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  • Roman 8 v 13.

    in bible numerics
    8 - new beginnings/resurrection life
    ''for If ye live after the flesh [the adamic fallen nature]ye shall die, BUT, IF ye live thru the Spirit, do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live''
    v 14
    the result of mortifying the deeds of the body [ all carnal reasonings etc] become Led by the Spirit, they are the sons of God.

    in bible numerics 14- completed salvation/completed deliverance.

    states -ye have NOT recieved the 'spirit of bondage' Again to fear, but ye have received the SPIRIT OF ADOPTION, whereby we cry Abba Father''

    i got to thinkng about this and there has been a ''change of fathers''
    When Jesus was conceived, - His father was different than our human fathers.
    I heard it tell that a fetus receives its blood from the male side never from the female side.
    Jesus had the BLOOD OF HIS FATHER as He did not have a 'human father'.!
    The Holy Spirit was His Father. Concieved of The Spirit !
    The human fetus father has the 'spirit-of-bondage' inside that fears.
    But, a person who is led by the Spirit [meeting the conditions] becomes ADOPTED, BY ''THE SPIRIT-OF-ADOPTION''.

    'QUESTION' to think about?

    do you think, this would be the same process Jesus had =
    Jesus was the first fruit out from the womb in reality, but, there will be sons of adoption as His brethren = who shall be like Him = BY Adoption = adopted by this Spirit oF Adoption.
    Sons adopted into the same BLOODLINE as Jesus Christ. - these sons shall Be as He is! -These adopted sons, By the Spirit of adoption,-the same Spirit that raised Jesus up from the dead - SHALL QUICKEN our mortal bodies.

    this process, of the adopted sons then as the fruit-bearing of v19.

    These adopted of the Spirit, then quickened to life sons - are deliverers.
    as Christ was a deliverer.
    They deliver, others from ''groaning creation'' from that BONDAGE OF CORRUPTION, into THE GLORIOUS LIBERTY!
    according to R0ms 8 v 23
    in bible numerics
    8 - new beginnigs
    23 - death
    these first-fruits of the Spirit are waiting our adoption -to wit- the REDEMPTION of our body.

    see Revelation 19 v7 [in part]
    in bible numerics
    19 - faith
    7 - perfection.

    the Bride made herself ready-'' he that overcometh, shall inherit all things, I will be his God, and he will be My son'' - [rev 21 v 7]

  • #2
    the deliverers/made in the image of Christ

    He wrote: "In that vision which lasted all night, the most wonderful vision I ever had, in which I saw the sons of God in action all over the world, ministering to the multitudes in every tongue and nation, to all people, I saw both men and women ministering. I saw them standing, suspended in mid-air, in the midst of a busy intersection of a large city, with all traffic stopped, and thousands of people seeing them with their eyes, and hearing them with their ears, regardless of distance, and without the aid of mechanical devices. I saw them speaking to a people of one language, and in a moment's time I saw them transported to another people of another language, speaking to them in their own language, having power over all mechanical devices and natural laws, so that they could cause every activity to cease, and every eye to be fixed upon them, until their message had been delivered.

    "I saw them walk upon the water; and I saw the terror in the faces of the wicked, at the sound of their voices. I saw the professing Christians fall upon their faces in true repentance, crying out for mercy, and I saw them being genuinely converted. I saw the skeptics being convinced, and the blasphemy of the wicked, as they would rail and mock, only to be struck dumb or blind at just a word from the manifested sons and daughters of God.

    "The vision lasted all night, as in my spirit I was living in that future time, when God will be manifested in fullness in His sons and in His daughters, while my body was back there in bed alongside my wife. Sometimes the scenes would make me weep and I would sob, my body shaking violently with pain and agony, whereas another scene would cause me to laugh with holy laughter, as I witnessed the genuine repentance of the shallow Church members.

    "I'll never forget the vision of the young girl (the daughters of God) who spoke with the voice of many waters. Human language could never describe the quality of her voice. All I can say is, it was so filled with love and compassion, it would break the hardest stone, and at her command, every infirmity, every sickness, every blindness, every lameness was healed; every one was made perfectly whole, even those who had been lunatic from birth.

    "Sister Britain got no sleep that night, and finally when the dawn was ready to break, she asked me why I didn't get up and write the vision. I did try, but could not hold my hands on the keyboard of the typewriter. Some unseen force held them aloft over my head. I walked the floor and wept, and begged the Lord to permit me to write some of the visions I had seen, to preserve them in black and white. At last He did, and I wrote just a very few of the visions I had seen, for a large book could not contain them all.

    "What did the experience do for me? That vision set my soul aflame! Should I publish what I had written? What would people think of me if I did? Surely they would think me mad! I was just getting started in the writing and publishing ministry, and surely, I thought, that one message would cause all men to lose confidence in me! Finally with tears streaming, I said, I'm going to publish it, regardless of the cost. I know it's true! I know it's going to come to pass! And though all men turn against me, I'm going to publish it anyway! And so we did. We then waited anxiously to hear the reaction of the people. To our surprise, the message thrilled their hearts. THEY BELIEVED IT! They still believe it!" -end quote.
    an old prophet wrote these words.

    are they true?
    how would DELIVERANCE REALLY HAPPEN, to multitudes?


    • #3
      The Father Of Yahushua?

      Hi Lady Lucy,

      If the Holy Spirit is the Father of Messiah, then how was Yahushua made like us in every respect?:
      Hebrews 2:14-18

      14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, he also himself likewise took part of the same; that through death he might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
      15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage. (In the Matrix)
      16 For verily he took not on him the nature of angels; but he took on him the seed of Abraham.
      17 Wherefore in all things it behoved him to be made like unto his brethren, that he might be a merciful and faithful high priest in things pertaining to God, to make reconciliation for the sins of the people. (If HE indeed did overcome our common nature, then I can surely overcome also!)
      18 For in that he himself hath suffered being tempted, he is able to succour them that are tempted. (Can ELOHIM be tempted?)
      Sincerely, Ab
      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


      • #4 have you this answer?
        strange thing is Spying
        till you mentioned this i had not thought about this aspect
        Plx share what you are
        a miraclious virgin conception is not 'in every respect'' is none of us was conceived by a virgin.


        • #5

          Hi Lady Lucy,

          Here is a post I copied off the CARM Forum a number of years ago. This post will give you some indication why I believe that Joseph is the father of Messiah:
          Re: Adoption
          [ Follow Ups ] [ Post Followup ] [ Return Doctrine and Religion ]

          [ FAQ ]

          Posted by Joseph on August 29, 1998 at 23:08:21:

          In Reply to: Re: Adoption posted by Mark Mastrorilli on August 29, 1998 at 10:32:32:

          Hello Mark -

          According to Jewish Law (Halachah), blood rights are not transferred by adoption. According to Jewish Law, lineage/pedigree is transferred by bloodline exclusively through the father (Num 1:18), while Jewish identity is transferred by the mother (Ezra 10:2-3). So, the children of a Jewish father and Gentile mother are not considered to be Jewish unless they go through a conversion process, while the children of a Gentile father and Jewish mother are considered to be Jewish by birth. The implication of this relative to Jesus' genealogy via Mary is that the Davidic Covenant cannot be transferred through Mary via her line to King David.

          Now, regarding the blessing of Jacob given to Joseph's sons Menasseh and Ephraim, and his 'adopting' them. This is quite a different situation. In this case, both grandsons are actually from Jacob's 'seed', i.e., they are direct bloodline descendants of Jacob through their father Joseph (who is Jacob's natural son), so the 'adoption' here is the elevation by Jacob of Menasseh and Ephraim to the status of his own sons, thereby removing the firstborn status from the tribe of Reuben and giving it to Joseph's offspring. In Jesus' case this cannot work if Joseph was only his adoptive father and not his biological father, since there is not bloodline connection between them.

          I hope this is helpful information in your understanding of the Jewish Law as it applies to lineage and identity.


          It is really interesting to me the implications of this issue: Lineage, adoption, etc., as they relate to Messiah and to us.

          Women are always victims when their men lose wars. What should happen to the children fathered by the conquerors? They are considered Jewish if the mother is Jewish, if not, then they are considered to be gentiles even if the father happened to be Jewish.

          So, if the Holy Spirit is the father of Yahushua, then Yahushua has a Jewish identity through his mother, Mary, but Yahushua then lacks a bloodline that connects him to both Abraham and to David. Why is this important?

          Well, the promises were made to Abraham and to the Seed from Abraham's own loins (Genesis 15:4-6, Galatians 3:16). Paul argues in Galatians that "Seed" is a singular word, and that this word, Seed, refers directly to Messiah. The implication here is that Abraham is the father of the Seed. If the Holy Spirit is the father of Messiah, then this direct relationship or bloodline with Abraham is lost.

          The same holds true with King David. YAHWEH promised David:
          2 Samuel 7:12

          12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
          This Seed is also singular and this Seed also refers to Messiah.

          Paul further states that all the promises of ELOHIM have their "yes" in Messiah (2 Corinthians 1:20). The implication of the promises is that Messiah will be both a son of Abraham and a son of David with a clear descent of father to son. If anyone should argue that the physical fathers do not count in these promises, then Messiah loses his identity because of Ruth who was a gentile convert, but as it is, Messiah is still directly connected to Abraham and to David through Boaz. So, father to son descent are of critical importance and are not to be ignored as we hold ELOHIM to HIS promises!

          Who then is the father of Yahushua? It is as it was supposed. Joseph is the father of Yahushua. The Holy Spirit took sperm or seed from Joseph and impregnated Mary with that seed. Mary was a virgin, and then she gave birth to a savior and champion who was indeed made like us in every respect!

          Sincerely, Ab
          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


          • #6
            Hello Spying
            thanks for the mind bender

            but, i cannot handle that thought!

            i cannot adjust to that thinking even though i can see there is a 'contraction' somehow....i was ok with this opinion, till i remembered luke 3 v 23.
            it was there i crashed and could not reconcile to that theory.

            ''and Jesus Himself began, to be about 30yrs of age being [AS WAS SUPPOSED]The son of Joseph, which was the son of Heli...etc......

            if the Holy Spirit wrote the bible by inspired men, why would he place these 3 words here = AS.. WAS... SUPPOSED!

            meaning all people who knew of Jesus , supposed He WAS Joseph's natural son.

            Supposed-means there is room for error.

            back in v 22, we can see a supernatural event happening, the descent of the Holy Spirit [ shaped like a dove] the Voice that came from heaven saying '' THOU art My Beloved Son, in Thee I am well pleased''

            here are 2 ''fathers''

            the real-voice = speaking from heaven
            and the supposed.= whom the crowds supposed was Jesus father =

            I feel I cannot join the ranks of the ''supposed'' crowd, but as His People I have to KNOW FOR SURE, who Jesus Christ is.

            so i have to say, Joseph was never the natural father of Jesus Christ,based upon the above bible evidence!
            IF Joseph's sperm was supernaturally co-joined in a virgin womb, the holy Spirit would be lying, as He inspired the quote'' as was supposed'' un-necessarily.
            again to have a 2nd witness i find in luke 2 v 33 and Luke 2 v 43 and interesting family description part...''Jesus tarried behind in Jerusalem, and Joseph and HIS MOTHER knew not of it''.

            Joseph is left out from an intimacy....not His Father and His mother - denoting family ties.
            twice this sentence/words are used... namely ''Joseph and HIS mother''

            next question..
            who is Adam's mother!!!!


            • #7

              Abba, does not need many, to conquer whole armies. Jud.7.v.7 - is 300 men filled with faith, unity of Spirit.
              the power lies in the unity of purpose.
              sometimes we read in the newspaper of '' an event'' in the heavens, and it is when planets all line up....people rush out to look in the evening sky, and wonder at this 'event' as some marvel they just have to see.
              another example
              is the moon is placed 216,000 miles from earth, and has a dia. of 2,160 miles....
              all wonder things, we cannot imagine are around us....
              how much more wonderous shall His stars be as they co-join and align to form His purpose - the release of all groaning creation.
              Our minds, are now being altered, the human carnality removed, so that all our corruption ceases and we are set free, By His truth and how this truth works inside us.


              • #8
                The Mother Of All The Living!

                Hi Lady Lucy,
                John 8:32

                32 And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.
                If we are to break free and burst asunder the bonds which do enslave us, overcoming the giants within our land by learning to fly, then we must fight through the lies and deception designed to trick us concerning our potential.

                Did Messiah Yahushua teach us how to fish or does Messiah continually fish for us? Was Messiah the captain of our salvation to supply us with everything we need concerning salvation or does Messiah lead us in the way of salvation? Why should I take heart in a leader who does not believe in me? Will I learn to believe in myself or believe in you or other brothers and sisters with such a leader? Never! That is exactly what happens when we are led to believe that Messiah is anything more than just a man, and remember that this comes from the one who formerly was convinced that you yourself were a man. (ha, so I have indeed been proven mistaken in the past!)

                Christianity actually believes that the Holy Spirit was the Seed that impregnated the egg of Mary resulting in a Godman. This requires that I believe that ELOHIM had sex with Mary in some spiritual or mystical fashion. This would be very similar to what occurred with the daughters of men and the Sons of ELOHIM (Genesis 6:4) and the resulting Nefeel who were giants, i.e. bullies or tyrants. Is Messiah of the Nefeel? No, Messiah was the Son of Man!

                Isaac was conceived in a miraculous manner and so was Messiah, and both are sons of Abraham.

                I believe that Messiah Yahushua is the Mother of All the Living so Adam is born from his flesh!

                Sincerely, Ab
                The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                • #9
                  Hello spying,
                  you are really taxing my mind here
                  so that i get this clear in my mind what u are posting is

                  Jesus was a fetus, divinely conceived, but still Jospeh's child?

                  somehow Mary was impregnated without sex with Joseph.?

                  she never knew man, yet became pregnant...... but.... this child was not holy as the son of God, with the Holy Spirit as His Father.

                  So, - in type Jesus was the same type of child [miraclously conceived] as Isaac.-just a human being without divinity.

                  have i got this assessment correct?


                  • #10
                    cont...bear with me Spying plz!

                    Originally posted by LucySmith
                    Hello spying,
                    you are really taxing my mind here
                    so that i get this clear in my mind what u are posting is

                    Jesus was a fetus, divinely conceived, but still Jospeh's child?

                    somehow Mary was impregnated without sex with Joseph.?

                    she never knew man, yet became pregnant...... but.... this child was not holy as the son of God, with the Holy Spirit as His Father.

                    So, - in type Jesus was the same type of child [miraclously conceived] as Isaac.-just a human being without divinity.

                    have i got this assessment correct?
                    have patience plx with me as i consider this and use bible reasoning


                    the bible says 'Joseph and HIS mother'.
                    I feel there is a separating there as it is not a normal figure of speech.
                    why did the Holy Spirit inspire men to write this way about a family if this was a normal unified family.
                    Joseph is on the outside, [kinda left out and alone]
                    His Mother and Jesus - are united from the way these few words are structure.
                    Concerning Jesus, Luke 3.v.23 states,
                    "being (as was supposed) the son of Joseph."
                    In two different verses
                    (Luke 2:33, 43), the text of scripture refers to the earthly parents of
                    Jesus as "Joseph and His mother." This clearly denies the physical
                    parentage of Joseph.

                    also notice in Math 1
                    if Joseph, was the natural flesh father, [ rather than the legal father] what of the Jeconiah Curse ? [v 11.]
                    in the Joseph genealogy is a man named Jeconiah. God cursed Jeconiah (also called Coniah), stating that no descendant of his would ever sit on the throne of David, "For no man of his descendants will prosper sitting on the throne of David or ruling again in Judah," (Jer. 22:30]
                    Notice If Jesus had of been Joseph's flesh son, He could never occupy that Throne, for God's word had barred the way. There had been a curse put on this royal line since the days of Jeconiah.
                    Joseph was in line of this curse..The point is that Jesus is not a biological descendant of Jeconiah, but through the other lineage -- that of Mary. Hence, the prophetic curse upon Jeconiah stands inviolate.
                    in luke 3 we have Mary's line,back to David thru Nathan, not Jeconiah.
                    [lk 3 v 31]Nathan was
                    a younger brother of Solomon, being born to David and Bathsheba. So,
                    although the Luke genealogy is traced through David, it avoids the cursed
                    line of Jechonias. Jesus was of the legal line of David through His
                    mother's husband, Joseph. However, He was not of the seed of Coniah
                    (Jechonias). He was not biologically of the cursed line.

                    Mary is called ''the virgin'' 5 times in the bible.
                    IN Mk.6.v.3.... in part saying. "Is not this the carpenter,... the son of Mary.
                    Joseph is not even mentioned as Jesus is called "the son of Mary", not their "oldest son".
                    At, the last crucial moment Joseph becomes the husband of Mary, Jesus is referred to as incarnate. and not Joseph's son.- the angel of the Lord – a euphemism for God – tells Joseph not to put Mary away: “Joseph, son of David, do not be afraid to take Mary as your wife, for the child conceived in her is from the Holy Spirit.”
                    why was Joseph not told =his sperm would supernaturally be given to Mary with the sex-act via the Holy Spirit? It would have saved this poor guy a heap of worry and after all, if we use the parallel of Isaac and his supernatural conception both parents KNEW prior to his birth, they would have a son of promise.
                    in Lk 2 v 48... we do have a verse, here worthy of consideration

                    ''and when they saw Him, they were amazed and His mother said ''Son,why hast thou dealt with us? Behold thy father and i have sought thee sorrowing''
                    but now Jesus says. v 49
                    ''and He said unto them How is it, that ye sought Me,? wist ye not,that I must be about My Father's business''.

                    notice... these are the 1st recorded words of Jesus and ofcourse ref to Ps 40.v.5-11
                    so again we see 2 fathers...
                    the legal
                    the divine
                    after considering your post Spying
                    I feel i have to stay with the idea Jesus was not any ordinary person, nor conceived by Jospeh's sperm impregnating MARY somehow. I shall stay thinking Jesus is God's Son from His loins,[Son of God, /Son of man] co-joined for a divine mission, till the Holy Spirit convinces me otherwise amen


                    • #11
                      The Son Of Woman?

                      Hi Lady Lucy,

                      Yes, you have restated exactly what I am saying about the lineage of Yahushua.

                      Now, please also be patient with me. How is Yahushua "the Son of the Man if he is only the Son of Woman? Are you saying that "the Son of the Man" comes from the union of Holy Spirit and a woman? Holy Spirit is not a man, and neither does a woman by herself have the capacity to produce offspring. From whence or whom did Messiah receive his maleness, and who is "the Man" that Messiah claims to be "the Son" of?

                      Thummim used the same argument about the curse of Jeconiah, and Beseder tendered a reasonable counterargument. I have yet to give my reply. You are not going to let me off the hook here, are you?

                      More later.

                      Sincerely, Ab
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                      • #12
                        dearest Spying, you are putting up a good fight i do admit but i am not convinced...

                        and my brain only will go to
                        Son of God/ son of man.-diety-human co-joined.

                        Thummim used the same argument about the curse of Jeconiah,
                        personally i believe that is an awefully good point, and the ''buck stops right there''......

                        perhaps i can be like a sailing ship and try another tact...

                        let us suppose you are correct... AND I LOVE HOW YOU ARE CORRECT, in so many us consider this tact...

                        IF Joseph was the natural father...Jesus being The son of his flesh.
                        Jesus would then have been ''a sinner'', birthed into sin, as His bloodline, was coming up from Adam.-a human being - perhaps, a miracle birth but still the same as Isaac.-fully human carrying the adamic fallen nature.

                        now i am veering off here Spying but only yesterday i was reading about Plasma, electro-magnitic waves, DNA and blood-iron-cells...
                        these items,were all related to death/Tree of Good and Evil, as these blood-iron cells mutated our original DNA strands.

                        The author went on and on about death/fallen nature and how our DNA is like a nuclear-bomb radiation mutation.-it was awesomely interesting to read...
                        sin is just not a small thing, but a realm of utter mutation., and no-one escapes from the laws of sin and death.

                        [ps... i put this in the ''oh! thats interesting department only'' -plx have a read of it and let it 'hang on ya ear''.. as i am not endorsing this work, as ''Gospel'', but this author seems to have found out some rather interesting facts we dont fully understand as yet]

                        now back to Roms 8 v 13...
                        we see that ALL of creation has been subjected to vanity and is groaning waiting to be released...therefore, if Jesus was the miracle-birth but natural child of Joseph and Mary...He would have belonged to vanity/groaning creation and unable to escape Himself, and could not be a releasee,however much He wished too!

                        john 3 v 16... to me as a clear indication of the parentage of Jesus..

                        ''For God, so love this world, that HE GAVE, HIS ONLY BEGOTTEN SON''.... etc...
                        to me this word ''''''ONLY''''''' speaks volumns.

                        NO Spying, i still remain unconvinced... that Jesus was only human and un-divine...
                        Last edited by LucySmith; 01-15-2006, 09:51 PM.


                        • #13
                          nothing like a day at the beach, to blow all cobwebs away

                          today i was in the sun and the sand and the pacific ocean winds blowing across my face, The tide was out and the surfers were numerous and it was just ONE AWESOME DAY.
                          I sat under a huge Norfoke Is Pine tree and watched everything happening around me and I could not help thinking just how beautifull the day was and how organised this world is and we dont even appreciate NATURE and how it all works in balance.
                          Then i got to thinking how it would be if all evil suddenly vanished,just one big POOFFFFFF and everything was reconciled to everything else.
                          I was wondering about this and the Lord said into my heart...'' the evil has to disappear in you first''....
                          we kinda think we can rush off into the blue and heal and cure things and make things better CUZ WE ARE 'CHRISTIAN''... most times this never happens, cuz we have not been healed ourselves....a slave cannot free another slave can they?
                          Manifesting Christ, we are to become CHRIST IN US, ourselves... the power of God has to 1st established in us. WE HAVE TO BECOME SPIRIT FIRST people then soul and then body people.
                          As it stands at the moment most people are body and soul... and a tiny spirit that fails the spiritual test.
                          Well anyways I was looking that the Pacific Ocean, how it changes with the days.. it is never the same,... something is always very different about the ocean/seas, that is why people love to live beside the sea... It changes daily and is never boring to watch.
                          and the smell... I love its smell, the salt... is an amazing smelly thing.. i ALWAYS THINK,'' if anyone lived by the sea, no one would be sick, for just living on the sea-smell would heal them of everything.''
                          The Lord says His people should be as ''salt''.
                          at this point, I KNEW, HIS PEOPLE, are in training to hold His Spirit, His Spirit is the power to change, and go into a HOLY unlimitedness.
                          but, His Spirit will only grow in us, as we change our thinking pattern and give up our own ways of thinking and understanding, -This change over makes us as SALT and this 'salt'' is so beneficial to all who smell it.
                          His Spirit has to rise up In us, and this will only ever happen as we bow/submit to the Truth, over and above the human reasonings of men.
                          We have to be lifted out from this secondary world [the re=newing of our mind] and enter into the real world,

                          Father Abba has to say to us ''WELCOME TO THE REAL WORLD''...

                          so that we can benefit all mankind, Thru His ministry flowing out from us


                          • #14
                            I Will Be There For You!

                            Hi Lady Lucy,

                            I have no heart to convince you otherwise than you are already convinced. You are holding fast to a doctrine that is the backbone of Trinitarianism, and I am against Trinitarianism. So, what should I do? Perhaps, I should change your name to Trinity?

                            I have learned that knowledge fails us in many ways. I have already forgotten so many good arguments, and I continue to live just fine without remembering them (While my desk and room are cluttered, my mind is not). I have also found myself to be wrong in my thinking at all times. So my knowledge is imperfect, and it may always be imperfect. I may be forced to depend upon my brothers and sisters for perfection so I have great need of their knowledge and experience.

                            This is what is important to me: The ELOHIM are important to me. When I first stepped forward to publicly write about LIFE NOW in an aggressive manner, you were the first to really lend your voice to mine, and I could tell that you were ahead of me in overcoming. You cannot be in the tradition of overcoming unless you have learned from Messiah. Messiah is in charge of your learning, not I. Messiah is in charge of your progression, not I. So, Trinity, why should I judge Messiah? Both of you are too important to me!

                            Now, if your belief leads to wrong action, and everything begins with belief, then I have a duty to judge the action with the hope of saving your life. Even so, I am also forced to acknowledge that wrong belief can lead to right action; otherwise, I am right now surely dead as I have already admitted that I have found myself to be thinking wrongly at all times.

                            Do I have a bottom line about belief? Yes, I do. LIFE NOW and overcoming are my bottom line. So, Lady Lucy, I am blessed to be with you and others at Messiah's foundation!

                            Accordingly, I may yet write against what you believe, but please understand the spirit in which I do write. You need not change your beliefs for me in order to have my unqualified support in LIFE NOW and in overcoming. I will be there for you!

                            Sincerely, Ab
                            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                            • #15
                              i do not believe any man, only as the Holy Spirit will lead

                              Spying, Thank you for your courtesy

                              in your post u mentioned my overcoming...
                              Ah overcoming...All things In Christ...learning it daily.

                              It is very difficult thing,
                              not to use the flesh for our props simply resting in the Lord and leaning not upon our own understanding, over many situations in our lives.

                              My self-pity wells up in me as i think back to many awfull spiritual earthquakes that surround me and i am alone with my mind battles, as personal attacks/battles seem to overwhelm me so badly at times...but....can i go back to be religious like most people, or do i press forewards by leaning how to become a living sacrifice, no longer my own but counting the cost and bought at a price...and just a vessel to be used by My King and His Glory.
                              In the heat of the battle...i really do wonder this.....

                              does 'belief' in some trinity save me?
                              does 'belief' in Joseph's fatherhood of Christ rush to my rescue if i think of him?
                              does misunderstood bible doctrines swamp me as tears stream out from my eyes in great grief in indecission, over life threatening circumstances?

                              i can only think of my woe,
                              sometimes the grief is to hard to bear, and in this state would i think about Joseph..
                              like ''who cares about Joseph's fatherhood i sure dont,''
                              '' will this thought about Joseph's fatherhood save me from my flesh and my problem?
                              like WHAT ACTUALLY ....SAVES ME.... AND MAKES me ''WELL PLEASING TO MY SAVIOUR?''
                              WHAT makes the laws of sin and death [that try to swallow me up and kill me and my family] receed and move backwards from my life?

                              does believing Joseph is Christ's father do the trick?
                     my battling...i am sorry to say... it failed the test.

                              yesterday was a real hard day for me, from early morning even till now i am battling my flesh man over a hard problem i have ,...
                              what am i to do Spying?

                              what belief do i cling too ?
                              what doctrine saves me from death?????
                              what lesson breaks my yoke of slavery to that tree of good and evil??????
                              WELL.. i do what i have done for over 16yrs....

                              Actually you would think i would have it all ''together'' after so many practice runs hey????

                              perhaps i am a dull slow learner, or maybe the tests become harder....
                              who knows!!!
                              i do what i have done in the past...
                              i TRUST IN HIM FOR MY NEED...Ps23
                              I make HIM, my refuge and my strength, Ps 91
                              I place my spirit into His loving care and at this point, frankly, i dont give one hoot in hell if Joseph is or isnt Christ's father.


                              MY NEED OF Jesus Christ and all His saving power towards me IS TOO GREAT,
                              MY NEED FOR real life SALVATION and true FREEDOM AND LIBERTY IS REAL,
                              MY NEED FOR BEING RELEASED from evil IS DIRE...
                              i fall back into walking as He walked doing only the things that pleased His Father..
                              I am in training to do this Spying, trained up, not to believe the flesh nor all manner of religion, but cling too His spiritual truths that stop my carnal mind from killing me.

                              do you remember in the first film of the Matrix,
                              Neo seems to run away from Mr smith and his brand of evil.
                              Neo... out runs them each time ofcourse, but he is still running AWAY FROM all the evil that surrounds him and trying to kill him.

                              but... there comes a time when NEO, did not have to run away any more from evil that surrounded him,

                              Neo stood there UNMOVED, by any threats against him...
                              that day.. he had learnt something vital...
                              HE HAD STOPPED RUNNING AWAY!
                              he had LEARNT HOW TO STAND IN THE EVIL DAY.
                              when he did... it was evil who started to be afraid, evil was on the back foot, moving away from Neo...evil fled.


                              to edify a person spiritually,
                              to uplift them
                              we have to stop with religion and make THE TRUTH become ALIVE 'in' us.
                              the PERSON CALLED TRUTH = IS TO BE...OUR OWN LIFE,
                              WE HAVE TO STOP RUNNING AWAY, by veering off on religious tangents that are really not all that important and have THE TRUTH, fully established In our heart and life.

                              THE TRUTH, is not REALLY a belief nor a doctrine, nor a system

                              if i do this
                              i am no longer playing a role of a deceived religious harlot.


                              what I am becoming is A LIVING His temple amen.

                              a LIVING STONE, fully chipped and pruned remains UNMOVED but surrounding evil....
                              that is what is the most important thing we have to learn.
                              = - being able to stand INSIDE THE STRENGTH OF JESUS CHRIST...and watching all our enemies [even the power of death] move backwards from us in defeat.