ABEL and Cain

[israelthebride Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close israelthebride]

This is a dramatization
of what I believe happened on this HOLY DAY of OFFERING.

LOVE, RICOEL
____________

The HOLY DAY of the OFFERING was coming
and ABEL and Cain were debating in their usual competitive way.

"What are you OFFERING to YH'SHWH?" Cain asked.
"I'm not going to tell you!" responded ABEL.
"Why not?" questioned Cain.
"Then, you'll try to get a better or bigger OFFERING.
I'm just not going to tell you, so don't keep asking!" replied ABEL as he stomped away.

Cain took off to his fields and was admiring how large his crop had been this year.
He knew that he would have a better OFFERING than ABEL
Because of the abundance of his crop.
He would gather from all his crops and accumulate a large OFFERING.
He knew that he had a lot to give as an OFFERING.
He had worked hard to have a large OFFERING.
YH'SHWH would be impressed.
YH'SHWH would accept his OFFERING over ABEL'S.

ABEL had gone to his herds of sheep.
He had no idea what he was going to give as an OFFERING to YH'SHWH.
All he had were his sheep.
He looked to the sky and PRAYED,
"Dear GOD YH'SHWH,
I don't have a thing to give as an OFFERING to YOU.
YOU are a GREAT and GIVING GOD.
I PRAY that I may find a GREAT OFFERING for YOU."

"We celebrate this HOLY DAY of LIFE that YOU GAVE us.
Remembering the day
YOU could have killed Dad and Mom when they moved against YOU,
but YOU, in YOUR LOVING KINDNESS,
SACRIFICED an INNOCENT LAMB, instead.
YOU took the LAMB'S skin and covered my parent's nakedness - their sin."

"My GOD YH'SHWH,
All I can have to give to YOU is a lamb.
Please accept this OFFERING as a SYMBOL of what YOU did for us.
I do this in WORSHIP, in ADORATION,
And in SUBMISSION to what
YOU did for us.
Because of what YOU did - we live."

"I have no idea what YOU meant,
when YOU said that YOU would pay
for the death of the INNOCENT LAMB,
but I will TRUST in YOUR LOVE for us.
YOU will keep us SAFE."

The day of the HOLY OFFERING
ABEL'S OFFERING was accepted by YH'SHWH.

[beseder Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close beseder]

The Targum Neofiti has the entire discourse between Abel and Cayin.
you should take a look into it.


shalomu'brachot

[Thummim Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Thummim]

...Think Ricoel?

...Should YHWH except an offering from the cursed ground? Agricultural offerings are now exceptable {after the curse upon the ground ended after the flood}

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou {Adam and Eve} eat of it all the days of thy life; Gen. {Bereshit} 3: 17

....Michael

[israelthebride Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close israelthebride]

The sin is not what "thing" was offered.

The sin was that Cain thought
that he was capable of offering something
"GOOD/RIGHTEOUS".

My righteousness is like filthy rags.

ABLE offered what YHSHWH has done for us.
YHSHWH'S RIGHTEOUSNESS!!!

YHSHWH'S SACRIFICE, in HIS GRACE, in HIS LOVE,
SAVED us from the "deserved" death.

After this,
an INNOCENT had to REDEEM the death
of this INNOCENT ANIMAL (I believe a LAMB).

There is ONLY ONE WHO is INNOCENT.

LOVE, RICOEL

[Thummim Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Thummim]

...Ricoel writes;

The sin was that Cain thought
that he was capable of offering something
"GOOD/RIGHTEOUS".

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...Ricoel, Abel's gift to GD was exceptable because GD hadn't cursed his offering. Cains offering was cursed because it came from the ground. Many agricultural offerings have been excepted by GD since then. When the curse ended after the flood and GD said to Noah that all was good to eat, agricultural offerings became exceptable to GD. That is what the upcoming Shavout is about. Giving GD the firstfruits of the land and bringing them to the temple.

...Ricoel, you are twisting things up. GD does not require the shedding of innocent blood. He commands guilt upon those who shed it.

...Michael

[ImAHebrew Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ImAHebrew]

Just passing by.

Shalom to those that are here,

Just thought I would drop by and add something to the discussion.

Abel's sacrifice was accepted because he offered the FIRSTLINGS of his flock. Able showed he had faith that Elohim would continue to bless him by giving of the first born of the flock. Cain on the other hand just gave of some of what he had harvested, he did not give the firstfruits of what came from the ground. If he had given of the firstfruits of what he harvested, his offering would have been acceptable also. Cain lacked faith that Elohim would continue to bless him.

Blessing in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Thummim]

Cursed is the grown {and what is eaten from it}

...ImAHebrew writes;

Cain on the other hand just gave of some of what he had harvested, he did not give the firstfruits of what came from the ground.

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...There is nothing to say that Cains offering wasn't the firstfruits of his efforts. Nothing that Cain, being a tiller of the cursed ground would have been exceptable to GD.

2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground.

3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto YHWH.

4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And YHWH had respect unto Abel and to his offering:

5 But unto Cain and to his offering he had not respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell.

...What we are told is that Cain's offering is from the ground and that Abel's offering is of the firstfruits of his flock along with the fat. Nothing coming from the cursed ground, including the firstfruits of the ground would have been exceptable since GD had cursed the fruit of the ground already.

17 And unto Adam he said, Because thou hast hearkened unto the voice of thy wife, and hast eaten of the tree, of which I commanded thee, saying, Thou shalt not eat of it: cursed is the ground for thy sake; in sorrow shalt thou eat of it all the days of thy life;

18 Thorns also and thistles shall it bring forth to thee; and thou shalt eat the herb of the field;

--> {as a punishment!}

19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return. Gen. 3: 17 - 19

...If GD deems sorrow to come from the cursed grown, which Adam is to eat of for the rest of his life, why would GD except this sorrow {the curse} as an offering? Remember that the forbidden fruit that Adam and his wife ate came from the ground.

....Michael

[ImAHebrew Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ImAHebrew]

It was a matter of faith.

Shalom Thummim,

There are several reasons why I cannot accept your reasoning here.

1. The curse of the ground meant that man was put into a position to where he would have to toil for what he ate. "By the sweat of his brow." Both Cain and Abel were put into this position, and the flood has not changed it a bit. Even to this day, man still is under this curse of toiling by the sweat of his brow, with having "thorns and thistles" affect our lives. And even back then, being a herdsman had it's "thorns and thistles" as well (wolves, inclimate weather, bad pastures, etc). And if you notice, both Cain and Abel came "from the ground," and they both "returned to the ground." If cursing the ground means that an acceptable sacrifice could not be given, then neither one of them could have offered anything acceptable, since both came from the ground and both were cursed.

2. The key reason Abel's sacrifice was accepted is because it was an offering made in faith. The NT writer to the Hebrews uses this logic when writing to Hebrews. You may not agree with what is written in the NT, but it appears that someone with a Jewish mind considered Abel's offering acceptable because it was offered in "faith." The only reason why his offering was an offering in faith is because he gave of the firstlings. It's just a matter of looking at this logically and using common sense. If you give back to Elohim what He first blesses you with, you show Him that you trust (have faith in Him) that He will continue to bless you. Abel did this, Cain did not. Cain gave just "some of the fruit of the ground," NOT the firstfruits. Cain did not have Abel's faith.

Hebrews 11:4 By faith Abel offered to Elohim a better sacrifice than Cain did, and by it he was declared to be righteous, since Elohim himself accepted his offerings. And by faith he continues to speak, even though he is dead.

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Thummim]

--> Giving GD the cursed?

...IamAHebrew,

...And if GD had cursed Abel's flocks of sheep, would there be anyway for Abel to make an exceptable offering to GD from his flock of sheep? GD will not except what is cursed by him. How much less perfect is the cursed, then that which is defiled? So GD cursed the ground, and by the ground he cursed Adam. Does GD want a bite of Adam's curse? Would GD except the defiled?

...Gen. 4: 11, 12 show that Cain was cursed for spilling his brothers blood. But these texts also show that not all of mankind is cursed, nor is all the life that walks upon the earth cursed. It is the ground whose curse is transfered to Cain. He is now like Adam. Cain's curse is distinguished from the fate of other people.

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10 And he said, What hast thou done? the voice of thy brother's blood crieth unto me from the ground.

11 And now art thou cursed from the earth, which hath opened her mouth to receive thy brother's blood from thy hand;

12 When thou tillest the ground, it shall not henceforth yield unto thee her strength; a fugitive and a vagabond shalt thou be in the earth. Gen. 4: 10 - 12

...Michael

[ImAHebrew Moderator Find all posts View Profile Close ImAHebrew]

Agree to disagree.

Shalom Thummim,

I guess we will have to just agree, to disagree, because I am pretty firm about what I have related on this subject.

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Thummim]

Still a good exchange of ideas

...Yes, we disagree here. But it was worth discussing anyway.

....Michael