Who are the Jews?

[Sandy]

The descendants of Israel can not be in the land of promise today as a sovereign nation because the Hebrew Scriptures tell us they were scattered to the four corners of the earth to dwell in the land of their enemies until they turn back to YHUH.

The Hebrew Scriptures also tell us that when natural Israel is gathered and returned to their land YHUH will dwell with them in truth and rightness. That certainly is not a picture of Jerusalem or the land of Israel today, nor anytime over the past 2000 years.

That tells me that Israel has not been gathered and is not back in their land as promised. They are still in the land of their enemies because they have not yet turned back to YHUH. When natural Israel returns to the land they will be the upright nation that they are suppose to be and there will be no rebels or anyone who transgresses against YHUH in the land when natural Israel is returned.

When Abraham was told he and his seed would possess the land, he was told the land would stretch from Egypt to the Eurphates river (Genesis 15:18), so this prophecy in Genesis is also yet to be fulfilled.

That means the majority of those known as Jews living in Israel today are not the seed to which the promise was made.

What do the Scriptures say will happen to the children of Israel when they haved turned away from YHUH and are scattered to the four corners of the earth and are forced to live among their enemies?

Deuteronomy 28
48) You shall serve your enemies whom YHUH shall send on you, in hunger and in thirst, and in nakedness and in lack of all things. And he shall put an iron yoke on your neck...
49) YHUH shall raise a nation against you from afar, from the end of the earth, as the eagle flies; a nation whose tongue you will not understand; a nation fierce of face who will not regard the elderly, nor show favor to the young.
64) And YHUH shall scatter you among all people, from one end of the earth even to the other...
65) And among these nations you shall find no ease nor shall the sole of your foot find rest. But YHUH shall give you there a trembling heart, failing of eyes and sorrow of mind.
66) And your life shall hang in doubt before you and you shall fear day and night and shall have no assurance of your life.
68) ......And you shall be sold to your enemies as slaves...

Those we know as Jews do not fit that profile.

Jews are a prosperous people both here and in Israel. They are major owners in the movie industry, television stations, print media (newspapers and magazines) banks national and international. More than 100 Israeli companies, virtually all of them in the high-tech sector, are traded on the stock exchange in New York. Only the US and Canada have more.

This does not sound like a people who are under an iron yoke or have a trembling heart, failing of eyes and sorrow of mind; or in fear of their life day and night or who have been sold to their enemies as slaves.

So who are the majority of those known as Jews?

The Jews of modern day Israel consist mainly of two groups, the Ashkenazi and Sephardi. Ten to twenty percent are known as Sephardi or Eastern Jew, the remaining eighty to ninety percent are known as Ashkenazi or European Jew. The Ashenazi Jews come from Eastern European countries, the Sephardi come from "mideast countries".

The Ashkenazi are descended from Japheth's son Gomer not from the line of Shem, therefore they are not descendants of Israel.

Who are the Khazars? Are they descendants of Israel which come from the line of Shem?

A Khazar King named Joseph corresponded with a Spanish Israelite named Hasdai Ibn Sharprut sometime between 954 and 961 C.E. (Manuscripts of this correspondence may be seen in the Library of Christ Church at Oxford, England and in the Leningrad Public Library in Leningrad, Russia). Hasdai was the chief minister of the Caliph of Cordoba Abd-al-Rahman III. At that time Cordoba was the splendor of Moorish Spain (a mixture of black skinned Muslims and Israelites), and was the main center of European Culture. In his letter to Hasdai, King Joseph states that he is from the line of JAPHETH, FROM THE SEED OF TOGARMAH, Japheth's grandson. He further stated that Togarmah, who was the brother of ASHKENAZ, had ten sons and the KHAZARS represented the seventh son. With his own lips, he declares the root of his being as being descended from the line of Japheth.

Genesis 10
2) The sons of Japheth: Gomer, Magog, Madai, Javan, Tubal, Meshech, and Tiras.
3) The sons of Gomer: ASHKENAZ, Riphat, and TOGARMAH.
4) The sons of Javan: Elishah, Tarshish, Kittim, and Dodanim.
5) THE COASTS OF THE NATIONS were divided by these in their lands, each by his tongue, by their families, in their nations.

According to the King of the Khazars, his people descended from the line of Japheth, from the seed of Togarmah who is brother of Ashkenaz (Ashkenaz is the father of the Ashkenazi). In approximately 740 C.E. the king of the Byzantines and the Arabs who had heard of the fame of Khazar King Bulan sent their envoys and ambassadors with great riches and many great presents to the him as well as some of their wise men with the object of converting him to their own religion. Before the conversion, the King searched, inquired, and investigated carefully and brought the sages together that they might argue about their respective religions. He came to the conclusion that the the religion of the Israelites was the best.

If the Khazars are from the line of Japheth they are not descendants of Israel.

Let's take a look at the Sephardi or Eastern Jew/Edomite. They have been in the land for over 1900 years, since the 1st century C.E. They are indigenous to the "mideast". They are the real Edomites (descendants of Jacobs twin Esau/Edom) they have lived side by side with the Arab population for many centuries. They are descended from Shem. They differ from the Ashkenazi in appearance in that they have darker skin and look more like the Arab population of the Middle East. They comprise less than 20% of the population in Israel.

What do the Hebrew Scriptures have to say concerning the Sephardi?

Obadiah
10) For the violence against your brother Jacob shame shall cover you, and you shall be cut off forever.
11) In the day of your standing opposite, in the day that strangers took captive his forces, and foreigners entered into his gates and cast lots for Jerusalem, you were as one of them.
12) But you should not have looked on the day of your brother in the day of his estrangement; nor should you have rejoiced over the sons of Yahudah in the day of their destruction; neither should you have enlarged your mouth in the day of distress.
13) You should not have entered into my people's gate on the day of their calamity nor should you have looked on their evil in the day of their calamity; nor should you have sent out against their force in the day of their calamity.
14) Neither should you have stood in the crossway to cut off those of him who escaped; nor should you have shut up his survivors in the day of distress.
15) For the day of YHUH is near on all the nations. As you have done, it shall be done to you. Your reward shall return on your head.

[Thummim]

I have to confess that I find this thread rather disturbing. It seems like a hunt for racial purity. It strikes me as rather, [hitler-esk]. The JEWs are first a people who practice their faith. Hitler believed that JEWs were JEWs by race. It confused him and others like him, that JEWs looked so much like other people. No doubt, it disturbed the antisemites of Germany very much, that JEWish children could be mistaken for German children. The JEWs are not a race of people. Racially, they are the same as Americans, British, French et-al. Not all JEWs left the land of Palistine two millennia ago. There has always been a JEWish presence in the land during this time. Christianity doesn't teach this, but it is so. The people who occupied Judea were descended from the line of Judah as well as having many whose ancestry comes from the line of Benjamin (Ez.1:5) and many Levites as well. I suppose, due to human nature, that there was also intermarrage to temper the line of people who are called JEWs. To keep track of this people, we don't follow bloodlines. We follow their faith. So many people have become JEWs that anyone could discover ancestary within the JEWish people. YHWH seeks a people who will keep his faith. Even strangers are excepted among JEWs by YHWH. When the faith of YHWH returns to Israel, the people of YHWH will have returned also. I know, Sandy, that you love this people as much as I do and so I know that you are only looking for new truth to pursue. But others might take this line of questioning as racial. JEWs are JEWs, also by name. It's apparent that antisemites have no trouble telling "Who are JEWs". Racial purity is not a prerequisite to inheriting the land. I'm sure that you could prove this for all of us. I like the idea of the line of Judah giving birth to the new sons of Israel. (Isa,48:1). I just want to make sure that anyone who takes any inheritance from this people is worthy of it. Whatever the current bloodline is, of the JEWish people, I will defend them and their right to the land of Israel, with my life. Then too, the JEWs taught me my faith. ....Michael

[Sandy]

Hi Thummim
Sorry that this thread is offensive to you. If you can show me anything in it that is incorrect I will do my best to correct it.

This post had nothing to do with racial purity, if there is such a thing. It has to do with looking for signs as indicated in the Hebrew Scriptures. The Greek Scriptures are supposedly the New Covenant. I do NOT see it as such.

The word Jew is a catch-all word. It can be applied to anyone that is in a relationship with Judaism no matter what form or what location. There are numerous Jewish sects just like their are numerous Christian sects and Protestant sects, etc., etc., and has nothing to do with race or racial purity. As you pointed out it has everything to do with Judaism. But does Judaism as a whole truly follow the Hebrew Scriptures? If it does why are there so many different forms of Judaism? Which form is correct? Why do they need the Talmud, Mishna, etc.? Why do they refuse to proclaim the name of the Almighty? Just because someone is a Jew it does not guarantee that they are of Israel or Yahudah or that they are one of YHUH'S people.

The Hebrew Scriptures tell us the situation of Israel while scattered among their enemies will be as stated in Deuteronomy 28:48-68. Do you not believe what is stated in Deuteronomy 28?

There are a great number of Jews in Israel today. If they are the gathered of Israel returned to the land why are they still so prominent in places like the US? If the Jews living in Israel are the gathered remnant of Israel returned to the land:

• Why is there no sign of the New/Renewed Covenant?
• Why is the Anointed One of YHUH not ruling and reigning in Jerusalem?
• Why is the Talmud and Mishna etc. needed if the Torah is written on their heart?
• Why are there so many Jewish sects?
• Why are not Israel and Yahudah one nation dwelling on the land as promised, stretching from the Nile to the Euphrates?
• Why is everyone still running to and fro teaching his neighbor and his brother about YHUH and even arguing about his name?
• Why isn't YHUH'S dwelling place and sanctuary in their midst?
• Why are they not secure on their land?

[Sandy]

Does anyone know from who or where the word Jew was first coined?

I do not believe it is synonymous with Yahudah/Yehudah or Israel.

[Thummim]

A rabbi told me that the Romans first used the term JEW to speak of the people who lived in Judea. That would be the descendants of the tribe of Judah along with the others that were mixed into that tribe, or so I suppose. The Talmud and the Mishnah are commentaries. They are read as such, presenting differing opinions on the torah to discuss. As to the 28th chapter of Deut., I take it as a curse that goes along, with lawlessness. It works so for any people. The JEWs haven't abandoned their faith as A whole, They practice it, more or less, as does any other people. Isn't it interesting, that more is asked of this people than any other that I know of. Who is concerned about how Moslems or Buddists measure up to their faiths? The JEWs are more than the tanakh. They're the people who are responsiple for the existance of the tanakh. I really doubt that there would have been a YHWH, if not for the Yahudeem. I think that we would be worshiping our own gods, were it not for this people. Remember that YHWH was their own eloheem once upon a time.
....Michael

[Moses]

Sandy,

Jews, in modern usage, synonymous with Hebrews and Israelites; historically and ethnically, however, the words have different meanings. As a general historical term, the word Hebrew has no ethnic connotation, being applied to any of numerous Semitic, nomadic tribes dwelling in the eastern Mediterranean area before 1300 BC. In Jewish history, the term is applied specifically to those tribes that accepted Yahweh as their deity, from the time of their prehistoric origins to the time they conquered ancient Palestine (called Canaan) and, about 1020 BC, became a united nation ruled by a king. The term Israelite connotes a particular ethnic and national group, descended from the Hebrews and united culturally by their religion; the term is historically descriptive of this group from the conquest of Canaan to the destruction of the kingdom of Israel in 721 BC by the Assyrian king Sargon II. The term Jew refers to a third group, the cultural descendants of the first two, from the time of their return from the so-called Babylonian Captivity to the present. The word itself stems ultimately from the Hebrew yehudhi, originally meaning a member of the Hebrew tribe of Judah, the ancient territory of which was organized as the Roman province of Judaea in AD 6. The English word Jew is derived directly from the Latin Judaeus, meaning an inhabitant of Judea.

Modern Jews are members of a separate ethnic community or fellowship rather than of a race—a community that, in the face of incessant and terrible persecution, has maintained its identity for almost 19 centuries, from the final dissolution of the Roman province of Judea in AD 135 to the establishment of the modern state of Israel in 1948. In 1970 the Israeli Knesset adopted legislation defining a Jew as any one born of a Jewish mother or of a convert. The remarkable preservation of Jewish group identity has resulted, primarily, from strict adherence to Judaism, with which Jewish history is inextricably bound. This religion governs Jewish life in every aspect, requires the education of the young, and includes in its traditional doctrines hope for and faith in the establishment of a messianic kingdom. Although reform movements began to affect Judaism in the 19th century, the survival of all Jewish communities was the result of the piety with which preceding generations had adhered to the Jewish Law. A distinguishing characteristic of the Jewish people has been their respect for and devotion to education and learning, which are considered acts of worship.

The biblical accounts of Hebrew genealogy and history are credible in most instances, as far as can be ascertained from archaeological and historical research. They were not written in their present form, however, until centuries after the events described; therefore they require careful interpretation. In a confession of faith that Moses imparted to the assembled Hebrews

Marietta

[Moses]

Sandy, I find this a very interesting thread. The question should be, what is a goy (plurel goim) (gentile). According to my hebrew dictionary it is a disporic Jew, which would put a whole new light on who spiritual Israel really is.
Jesus said that he only came for the lost house of Israel so when Jesus and Paul sent out disciples and told them to go into all the world and teach the gospel, what was being said was to go into all the world to the disporic Jews. This was the promise made to Abraham. That all his discendents would be blessed, which meant those born of all of his children, not just those born through Issac.

Marietta

[Sandy]

Thank you Thummim and Moses, I appreciate and found everything you said very interesting.

Is there any truth to the statement that the Jews of modern day Israel consist mainly of Ashkenazi and Sephardi?