Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Righteousness?

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • beseder
    replied
    the whole of Judaism is found within the calendar.

    Spying, if you do not study the JEWISH calendar and how it relates to all of Jewish histroy you will never understand what Thummim and I are saying.
    You'll only have an idea and a concept which is what you have now- ONLY concepts yet you miss the mark completely.

    Thummim and I are right about this- JEWS ARE FORGIVEN.

    You have concepts, ideas and not reality and practicality.
    Tell me, do YOU STILL SIN?

    by this simple answer I will know that you have attained what your preaching, this, LIFE.

    You yourself are correct about this "Life" but guess what, it is not attainable for anyone here, especially in this age. But this LIFE, that you speak of, is something that JEWS properly work for and look foward to through Tikkun which was what Yeshuah BEGAN but not finished.

    [Speaking figuratively/allegorically now:]
    The SHEMA has only been said once, and that was at the beginning of evening- now we are slowing down (laws of thermo-dynamics) and then in the morning we will rise up and say the SHEMA again-.
    As it is said by the sages, those who do not say the Shema twice do not deserve LIFE. (my paraphrase)

    This saying is said at a Rehmets level from the PaRDeS system of Hermeneutics.

    Maybe Micha'el can use deduction to understand all that I am saying here.


    shalom u'berachot,

    Poriel

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    If GD forgives, but Spying doesn't?

    ...Spying writes;

    It is very simple, Thummim: The Doing of righteousness is life. Jews have been commanded to choose life, and they all have chosen death save for Messiah Yahushua.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...GD forgave his peoples sins without a temple, or its sacrifices or offerings. He did this because he wanted to. He did it for his own sake. Why do you think that he wouldn't do so again? YHWH's peoples righteousness is his choice. If he forgives the transgressions of his people, we are righteous. But if he doesn't, we are not. The choice is obviously his. He did so before when a people left Babylon to return to Jerusalem.

    23 Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense.

    24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.

    --> Has GD forgiven unrighteousness without any temple services only because he wants to?

    25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

    ***

    22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

    23 Sing, O ye heavens; for YHWH hath done it {already}: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. Isa. 44: 22, 23

    ...GD forgives sin without a sacrifice. You assume that GD doesn't want to forgive his own peoples shortcomings, but that he wants to forgive yours. Since the JEWish people left Babylon, their sins being forgiven, where does the JEWish people pick up a fresh burden of sin? Show me where in the tanakh this transgression can be found. Show me the sin of the JEWish people that you assume us to have, that takes place AB, "after Babylon". I have a written record that the sins of the JEWish people have already been forgiven by GD. If you want to accuse all of GD's people of having offended him, you do so before GD. Do you have a charge against the Name of YaHudaH?

    ....Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    The Doing Of Righteousness Is Life!

    Hi Thummim,

    What does all of this information about the Name have to do with your life, with life for you and life for all those whom Messiah chooses through you? Not a thing! Even if another Messiah should appear to save the Jewish people from sin and death, he would have to follow the same path as Messiah Yahushua. Many have come, and no doubt many will come. These Messiahs are all slaves of iniquity, and they all go down to their graves in their sins defiled by death. Resurrection is purification from death so I will eagerly await the resurrection of anyone who has claimed or who should claim to be the savior of Jews and the light of the Nations.

    It is very simple, Thummim: The Doing of righteousness is life. Jews have been commanded to choose life, and they all have chosen death save for Messiah Yahushua.

    Now, there are many including you which deem themselves JEWS. Messiah Yahushua is the only praiser of YAH. Imitation is the purest form of praise. YAHWEH is life, and Messiah Yahushua is the only Jew who has successfully duplicated that life through death, burial, and resurrection. So, in effect, Messiah is the only JEW! Accordingly, you should now give Messiah proper praise if you yourself desire life. Why continue to deny his Name? Why continue to live the lie and die?
    Rev 3:9
    9 Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie; behold, I will make them to come and worship before thy feet, and to know that I have loved thee. (KJV)
    I am looking forward to meeting you, Thummim. Why be made to come?

    Sincerely, Ab

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    In the Name.

    ...Spying, My Name and the name of the JEWish people is GD. {That is Y*H*W*H} My name is YaHudaH. You cannot "cut off" this Name at all. GD's anger is not towards those who choose to bear his Name, but towards those JEWs who don't. "YHWH is our righteousness". This simple concept excapes you. The pillars under your messiah's feet, the texts taken from the tanakh said to be in messianic support of {Jesus}, are all corrupt. They are easily taken away from {Jesus} with a little bit of knowledge. Your messiah has no blessing for the Name of YaHudaH within him. This should tell you that he is a false messiah by itself. Don't cast off GD's Name "YHWH". This Name is the rock of David that we put our feet upon {Ex. 28: 21}. Yahudah is GD's portion among the JEWish people as Zechariah writes in Zech. 2: 12. All Yahudah will be righteous enough to need holy vessels to eat and drink from. {Zech. 14: 21} Put these things together with your spiritual wisdom. What do they say about the JEWish people?

    9 And YHWH shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be YHWH, and his name one {Name}. Zech. 14: 9

    --> "Yahudah = YaHudaH = YHWH" ... Hashem is important. It lodges in the JEWish soul.

    ...We bear the name of our Eloheem because of this relationship with GD's own Name. GD chooses a tribe among 12 to "put" his Name into {Deut. 12: 5}. That is what is written in the pages of the tanakh. Just remove the fourth letter from the name of this tribe and you will see the Name of "YHWH". The owners wrote their name on the tanakh. How do you rob us of our own name to claim JEWish salvation for yourself? "YHWH" is the everlasting life that we have in us. {assuming that we don't reject the Name of our GD}. We haven't rejected the Name of YHWH for the name of {Jesus} yet. YHWH still has his own flock.

    ...Why has it become unpopular for christians to claim that they are christians? I see this more and more often as former christians begin to examine the corruption that fills christian history.

    ....Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    Your Soul Is Required Of You!

    Hi Thummim,

    Messiah Yahushua was deemed an apostate by traditional Judaism. They to this day use his name as a cuss word and also in mocking and jest. Obviously, Messiah did not stay with traditional Judaism. He was rejected by traditional Judaism. Traditional Judaism continues to exist because they think themselves ok with ELOHIM, but Jews follow the same path as all men. They live, and then they die.

    Christianity deems itself better than Judaism. They fancy that they believe in the one who saves them; yet, they follow the same path as all Jews. They live, and then they die.

    I belong to neither traditional Judaism nor Christianity. I do not desire to live and then die. I want life. I want my inheritance. So, I am determined to walk a different path.

    I have no illusions about the course of this earthly life. I long for the life that is to come, but in the mean time, I will grasp the life that now is and fully live as Messiah has determined for me. Messiah is the life that now is, and you, my friend, will lose your life, your soul, unless you are blessed to live with him.

    Sincerely, Ab

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    Beseder!

    Hi Beseder,

    Ah, a Jew, who does not like clutter and who would have everything in seder. Your frustration is evident. No doubt, you have been studying too much Gemara.

    The seeking and finding of truth amongst men of good will is like unto mining for precious metals. We do not find precious metals lying copiously upon the surface of the earth. Nay, rather we must together dig for them. Consider the threads of Lo-Ammi as the shafts of a vast mine. We are following a certain vein which after a time begins to wear thin with little yield. Shall we cease and start a new shaft? I, for one, am one of those inclining to think that the mother lode is always an inch farther. Yes, and sometimes with pick in hand, I will work with full knowledge that Messiah has not left us alone, that he is guiding and directing us in good seder.

    Sincerely, Ab

    Leave a comment:


  • beseder
    replied
    Hi Thummim,
    yes you are correct.
    I began to put constraints
    It is a rule that I have implemented
    "from a Generality to a Particular."
    I tried to make it particular, and then ofcourse it veered off into other things.

    I guesstimated this to happen and my guesstimate proved itself.
    No matter how much one tries to keep it in one direction i believe for the moment when there is a mix of people's with different religious backgrounds this is the result- chaos.

    Thus, this is not a righteousness thread, this thread is no holds barred on topics. Related topics but it is not the road in which we began to walk on- in fact we lost the road in we we began our strole.

    Shalom u'berachot,
    Poriel

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    ...Antonio, "Righteousness" is a very big subject which would cover everything from messianic roots to Levitical law, and the topic is subject to each individuals interpretation of what he thinks he is reading from the biblical texts. We are already on the sixth page of threads related to this topic. A more specific topic would bring more specific answers. Obviously you seek to be more specific on the subject of "Righteousness". Perhaps you are just seeking to be able to give simpler answers to what you think the subject is. You began this thread without putting constraints upon the answers that we reason to give.

    ...Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • beseder
    replied
    too many topics to address here in this thread.
    It is too cluttered.

    I'll begin new threads.

    Poriel

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    Lost souls

    ...Spying writes;

    So, come, be a king with me in the Kingdom of Messiah Yahushua. We could not have a better king for he does not despise even the least in his kingdom which no doubt includes me. His mercy endureth forever as he endures forever. What greater claim could anyone possibly desire?

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...When a JEW goes off to serve other gods, he ceases to exist as a JEW. Over the millennia, JEWs have left the fold to serve other gods and ceased to be a part of the name of "Yahudah". These lost souls of Israel have no name among their former kindred. They and their children have ceased to exist as the people they once were. When a JEW decides to be anything other then a JEW, what he has chosen swallows him and his children up. This is being "lost" to me. This is loosing ones soul.

    ...When a JEW is invited to be a christian, it is the same. Many JEWs decided to be christians in the past. But where are they now? They and their JEWish children have lost there JEWish souls. They were swallowed up, never to return. Where are Paul's offspring now? Can you point them out to me. Are they JEWs now? Aren't they just a number among many christian souls, lost in a blurr of christianity? But if they had stayed JEWs, they would have at least kept there place in their GD's Name. They would have had a name of renown {YaHudaH}. When you ask a JEW to become a christian, you are really asking him {or her} to give up their JEWish soul. In a few years they will no longer remember their JEWish roots. Their children will no longer be identified with the JEWish people. The price of becoming a christian, is "becoming a christian".

    ....Michael

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    A child is born to inherit David's throne.

    9 Publish in the palaces at Ashdod, and in the palaces in the land of Egypt, and say, Assemble yourselves upon the mountains of Samaria, and behold the great tumults in the midst thereof, and the oppressed in the midst thereof. Amos 3: 9

    ***

    12 Thus saith YHWH; As the shepherd taketh out of the mouth of the lion two legs, or a piece of an ear; so shall the children of Israel be taken out that dwell in Samaria in the corner of a bed, and in Damascus in a couch. Amos 3: 12

    ***

    1 Woe to them that are at ease in Zion, and trust in the mountain of Samaria, which are named chief of the nations, to whom the house of Israel came! Amos 6: 1

    ***

    14 They that swear by the sin of Samaria, and say, Thy god, O Dan, liveth; and, The manner of Beer-sheba liveth; even they shall fall, and never rise up again. Amos 8: 14

    ***

    ...Amos writes these words in Approx 787 BCE. Samaria is Israel "the northern tribes". This is one family of the JEWish people. Judah does not escape GD's wrath, but Judah will remain another 200 years before it falls in 586 BCE. It is necessary to take account of history to completely understand the prophecies of Amos. During this time, Ahaz is the king of Judah. Jump over to Isaiah's chapter 7 and you can read of this time. What does GD say concerning the fate of Judah when Pekah and Rezin form a confederacy against Ahaz?

    _________________________________________________________

    8 For the head of Syria is Damascus, and the head of Damascus is Rezin; and within threescore and five years shall Ephraim be broken, that it be not a people.

    9 And the head of Ephraim is Samaria, and the head of Samaria is Remaliah's son. If ye will not believe, surely ye shall not be established. Isa. 7: 8, 9

    ***

    16 For before the child {Isaiah's child} shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings {Rezin and Pekah}. Isa. 7: 16
    _________________________________________________________

    ...After Babylon carries away Judah some 200 years after Amos prophesies, the return of Judah to Israel {the land} is prophecied. Judah returns to Jerusalem and to the land of Judah.

    ...Life belongs to the living! It is the living that cry out for salvation {of their lives} to their Eloheem. There is no way for {Jesus} to justly claim the throne of David. But there is a path to David's throne that exists. It comes through claiming the name of "YaHudaH". The second born child of Tamar belongs to Judah. The firstborn child belongs to Er. The second born of these two children has a red thread tied to his wrist to take the name of Judah and Judah's seed to himself. No one of Perez's seed can have a greater rite to the name of "Judah" and its throne, then this heir. It just awaits the proper time for this man to be born. He is king of Israel in this world.

    ....Michael
    Last edited by Thummim; 11-26-2004, 10:24 AM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    What Better Claim?

    Hi Thummim,

    Thank you for your response. Obviously, the physical throne or Kingdom of David no longer exists. According to your reasoning, how could any future Jewish Messiah possibly reign in a kingdom which no longer exists? At least Messiah Yahushua's kingdom does exist. Did I not tell you that Messiah reigns over me. I am very grateful to him for making me a living member of his body, and I desire to work with him in rebuilding the tabernacle of David which has fallen! As it is written:
    Amos 9:9-12
    9 For, lo, I will command, and I will sift the house of Israel (Notice Jews, that is, the House of Judah, they are not sifted; rather, they die by the sword, and such is their possession. Notice it is the House of Israel that does possess!) among all nations, like as corn is sifted in a sieve, yet shall not the least grain fall upon the earth.
    10 All the sinners of my people shall die by the sword, which say, The evil shall not overtake nor prevent us.
    11 In that day will I raise up the tabernacle of David that is fallen, and close up the breaches thereof; and I will raise up his ruins, and I will build it as in the days of old:
    12 That they may possess the remnant of Edom, and of all the heathen, which are called by my name, saith YAHWEH that doeth this.(KJV)
    The only manner in which anything can truly be possessed in this life is through life itself. No one can possess anything without life, and it is through the Kingdom which is not of this world, the spiritual tent of David, that we possess life. So, come, be a king with me in the Kingdom of Messiah Yahushua. We could not have a better king for he does not despise even the least in his kingdom which no doubt includes me. His mercy endureth forever as he endures forever. What greater claim could anyone possibly desire?

    Sincerely, Ab

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    Clones?

    ...Spying posts;

    If ELOHIM, who is a spirit, would take of your sperm and and plant that seed in the womb of your wife, when you wife conceived, would not the child be yours? This is what happened with Yahushua. Do you understand what I am saying?

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...My seed has a y chromasome. {Jesus} is virginal according to christians which is imposible. Mary + Mary = x + x chromasomes [she must contribute both chromasomes to {Jesus}]. GD's spirit has nothing to do with it. "Virgin" means no y chromasomes from Joseph are in the mix. All chromasomes must come from Mary who is devoid of y chromasomes. Her virginal children must be all girls {without a male to help out}. I don't understand what you are trying to say then.

    ...{Jesus} still has no claim upon Joseph's throne even if Joseph had one to give. You must realize that there has been no king of Davidic origin sitting upon David's throne for over 500 years when {Jesus} shows up. The two fold prophecy of Jeremiah, concerning Jehoiakim's linage has held up. It is as written.

    36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence. Jn. 18: 36

    ...In other words the throne of David does not belong to {Jesus} until he can actually sit upon it. The man who sits upon the throne of David is "born" in his own time {to occupy David's throne}. I've pointed out the only place that this king can come from.

    ...Spying posts;

    There does exist a circumstance where Messiah could have inherited through his mother, Mary. See Numbers 27:7-8. This may only apply to property, however.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...In this case a woman is not allowed to mary outside of her tribe {Nu. 36: 8}. All property must be kept to the tribe of the womans birth. Because Mary married {Jesus} outside of her tribe, she cannot transfer any property to {Jesus}. Mary's father is of the tribe of Levi, isn't he? {Mary and Elisabeth are cousins "Lk. 1: 36" and Elisabeth's father is a priest "Lk. 1: 5"} Mary has no throne to pass along in her {Levitic} ancestry. There has been no transfer of any Davidic throne in over 500 years when {Jesus} is born and such a throne must come from the line of Judah.

    ...Imagine that we were doing genetic tests to determine a mans ancestry. Is there a test that can separate between David's many sons that we could perform? Only one of David's sons has a throne attached to him. And yet there is no genetic sample of David's genetic makeup that we can use to search out David's ancestry to this decree. Even with such a sample of David's blood, we could not determine who was heir to David's throne by it. But he who inherits the Name of YaHudaH inherits David's throne. This has been taken care of by the author{s} of the torah. If you can determine that a child is to be born in this time who will grow up to occupy David's throne, then you know that we should be looking for this child. How would we spot him then? That is why the breach of Genesis 38 exists. It is there to give a heir to David and the JEWish people. GD will tie a red thread to this child's wrist.

    ....Michael
    Last edited by Thummim; 11-23-2004, 01:24 PM.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    Virgin Conception And Birth!

    Hi Thummim,

    If ELOHIM, who is a spirit, would take of your sperm and and plant that seed in the womb of your wife, when you wife conceived, would not the child be yours? This is what happened with Yahushua. Do you understand what I am saying?

    I agreed that Messiah can only inherit through his father, who was of the tribe of Judah and a son of David.

    There does exist a circumstance where Messiah could have inherited through his mother, Mary. See Numbers 27:7-8. This may only apply to property, however.

    Sincerely, Ab

    Leave a comment:


  • Thummim
    replied
    ...Spying posts;

    Messiah Yahushua was the son of Joseph according to the flesh. The spirit of ELOHIM brought and planted the seed of Joseph in the womb of Mary who was also herself a descendant of David. So, Messiah was a man like you and me, but his conception did not occur naturally; hence, a virgin birth.

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...How does a woman who is property herself gain a throne to give to {Jesus}? No Hebrew throne can be passed along in this way. The line of Mary is corrupt in that Levites and Judaites share this line which is impossible. It must be one or the other. The seed of a male cannot leave its father's name. Only to his own tribe can he give seed. Judah can give seed to the tribe of Judah and Levi can give seed to the tribe of Levi. But one cannot bear the others child. A woman, if she is to pass along property to another, must marry within her own tribe {Nu. 36: 8}. Zerubabbel is of the seed that is forbidden David's throne. Zerubabbel is not called a king anywhere in the tanakh. Neither is his son. Wouldn't a virgin birth force {Jesus} to be a female? Where would the Y chromesome come from? As the product of a virgin birth, {Jesus} has xx chromesomes, the contribution of his mother which can alone determine his sex. He then, must be a "she". That's what biology teaches us.

    ...Spying posts;

    I would like for you to answer me this question: Does Messiah Yahushua sit upon the throne of David? David ruled over all Israel. Messiah does not rule over Judah and surely no one is so bold to suggest that Messiah does now rule over the Gentiles. Whom does Messiah rule over?

    XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

    ...No, He has no earthly throne to sit upon by his own words. Israel had its own king after Solomon. The throne of David lost Israel as its subjects. Israel and Judah were constantly at war with each other, thus Isaiah's answer to Ahaz concerning Pekah and his alliance with Rezin, and Israel's determination to defete Judah. But the throne of David is the throne GD gave to David.

    ...Your messiah rules only over those who recognise his authority. That would be christians like you. Messiah comes when Judah is secure. That is what Jeremiah tells us in Jer. 23: 1 - 6. He must be born at this time to give everlasting seed to his throne. I doubt that {Jesus} fathered any children. His {natural bodily} seed was cast to the four winds forever, never to be regathered. His death took care of this. But in his time, a man will marry and give seed to his wife who will bring forth children to sit upon his throne.

    1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of YHWH, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. Isa. 48: 1

    ...Judah gives birth to his brethren Israel. Judah must do this because no one knows where Israel's children are when Judah returns to Jerusalem. Judah has permission to father his own brethren. Judah can be divided up into Israel by drawing lines on a map of Israel. But first the people need to inherit the land of Israel which the tanakh says they will. But Israel shall remain a single people having a single king over them according to Ezekiel {Eze. 37: 22}. The messiah comes to the JEWish people {through a natural birth process} to reign in Israel over all who recognise his authority. His throne is an earthly throne that is found in Jerusalem.

    ....Michael

    Leave a comment:

Working...
X