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  • The Beasts of Revelations-Part 1

    The Beasts of Revelations

    (Rev 13:1-18) (1) And I stood upon the sand of the sea, and saw a beast rise up out of the sea, having seven heads and ten horns, and upon his horns ten crowns, and upon his heads the name of blasphemy. (2) And the beast which I saw was like unto a leopard, and his feet were as [the feet] of a bear, and his mouth as the mouth of a lion: and the dragon gave him his power, and his seat, and great authority. (3) And I saw one of his heads as it were wounded to death; and his deadly wound was healed: and all the world wondered after the beast. (4) And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who [is] like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him? (5) And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty [and] two months. (6) And he opened his mouth in blasphemy against Elohim, to blaspheme his name, and his tabernacle, and them that dwell in heaven. (7) And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations. (8) And all that dwell upon the earth shall worship him, whose names are not written in the book of life of the Lamb slain from the foundation of the world. (9) If any man have an ear, let him hear. (10) He that leadeth into captivity shall go into captivity: he that killeth with the sword must be killed with the sword. Here is the patience and the faith of the saints. (11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon. (12) And he exerciseth all the power of the first beast before him, and causeth the earth and them which dwell therein to worship the first beast, whose deadly wound was healed. (13) And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, (14) And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by [the means of] those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live. (15) And he had power to give life unto the image of the beast, that the image of the beast should both speak, and cause that as many as would not worship the image of the beast should be killed. (16) And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: (17) And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. (18) Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number [is] Six hundred threescore [and] six.

    Sinful man IS the FIRST Beast, rising out of the sea of humanity. When King David sinned, he was as a beast before Elohim:

    (Psa 73:22) So foolish [was] I, and ignorant: I was [as] a beast before thee.

    Carnal, sinful man is as a beast before Elohim, and the "head" of sinful man is not Elohim, rather it is Satan and those demonic powers that rule over the "beast/sinful man.":

    (Jn 8:44) Ye are of [your] father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

    When Yeshua returns, Satan will be bound, and the head of sinful man will receive a mortal wound as he is confined in the bottomless pit until the 1000 years are finished, and then he will in a sense, come back to life to deceive again:

    (Rev 20:1-3, 7) (1) And I saw an angel come down from heaven, having the key of the bottomless pit and a great chain in his hand. (2) And he laid hold on the dragon, that old serpent, which is the Devil, and Satan, and bound him a thousand years, (3) And cast him into the bottomless pit, and shut him up, and set a seal upon him, that he should deceive the nations no more, till the thousand years should be fulfilled: and after that he must be loosed a little season. (7) And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,

    Do you see? When the thousand years are expired (the Seventh Day/Sabbath/Millennium), Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, and that wound (by the Sword/Word of Elohim-v14) will be healed by his release from the abyss after the 1000 years are ended, and the HEAD of sinful man will again be in control of those who desire to worship the carnal flesh/sin.
    We are told that the “beast” has an image that everyone worships. This “image” is the created things that sinful mankind worships and lusts after:

    (Rom 1:25) Who changed the truth of Elohim into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature (the created things) more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

    Now, the "mark" of the beast/sinful man IS sin/iniquity:

    (Psa 130:3) If thou, Yehovah, shouldest mark iniquities, O Yehovah, who shall stand?

    (Job 10:14) If I sin, then thou markest me, and thou wilt not acquit me from mine iniquity.


    Sin is what MARKS sinful man as the beast, it identifies who stands before Elohim as a beast.

    So, this brings us to the "buying and selling" that requires the "mark of the beast." How could sin/iniquity be used to purchase or sell anything? This answer requires a good understanding of how Elohim's Grace works. Grace is the FREE Gift of Righteousness:


    (Gal 2:21) I do not frustrate the grace of Elohim: for if righteousness [come] by the law, then Messiah is dead in vain.

    And isn’t righteousness ALL of Elohim's commandments?

    (Psa 119:172) My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments [are] righteousness.

    Paul teaches that we receive this Grace (the Free Gift of Righteousness) by sinning. Because it was by or through our sin that we did do as the Law required of us to Sacrifice. But this takes faith to believe and receive. So as a free gift, we have been provided the means to whereby we can buy gold/salvation by the Righteousness or Justification found through Yeshua:

    (Rev 3:18) I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and [that] the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

    This gold/salvation comes at a great cost (the burning/suffering of Messiah Yeshua outside the city gate-Heb 13:11-12), and the end result is the Righteousness we receive by faith. This Righteousness is a DOING of the Law/Torah, not by "works" but according to the Spiritual Fulfillment of the Law/Torah. The Torah required ALL sinners to sacrifice for their sin, and ALL have done this unknowingly, by sacrificing THEIR sin offering (Yeshua) with the help of wicked men (Acts 2:22-23). All sinners did this THROUGH their sin, and without sin (the mark of the beast), they would not be able to receive/purchase the Salvation/Gold that is available from Yeshua:

    (Gal 2:17) But if, while we seek to be justified by Messiah, we ourselves also are found sinners (found as having the "mark" of the beast), [is] therefore Messiah the minister of sin? Elohim forbid.

    Sin is what crucified Yeshua, and if we continue in sin AFTER receiving THIS Knowledge of the Truth, we SELL the Gold/Salvation that we had received through our faithful confession of killing Yeshua through our sin. So you see, there is no buying or selling IN Yeshua without the "mark of the beast," which is sin. And the "number" of the beast/sinful man, is the number of Elohim's commandments (616), for each and every command of Elohim, NUMBERS us as sinners when we disobey them. The Latin Vulgate has 616 instead of 666, and I would submit that is a more accurate number for the beast, as the number of carnal man’s ways to sin, is the number of commands that have been given.

    Here are several excerpts from various articles speaking about the 616 versus 666:

    In Revelation 13;18 there is a “textual variant” at the number 666. Some manuscripts don’t read the number 666 at all but instead they read 616. In fact, the oldest extant manuscript containing Rev. 13:18 is a papyrus fragment called P115. This fragment reads 616 as the number of the beast, and if you wish to, you can see an image of this fragment for yourself by searching “P115” on Wikipedia.
    Already at the time of the church father Iranaeus (a.d. 130–202), the church was aware of this “variation” between 666 and 616 in biblical manuscripts. Irenaeus writes about it at some length in Against Heresies 05.30.1.[1] Irenaeus defends 666 as the correct number (as do most scholars today), and dismisses 616 as being the error of a copyist, which very well may be the case.

    An interesting element of {\displaystyle {\mathfrak {P}}}Papyrus 115 is that it gives the number of the beast in Revelation 13:18 as 616 (chi, iota, stigma (ΧΙϚ)), rather than the majority reading of 666 (chi, xi, stigma (ΧΞϚ)), as does Codex Ephraemi Rescriptus.

    "The number of the beast" is written as hexakosiai deka hex, lit. six hundred sixteen (616).[29] This is one of the most famous readings of the codex, it is also attested by Papyrus 115.[30]

    The first report that the Torah contains 613 commandments dates to the third century CE, when Rabbi Simlai mentioned this concept in a sermon that is recorded in the Babylonian Talmud, Makkot 23b. The Talmud states: “Rabbi Simlai gave as a sermon [darash Rabi Simlai]: 613 commandments were communicated to Moses – 365 negative commands, corresponding to the number of solar days [in a year], and 248 positive commands, corresponding to the number of the members [bones covered with flesh] of a man’s body.” It thus appears that Rabbi Simlai invented the number 613 because it fit his sermon: A person should observe the Torah with all his body parts (248) every day (365). The two numbers add up to 613.

    As far as we know, no one thought there were 613 biblical commandments before Rabbi Simlai offered his sermon. In fact, 150 years before Rabbi Simlai, ben Azzai is quoted as saying that there were three hundred biblical commands.
    Part 2 next post. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  • #2
    Beasts of Revelations-Part 2

    We are told that it takes “wisdom” to calculate the number of the beast, and guess what Elohim states about ALL of his statutes and commandments:

    (Deut 4:6) Keep therefore and do [them]; for this [is] your wisdom and your understanding in the sight of the nations, which shall hear all these statutes, and say, Surely this great nation [is] a wise and understanding people.

    So to calculate to the number of the beast is to calculate the number of Elohim’s statutes and commands that make us to be sinners/beasts before Him:

    (Rom 7:5-8) (5) For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death. (6) But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not [in] the oldness of the letter. (7) What shall we say then? [Is] the law sin? Elohim forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet. (8) But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence (lust/desire). For without the law sin [was] dead.

    This brings us to the 2nd beast, as is like unto the 1st beast, except it comes forth FROM the earth (Rev 13:11).

    (Rev 13:11) And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.

    This signifies that the 2nd beast is the resurrection of sinful mankind AFTER the 1000 years are ended (basically looks just like the 1st beast-sinful man). All of resurrected mankind (the 2nd beast) will be given the opportunity to come out from the beast (their sinful selves), but if they don’t, and if they again fall under the rule and deception of sinful man's head (Satan), showing themselves to be useless, sinful flesh, they will be cut off/destroyed:

    (Lev 12:3) And in the eighth day the flesh of his foreskin shall be circumcised.

    (Rev 20:15) And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.

    Hopefully, this has been of benefit to you. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

    Comment


    • #3
      Shalom Everyone, there are some who think they have wisdom and understanding. Sinful man, THE BEAST, has had many kings and kingdoms that has been RULED by their flesh. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
      Abstain from meats offered to idols
      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

      Comment


      • #4
        Topic: Buying From Messiah Yahushua

        Hi ImAHebrew,

        Blessings to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YAHOVAH ELOHIM!
        Shabbat Shalom!

        Question: If the mark of the beast is sin, and I think that we have generally agreed that this is so, how could it really be that we could in any fashion use this mark to buy gold tried in the fire from Messiah Yahushua?

        This scripture tells us something rather remarkable:

        Revelations 20:4
        4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Yahushuas, and for the word of ELOHIM, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither the image, neither have they received the mark of him upon the foreheads of them, and upon the hands of them; and they lived and reigned with Messiah a thousand years.

        According to the Scriptures, all have sinned, and, therefore, all have the mark, but this possession of the mark is not according to knowledge as Messiah did say: Father, forgive them for they know not what they do!

        We cannot knowingly purchase anything from Messiah Yahushua through our sin. Such a purchase would be an abomination.

        In a discussion with Hyssop concerning this issue, he advised me to explore how exactly Messiah Yahushua did purchase us. We were bought with a price. In my humble opinion, it is along these lines that we can learn what it means to purchase or buy anything from Messiah Yahushua.
        Yara Shalam, I am,
        Sincerely, Spying
        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

        Comment


        • #5
          Shabbat Shalom Spying, I can understand your reluctance to accept that through your sin, and the belief or faith of what it did do (Crucify Yeshua), that this would appear to be an abomination IF we KNOWINGLY and WILLINGLY used our sin in the purchase of the Salvation provided to us, BY SINNING. That would be like those who thought Paul was teaching like this when they falsely accused him of "Let us do evil so that good may come." But see, all sinners acted in ignorance not knowing what their sin was doing in accomplishing what the Law required of them. And that is the Power of the Cross and the Free Gift of Righteousness to TURN us away from the Mark of the Beast (which is Sin), in that we UNKNOWINGLY did do what the Law required of us, BY SINNING. Once we come to a Knowledge of this Truth, we no longer worship OUR "old" sinful selves, neither do we take upon our thoughts and actions to follow what we used to be. That old sinful beast, which we WERE, is DEAD, and we have arisen up INTO a NEW Life in Messiah Yeshua where worshiping the beast (sinful man) or the image of the beast (our physical lives), with the mark of sin upon our foreheads (in our thoughts), or upon our hands (in our actions) is NOT ALLOWED from our hearts. Thus, if anyone who KNOWS what their sin did purchase through the suffering and death of Messiah Yeshua (the Free Gift of Righteousness which saves us), and they then fall back INTO deliberate sin, they SELL their salvation and will receive the just reward for that action. In a nut shell, that is the buying and selling of the Salvation we can receive or lose BY SINNING. I hope this helps you to better see this great mystery. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
          Abstain from meats offered to idols
          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

          Comment


          • #6
            Hi ImAHebrew,

            Blessinsgs to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YEHOVAH ELOHIM!

            I actually began this reply to you on the 7th Sabbath prior to the Hag of the Harvest of the Firstfruits of Messiah Yahushua which HE has sown in HIS Field. I have been pondering my reply to you ever since. I also recognize and understand that you yourself are an Elder in a Church of ELOHIM so I must be extremely careful in my dealings with you on the issue which is before us. In my humble opinion, the original four men which Messiah called to establish a Church of ELOHIM in the St. Louis area were all called as Pastors or Elders. These four included our Brother Roger who has since passed away, yourself, Hyssop, and myself. Rightly or wrongly, I recognize no other men in this area as Elders in the Assembly of Yahushua.

            The focus of this reply is to examine the manner in which we are enabled to purchase from the resurrected Messiah Yahushua Gold tried in Fire as well as White Robes or Clothing and as well as Eyesalve (properly a poultice or plaster paste). Of course all of these are purchases commanded by Yahushua in Revelations 3:18

            18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see.

            There is no doubt in either of our minds that the above purchases commanded by Yahushua to the Church at Laodicea are spiritual in nature. Messiah is not seeking to sell the Laodiceans physical Gold, Clothing, and Eyesalve, Please make note that the resurrected Messiah Yahushua has the ability to sell these things to HIS Believers, and we have the ability to purchase the above things from HIM.

            Presently, you and I disagree on the nature or manner in which we can purchase from Messiah Yahushua Gold tried out of fire. I shall strive to detail my objection to your understanding concerning how we purchase from Messiah in future posts. This post shall be emailed to others as well as yourself. I look forward to the dialogue which may follow. Until then, I am and remain sincerely, Latuwr (Spying).
            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

            Comment


            • #7
              Topic: Our Salvation Is 100% A Gift!

              Hi ImAHebrew,

              Blessings to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Restored and Renewed YEHOVAH ELOHIM!
              It is my understanding through the writings of the Apostle Paul that our salvation is totally a free gift. Consider this scripture as quoted from the Greek TR Version:
              Ephesians 2:8
              8 τη γαρ χαριτι εστε σεσωσμενοι δια της πιστεως και τουτο ουκ εξ υμων θεου το δωρον
              Please allow me to offer my translation with some later commentary on the above verse:
              Ephesians 2:8
              8 For you (are) having been saved by the grace through the faith, and this is not out of yourselves, (it is) the gift of ELOHIM,
              σεσωσμενοι” above is a passive participle in the perfect tense. The use of the perfect tense in the Greek language denotes the present result of an action which has occurred in the past. This action worked on the Ephesian Believers is totally passive, and through the use of the above participle, the Apostle Paul is telling the Ephesian Believers that their salvation is the present result of a past action worked on them. This past action is gracious, and it is by the faith of Messiah Yahushua as directly indicated in Ephesians 3:12.
              It is imperative for you and for all others to contemplate what the Apostle Paul goes on to say in verse 9:
              Ephesians 2:9
              9 ουκ εξ εργων ινα μη τις καυχησηται
              Our salvation is directly the gift of ELOHIM, not out of works in order that no single person should be enabled to boast.
              Our departed Brother, Roger, (as well as his wife Evelyn) were disfellowshipped by Robert Spence because our Brother expressed in his letter to him that we had determined that no buying or selling in a physical sense should rightly take place on the weekly Sabbath Day (Saturday).
              It was abundantly clear to us at that time, and it is still abundantly clear that physical buying and selling are indeed works. Spiritual buying and selling likewise are works.
              Now Ephesians 2:10 (perhaps Lucy Smith’s favorite saying from Paul) clearly says that we are a workmanship or creation of Messiah Yahushua having been created by HIM for good works which the ELOHIM had prepared beforehand in order that we might walk in them.
              Accordingly, ImAHebrew, it is extremely difficult for me to accept your teaching above that gold tried in the fire is indicative of our salvation which we did purchase through our sin. Salvation to me is not something that we can buy or sell. Indeed, salvation is a gift received, and it is a gift that can be lost through apostacy.
              I desire for all to know that I have in the past been both right and wrong about many things. I am looking forward to hearing the discussion which the Brothers and Sisters might have on this issue primarily because of the bearing this issue will have on LIFE NOW!
              Sincerely, I am your Brother, Latuwr (Spying}
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Sorry this is off topic, but...
                I haven't forgotten about this place. It's been about 18 years or so since I was active here. I visited your congregation many years ago as well. Back then I was an evangelical christian, but today I have no faith in the bible as the word of God. You all helped me learn a lot, and I'm thankful for that. It helped me get to where I am now, outside the box of fundamentalism. I hope you are well.
                Shalom.
                -matt

                Comment


                • #9
                  Topic: A Special Group!

                  Hi Matthew23,
                  Blessings to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and the Restored YEHOVAH ELOHIM!

                  A whole lot of water has flowed under the bridge since you first joined this forum in 2002. I went back and examined a number of your posts, and I am very happy to see you here at this forum once again. There is nothing wrong with being outside the box of fundamentalism. I myself am way outside the box of fundamentalism. I mean, who within the box of fundamentalism believes in LIFE NOW as I do?

                  The Old Testament Scriptures were established by Judaism, and the New Testament Scriptures were established by Catholicism. I view both as being within the box of fundamentalism. While I myself work primarily with the Scriptures which they have established, I do not object to anyone examining any writings which fall outside their established canons.

                  According to my understanding, no one can come to a knowledge of the Truth without being moved by the spirit of the risen Messiah Yahushua. It is the influence of HIS spirit in our lives which allows us to interpret the meaning and purpose of our lives on this Earth. All secrets of the Scriptures belong to the risen Messiah Yahushua and to those whom HE has called to HIMSELF. We are a special group, and as such, I am,
                  Sincerely, Latuwr (Spying)
                  The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Shabbat Shalom Everyone! I am writing this today to help clarify what Yeshua meant when He told the Laodiceans to buy from Him, gold tried in the fire. This past week I had the privilege to meet with Ken Duenke and Dave Bannen to discuss this. Some of you may not know, but Allen has contended with me concerning the buying and selling of those who have the mark of the beast. My previous explanation above concerning the gold that is tried in the fire, is the salvation which can be purchased or bought by or though faith. His contention with that explanation is that salvation is a free gift, and cannot be purchased or bought. Ken Duenke did agree with Allen and told me that to purchase something you need to work. At that meeting I did present that the gold could be better explained as representing FAITH. I based this partly upon what Peter had to say concerning how the trial of their faith was more precious than gold:

                    1Pe_1:5-9 Who are kept by the power of Elohim through faith unto salvation ready to be revealed in the last time. (6) Wherein ye greatly rejoice, though now for a season, if need be, ye are in heaviness through manifold temptations (trials/testing): (7) That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Messiah Yeshua: (8) Whom having not seen, ye love; in whom, though now ye see him not, yet believing, ye rejoice with joy unspeakable and full of glory: (9) Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.

                    If you notice, it’s through faith UNTO salvation, and the end or fulfilment of your faith IS the salvation of your soul. So, if this gold, which is tried in the fire, is FAITH, and FAITH results in salvation, then it’s not out of line to explain that the GOLD can result in or picture salvation also. But Ken Duenke’s objection to the buying of this gold meant that there had to be some form of work taking place, which made me look at this closer.

                    I NOW believe that Yeshua was referring to HIS faith (the gold), that was tried in the fire, that the Laodiceans should buy from Him. You see, the Laodiceans had great wealth and was in need of nothing, yet they needed to buy from Yeshua gold tried in the fire. Consider how Yeshua had great wealth and was in need of nothing, yet He (by faith) gave all of that up to become a man and suffer greatly. He humbled Himself, and now He has been exalted above all because He worked His faith in fulfilling what the Scriptures foretold of what would happen to Him.

                    Now, faith without works is dead, and all Yeshua was telling the Laodiceans that they needed to WORK THEIR faith, just as He worked His faith in fulfilling Scripture, and that would be as a buying of Yeshua’s faith. He was telling them to FOLLOW Him in His footsteps. Buy that faith that He had, in giving up everything, so that they could become RICH. (2 Cor 8:9)

                    Bottom line, the FAITH of Yeshua to give up all and then to suffer, die, be buried, and raised the 3rd day (His being tried in the fire), results in the salvation by and through our FAITH in the Free Gift of Righteousness, and this Righteousness comes to us as a result of our sin (the mark of the beast). Only those who had the mark of the beast can buy or sell, and with our FAITH, in the Free Gift of Righteousness that comes to ALL who have sinned, do we attain too (buy) the salvation that comes by Yeshua being our Sacrifice. We are SAVED by Grace (the free gift of righteousness) THROUGH faith, and without faith, it is impossible to please Elohim.

                    So hopefully this further explanation can help to remove the contention that had arisen.

                    Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew
                    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                    Abstain from meats offered to idols
                    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Topic: Gold Is LOVE

                      Hi ImAHebrew,

                      Blessings to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YEHOVAH ELOHIM!

                      Thank you for your post above dated 1/1/2022. For the most part I was encouraged and did appreciate your clarification concerning the Gold Tried in the Fire which our Messiah Yahushua did admonish the Church of the Laodiceans to buy from HIM. Of course, I am certain that we both believe that this admonishment also applies to A Church Of God in which we belonged and served.

                      Prior to our meeting with witnesses, I approached Hyssop and asked him how it would be possible to purchase anything from Messiah Yahushua? Hyssop encouraged me to explore the nature in which Messiah Yahushua did purchase HIS Chosen Ones, and in following that advice, it did appear to me that Gold Tried in the Fire represented HIS LOVE. The Apostle Paul states that these three things endure: FAITH, HOPE, and LOVE, with the greatest of the three being LOVE. Later, Hyssop did ask me whether or not the three things that Messiah Yahushua did encourage HIS Believers to buy from HIM were interrelated? I followed that line of reasoning, and I began to wonder in my mind how the three could be related, and now because of your post, I am inclined to believe that the Gold represents LOVE, the White Raiment represents FAITH, and the POULTICE placed over our eyes in a spiritual sense represents HOPE.

                      Accordingly, should it be possible to purchase these three enduring things from Messiah, then we as HIS Believers should make haste to do so lest we be found poor, blind, and naked at HIS appearing.

                      Of course, while I liked your approach toward this issue in the majority of your post above, I am finding it difficult to accept or believe your concluding or last paragraph. Your last paragraph did not seem to me to fit with the bent of your remarks above that paragraph, but who knows that may just be a reflection of my bias.

                      Looking forward to further discussion of this issue, I am,
                      Sincerely, Latuwr
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Shalom Everyone, in response to Spying's latest post of Gold Is LOVE, I sent him a private email to hopefully get us too ultimately agree. He told me this morning that he was planning on responding on Lo-Ammi with a series of short posts and said that if I want, I should copy what I sent him to post here. So here below is what I sent him and if anyone would like to comment concerning what we are disagreeing on, please feel free. To briefly explain the difference, Spying says the Gold refined in the fire is LOVE, and I say it is FAITH, Spying says the White Raiment is FAITH and I say it is RIGHTEOUSNESS, and Spying says the Poultice (eye salve) is HOPE, and I say it is SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING. Spying doesn't really address how the "buying" of LOVE, FAITH and HOPE is accomplished from Messiah, and that would be nice if he would. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew

                        Dear Spying,

                        I am sending this to you privately out of respect and my love for you. I am a little disappointed with your bias. Please read this with an open mind.

                        Gold = LOVE In your mind, do you think Yeshua was trying to correct what Peter had said concerning how it is our FAITH (like gold) that is tried by fire, and was He now exposing Peter's error, as according to your understanding, that Yeshua meant that it is LOVE which is tried by fire, instead of FAITH? Please consider these Scriptures that speak of it being FAITH that is TRIED:

                        1Pe_1:7 That the trial of your faith, being much more precious than of gold that perisheth, though it be tried with fire, might be found unto praise and honour and glory at the appearing of Messiah Yeshua:

                        2Th_1:4 So that we ourselves glory in you in the churches of Elohim for your patience and faith in all your persecutions and tribulations that ye endure:

                        Jas_1:2-3 My brethren, count it all joy when ye fall into divers temptations; (3) Knowing this, that the trying of your faith worketh patience.

                        Rev_2:10 Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.

                        1Pe_5:8-9 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil, as a roaring lion, walketh about, seeking whom he may devour: (9) Whom resist stedfast in the faith, knowing that the same afflictions are accomplished in your brethren that are in the world.

                        White Raiment = FAITH In your mind, do you think the other verses in Revelations that speak of "white raiment/linen" that they were also representing FAITH? Is it FAITH that covers nakedness, or is it RIGHTEOUSNESS...walking in and doing what is right as one OVERCOMES? And the fact that Rev 19:8 explicitly states the clean, white, fine linen that the Saints wear, is RIGHTEOUSNESS, not FAITH.

                        Rev_3:4-5 Thou hast a few names even in Sardis which have not defiled their garments; and they shall walk with me in white: for they are worthy. (5) He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

                        Rev_16:15 Behold, I come as a thief. Blessed is he that watcheth, and keepeth his garments, lest he walk naked, and they see his shame.

                        Rev_7:13-14 And one of the elders answered, saying unto me, What are these which are arrayed in white robes? and whence came they? (14) And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

                        Rev_19:8 And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints.

                        Rev_19:14 And the armies which were in heaven followed him upon white horses, clothed in fine linen, white and clean.

                        Anointing = HOPE Is not the ANOINTING Spiritual Knowledge and Understanding through and by the Spirit, instead of HOPE? Consider how the man born blind from birth received his sight. Did not Yeshua show how Elohim was giving sight to the blind by adding spittle (water/life) to the dust (Yeshua's dead body), and then OPENING up that Knowledge and Understanding of what the Scriptures said would take place...His resurrection (anointing the blind with that information). And once that anointing is placed upon the understanding of the BLIND (their eyes), then their EYES are OPENED (and they now have sight) and they then are washed/baptized INTO the One who was sent. That picture of the man born blind from birth is a picture of ALL of mankind, how they are BLIND until they are anointed by the Spirit with the Knowledge of the Truth. It takes Knowledge and Understanding to come to the Truth and remain in it, and it appears the Laodiceans had become LACKING in this. John speaks of the anointing, and how it gives Knowledge and Understanding to KNOW all things, and that anointing needs to abide and not be seduced by the pulls and desires of this world:

                        1Jn_2:20 But ye have an unction from the Holy One, and ye know all things.

                        1Jn_2:27 But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.

                        It is when you KNOW all things, that is when you TRULY can see, and that is what the anointing of the Spirit in all Wisdom, Knowledge and Truth gives. Having our eyes anointed with HOPE only gives us a HOPE of being able to see sometime in the future.

                        Sincerely, your brother, ...(ImAHebrew)
                        Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                        Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                        Abstain from meats offered to idols
                        (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                        So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Topic: The Three Precious Things Are Interrelated!

                          Hi ImAHebrew,

                          Blessings to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YEHOVAH ELOHIM!
                          Shabbat Shalom!

                          Just a short note this fine Sabbath morning to acknowledge to everyone that you did do as you say above concerning your latest post.

                          It is well within my purpose to reiterate to you that the three precious things which Messiah Yahushua has commanded to each of us to purchase from HIM are indeed interrelated. I have only to make mention of one scripture to show you what I mean. That scripture is the definition of FAITH found right here:

                          Hebrews 11:1
                          1 Now faith is the confidence of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

                          Now, if it is evident, and it is, that the practice of HOPE involves FAITH, I wonder, do you suppose that the practice of LOVE also involves FAITH?

                          Thanking you in advance for your reply, I am,
                          Sincerely, Latuwr (Spying)
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Good Morning Spying! I think you may have become a little confused concerning your contention with me. I have never said that FAITH, RIGHTEOUSNESS, and SPIRITUAL UNDERSTANDING are NOT interrelated...they are, and I have explained HOW you BUY from Messiah those interrelated things. Is it possible for you to show us how you buy from Messiah the interrelated things of LOVE, FAITH, and HOPE, that you espouse? And then, please explain HOW it is possible that NO MAN might BUY or SELL, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name? Blessings in The Name, and thanking YOU in advance for YOUR reply, ImAHebrew.
                            Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                            Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                            Abstain from meats offered to idols
                            (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                            So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                            Comment

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