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  • Confusing or conflicting statements

    The Hebrew Scriptures contain a number of confusing or conflicting statements, which tend to divide its readers. How do we deal with this? How do we overcome the confusion and division that it creates?

    I would like to start with the first chapters of Genesis and then move on to others after hopefully receiving feedback on this portion.

    Genesis 1-2 we have:
    • the plants and trees being created before the sun
    • the dividing of light and dark being done before the creation of the sun and moon
    • the creating of birds and animals and then mankind (both male and female in the image of Elohim) in chapter 1, but in chapter 2 we have one man brought into being (from the dirt of the ground), then the birds and animals and last of all the woman (taken out of the man).
    Sandy

  • #2
    Good question Sandy. The way I see it is that in Genesis Chapter one, life is planted on Earth and then in Genesis chapter two Adam comes to give laws and government to mankind. Which explains the different order of the two Chapters. In Chapter one the earth, sun and moon, day and night are established before mankind is created. In Chapter two the earth is established so all that is needed is a place to set up a living space for Adam, the Garden, as it is called.

    Shalom, Moses

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Moses
      Good to see you.

      What is you opinion concerning:
      • the plants and trees being created before the sun
      • the dividing of light and dark being done before the creation of the sun and moon

      Actually we have the dividing of light and dark being done on day one and day four (Genesis 1:4, 18)

      You stated:
      in Genesis chapter two Adam comes to give laws and government to mankind
      Maybe, but actually the Scriptures say that the purpose of the adam in chapter two was to work the ground.
      Genesis 2:15
      And YHUH Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Eden, to work it and to guard it.
      Sandy

      Comment


      • #4
        Sandy,
        Well here is how I see it.

        You wrote:
        >>the plants and trees being created before the sun
        the dividing of light and dark being done before the creation of the sun and moon<<

        My reply:
        I believe this is speaking about the creation of our galaxie and especially our solor system. I also believe that at that time the whole galaxie was lit by the light that is now contained within the center of the galaxie.
        The light used for the planting of things was the light at the center of our galaxie which at that time lit the whole sky. It was this light that was divided into day and night.
        The second dividing of light was that of the sun and the moon in our own solor system.

        You wrote:
        Maybe, but actually the Scriptures say that the purpose the adam in chapter two was to work the ground.
        Genesis 2:15 And YHUH Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Eden, to work it and to guard it.

        My reply:
        Go back and read the verse again. Adam is told to subdue the earth and to be master of it. He was the first "king". The garden was his royal estate.

        Marietta

        Comment


        • #5
          It is the adam in Genesis 1 that is told to subdue the earth. The adam in Genesis 2 is put in the garden to work it and guard it.
          Genesis 1:28
          And Elohim blessed them and said to them, Be fruitful and mutiply and fill the earth and subdue it and rule over the fish of the seas and over birds of the heavens and over all living things creeping on the earth.

          Genesis 2:15
          And YHUH Elohim took the man and put him in the garden of Eden, to work it and to guard it.
          In Genesis 2 the animals and birds are made as a mate or counterpart for adam.

          Sandy

          Comment


          • #6
            Hello Sandy and all. There is a way to combine the two accounts of creation. It all hindges on where we divide chapters one and two of Genesis. It also requires that we interpret the word (aretz) as land. The story has to be divided at Gen.2:4 where this line ends,"This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created." We also have to use the word "aretz" partitively. Aretz [Strongs, 776] from an unused root prob. mean. "to be firm"; the earth (at large or partitively a land): We now speak of the land of Eden as having no one to till it. When the LORD GD made the earth and the heavens (prieviously), -now-[in the land of Eden], no shrub of the field was yet in the (land), and no plant of the field had yet sprouted. YHWH GD (the new term for mentioning the diety), had not sent rain upon the (land of Eden), and there was no man to cultivate the ground. Remember that the tanakh was not divided into chapters at first. Much of the confusion has to do with how we use the word (aretz). Dividing the chapters where the name of Eloheem becomes YHWH Eloheem works better. The change in names does not necessarily indicate two authors. It may simply have been the authors attempt to make the reading of these words which he had written, more easy to understand due to the lack of chapters and verses. .....Michael
            Last edited by Thummim; 03-06-2001, 07:44 AM.

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            • #7
              Greetings Sandy,
              You wrote:
              >>>It is the adam in Genesis 1 that is told to subdue the earth. The adam in Genesis 2 is put in the garden to work it and guard it.<<<

              My reply:
              In Genesis Chapter one the men and women were told to subdue the fish of the sea and rule the birds of the air and to rule every creeping thing. It does not say that they were to subdue mankind or the earth.
              Once these people populated and subdued all animal life on the earth, Adam comes to bring the laws of nature and government upon the earth. He is told to cultivate the earth and to take care of it. He is the first King put in charge of things.

              You wrote:
              >>>In Genesis 2 the animals and birds are made as a mate or counterpart for adam.<<<

              My reply:
              Crossbreeding is not exceptable before God which is why he says to mate after your kind. The animals were not created as mates. They were merely created and brought before Adam to receive names and as they were brought in the presence of Adam, Adam realized that he couldn't relate to these beasts. So a perfect mate was made for him. The animals were only brought before him to see if any of them would be good as help in the fields, as work animals. Adam realized that these beast could preform word in the field but they could not give him comfort.
              However in Chapter three his wife decided to mate with the animals.

              Marietta

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi Moses
                Looks like we have an interesting debate going here.
                Genesis 2
                18) And YHUH Elohim said, It is not good the adam (man) being alone. I will make for him a help (5828) mate (5048).
                19) And YHUH Elohim formed from the ground (adamah, same thing adam was made from) all life of the field and every bird of the heavens; and brought them to the adam to see what he would call them. And all which the adam called each living soul that was it name.
                20) And the adam called names to all the behemah and to birds of the heavens and to every living thing of the field; but for adam there was not found a help (5828) mate (5048).
                It states the birds and animals were made first, prior to the ishah (woman), for the same purpose that the ishah was later made.

                The ishah (woman) was not made until it was discovered that the birds and animals were not suitable as a help (5828) mate (5048) for the adam.

                #5828 ezar aid; from 5826 azar to surround, i.e. protect or aid.

                #5040 neged a front, i.e. part opposite; spec. a counterpart, or mate.

                Sandy

                Comment


                • #9
                  Hi Thummim
                  It is understood, as well as obvious, that Genesis 2:4 should be Genesis 2:1. However, I do not see knowing this as a solution to the problem concerning the differences between chapter one and two (first account and second account).

                  You still have these problems:
                  • birds and animals made before the male and female adam (first account).
                  • the man adam is made, then the birds and animals and then the woman (second account).
                  • both male and female adam told to rule over the animals and birds (first account)
                  • the birds and animals are made as a helpmate for the man adam, but the birds and animals fail in the role of helpmate so then a woman is made (second account).

                  I agree that there are times that aretz is to be translated as "land" instead of "earth", but even if you translate it as land instead of earth in Genesis 2:5-6 it does not solve the above problems.
                  Sandy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sandy,
                    I think you already know that I don't believe that the translations we have are translated properly.

                    You quoted:
                    Genesis 2
                    18) And YHUH Elohim said, It is not good the adam (man) being alone. I will make for him a help (5828) mate (5048).
                    19) And YHUH Elohim formed from the ground (adamah, same thing adam was made from) all life of the field and every bird of the heavens; and brought them to the adam to see what he would call them. And all which the adam called each living soul that was it name.
                    20) And the adam called names to all the behemah and to birds of the heavens and to every living thing of the field; but for adam there was not found a help (5828) mate (5048).
                    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                    My reply:
                    Here is how I would translate these verses:

                    Genesis 2
                    18. alas upon master YHWH Goddesses not a pleasing existence seeing blood to join therefore upon making to him wife honest fortune and 19. therefore formed YHWH goddesses out of the gas from the likeness unto Cheth the beautiful woman therefore with the likeness of flying the heavens to import these the gas from unto sight of the precious upon to him the gas from soul beast his existence therefore 20. alas harvested the gas from which death unto all the beast and from flying the heaven and unto the likeness of Cheth the beautiful woman and unto gas of not from going out assistance truthful fortune therefore

                    Shalom, Moses




                    Last edited by Moses; 03-09-2001, 11:17 AM.

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                    • #11
                      Hi Moses
                      Yes I realise the difficulty, because you have an alternate translation of which I am familiar so I can relate, but I am afraid the others here will not be able to do so.


                      Sandy

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