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The Eye of the Storm Part II

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  • replied
    Hails Spying

    Very true indeed threads have a tendency to develop a life of their own. I had a discussion on another board about something similar to that and the final decision was that i am the thread killer hehe. I was amused but just a joke the same.

    When i was younger i feared the storm much like you. However since then a few things have happened to me and i haven't ever been as afraid since. In fact very little makes me feel as alive as a storm. When i was 5 i saw the inside of a funnel cloud of a tornado. It hit my house in North Carolina and i was outside watching in my own little world. Later on the fixation didn't go away but kept right on coming. Last year i was in chicago during the summer i drove up there to visit a friend. We were at the field museum viewing the Egpytian antiquities, which saddened me greatly, and when i felt the saddness a huge lake storm came up. I have no idea if the two are related but that is another matter. So to feel better i walked across the vast parking lot up to my knees in water, in the rain, with lightning hitting all around pretty much. The funny thing is that never once did i feel as though i was in danger. Who knows why. A few years before that i was at a house in rural Ga that a friend of mine owned and i was standing at a window watching a storm and all of the sudden my hair stood on end and the tree brach that was in the open window was hit by lightning. It was literally a few inches from my face. I was seered by the heat and it smelled terrible but i was alive.
    To me the greatest storm i was ever in was a thunder snow storm. It was night fall i was standing out side watching the streak lightning during the darkness and it would eluminate the snow and its vortex. It was amazing.

    Set has never been wrathful to me. If he were i would have died that day in Chicago or in North Carolina no doubt in my mind. The Gods are wrathful to men because men are ignorant and pointless in many instances. They are wrathful to each other because they are Gods they don't have to get along. Lessons taught by a storm? I think so yes but not lessons of words or of thought but of a different sort. Perhaps significance.

    Yes a storm is definetly a spiritual process. A storm comes and cleanses and destroys the old to make way for the new. It is balanced, it is the balace of creation versus destruction. Life is the storm of all men. The cross to me is more so just a symbol of a religion and an idea. The acquisition of knowledge is a storm. Because it challenges the old to with stand the onslaught or fall in the wake. If it falls in the wake then it makes way for the new. If it does not fall then it is stronger than before. All sorts of things


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  • replied
    The Perfect Storm!

    Hi Bratu,

    Thank you for your reply. It is the nature of forums that threads can also take on a life of their own which neglects the originators. I posted to you to let you know that I was thinking of you and to let you know that I myself was still engaged in the original purpose of this thread, that is, to get at, as best we can, the Eye of the Storm. For the most part, I agree with you that storms represent the wrath of the Elohim. Personally, I have always been very afraid of storms, but I must admit to a love/hate relationship to storms. I am fascinated by them, and I have great curiosity concerning them. If I could choose an occupation all over again, I think I would be a storm chaser. The perfect storm to me is the Hurricane; although, when I see a huge low pressure center circling across the upper Midwest in the winter, pulling up moist hot air from the south and cold air from the north to create a gigantic snow storm, that is a close second. They are both huge whirlwinds. I don't know if the whirlwind spoken of by Nahum refers to either. Nahum may be specifically speaking of the tornado.

    The suffering and death of Messiah Yahushua is to me the Mother of all whirlwinds and storms, and the Eye of that Storm is the Cross. There is no greater clash in my mind of love and hate, righteousness and sin, than at the Cross. The Cross is total world war that engages all of mankind and all the Elohim, and there is only one winner, and that winner is Messiah.

    Why do the Elohim have wrath against men and against each other? Has Set ever been wrathful against you to the point that he would seek your destruction through a storm? Do the Elohim use storms to teach men lessons? If so, why? Do the Elohim have their own storms?

    Do you, yourself, see a physical storm as representative of a spiritual process? The lower the pressure the higher the clouds rise, and the eye is a window to heaven. There is no balance in a storm or is there? Can you describe for me a spiritual storm that takes place in time and encompasses the lives of all men like I am working to do for you with the Cross? Have you run across anything like that in your studies?

    Have a great day, Bratu!

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    Em Hotep

    I haven't posted for a few days and was pleased to see that i wasn't completely forgotten in the thread which i help create. Funny how these things work. But by now as you can imagine i am used to it. Everywhere i go and everything i say or post, just like this spawns something. It creates turmoil or descrepency.

    Well Spying here is what i think.
    I rather liked the passage you picked. In that particular story i feel it was probably Yaweh who was controlling the storm. I in reality feel that Set or the abstract which i call Set, controls the storm. Since the dawn of man the storm has been the wrath of the Gods.
    For instance in Ancient Sumerian Enlil was the God of the storm as well. I see much likeness between Him and Set. Maybe too much. The point being that in Sumeria Enlil was the storm which was power in action. This was directly opposed to Anu or An who was power in word. Enlil was the wrath Anu was the decree.

    The storm has been and always will be the favored wrath of the Gods. Just like zeus who had his thunderbolts, Set His storm clouds, Enlil His. As to which of these i feel is more correct i think i have been over. I thank you for that passage though cause it will be added to the collection of the wrath of the Gods which i am going to compile. It will be all the instances which the thunderstorm is used as the wrath of the Gods.


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  • replied
    The Eye of the Storm!

    Hi Bratu,

    Did you happen to notice how Nahum states that YAHWEH controls the storm in this scripture?:
    Nahum 1:3
    3 The YAHWEH is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the YAHWEH hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (KJV)
    I consider the suffering and death of Messiah Yahushua to be the Eye of the Storm:
    Mark 15:33
    33 And when the sixth hour was come, there was darkness over the whole land until the ninth hour. (KJV)
    Who was in control of this storm that is the center of the whirlwind, YAHWEH or Set?

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    I definitely believe in the cleansing, but I do not believe that the Greek Scriptures represent that cleansing. There are a number of reasons why I feel this way. I will point out only a few.
    • I find the Greek Scriptures in opposition to the Hebrew Scriptures. I feel it is a book of plagiarism.
    • I feel there is a very good possibility that Iesous/Jesus/Yeshua was married to Mary Magdalene and had children.
    • I feel that it is highly possible that Iesous did not die on the stake, but was removed before he died.

    But the main and most important reason is that the Christos of the Greek Scriptures does not fulfill the roll of YHUH'S messiah as set forth in the Hebrew Scriptures.

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  • replied
    From Red to Gray!

    Hi Sandy,

    My considerations are my considerations. They are not arbitrary. They are based upon considering your reactions and your arguments. If I am wrong in my considerations, then I owe you an apology. It is possible that I am wrong, but I hope for your sake that I am not. If I am wrong, then the path that you are following is exceedingly deliberate and devious and not childlike.

    Yes, with respect to the mysteries of ELOHIM I am also very childlike. I am always reaching out in wonderment. Most of the time, I feel like a toddler set free in a candy store, and I do admit to a problem of focus. There are so many good things to examine. There are a great many "here" and "there" items.

    Your position before YAHWEH ELOHIM is one of cleanness despite your arguments to the contrary (Your denial of the New Covenant). Through the suffering of Messiah Yahushua, you have been made clean, and I will endeavor to show you how; eventhough, much of this cleansing process remains a mystery to me.

    You have already seen that the burning of the Red Heifer reduces the Heifer to ashes. These ashes are called "dust" in Numbers 19:17. In actual practice, the Jews pulverized the ashes to make them "dust" before the ashes were deposited in a clean place. I have worked with concrete most of my life. It is a wonderful product. When I consider the "dust" of the Red Heifer, I can't help but think of cement and the process by which cement is manufactured. Both the "dust" of the Red Heifer and cement are refined products that have endured extreme temperatures. They both begin as clay. Both are burned while other ingredients are added in the refining process. With both, in the end, you have a product that is capable of some amazing things. Consider the "dust" of the Heifer. It has been rendered totally dry. It has no moisture. If you touch it in any fashion, it makes you unclean. However, if one is sprinkled with this dust combined with water, the dust has the power to cleanse. The Jews could never understand how the same product could both cleanse and defile. There seems to be no logic that can be applied to understanding this "dust" in a physical sense.

    The ultimate purifier is fire. Fire does cleanse. Things that burn do go through a transformation. What begins as a Heifer, ends as dust. Now, if the Tzaddikim are right about this Heifer, namely, that the Messiah Yahushua is the Red Heifer, and that the suffering and death of Messiah is synonymous with the burning of the Heifer, what possible benefit could this have for any of us if all water (life) is removed from Messiah who himself was clean in the first place (a Heifer without spot or blemish)? How could his death cleanse anyone else? Now, we are forced to answer that question because YAHWEH does consider all mankind as being cleansed through the death of Messiah (Acts 10:28). The Christian world teaches that this cleansing is substitutional. They believe that Messiah was cleansed (punished and purged of life) in our stead so that YAHWEH ELOHIM could apply this cleansing to each of us in order to declare us clean. In other words, YAHWEH must, in some manner, be using Messiah's death as a filter or screen with which to cover mankind so that YAHWEH does not see our uncleanness. So, according to Christianity, the transformation in the burning of the Heifer only takes place in the body of Messiah who went from life to death and in the mind of YAHWEH who now, for the sake of Messiah, looks upon a defiled and unclean world as being clean. In other words, YAHWEH is playing mind games with HIMSELF. The Tzaddikim, in no uncertain terms, deny all such teaching.

    If you really begin to look at the process of purification, Sandy, you will notice a lot of instruction concerning what YAHWEH requires. YAHWEH requires that three ingredients be added to the burning of the Heifer: Cedarwood, scarlet, and hyssop. Now, I know full well that you don't like to engage in this sort of thing, but do you think that these three ingredients might be important in understanding the exact nature of the refined "dust" that the Law commands must later be used to separate Israel from their sin and the defilement of death? The Law does also make requirements concerning the killing, the burning, the gathering of the Ashes, the depositing of the Ashes, the hydration of the Ashes, and the sprinkling of the Ashes. Do you think that these things may be important in understanding how the same Ashes can both cleanse and defile? Do you think that these things may be important in understanding how YAHWEH does now look upon the world as actually being clean?

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    You wrote:
    There is a great secret in the word, "dust":
    You seem to make everything out as a secret or a mystery or spiritual. Therefore because I see things different from you, you consider me immature in my understanding. Your opinion is not what counts. What counts is our standing before the MOST HIGH.

    You wrote:
    Num 19:17
    17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the "ashes" (aphar) of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: (KJV)
    So now it is just running water and not living water?

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  • replied

    Hi Sandy,

    When did I say that "abaq" and "aphar" were the same word? What are you questioning here, Sandy? Are you questioning whether clouds are made of dust particles?

    Here is the full Strong's definition for "abaq" which is the modern day Hebrew word that is used for the "dust" on funiture etc.:
    80 'abaq (aw-bawk');

    from root of 79; light particles (as volatile):

    KJV-- (small) dust, powder.
    Here is the full definition for "aphar":
    6083 `aphar (aw-fawr');

    from 6080; dust (as powdered or gray); hence, clay, earth, mud:

    KJV-- ashes, dust, earth, ground, morter, powder, rubbish.
    ***. `Aphrah. See 1036.
    How does YAHWEH teach?:
    Isa 28:9-11
    9 Whom shall he teach knowledge? and whom shall he make to understand doctrine? them that are weaned from the milk, and drawn from the breasts.
    10 For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:
    11 For with stammering lips and another tongue will he speak to this people. (KJV)
    To me the use of "abaq" and "aphar" right here is nothing more than here a little, and there a little. To you, my use is a contradiction. You are betraying your age, Sandy! Consider how Isaiah uses "abaq":
    Isa 5:24-26
    24 Therefore as the fire devoureth the stubble, and the flame consumeth the chaff, so their root shall be as rottenness, and their blossom shall go up as dust: because they have cast away the law of the YAHWEH of hosts, and despised the word of the Holy One of Israel.
    25 Therefore is the anger of the YAHWEH kindled against his people, and he hath stretched forth his hand against them, and hath smitten them: and the hills did tremble, and their carcases were torn in the midst of the streets. For all this his anger is not turned away, but his hand is stretched out still.
    26 And he will lift up an ensign to the nations from far, and will hiss unto them from the end of the earth: and, behold, they shall come with speed swiftly: (KJV)
    Do you see no relationship between the above verses and Messiah's statement?:
    Matt 24:30-31
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
    31 And he shall send his angels with a great sound of a trumpet, and they shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other. (KJV)
    Consider this statement of Isaiah:
    Isa 29:4-6
    4 And thou shalt be brought down, and shalt speak out of the ground, and thy speech shall be low out of the dust (aphar), and thy voice shall be, as of one that hath a familiar spirit, out of the ground, and thy speech shall whisper out of the dust (aphar).
    5 Moreover the multitude of thy strangers shall be like small dust (abaq), and the multitude of the terrible ones shall be as chaff that passeth away: yea, it shall be at an instant suddenly.
    6 Thou shalt be visited of the YAHWEH of hosts with thunder, and with earthquake, and great noise, with storm and tempest, and the flame of devouring fire. (KJV)
    I see the Cross of Messiah Yahushua in the above statement. There is a great secret in the word, "dust":
    Num 19:17
    17 And for an unclean person they shall take of the ashes (aphar) of the burnt heifer of purification for sin, and running water shall be put thereto in a vessel: (KJV)
    For our cleansing, Sandy.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    Yes the KJV uses the English word dust in its translation of Genesis 2:7, 3:19 and Nahum 1:3, but if you look at the Hebrew words you will find they are not the same and do not have the same meaning.

    'abaq is the Hebrew word translated as dust in Nahum 1:3. It is # 80 in Strong's concordance, which says it means:
    light particles (as volatile).
    'aphar is the Hebrew word translated dust in Genesis 2:7 and 3:19. It is # 6083 in Strong's Concordance, which says it means:
    dust (as powdered or gray); hence clay, earth, mud.
    The one has nothing to do with the other.

    Your theory concerning our body is a perversion as far as I am concerned.

    You have taken Psalm 44:25-26 out of its context to further your theory. And also by your theory you seek to make null and void the word of YHUH concerning the promises made to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (Israel).

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  • replied
    Owning your Land!

    Hi Sandy,

    Changing minds (converting minds) is the responsibility of YAHWEH. Eventually, almost all are converted. Messiah said:
    Matt 24:30
    30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory. (KJV)
    The clouds are the dust of his feet. As it is written,
    Nahum 1:3
    3 The YAHWEH is slow to anger, and great in power, and will not at all acquit the wicked: the YAHWEH hath his way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of his feet. (KJV)
    One thing is certain, Sandy, you and I are dust. As it is written:
    Gen 3:19
    19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. (KJV)
    Man is formed ground:
    Gen 2:7
    7 And the YAHWEH ELOHIM formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. (KJV)
    Your body is the Land that you do inhabit. Right now, you have absolutely no control or ownership of the very ground that you are made of, and yet, you would run to and fro, back and forth, striving to temporarily own and control a piece of ground outside of yourself that you and others will never truly own and control. As it is written:
    Ps 44:25-26
    25 For our soul is bowed down to the dust: our belly cleaveth unto the earth.
    26 Arise for our help, and redeem us for thy mercies' sake.
    Open you eyes! If you have no permanent control over the ground that you presently inhabit, why do you persist to covet a land outside of yourself given to another? Each day almost, someone fights and dies for that land. They have no perception. Why give up the good dust which you have been blessed to inhabit (your body) for the hope of only temporary ownership of land that will be inhabited by others (future generations) after your death? We must strive for permanent ownership, Sandy. This is a fight already fought and won by Messiah Yahushua. He has inherited the Land of His sojourning. Through His resurrection, He possesses all the Land. There is nothing outside of his control. You have no promise of inhabiting any of His land except through repentance, and through repentance you can also inherit the Land of your sojourning which Messiah does now also own, your body.

    So, again, Sandy, you have a clear choice: You can hope to physically occupy the Land of Palestine under the control of Jew or Gentile, it makes no difference, until the day you die, until the day that your soul is required of you, and you lose your land and bow down to the dust, or you can hope through Messiah Yahushua to rise above and permanently own and occupy the Land in which you presently reside, your body. Which do you choose?

    Have a good Sabbath Daylight, Sandy!

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    Spying, you will never change my mind. I do not believe the Greek Scriptures (New Testament) are the New Covenant.

    I believe the things taking place in Israel in these present times are just further proof that the Greek Scriptures are not the New Covenant.

    As to Palestine it is only a small portion of the land promised to the nation of Israel.

    The Hebrew Scriptures contain an abundance of symbolism NOT spiritualism.

    So just because symbols and allegories are used concerning a new heart and a new spirit, etc., etc., that does not take away from the realness of the land and the Covenant. The Hebrew Scriptures make it very clear that YHUH'S people will possess the land as promised. YHUH is going to gather them out of all the places where he has scattered them and RETURN them to real physical land just as he promised.

    Jeremiah 23
    3) I will gather my flock out of all the lands where I have driven them, and will AGAIN bring them to their fold.

    Jeremiah 24
    6) For I will set my eyes on them for good and I will bring them again to this land, and I will build them and not tear down; and I will plant them and will not pluck up.

    Jeremiah 29
    14) ...And I will turn away your captivity and I will gather you from all the nations and from all the places, there where I have driven you, says YHUH. And I will AGAIN gather you into the place FROM which I exiled you.

    Jeremiah 30
    3) ...and I will bring them back to the land THAT I GAVE TO THEIR FOREFATHERS AND THEY SHALL POSSESS IT.

    Jeremiah 32
    37) Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands where I have driven them in my anger...and I will AGAIN bring them to this place and I will make them live in safety.
    41) ...and I will truly plant them in this land with all my heart and soul.

    Ezekiel 20
    34) And I will bring you out from the people and gather you from the lands in which you are scattered.
    37) And I will cause you pass to under the rod, and I will bring you into the bond of the Covenant.

    Ezekiel 37
    12) Behold, I will open your graves and cause you to come up out of your graves, my people, and will bring you to the land of Israel.
    14) And I will put my spirit in you and you will live. And I will put you on your own land.

    Amos 9
    15) And I will plant them on their land and they will not be uprooted again from their land which I have given to them, says YHUH.
    With whom is the Covenant made and who will possess the land? Of course it is the nation of Israel; YHUH'S people, his special possession. The Covenant and the land of promise is not made with all the people on the earth. The nation of Israel will dwell there and the ruler/messiah whom YHUH will raise up from the line of David will rule and reign.

    There is provision for those who wish to dwell among the sons of Israel as indicated here in Ezekel:

    Ezekiel 47
    21) And you shall divide this land for yourselves by the tribes of Israel.
    22) And it will be, you shall make it fall by lot for a possession to yourselves, and to the sojourner who dwells among you, who shall father sons among you. They shall be to you as native-born among the sons of Israel. They shall be allotted a possession among the tribes of Israel.
    When Israel is permently planted back in the land and messiah is ruling and reigning, then YHUH'S Torah (instructions) will go forth from Zion in the land of Israel to all nations. As to exactly what that will entail, I do not know.

    Micah 4
    1) And it shall be in the end of the days, the mountain of the House of YHUH shall be established on the top of the mountains and it shall be lifted up from the hills; and people shall flow on it.
    2) And many nations shall come and say, Come, Let us go up to the mountain of YHUH, and to the house of the Elohy of Jacob. And he will teach us his ways and we will walk in his paths. For the Torah shall go forth out of Zion and the word of YHUH from Jerusalem.

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  • replied
    Sprinkling the Unclean?

    Hi Sandy,

    Messiah Yahushua was aware of the whole context. Messiah defined the whole context and his relationship to that context in this manner:
    Matt 5:17-18
    17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
    18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. (KJV)
    The Law rules until the whole context is fulfilled. Then, and only then, is it possible that something could pass from the Law. Therefore, until the whole context is fulfilled, the Law of Purification will be in effect. That is why Ezekiel 36 speaks of sprinkling clean water. It is something that YAHWEH HIMSELF must do. WHY?

    Do you yourself actually expect to be sprinkled with physical water directly from a physical hand of YAHWEH, Sandy? Or do you allow yourself, when you contemplate the fulfillment of Ezekiel 36, the freedom to begin to think in more symbolic or spiritual terms? I know that the battle that we are fighting revolves around the manner in which the whole context is to be fulfilled. Are we to take all these things in a literal, physical sense? Or can we begin to look at these things in a symbolic or spiritual sense? We should decide which approach we are going to take, and then, be willing to stick to it.

    If both Ezekiel 36 and Jeremiah 31 are to be taken literally in a physical sense, then at some point in time a whole lot of people are going to have heart transplants, and at the same time that they are given their new hearts, YAHWEH HIMSELF, must engrave on each new heart a copy of HIS Law. Is that what you believe, Sandy? It that what you are hoping for?

    Most people when they hear about new hearts, they know what YAHWEH is really talking about, and so do you. Having that awareness, then the same people including yourself proceed to look at all the promises of being gathered to the LAND as sure proof that YAHWEH is going to physically move all of us again to reside within the physical borders of physical Palestine: The Land of Israel.

    That is what we are fighting over right now, Sandy. We are fighting over literal verses spiritual fulfillment. It is your desire to physically go back to the Land of Israel so you are working to bring about that return by supporting Jewish control of that Land. You could better facilitate that return by supporting Muslim control of the Land. Should Jews remain in control of the Land, they are not going to let you return, Sandy. Only Jews have right of return. You are a Gentile, and, as a Gentile, you have no right of return. In order to have any hope of return, you must convert to Judaism. In order to convert to Judaism, you must deny any association whatsoever with Messiah Yahushua. All these are happening in your life because you look at the promises of the Scripture completely in a physical sense.

    YAHWEH is a spirit. It all does happen from HIS HAND. I wonder how a spirit sprinkles? I wonder what a spirit sprinkles?

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    • Ezekiel 36:23-28
      23) ...and the nations will know that I am YHUH when I am made holy,
      through you (Israel), in their eyes
      24) For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands
      and bring you into your land.
      25) Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you
      will be clean
      and I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
      26) And I will also give you a new heart and I will put a new spirit within you.
      And I will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh
      and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
      27) And I will put my spirit within you and cause
      you to walk in my statutes and you will keep my judgments and do them.
      28) And you will dwell in the land that I gave to
      your forefathers. And you will be my people and I will be your Elohim.

    Spying, you are failing to look at the whole context here.
    There are a number of things that take place in the above Scriptures, not just being cleansed.

    YHUH says he will accomplish all these things:
    1. I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands,
      and bring you into your land.
    2. THEN I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you shall be clean.
    3. I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
    4. I will also give you a new heart.
    5. I will put a new spirit within you.
    6. I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
    7. I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk
      in my statutes and you shall keep my judgments and do them.
    8. you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your forefathers.
    9. you shall be my people and I will be your Elohim.

    This echoes:

    Jeremiah 31:33
    BUT THIS WILL BE the Covenant that I will cut with the House of Israel after those days,
    declares YHUH
    • I will put My Torah in their inward parts and I will write it on their hearts.
    • I will be their Elohim and they will be My people.
    • They will no longer teach each man his neighbor and each man his brother,
      saying, Know YHUH, because they will all know Me.
      From the least of them to the greatest of them...
    • I will forgive their iniquity and I will remember their sins no more.

    Jeremiah 32
    37) Behold, I will gather them out of all the lands where I have driven them in my anger
    and in my fury, in great indignation.
    And I will again bring them to this place,
    and I will make them live in safety.
    38) And they will be my people and I will be their Elohim.
    39) And I will give them one heart and one pathway,
    that they may fear me all the days,
    for good to them and to their sons after them.
    40) I will cut an everlasting covenant with them.
    I will not turn away from them, to do good them.
    I will put my fear in their heart that they will not depart from me.
    41) I will rejoice over them, to do good to them.
    I will truly plant them in this land with all my heart and with all my soul.
    42) For YHUH says,
    As I have brought all that great evil on this people,
    so I will bring on them all the good that I spoke to them.

    Ezekiel 11
    16)...Though I have sent them far off among the nations
    and scattered them among the lands,
    yet I was to them as a little sanctuary in the lands where they had gone.
    17) Therefore say, So says YHUH,
    I will gather you from the people and assemble you from out of the lands,
    in those where you were scattered;
    and I will give to you the land of Israel.
    18) And they will remove all its hateful things and all its abominations from it.
    19) I will give to them one heart and I will put a new spirit within them,
    and I will remove the stony heart out of their flesh and I will give thema heart of flesh.
    20) So that they may walk in my statutes and keep my judgments and do them.
    And they will be my people and I will be their Elohim.

    All these things go together:
    • The gathering of Israel
    • The New Covenant
    • The cleansing
    • They new heart of oneness and new spirit,
      so that they may walk in YHUH's statutes and keep his judgments and do them.

    It all goes hand-in-hand.

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  • replied
    Lawful Cleansing!

    Hi Sandy,

    I would like you to review and think through your circumstance and position. You have over and over denied the validity and the authority of the New Testament. You deny the establishment of the New Covenant; eventhough, under the New Covenant, you are already considered clean:
    Acts 10:15
    15 And the voice spake unto him again the second time,What ELOHIM hath cleansed, that call not thou common.(KJV)
    Tzaddiks like Peter and Paul understood the implications of that cleansing through Messiah Yahushua. That is why they, being Jews, were willing to take the Gospel to Gentiles. They are my elder brothers, and you have on a number of occasions spoken against and maligned Paul who did live by this faith. So, don't say that you haven't spoken against the Tzaddikim. I want you to know that I take all of this into account when dealing with you, and I do not hold your views or your criticisms against you, but I will hold your feet to the fire according to the Word.

    If you deny the cleansing of the New Testament, this scripture gives indication of your only recourse:
    Acts 10:28
    28 And he said unto them, Ye know how that it is an unlawful thing for a man that is a Jew to keep company, or come unto one of another nation; but ELOHIM hath shewed me that I should not call any man common or unclean.(KJV)
    If you deny this cleansing, then you must turn to the Law or Old Covenant. You have no other choice under the Law. For your cleansing, the Law in no uncertain terms requires that you physically go through the process of purification in order to be considered clean. If you can't, for some reason, go through this lawful process, it is not the Law's fault. It is not YAH's fault. It is not the Temple's fault. It is not the Jews' fault. It is your fault. You are unclean. No ifs, ands, and buts about it.

    This I have already in no uncertain terms pointed out to you. I see that you don't like being called "unclean". I wouldn't either, but that is exactly your position under the Law or Old Covenant which was at one time the circumstance and position that you desired for yourself. I think I have heard you mention in the past that you believed that the Hebrews Scriptures were authoritative for your life. If that is not the real way that you think, then please advise me.

    Now, by replying back to me by quoting Ezekiel 36, you show me thereby that you are now ready to cast behind your back also the Law which is the very foundation of the Hebrew Scriptures. Ezekiel cannot possibly offer an alternate way of cleansing that bypasses what the Law requires. If that is what Ezekiel does do in Ezekiel 36, then you will have to explain it to me, Sandy? You will have to explain to me how any cleansing can come which makes void the requirements of the Law? So, you still must deal with the Law. If the Law is not valid, then there is no defilement in any case. If there is no defilement, then there is no need for YAHWEH to come and cleanse you, is there? You are in a catch 22. You should not have appealed to Ezekiel. By appealing to Ezekiel, you are admitting to me that you are one of those unclean ones that YAHWEH must come and cleanse.

    So, accordingly, why should not the Tzaddikim declare you unclean, when you youself appeal to a scripture which you believe promises you cleansing sometime in the future? If you need this cleansing, you are unclean.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • replied
    Ezekiel 36:24-28
    24) For I will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands, and bring you into your land.
    25) Then I will sprinkle clean waters on you and you shall be clean. I will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
    26) And I will also give you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit within you. And I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh and I will give to you a heart of flesh.
    27) And I will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you shall keep my judgments and do them.
    28) And you shall dwell in the land that I gave to your fathers. And you shall be my people and I will be your Elohim.

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