Righteousness?

[Thummim]

Don't refuse to see the obvious!

...Spying asks,

Did not Messiah Yahushua come from Judah?

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...No. He is not "Judah" unless you believe that he is not the product of a virginal birth. His mother is the daughter of a Levite. Having no earthly father, he also has no earthly inheritance to call his own. His Judaic inheritance, if it could exist, would be of the forbidden line of the kings {the seed of either Jehoiakim or Jehoiachin "JeConiah"} which the throne of David is denighed to by GD's own words. It seems that {Jesus} is trapped in a place that has no earthly throne {which he himself admits}. Obviously {Jesus} does not deliver most JEWs if you except many of the texts that are written in the NT. John makes it clear that {Jesus} is not the deliverer of his people by a couple of his own verses of text.

He came unto his own, and his own received him not. Jn. 1: 11

***

He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. Jn. 3: 18

***

I am the vine, ye are the branches: He that abideth in me, and I in him, the same bringeth forth much fruit: for without me ye can do nothing.

If a man abide not in me, he is cast forth as a branch, and is withered; and men gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. Jn. 15: 6

***

...So why claim that he is his peoples deliverer? He plainly isn't his peoples deliverer according to John. So {Jesus} has no claim upon the name of Yahudah and no claim to make that justifies him as his peoples deliverer. Where the slaughter of the JEWish people is found, {Jesus} is also found.

...The sin of {Jesus} is the same sin that kept Moses and Aaron from the promised land. These three did not sanctify YHWH as his peoples deliverer, but instead sanctified themselves in this role. Christianity didn't sanctify the Name of YHWH at all.

***

Therefore thus saith YHWH of Jehoiakim king of Judah; He shall have none to sit upon the throne of David: and his dead body shall be cast out in the day to the heat, and in the night to the frost. Jer. 36: 30

***

Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?

O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of YHWH.

Thus saith YHWH, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah. Jer. 22: 28 - 30

...GD must mean what he says since he says it twice. There is a "breach" that is kept open to give Judah a heir to David's throne. YaHudaH is his Name. {see Gen. 38: 9, Onan knows what Judah also must know. His seed is not his.} Since it is the firstborn who is supplanted, and Perez is alway the firstborn, a heir will follow in Zerach's role to recieve his inheritance {Yahudah's seed, the JEWish people}. He covers Judah with YHWH's Name requiring that all the vessels of Judah now be holy. {see Zech. 14: 21} When Israel and Judah are divided {the brotherhood broken} the only one who can reunite these two is this earthly heir whom GD marks, with his right arm having a red birthmark on it. {how else would GD tie the red thread to the heir?} To whom is the arm of YHWH revealed?

....Michael

[beseder]

Hi Thummim,

I realize that your approach is to rebuttal the current thinking of Spying,

However, you have an idea where I stand.
Yeshuah was not born of a virgin as christians think.
Josef was his natural father by which Yeshuah was born through Josef's and Myriam's intimacy before the chupah.

However, Myriam was not a levite- she is of the house of Yehudah.

And you know that i follow Talmud, so Yechoniah was repented and forgiven and so he had children and they were able to sit on the throne afterward.

All of the Jews say that Hillel the Elder and his sons were able to sit on the throne- for they were of the Davidic line thrrough Zerubabel.
The same with Yeshuah, who was family of Hillel the Elder..

And the Pharisees said that the Messiah will come through Zerubabel.

But just making clear my stance- and that it is completely solid on Pharisaic doctrine- the Masorah

[beseder]

My claims against Christianity! The daughter of Judaism??

Christianity is not the daughter of Judaism.

for Christianity would need Jews to begin such a religion.

Quite the contrary, Christianity had taken the greatest Rabbi and his disciples writtings and twisted it and turned it against the Jews in all and every way- such as you are doing with it Spying.

These works are Jewish, 100%
No gentile had any hand in penning down the original words that were in Hebrew.
The Nazarean Codicil is a Pharisaic work, that is built on the Hermeneutical Laws of Jewish literature- the PaRDeS system,
and it is the MASORAH (the Oral Tradition) point and blank.
(all of the above I have an artillary of support)
If you DO NOT KNOW how to read the Talmud, what makes you think that you will know how to read the words of His Majesty Yeshuah?

Yeshuah was and is a Jew and so are all of his apostles and even Luke was a Jew- and Catholics are honest enough to say that Yeshuah and the Pharisees were on the same wavelegnth theologically and I say also traditionally in obervation of Torah.

Do you think like a Jew?
No, you have contiously proven otherwise- you think like a gentile- a Roman.
You think and hold to Idolatry.
for you make a man to be god.
And this is whats makes Christianity.
For they do not think Jewish but apply their own personal interpretation to the text.
why? Why do they do this if the ENTIRE TORAH was given at Sinai!?
and whatever a Rabbi says is Torah- why do they make up interpretations if ALL OF IT WAS ALREADY GIVEN!?
And Yeshuah being a Rabbi, already had an interpretation- a Jewish one, one based from the Torah that is here on earth, IT IS NOT IN HEAVEN. And you look for it as though it is in Heaven- that it is some secret revelation that only a few are to realize.
This sounds like Christianity. or in the more open sense a gentile rendering of all Torah writting.

You are in Christianity- the belief of 3 and 1 diety in some strange fashion.

Maybe you have an arguement with Thummim because he cannot see what I see. However, you have no arguement with me.
I am as Rabbi Eliezer from the Talmud, a pharisee, in fact one of the greatest- he gave the most halachah in the Talmud, yet, he was a Nazarean- a follower of Yeshuah.
This makes it the same as Hakham Shaul, who always remained a pharisee and yet followed Yeshuah.

Messianic dgudaism is a fraud
christianity is a theif
and all of her daughters are the harlots.

[Thummim]

Did Jehoiakim also repent? It is about corrupt kings and not individual men alone.

...Antonio posts;

And you know that i follow Talmud, so Yechoniah was repented and forgiven and so he had children and they were able to sit on the throne afterward.

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...None of Jehoiakims seed has since sat upon David's throne!

...Should it be that easy to overturn the word of YHWH? This is not a single prophetic statement about the line of Jehoiakim loosing the throne of Israel forever that YHWH makes through Jeremiah. It exists twice. {Jer. 36: 30, Jer. 22: 28 - 30} Did Jehoiakim repent also? No messianic figure has followed these men to sit upon David's throne. It hasn't happened. That means that GD has kept his word.

Jeremiah chapter 22

28 Is this man Coniah a despised broken idol? is he a vessel wherein is no pleasure? wherefore are they cast out, he and his seed, and are cast into a land which they know not?

29 O earth, earth, earth, hear the word of YHWH.

30 Thus saith YHWH, Write ye this man childless, a man that shall not prosper in his days: for no man of his seed shall prosper, sitting upon the throne of David, and ruling any more in Judah.


Chapter 23

1 Woe be unto the pastors that destroy and scatter the sheep of my pasture! saith YHWH.

2 Therefore thus saith YHWH God of Israel against the pastors that feed my people; Ye have scattered my flock, and driven them away, and have not visited them: behold, I will visit upon you the evil of your doings, saith YHWH.

3 And I will gather the remnant of my flock out of all countries whither I have driven them, and will bring them again to their folds; and they shall be fruitful and increase.

4 And I will set up shepherds over them which shall feed them: and they shall fear no more, nor be dismayed, neither shall they be lacking, saith YHWH.

5 Behold, the days come, saith YHWH, that I will raise unto David a righteous Branch, and a King shall reign and prosper, and shall execute judgment and justice in the earth.

6 In his days Judah shall be saved, and Israel shall dwell safely: and this is his name whereby he shall be called, YHWH OUR RIGHTEOUSNESS.


...There are a few key verses of text here that accompany this messianic person spoken of above. These words do not fit your messiah at all. There was no division of chapters and verses when these words were written. What happened to the people of Israel after your messianic candidate died? Would it fit these words in any way? We are reading of a child who is born of a woman in the traditional way {not any virginal birth}, whose seed remains to create a line of kings that perpetually endure. {see Jer. 33: 17, 18} These texts are locked to what follows this messianic servant, as I see it. From his appearance, there will be both king and priest who remain ever after. When these words were written, the throne of David was to be evacuated until this man came. Neither the christian god-man nor your prophet of Roman times fulfills any reading of these words. You have no need of negating YHWH's words at all by saying that JeConiah repented. The throne of David is empty until this messianic man comes to sit upon it. His seed will remain. This continuing seed is not the seed of "{Jesus}/Yeshua", but the enduring seed that comes to be a blessing to the JEWish people. Slaughter awaited JEWish people in the times of Yeshua. The words of the NT are not the words of Yeshua, but the words of biased authors who assumed that the JEWish people rejected their own messiah to their own hurt. How I loath the words of the NT. I curse these authors {of the NT} every day of my life for what they did to the JEWish people with their words. They defiled the name of "YaHudaH". As ones name goes, so goes their fate! Christianity and its effects upon the JEWish people, rests upon these christians and their own interpretation of the words of the NT. To many christians, permission was given to believe that JEWs are the killers of the son of GD, the messiah, or even GD himself. You need to trade your faith in the name of Yeshua, for faith based upon the Name of YHWH. Only one name really fits the JEWish soul.

....Michael

[beseder]

I stand as the Rabbis have pointed out.
That Jeconiah repented and the the Messiah ben David will come from Zerubabel

point and blank.
Maybe you can discuss with a more learned Jew than I on the point that the Messiah ben David will not come from Zerubabel.

But all Jews know that Hillel the elder had right to the throne and the same as all of his sons.

And this is where I stand

But it seems to me that you form your own Judaism.
Not completely recognizing the authority of the Rabbis.
intresting.

Poriel

[beseder]

Oh yeah, you also forgot...
He is right now
Mashiach ben Yosef, not ben David!
So dont mix the two and make it that I see him as Mashiach ben david- Because Yeshuah is not in that mission right now.

All of the anti-missionaries agree that the actual historical Jesus of the so-called New Testament was a Pharisee.

And the Hassidim will always say that Yeshuah is the Messiah sent to the gentiles.

In other words, as the Talmud said in the Gemara concerning Mashiach ben Yosef when Rabbi Yehoshua ben Levi met him in person said that he is the

"Messiah in Rome" - In other words a Jew, an annointed one who is amoungst the gentiles. Does this not also sound like Yisrael? look at Isaiah 53-

"Messiah dressed in rags"-We are the Messiah sent to the gentiles and we are dressed in rags - for we mean nothing to the Gentiles yet the gentiles usurp our people and call themselves Yisrael (by the work of Christians and Moslems)

And one man represents all of this within himself- a Jewish man, known as Yeshuah ben Yosef- He is Mashiach ben Yosef- the messiah amoungst the gentiles- whose Judaism is not respected amoungst the gentiles and has been stripped of all his Jewishness BY THE GENTILES and the gentiles have usurped him to be either a pagan man-god or a moslem that hates the Jewish people while the gentiles call Yeshuah as one of their own.

As I said earlier- the same is done with the people of yeshuah- Yisrael.
We have been stripped of our Jewishness and tossed aside as the Jews by flesh and christians and moslems try to rob from us our identity by "the spirit" as they say- thus they claim themsleves Spiritual Israel and G-d could care less of the "physical Yisrael". Yet these idiots do not understand that if one is a Jew inwardly HE MUST BE A JEW OUTWARDLY!

And if Yeshuah was indeed a Jew inwardly, He was a Jew outwardly.
And if one is a Jew outwardly he is a Jew inwardly.
What shows on the outside surely shows whats on the inside.

So again- this happened to Yisrael, this happened to yeshuah.

Have yo not also heard a doctrine of the sages and of all traditional Judaism that whatever happens to one Jew has happened to us all?

And so, whatever happened to Yeshuah is happening to the Jewish people.
Everytime Yeshuah is maligned the more that Yisrael is maligned.
Everytime a Jew speaks evil of Yeshuah he is causing division in Yisrael.
Everytime a Gentile strips Yeshuah of his Jewishness-the gentile is also looking to strip all other Jews of their Jewishness in the name of Yisrael and of our Torah.
They robbed our Torah, they robbed our Prophets and they robbed one of our greatest Rabbi's- Yeshuah, and are tryin hard to rob from us our identity.

I suggest that you look for a specific book- "the sequence of events in the old testament" written by Jews for the governement.
You'll find it intresting. Extremely intresting.

I suggest that you think some things out more and ask better questions if you want better answers

[Thummim]

Un-opinionated rabbi's? Whoever heard of such a thing?

...Antonio writes;

But it seems to me that you form your own Judaism.
Not completely recognizing the authority of the Rabbis.
intresting.

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...Lets not assume our Rabbi's to be of a single perspective. This they almost never are. I stand on what is written by Jeremiah in convincing context. There still hasn't been a king to sit upon David's throne in 2500 years. That is exactly what Jeremiah said would be until the coming of this king of Judah's peace and security {Jer. 23: 1 - 6}. Jeremiah also says that when this king melek sits upon his throne there will also be a priest of Levitical origin in place. Without a genetic sample of the blood of David's birthline there can be no king but that which will come in the way that I have mentioned. A rite will be honored and a breach healed. The seed of Yeshua/{Jesus} died with him making sure that he is not the one spoken off by Jeremiah, of the one whose seed endures perpetually to occupy David's throne.

...Antonio writes;

Have yo not also heard a doctrine of the sages and of all traditional Judaism that whatever happens to one Jew has happened to us all?

And so, whatever happened to Yeshuah is happening to the Jewish people.

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...And you know what was to have happened to this man as reported, and so it now happens to all of us? Messiah ben Joseph isn't a universal belief of all JEWs. We need no one to suffer for us. We do that well enough by ourselves {most often with unwanted help}. This idea is a chain that needs to be broken. We can all suffer together, but then it must stop.

....Michael

[beseder]

Quote:
We can all suffer together, but then it must stop.

I must respond in this way:
"NO DUH"
lol

Michael, you are saying things that is universal amoungst Traditional Jews- such as our suffering must stop.
When is it that our suffering is at its height in the Jewish year?
on a specific fast day.
This is the day that Messiah ben David will be revealed and on that day our suffering will stop.

the same that you have a view that is not universal in Judaism such as this strange concept that zerach will take the place of Peretz is a strange one.

Traditional Judaism has the view that both are one- such as both are combined already- and this stregnth is found in Zerubabel- but you didnt know that.
by this you defeat what you have already seen
However for Zerach to usurp Peretz' position, NEVER!
Both combined means stregnth in Judaism- this is Geburah!
Look at this on the sephirotic tree.

Now, I also have a position which is not universal- but mines doesnt have to be.
Rabbis everywhere DO NOT CARE for the Mashiach ben Yosef.
While some will engage in his mission- which is to convert gentiles.
Neither should you which is why i dont understand why you continue to fight me on this- because Mashiach ben Yosef is NOT YOUR MESSIAH!
any Jew fighting me about this is wasting my and their valuable time!
again, as I stated above.
Mashiach ben Yosef is he Messiah for the gentiles.
And Messiah is the head of his body who is Yisrael.
whereever the head goes the body must follow.
Thus, Yisrael is in diaspora such as never before since 70 CE.
If you cant see it, fine- it doesnt matter.
Its still done and has been done.

So, Why should a Jew care about a Messiah who is only here to convert gentiles and not redeem Yisrael?
WHO FREEKING CARES!?
But, I do- because I see that it will lead to the redemption of Yisrael when we finish being a light to the goyim. When this time is over, then our redemption will come.

and I dislike speaking with you for one reason. Which is why my responses are so chaotic. Because too many topics are mentioned and I cannot get to them all in one blow.

Stick to one. either :
Mashiach be Yosef-
do jews need to head him?
who does he come for?
what is his mission?
who should care?
Peretz and Zerach:
is there a breach?
who deserves the throne?
etc.
Jeconiah:
Did he repent and make tikkun or not?
Would his tikkun actually reverse the decree against him or not?
Can his descendants now sit on the throne?
Should we listen to the Rabbi's or are they mistaken?
Yeshuah as a suffering Jew:
What does this mean to the Jew?
Does his death mean anything for the Jew?
Does his death mean anything for the gentile?
Does his life mean anything to the Jew?
Does his life mean anything to the gentile?
What does his suffering mean to the gentile?
Yeshuah:
A Pharisee and Rabbi?
An idolatrer?
A heretic?
A Gentile?
Spoke against the customs and traditions/Oral Torah at any point?
Was he a self-hating Jew- by hating and flamming other Jews?
Was he an anti-Semite?

Messiah- what is his position to Yisrael:
Is the Messiah- whoever he is, the epitimy of all Yisrael?
Yisrael, the Messiah
Joseph, the Messiah
David, The Messiah
Are all of these messiah's one in the same?
Is it that "There is no Messiah and Your it"?

Yisrael:
What is Yisrael?
Who is Yisrael?
What is Yisraels position to the world?
Where is Yisrael?
etc.

Things must be set up orderly and dealt with in an orderly fashion...you clutter- I dont like clutter.
So, let's do this correctly!
If not I cant stand to do this any longer.
There is no order on the way discussions and debates are done on these forums.
Stick to one topic on one post, and thread and forum.
If there is a Rabbit trail that will lead off the topic but is near the topic make a different thread. Simple!

Thus, there needs to be rules for discussion.
I know christians dont like rules but hey. If they want to discuss with a Jew- sorry, its going to have to be done.
And the with any other person that is not beseder.
the secret is sidur!

Shalom u'berachot,
Poriel

[beseder]

QUOTE:

If Messiah lives and dwells in and with you, how is it that you say that you eat of the Passover every Sabbath, or that the Passover has indeed been fulfilled? Are you saying by your supposed eating of the Passover that the Kingdom of ELOHIM has indeed come?

Your usage of the phrase "Kingdom of G-D" is flawed in understanding.

What is a kingdom?
think about things practically.
Make what is abstract real.
Then you have partaken of "your will be done in earth as it is in heaven".

The Spirit and the Physical are attached. If it happens in the Spiritual it happens in the Physical and vice and versa.

What is the kingdom Spying?

we can make a new thread about this if you want to discuss the kingdom of G-D.

[Thummim]

The path of a messiah

...Antonio posts;

Traditional Judaism has the view that both are one- such as both are combined already- and this stregnth is found in Zerubabel- but you didnt know that.
by this you defeat what you have already seen
However for Zerach to usurp Peretz' position, NEVER!
Both combined means stregnth in Judaism- this is Geburah!
Look at this on the sephirotic tree.


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28 And it came to pass, when she travailed, that the oneput out his hand: and the midwife took and bound upon his hand a scarlet thread, saying, This came out first.

29 And it came to pass, as he drew back his hand, that, behold, his brother came out: and she said, How hast thou broken forth? this breach be upon thee: therefore his name was called Pharez.

30 And afterward came out his brother, that had the scarlet thread upon his hand: and his name was called Zarah.

...Who is the firstborn child of these two? Notice what happens to the other firstborn {Ishmael, Esau, Reuben, Manasseh}. The fact that Perez is the firstborn child allows the seed of Judah to be inherited by one of Zerach's distant offspring. If the brotherhood of Judah were separated from the seed of Israel, {Zech. 11: 14} here Judah could be reattached to his brethren. The 38th chapter of Bereshit is the only "breach" that can yeild a messiah whose Name is YHWH and who can be called a father of all JEWs. This breach works into Zechariah's own writings. When the Name of YHWH becomes the name of the JEWish people, Judah will need holy vessels to eat from.

...Judah married a Canaanite woman and her son {ER} inherited the seed of Judah's firstborn Pperez} as his own seed. But Er is only entitled to one of these two children. The one who follows Perez out of the womb {Zerach} will have a heir who will inherit all of Judah's seed fathered by Perez. Here a Canaanite can be attached and claim the name that yeilds the Name of YHWH {fourth letter removed}. A breach exists which is what "perez" means. This "breach" was the intent of the author of Bereshit. He created it deliberately


2 And Abraham said unto his eldest servant of his house, that ruled over all that he had, Put, I pray thee, thy hand under my thigh:

3 And I will make thee swear by YHWH, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell:

***

1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan.

...If Judah marries a Canaanite, you can bet it has something to do with the story that the author of Bereshit is writing.

***

5 If brethren dwell together, and one of them die, and have no child, the wife of the dead shall not marry without unto a stranger: her husband's brother shall go in unto her, and take her to him to wife, and perform the duty of an husband's brother unto her.

6 And it shall be, that the firstborn which she beareth shall succeed in the name of his brother which is dead, that his name be not put out of Israel.

--> This is why it is important to determine who is the firstborn of the twins.

7 And if the man like not to take his brother's wife, then let his brother's wife go up to the gate unto the elders, and say, My husband's brother refuseth to raise up unto his brother a name in Israel, he will not perform the duty of my husband's brother.

8 Then the elders of his city shall call him, and speak unto him: and if he stand to it, and say, I like not to take her;

9 Then shall his brother's wife come unto him in the presence of the elders, and loose his shoe from off his foot, and spit in his face, and shall answer and say, So shall it be done unto that man that will not build up his brother's house.

10 And his name shall be called in Israel, The house of him that hath his shoe loosed. Deut. 25: 5 - 10

...Perez belongs to Er because he is the firstborn of Tamar's children. But Zerach belongs to Judah because he is the second born child. The second born child does not go with the firstborn. {Zerach} has the rite of the firstborn tied to his right arm, but he is not the firstborn child. Er's rite is to the firstborn child only. When this heir of Zerach claims his rite, he will possess ER's seed. He will possess the name of "Judah" from which the Name of YHWH comes from, and he will also possess the throne of Judah {his name} through Er's seed. "Judah" is the throne of Israel. {Jesus} cannot make a claim upon David's throne to usurp the rite of Zerach's heir. If {Jesus} claimed any attachment to the name of Judah, he would be the possession of this heir. {now his father}. This heir of Zerach is marked by a red arm. Tamar is where Zechariah's thirty pieces of silver come from {Lev. 27: 4}. The potters {I Chr. 4: 21 - 23} are the family of the promised son {shelah} that isn't given to Tamar to give her husband a heir. Casting thirty pieces of silver to the potters is redeeming Tamar from the Name of YHWH, separating her twins from the brotherhood of Israel. She is assumed to be consecrated to YHWH which requires thirty pieces of silver be given to the priest.

21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto YHWH of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of YHWH of hosts. Zech. 14: 21

***

11 And many nations shall be joined to YHWH in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that YHWH of hosts hath sent me unto thee.

12 And YHWH shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again. Zech. 2: 11, 12

...These are not simple things to learn, but they are learnable. They have everything to do with the coming of Judah's messiah. There are many messiah's {anointed servants of GD}, but only one with a rite to David's throne and YHWH's Name and Judah's seed.

....Michael

[beseder]

Now this is well thought out and written.
thank you!

I will be constructin my dialectic and then afterward show you my results.

toddah
and Shabat shalom,

Poriel

[Spying]

The Kingdom Of ELOHIM

Hi Israelthebride and Beseder,

My objection to your claim that you eat the Passover every Sabbath is actually based upon this idea: The Kingdom of ELOHIM can only be within us when the Heavenly is united with the earthly as Beseder indicates.

Strictly speaking this has already occurred in Messiah:

Col 1:19
19 For it pleased the Father that in him should all fulness dwell; (KJV)

Through the death, burial, and resurrection of Messiah; yet, what is it that we do now see on this earth? When I look around I see a Mountain of Dead Flesh, the World, which does not submit to the will of YAHWEH and allow itself to be buried so that it might arise to a newness of life which accomplishes the will of our Father. This has come and will come whether the World consents or not, whether the Jews consent or not. As it is written:

Eph 1:10
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Messiah, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (KJV)

So, the Kingdom of ELOHIM is indeed here; otherwise, how I could I see a Mountain of Dead Flesh standing in the Holy Place?

Whether you can see or not is not a test of the existence of the Kingdom of ELOHIM. I will tell you what you will see: You will see every knee bow to Messiah Yahushua, the Son of David, the King of the Jews. This bowing includes the knees of those Pharisees who have rejected his rule in their lives.

So, yes, Beseder, a thread on the Kingdom of ELOHIM might be helpful here.

Sincerely, Ab

P.S. Before you can leave Egypt, the Kingdom of Satan, and possess the promised Land, the Lamb in you must die, and then you must consume your own flesh. These are ideas that swirl in the Kingdom of ELOHIM.

[Spying]

Rulership?

Hi Thummim,

Messiah Yahushua was the son of Joseph according to the flesh. The spirit of ELOHIM brought and planted the seed of Joseph in the womb of Mary who was also herself a descendant of David. So, Messiah was a man like you and me, but his conception did not occur naturally; hence, a virgin birth.

I would like to see Messiah Yahushua also to be a descendant of the tribe Levi for reasons that I may explain at a later time.

I would like for you to answer me this question: Does Messiah Yahushua sit upon the throne of David? David ruled over all Israel. Messiah does not rule over Judah and surely no one is so bold to suggest that Messiah does now rule over the Gentiles. Whom does Messiah rule over?

Messiah rules over the outcasts. Messiah rules over the despised and rejected and those who are suffering. Messiah rules over me. I am of Joseph, and my allegiance and loyalty is to Messiah Yahushua. So, it begins again, Messiah will ultimately sit upon the throne of David and rule over all Israel:

1 Sam 22:2
2 And every one that was in distress, and every one that was in debt, and every one that was discontented, gathered themselves unto him; and he became a captain over them: and there were with him about four hundred men. (KJV)

This was written for your benefit, Thummim. What must occur before Messiah can rule over you? What must occur before Messiah can rule over Judah? Don't be shy!

Sincerely, Ab

[Spying]

Christianity is not the daughter of Judaism.

Hi Beseder,

Please read Acts 15 and point out for me the Gentiles who are making halachah for the new cult the members of which had already came to be called Christians:

Acts 11:26
26 And when he had found him, he brought him unto Antioch. And it came to pass, that a whole year they assembled themselves with the church, and taught much people. And the disciples were called Christians first in Antioch. (KJV)

Acts 26:28
28 Then Agrippa said unto Paul, Almost thou persuadest me to be a Christian. (KJV)

Acts 28:22
22 But we desire to hear of thee what thou thinkest: for as concerning this sect (Str.139), we know that every where it is spoken against.(KJV)

139 hairesis (hah'-ee-res-is);

from 138; properly, a choice, i.e. (specially) a party or (abstractly) disunion:

KJV-- heresy [which is the Greek word itself], sect.

Acts 24:14
14 But this I confess unto thee, that after the way which they call heresy (Str. 139), so worship I the ELOHIM of my fathers, believing all things which are written in the law and in the prophets:(KJV)

And then tell me again that Christianity is not the offspring of Judaism.

What is a sect? A sect is a deviation from orthodoxy. As such, a sect can properly be called a daughter.

Sincerely, Ab

[Spying]

if the ENTIRE TORAH was given at Sinai!?

Hi Beseder,

You should know that I believe that Messiah Yahushua is also ELIYAH and "that Prophet":

John 1:25
25 And they asked him, and said unto him, Why baptizest thou then, if thou be not that Christ, nor Elias, neither that prophet? (KJV)

Moses wrote of the coming of this Prophet in this manner:

Deut 18:17-19
17 And YAHWEH said unto me, They have well spoken that which they have spoken.
18 I will raise them up a Prophet from among their brethren, like unto thee, and will put my words in his mouth; and he shall speak unto them all that I shall command him.
19 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever will not hearken unto my words which he shall speak in my name, I will require it of him. (KJV)

If all the Torah was given at Sinai, what need is there for YAHWEH to give Israel a new commandment through this prophet?

Sincerely, Ab