less'' - so that each person has their own gift ability within even if it is not realised.
SO in essence there is this HUGE VAST ARENA where creative ability abounds.
so, in this giant hick-up.... did we play a role in this rebellion?
Were we a contributing factor? thats an aweful thought to me.
Spying Post

Why did the rebellion occur? I have a sense the rebellion occurred because the ELOHIM were committed to seeking a remake or renewal of THEMSELVES.

lucy says
yes Ab
we all like something new, as ''same old'' gets boring hey?
so i agree here.
Somehow the Elohims were to create something new and war broke out over this decission. Maybe regarding ranks and rulership, for at the end of the day Messiah speaks alot about OVERCOMING AND REWARDS......
CLUE CLUE CLUE...
overcoming decay overcoming ''sin'' overcoming our rebel mind -to think as HE THINKS...ummmm meaning have NO other mind on anything BUT HIS MIND ONLY
THIS POWER OF OVERCOMING has
prizes..
rewards..
each one is a reward and HAS GREAT AUTHORITY ATTATCHED TO IT.
Therefore consider this Plz....there was a war over ''authority'' of who would rule and reign in the visible new world...or.... the whole new visible universe that was being considered..... and.... there was to be NO OTHER MIND on these rulerships but the MIND OF MESSIAH WHO IS THE POWER OF GOD.
HE would choose... NOT.. the others.
THAT IS WHY, we are to PUT ON THIS MIND now...
OHHHHH... thats so important for us Ab, to have this mind = not to war with Abba and Co.
we have to have a changed mind.
a mind that is not independant but in FULL UNION WITH....
the mind called CHRIST. = the CHRIST mind.
I feel this is a VITAL clue and our one aim to PUT ON THE MIND OF CHRIST.... and JESUS CHRIST ONLY EVER DID THE WILL THE WILL THE WILL THE WILL OF THE FATHER.. it was a battle of wills.
let us read about the rewards in Revelation 2/3 Chapts... there are 7 sets of authority to be given out.
Spying post

A living Man is an image or picture of the spiritual being which existed before the rebellion. A dead man is a picture of the Universe which existed after the rebellion. The decaying body of a dead man is a picture of the Universe subjected to corruption until Messiah completed HIS saving and restorative work, the Resurrection.

Lucy says
yes I like that,

Spying post

The creation of Adam in a sense was a burial or planting of the spirit of the ELOHIM in the ground. ELOHIM buried THEIR spirit in Adam or emptied THEIR spirit potentially into Adam at his creation so that each of us might learn something about the renewal process. Our existence is indeed a training ground in which we learn the difference between good and evil, and some of us are blessed to learn how to overcome evil!

Lucy says
yes... the Elohims got buried in the womb to be birthed out at the right time as a testing ground to see if they would do the will, will, will, will, OF the FATHER OF ALL.. i am sure over this point Spying... a battle of wills.

Can we ask this
HAVE U Ab SPYING, learnt/learning this lesson...
I KNOW THIS
Lucy lady sure is.. I HATE SIN and I HATE BEING A REBEL and i hate upsetting my well beloved.. I HATE IT AND hate is a too nice a word UTTER LOATHING would be best. I dont wish to be a rebel.

Spying post

So, man was created male and female.
Man is a physical image of ELOHIM so both natures are found unified in the ELOHIM as you are fully aware. However, our physical male and female natures are only a physical shadow of spiritual maleness and spiritual femaleness. I have a sense that the ELOHIM are neither male nor female (Galatians 4:28), and neither do they give themselves in marriage (Matthew 22:30).

lucy says
yes and yes
i still have a question on this male/female aspect.
perhaps they thought it would be marvellous to be married and have chidren too.
maybe they wanted to FALL IN LOVE and desire for the first time...
It said the sons of God lusted after the fair ... therefore they wanted a different experience. BUT.. another thing is
the visible must be SEEN from the invisible....
therefore spiritual beings are able to ''watch'' our every move.
we are a SHOW CASE.
like a SHOP WINDOW we are like ''goods'' on display.
thats scarey.
to cont.

**LucySmith** · 05-14-2006, 04:23 PM

cont to meditate on

spying posts

So, what is the purpose of male and female?
Do both exist in a spiritual sense, and what exactly do each of us represent in the spiritual?

lucy says
ummm...
this sure is AN interestin' investigation Spying
we are SLEUTHS...
and i think your'e a marvellous sleuther...
Ab,
you HAVE FOUND YOUR NICHE as an INVESTIGATIVE REPORTER FROM THE GOODNEWS INC.

a caleb for sure.
as to your question
well frankly i dont know. So i shall sleuth.
----
How can we positively know??????

Gen 1 v 26 says CREATED male and female
Gen 2 says FORMED male containing male and female...but later.... split in 2
[question, why the split = answer- it was not good for man to be alone...could this be a clue here to the EOLHIMS ''aloneness'' ummm]

CREATED AND FORMED word meaning.

create - to produce, constitute, form, make, originate, generate.

formed - to shape, to figure, to outline a thing, to mould, to give a nature to, to fashion,to arrange in a likeness, to pattern and style,

DO these words contain DIFFERENT qualities IN THEIR descriptions, has to be our clue.
to me they look the same at first glance but there is a difference as well.

to create can mean form
but create does not suggest
a pattern
a mold,
a style and a fashion

formed
does not have, originate in its meaning, nor produce and generate
SO
these 2 words SEEMINGLY look THE SAME, it can be noted THERE IS A diference in true meaning.
That's my deduction.

therefore IMHO
male and female do exist as a created spiritual being Gen 1 but maybe not married or in a union, perhaps alone by themselves [question mark]
In respect to math 22 v 30 it is speaking after resurrection here so there is a different stage to see as well here and male and female spiritual beings of Gen 1 are not angels IMHO.
i have to leave this ? open till further light
however
in bible numerics
no 22 is light
no 30 is dedication
They are a created reflection of the 2 sides of Abba Almighty the Mother image and the Father image.

now
as for the formed created and breathed upon has to be DIFFERENT.
IMHO.

formed, to be fashioned after... means TO BE BASED ON A PATTERN.
A PATTERN~! Jesus Christ is OUR PATTERN, we are to be formed in HIM.
male and female can do this.
i am deducing and sleuthing.
JESUS CHRIST IS OUR PATTERN, OUR MOLD, OUR STYLE male and female can be formed in HIS PATTERN.
they cannot be created in His pattern but only a formed. i e
'' let CHRIST
[ the power of God] BE FORMED in you''. says Gal 4 19]
now also TO THROW Into THIS MIX. - We have Job.
This question is asked of him by Father there in Job 38 saying ''where were you....etc'' intimating Job the male person/spirit was there seeing creation being created, that is why the ranks sang and shouted for joy...
so here we see UNISON and no war so to speak.
however
also i have heard there was a gap/theory between Gen 1/2 where this vile hick-up occurred. This only has become ''fashionable '' since 1917AD approx?
YET
Job saw this all happening and he was a male responding by shouting.
then
ofcourse we have the whole JOB story, could this be a clue too.
his story of what happened in some parable-form.
i have to think more here...
but
Ab have we ''accomplished'' anything in our investigations....are we standing here on solid grounds.

PS.

the CREATOR, creates...http://hubblesite.org/gallery/album/entire_collection/

dont u think it would be wonderfull to be a part of such wonder. I do.

**Joyful** · 05-14-2006, 09:08 PM

Thank you for this thread

Dear Lucy,
I am very appreciative of this new thread you started. Gen 6 has always been such a great mystery to me and no one I spoke to about it could ever explain it to my satisfaction. I look forward to your future posts as you try to figure it out. It is a fascinating subject.

Thank you for the Happy Mother's Day good wishes for us moms in the USA. I was blessed to be with both my mom and my husband's mom today. In fact, we planted flowers for my mother in law. Happy Mum's Day to you too, Lucy. I am happy to know that your business did so well on this holiday and for your free advertising! Life is full of blessings!

My study and prayer about your belief in LIFE NOW continues. Have a wonderful week, Lucy.

Joyful

**LucySmith** · 05-14-2006, 10:58 PM

happy day Joyful

from Lucy

I cannot tell you HOW MUCH i was blessed yesterday. It was one huge miracle and One very wonderfull day. I love those days

and i am so gratefull for them.
and as for Gen 6 it is a mystery for sure, but i do feel somehow it shall be solved to all our satisfactions especally with friend the good reporter Spying in control. If a man of God [aka Ab] can have the divine revelation on LIFE NOW, Gen 6 shall be a breeze., and I have every SPIRITUAL confidence in his directional thinking - no doubts about this at all.amen

the 'sons of God' refer to 3 types...
angels
kings
men in covenant with God.

if it refers to kings in Gen 6.... could it all mean that these 'kings' were ABUSING their powers.
angels would not have the right 'equipments'
and any son of convenant relationship [roms 8 ] would not be a contender.

**Spying** · 05-15-2006, 07:29 AM

Giving Rules!

Hi Lucy Smith,

lucy says
yes Ab
we all like something new, as ''same old'' gets boring hey?
so i agree here.

I reaffirm our agreement here!

I love your courage and openness. I was afraid to just come out and say that the ELOHIM were bored, but they indeed were!

Therefore consider this Plz....there was a war over ''authority'' of who would rule and reign in the visible new world...or.... the whole new visible universe that was being considered..... and.... there was to be NO OTHER MIND on these rulerships but the MIND OF MESSIAH WHO IS THE POWER OF GOD.
HE would choose... NOT.. the others.
THAT IS WHY, we are to PUT ON THIS MIND now...
OHHHHH... thats so important for us Ab, to have this mind = not to war with Abba and Co.
we have to have a changed mind.
a mind that is not independant but in FULL UNION WITH....
the mind called CHRIST. = the CHRIST mind.

With this I fully, 100 % agree! All, whether they realize it or not, learn submission in this physical life. All have submitted to physical death so there are few in this physical life who can claim to be rebels. Mankind experiences death so that all learn submission from it. We don't know for certain what is on the other side of death. When the ELOHIM began to consider a renewal for themselves, THEY were faced with the same uncertainty. What would things be like on the other side of the renewal? I like the old. Would I like the new? I know what I am in the old. What will I be in the new? These were big issues for the ELOHIM.

The MIND which we see in Messiah Yahushua, this mindset was the ruling mindset amongst the ELOHIM. We can define it as "will", but "mindset" is also a good description. I say that this "will" ruled amongst the ELOHIM because this "will" is locked entirely into service through giving. Power comes through service. The greatest authority or greatest power is that which serves the all the most. This service is the most blessed because it constantly gives life through the practice of LOVE. Contemplate the physical here to understand the spiritual!

If you are able to see it, I have just defined and revealed my concept of spiritual maleness to you!

Males give. Females receive. Is it not better to give than to receive?

What say you Ladies?

Sincerely, Ab

**LucySmith** · 05-15-2006, 03:37 PM

100% agreements

hello Spying,
again u hit the nail on the spot
and
I am delighted to see we agree, however i knew we would right from the begining cuz i know that ''One flower does not make a garden'' so i listen to what u say with great care. amen

As for Elohims, to me they are exactly like us in personality and differing appearances etc after all, we are called the children of God... see this...
SO WE ARE the same type of being, but a lesser verson.
[maybe they are the lions and we are the cats but in the same family

]
Have u ever considered how we say
all the time
every day
almost in every sentence I AM...
i am... we are a smaller version of I AM.
Moses wanted to know the name of this God.. He said say ''I AM SENT YOU''.
I could say to you ''HELLO I AM Ab'' and it would be truth.

When we laugh, we got our laughter from them and smiles and love and all manner of stuffs... they have too.... but.... they also are more expanded =meaning other powers we cannot use yet.
NOTICE ''YET''.
yes again i agree about this learning submission.
actually i feel we all fight this trend, and it is hard to submit to another.
perhaps we are all too feisty., so we are to learn not to be so feisty by submitting as Messiah submitted Himself INFACT IT WAS a great OUTSTANDING QUALITY from Him.
and
HE MUST HAVE SUFFERED to bow as well...so there is SUFFERING IN BOWING TO THE WILL OF THE ALL MIGHTY...
so i ask this question...
why?
IF we could discover why we dont like to be submissive to the Word of God, we would understand and then be happy to be submitted.

i have a feeling that to be SUBMITTED TO THE LORD OF ALL.... BRINGS FORTH GREATER POWER, as in One accord.

so for arguements sake...what if all the Elohims had their own powers of expression BUT there came a time when they needed to MOVE ON into a new adventure and so, they had to surrender up their own powers to be unified and as ONE so that this NEW WAY would open up and more power and more might would be added to them all IF they could be in ONE ACCORD over it...
but
AS U SAID Ab, the old ways are hard to give up and to walk into the unknown is most difficult.
so some Elohims did not wish to surrender up~! and this became an explosion of bad attitudes, + WAR was declared.
some kings SAW the visible, saw the new formed ladies and desired them, this made them lusty so they left their 1st estate [ their former glory] and mated but were never able to return to their former world/realm.
Also notice here these ''sons of God'' these kings TOOK..
THEY DID NOT GIVE, but took.
just took.
but also
let us notice another point here.... as soon as 'the kings' saw the fair ladies, it took them quiet a while [namely between 7-10 generations of men] to decide to visit these fair ladies.

why did they wait so long, maybe if we figured it out it would have been over 1,000yrs?
and I STILL have not found the answer to where ''their seed'' came from.
It must have been already there prior too their fallen state. SO why did they need it, as in maleness in the other realm....it would have to be to ''father children''.

who can answer this mystery?
Do u know, no-one knows. No-one in this whole earth knows they only have opinions. They have studied this over and over and none can find out. sigh.

spying post

The MIND which we see in Messiah Yahushua, this mindset was the ruling mindset amongst the ELOHIM. We can define it as "will", but "mindset" is also a good description. I say that this "will" ruled amongst the ELOHIM because this "will" is locked entirely into service through giving. Power comes through service. The greatest authority or greatest power is that which serves the all the most. This service is the most blessed because it constantly gives life through the practice of LOVE. Contemplate the physical here to understand the spiritual!

If you are able to see it, I have just defined and revealed my concept of spiritual maleness to you! Males give. Females receive. Is it not better to give than to receive?

lucy says
agreed.
you said here Ab
IF WE CONTEMPLATE THE PHYSICAL, we can understand the SPIRITUAL.
that is a MASTER STROKE OF LOGIC amen

i think it has saved the day~

ok
lets do just that
did u see that no spiritual daughters were mentioned in Gen6.
The girls did not rebel.... but... the sons saw and the sons desired and the sons took, despite the troubles they would be in.
Now in the physical, is this not a MALE doing what he does best~!
the male is EXPERT at doing this - it is his nature to do this, his make up inside to reproduce especially against all odds.
why? BECAUSE LIFE IS THERE IN him.
NOW
IS THIS NOT EXACTLY THE SAME THING, that happened to the 'sons' who came out from the spiritual realm. OFCOURSE IT IS.
forgoodnesssakes
they were BIG LUSTY MALES doing what they do best, wanting to reproduce life in the visible world... but.. that was a NO NO and they messed up and paid the price for lust. If the sons were all sexless and had NO interests in fair females why the lusts and then the action.
its the birds and the bees.
they wanted to have a child in the visible.
and
that is exactly what happened. Hybrids, a species of 1/2 human 1/2 divine.
a fully sexual functional spiritual male begot a human child naturally.
IMHO i think this is so.
IF he was functional here, he would be functional there IMO amen

have u seen a picture of a giant?
I have... they were over 9ft tall and there was 2 of them and beside them an ordinary size male, they looked out of place here.
now
off on another tact here
remember the mother of James and John came to Messiah and asked Him if her sons could sit on the left side of His throne? remember
YET Messiah said paraphrased... it was His Father's choice, who would be there.
SO
NONE can choose their ''positions'' but THE BOSS... people can quarrel of status very easily.
no upstarts can say ''i want here and go there'' and again notice
in the new realm IT IS ONLY THE OVERCOMER who gets rewards..... NO other.
umm
and again we can ask DOES THE BOSS GET ANGRY at disobedience
well we do...why cannot OUR FATHER WHO ART IN HEAVEN

Hebrews 3:11
So I declared on oath in My anger, 'They shall never enter My rest.' "
and
Romans 2:8
''But for those who are self-seeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger.''

one can love and one can be angry... why? disobedience

how are we all progressing?
PS
i notice again i press the time button on 1-37pm.
No37 is the royal calling card.

**LucySmith** · 05-15-2006, 04:44 PM

cont....

may i say Plx

Spying , I really like U WHAT U written IT IS SO GODLY and reassuring somehow.

I AM FULLY CONVINCED... that there is NO greater relationship/union of the male to the female, both in the spiritual and in the natural than doing the will of Our Father.
When fully understood this union [marriage] would know NO LIMITS of creativity and abilities and utter contentments and full on happiness.
I can see this in my mind....this UNLIMITED LOVE flows into UNLIMITED GLORY, plus it OPENS UP vistas of great newness of life and adventures... even into new realms.
Some things even dont have words to express their full loveliness it takes feelings to manifest such words.

also

it takes this joint effort of a male with his helpmeet to achieve this perfect bliss.
we are also to remember this word

PERFECT.
without defect, flawless, a condition of complete excellence, precise, completed, and have nothing wanting.
imagine such a postion.

that POSITION is to be MOST ENVIED.

Announcement

????? an Idea only??????

????? an Idea only??????

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