WE are HIS TEMPLE

[Spying]

Blessing And Cursing Abraham?

Hi Thummim,

YAHWEH said to Abram:

Gen 12:3
3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. (KJV)

Are these promises still in effect today? Can Jews bless Abraham today? Can Christians bless Abraham today? How about the opposite shoe? Can we curse him?

What about the latter promise? How is Abraham, himself, and I am not speaking of his Seed here, I am speaking of Abraham himself, how is he a blessing to all the families of the earth? The dead cannot be a blessing because of this scripture:

Eccl 9:4-6
4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. (KJV)

Abraham must somehow be considered to be a part of the living, eventhough he has died, in order for Abraham to be a blessing to you and me. More on this later.

Abraham is blessed by those who come after him only if they obey what YAHWEH ELOHIM has commanded:

Gen 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep (leaders as well as non leaders) the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment; that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. (KJV)

We curse Abraham whenever we do not keep the way of YAHWEH. Accordingly, we either bless Abraham, or we curse him through what we do.

It stands to reason therefore, that the Way of YAHWEH, the Torah, is both a blessing and a curse:

Deut 30:19
19 I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live: (KJV)

Accordingly, it is not ImAHebrew or myself that is blessing or cursing anyone. This is the long and short of it: If we do not keep the way of Lord tamiymly, then we are cursing Abraham. If we curse Abraham, then YAHWEH has promised to curse us.

How do we know whether someone has cursed Abraham? Have they died? If they have died, and the exception here would be true martyrdom (bad things can indeed happen to good people), then they have proven that they are cursed.

The choice is still yours.

Sincerely, Ab

[Thummim]

Moab, gets a curse for a curse for trying to curse Jacob.

...Spying, you are missing something very important. When the text mentions cursing Abraham, it really means cursing the seed of Abraham that passes through Isaac.

26 And his father Isaac said unto him, Come near now, and kiss me, my son.

27 And he came near, and kissed him: and he smelled the smell of his raiment, and blessed him, and said, See, the smell of my son is as the smell of a field which YHWH hath blessed:

28 Therefore God give thee of the dew of heaven, and the fatness of the earth, and plenty of corn and wine:

29 Let people serve thee, and nations bow down to thee: be lord over thy brethren, and let thy mother's sons bow down to thee: cursed be every one that curseth thee, and blessed be he that blesseth thee. Gen. 27: 26 - 29

...Isaac understands and Jacob understands that it is he who curses this seed of Abraham, Issac, and Jabob violates GD's will.

...Balak violated this admonition of GD's. GD cursed his seed.

7 And he took up his parable, and said, Balak the king of Moab hath brought me from Aram, out of the mountains of the east, saying, Come, curse me Jacob, and come, defy Israel.

8 How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom YHWH hath not defied? Nu. 23: 7, 8

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9 Therefore as I live, saith YHWH of hosts, the God of Israel, Surely Moab shall be as Sodom, and the children of Ammon as Gomorrah, even the breeding of nettles, and saltpits, and a perpetual desolation: the residue of my people shall spoil them, and the remnant of my people shall possess them.

10 This shall they have for their pride, because they have reproached and magnified themselves against the people of YHWH of hosts. Zeph. 2: 9, 10

....Michael

[ImAHebrew]

YHWH ordains the curse, not Spying or ImAHebrew.

Shalom Thummim,

It's the big picture that you need to look at. What Spying and I say concerning the disobedience of Judiasm does in no way render a curse, it is Elohim who ordains and renders the curse upon the disobedient. Here are some Scriptures that show some of YHWH's prophets declaring how His people are cursed because of disobedience. Are these prophets cursing YHWH's people (as you claim Spying and I are), or they just declaring the truth?

Deu 11:26 “See, I am setting before you today a blessing and a curse:
27 the blessing, if you listen to the commandments of YHWH your Elohim, which I am commanding you today;
28 and the curse, if you do not listen to the commandments of YHWH your Elohim, but turn aside from the way which I am commanding you today, by following other gods which you have not known.

Deu 27:26 ‘Cursed is he who does not confirm the words of this law by doing them.’ And all the people shall say, ‘Amen.’

Deu 28:20 “YHWH will send upon you curses, confusion, and rebuke, in all you undertake to do, until you are destroyed and until you perish quickly, on account of the evil of your deeds, because you have forsaken Me.

Psalm 119:21 You rebuke the arrogant, the cursed, Who wander from Your commandments.

Isa 24:1 Behold, YHWH lays the earth waste, devastates it, distorts its surface and scatters its inhabitants.
2 And the people will be like the priest, the servant like his master, the maid like her mistress, the buyer like the seller, the lender like the borrower, the creditor like the debtor.
3 The earth will be completely laid waste and completely despoiled, for YHWH has spoken this word.
4 The earth mourns and withers, the world fades and withers, the exalted of the people of the earth fade away.
5 The earth is also polluted by its inhabitants, for they transgressed laws, violated statutes, broke the everlasting covenant.
6 Therefore, a curse devours the earth, and those who live in it are held guilty. Therefore, the inhabitants of the earth are burned, and few men are left.

Jer 11:1 The word which came to Jeremiah from YHWH, saying,
2 “Hear the words of this covenant, and speak to the men of Judah and to the inhabitants of Jerusalem;
3 and say to them, ‘Thus says YHWH, the Elohim of Israel, “Cursed is the man who does not heed the words of this covenant
4 which I commanded your forefathers in the day that I brought them out of the land of Egypt, from the iron furnace, saying, ‘Listen to My voice, and do according to all which I command you; so you shall be My people, and I will be your Elohim,’
5 in order to confirm the oath which I swore to your forefathers, to give them a land flowing with milk and honey, as it is this day.” ’ ” Then I said, “Amen, O YHWH.”

Jer 44:20 Then Jeremiah said to all the people, to the men and women—even to all the people who were giving him such an answer—saying,
21 “As for the smoking sacrifices that you burned in the cities of Judah and in the streets of Jerusalem, you and your forefathers, your kings and your princes, and the people of the land, did not YHWH remember them and did not all this come into His mind?
22 “So YHWH was no longer able to endure it, because of the evil of your deeds, because of the abominations which you have committed; thus your land has become a ruin, an object of horror and a curse, without an inhabitant, as it is this day.
23 “Because you have burned sacrifices and have sinned against YHWH and not obeyed the voice of YHWH or walked in His law, His statutes or His testimonies, therefore this calamity has befallen you, as it has this day.”

Dan 9:11 “Indeed all Israel has transgressed Your law and turned aside, not obeying Your voice; so the curse has been poured out on us, along with the oath which is written in the law of Moses the servant of Elohim, for we have sinned against Him.

Mal 3:9 “You are cursed with a curse, for you are robbing Me, the whole nation of you!

Are you seeing the big picture here Thummim? YHWH is the One who curses with a curse because of the disobedience of His people, not the messengers who declare the disobedience. YHWH said to the prophet Isaiah:

Isa 58:1 “Cry loudly, do not hold back;
Raise your voice like a trumpet,
And declare to My people their transgression
And to the house of Jacob their sins.

Was Isaiah cursing the house of Jacob? No, he was not cursing the house of Jacob any more than Spying and I are cursing the house of Jacob.

As you have correctly observed, the curse is prophesied to end, and I can tell you that it has ended for a people that are NOW blessed. The end of the curse, and the blessing is for those who are of the True Seed of Abraham, Moshiach Yeshua. He is the one who is living by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of YHWH, and is no longer under the curse.

Traditional christianity is not part of this blessing yet, because they are like their mother (Judaism), and they believe in the "lie," where one can remain in disobedience and expect YHWH to bless them and not to curse them. That is part of your delusion Thummim, you expect to be blessed while you remain in your disobedience, and that will just not happen. The True Name of YHWH will not allow it. You need to ask us how you can come out from under the curse.

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim]

YHWH is his peoples righteousness.

...ImAHebrew posts;

It's the big picture that you need to look at. What Spying and I say concerning the disobedience of Judiasm does in no way render a curse, it is Elohim who ordains and renders the curse upon the disobedient. Here are some Scriptures that show some of YHWH's prophets declaring how His people are cursed because of disobedience. Are these prophets cursing YHWH's people (as you claim Spying and I are), or they just declaring the truth?

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...And if GD says that his people are not cursed? And if GD says that the sins of Israel are forgiven?

26 Help me, O YHWH my God: O save me according to thy mercy:

27 That they may know that this is thy hand; that thou, YHWH, hast done it.

28 Let them curse, but bless thou: when they arise, let them be ashamed; but let thy servant rejoice.

29 Let mine adversaries be clothed with shame, and let them cover themselves with their own confusion, as with a mantle.

30 I will greatly praise YHWH with my mouth; yea, I will praise him among the multitude.

31 For he shall stand at the right hand of the poor, to save him from those that condemn his soul. Ps. 109: 26 - 31

...If Jacob be cursed by YHWH, It is by him alone. But why do you and Spying rummage past 2500 years to make a curse against Jacob? GD already said that his people are righteous {Isa. 44: 22, 23}. He has already said that he is his peoples righteousness himself {Isa. 54: 17}. He has said that forgiveness comes to Jacob for his own sake {Isa. 43: 25}. Now what about your own righteousness. What became of Balak and the Moabites? You {and Spying} point your finger past Israel's righteousness so easily. I know where the righteousness of the JEWish people comes from. But where will your righteousness come from if GD already has forgiven his own Name?

...There is no way to gain forgiveness for breaking the law except through GD's own forgiveness.

30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously {deliberately}, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth YHWH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

31 Because he hath despised the word of YHWH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him {unless he has his GD's forgiveness}. Num. 15: 30, 31

...A blessing is the opposite of a curse. Linking YHWH's Name to the JEWish people comes with a blessing.

23 Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,

24 YHWH bless thee, and keep thee:

25 YHWH make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

26 YHWH lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Nu. 6: 23 - 27

...The Name of YHWH is upon his people or you wouldn't know what GD's Name is or where it comes from. The safest place for the JEWish people is being wrapped up in the Name of YHWH. It is not safe to dwell in the midst of christianity as you and Spying show in your desire to lift the skirt of the JEWish people to discover their sin. GD has his own Name covered with his compassion. After millions of JEWs perish among a flood of christian accusers, it has to be this way. It is not posible for a JEW to sin when GD will not allow the sin to exist. YHWH makes his people righteous! But then all righteousness comes from him.

9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.

10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith YHWH that hath mercy on thee. Isa. 54: 9, 10


17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end {until the end of the world}. Isa. 45: 17

...ImAHebrew and Spying, you just don't get it. Israel is all righteous now that GD's Name covers them. Accusing the JEWish people is like accusing GD. He is filling his cup of wrath for the mistreatment of his people.

1 But now thus saith YHWH that created thee, O Jacob, and he that formed thee, O Israel, Fear not: for I have redeemed thee, I have called thee by thy name; thou art mine.

2 When thou passest through the waters, I will be with thee; and through the rivers, they shall not overflow thee: when thou walkest through the fire, thou shalt not be burned; neither shall the flame kindle upon thee.

3 For I am YHWH thy God, the Holy One of Israel, thy Saviour: I gave Egypt for thy ransom, Ethiopia and Seba for thee.

4 Since thou wast precious in my sight, thou hast been honourable, and I have loved thee: therefore will I give men for thee, and people for thy life.

5 Fear not: for I am with thee: I will bring thy seed from the east, and gather thee from the west;

6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

7 Even every one that is called by my name: for I have created him for my glory, I have formed him; yea, I have made him. Isa. 42: 1 - 7

...Is this people being brought back to the land of Israel now? If so, they must all be righteous by GD's own words. This is called everlasting righteousness. But it is also the righteousness that christians refuse to cover JEWs with.

....Michael

[ImAHebrew]

Your beliefs on righteousness follow traditional "christianity."

Shalom Thummim,

There is just not enough time in the day to do everything that I would like to accomplish. This will have to be a short response. I hope YHWH is blessing you.

I would like to reiterate our differences on how the NAME of YHWH saves you, wraps you in safety, and gives you righteousness. You believe that some Hebrew consonants and vowels written in a certain physical form will save you, wrap you in safety, and give you righteousness. I believe that the NAME of YHWH is ALL of His WORD, and it is His WHOLE WORD that saves us, wraps us in safety, and gives us righteousness. It is just a matter of accepting and believing in His WHOLE WORD (His Name), and you will be saved.

Now, you are just like the traditional "christian," in that you believe that YHWH is mystically saving you IN your sin:

Thummim: It is not posible for a JEW to sin when GD will not allow the sin to exist. YHWH makes his people righteous! But then all righteousness comes from him.

Traditional "christianity" has the same concept. They beleive that GD has bad eyesight when it comes to looking at their sin, that He can't "see" their sin because He is looking at someone else's righteousness ("Jesus'".) They, and you make a fatal mistake in understanding the righteousness that comes from YHWH through His Name. The righteousness that comes from YHWH saves sinners OUT OF SIN, not in sin. Do you understand the difference? YHWH wants to redeem you OUT of sin. He wants to deliver you FROM Egypt, not IN Egypt. And that is yours and traditional "christianities" fatal mistake in understanding the righteousness that comes from YHWH. Would you like to learn of this righteousness, and be saved?

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim]

Don't let my body see corruption {the grave}

...IamAHebrew posts;

Would you like to learn of this righteousness, and be saved?

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...GD used to save people in this world. That is the salvation that I would like to see. Salvation that happens somewhere else rather than in this world is not what I seek. Where does the tanakh say that GD saves lives in any other way? Salvation belongs to "life". I have a sure witness of my own life. Saving "souls" does not come from the tanakh. GD doesn't save spirits. It is flesh that cries out for salvation.

....Michael

[ImAHebrew]

Salvation unto death?

Shalom Thummim,

What good is salvation if there is only death that awaits those that are saved? The salvation I believe in is a salvation that we receive while we dwell in our flesh, and results in eternal life. This salvation is a salvation or deliverance OUT OF sin. King David asks for this salvation:

Psa 19:12_Who understandeth his errors? Purify me from secret faults. 13_Keep back thy servant also from presumptuous sins; let them not have dominion over me: then shall I be perfect, and I shall be innocent from great transgression.

Psa 39:8_Deliver me from all my transgressions; make me not the reproach of the foolish.

Thummim, we all have been enslaved to sin, and it is YHWH's salvation to bring us out of that enslavement. When sin has dominion over your flesh, there is no salvation, only death awaits. But for those who have received the salvation of YHWH, deliverance OUT OF sin will bring life, and Daniel speaks of this everlasting life:

Dan 12:1 “Now at that time Michael, the great prince who stands guard over the sons of your people, will arise. And there will be a time of distress such as never occurred since there was a nation until that time; and at that time your people, everyone who is found written in the book, will be rescued.
2 “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt.
3 “Those who have insight will shine brightly like the brightness of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever.
4 “But as for you, Daniel, conceal these words and seal up the book until the end of time; many will go back and forth, and knowledge will increase.”
9 He said, “Go your way, Daniel, for these words are concealed and sealed up until the end time.
10 “Many will be purged, purified and refined, but the wicked will act wickedly; and none of the wicked will understand, but those who have insight will understand.
13 “But as for you, go your way to the end; then you will enter into rest and rise again for your allotted portion at the end of the age.”

Shine brightly Thummim and you will have an allotted portion to rise up for.

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Spying]

Life In The Flesh!

Hi Thummim,

Blessings to you and yours on this Sabbath Eve.

You once intimated to me on this forum that you suspected that ELOHIM was in the process of creating a new religion through our activity here. Well, there is nothing new under the sun save for the New Commandment (John 13:34).

That being said, your last comments have brought us to the newness and uniqueness of the love of Messiah and the salvation that HE has brought to the whole world.

There exists a way to renew your flesh and extend your life for an eternity. This way was not designed to permanently give us Eternal Life in the physical flesh that we do now each inhabit, but continued or constantly renewed life in the flesh is a benefit that does come for those who have been called and chosen by Messiah to practice the way.

I am one such, and I believe the same of you. We can overcome death in this physical life!

Be Blessed, Thummim, be blessed.

Sincerely, Ab

[Thummim]

Life is just planting seed to YHWH.

24 O YHWH, how manifold are thy works! in wisdom hast thou made them all: the earth is full of thy riches.

25 So is this great and wide sea, wherein are things creeping innumerable, both small and great beasts.

26 There go the ships: there is that leviathan, whom thou hast made to play therein.

27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.

28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.

29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

31 The glory of YHWH shall endure for ever: YHWH shall rejoice in his works. Ps. 104: 24 - 31

...GD plants life like we do seed.

5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern.

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it {to be returned to the earth in renewal?}. Eccl. 12: 5 - 7

...Leave it to man to burdon GD with conditions for the life he sows from the seed that he saves. So where does it say in the tanakh that we will dwell in GD's heaven with him, excluding the other possibility that we will return to the earth in renewed life?

....Michael

[Spying]

Our Holy Hill!

Hi Thummim,

Actually, my friend, in the Tanakh, it is exactly the opposite:

Exod 25:8
8 And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among them. (KJV)

Eph 2:21-22
21 In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in ADONAI:
22 In whom ye also are builded together for an habitation of ELOHIM through the Spirit. (KJV)

Exod 29:45-46
45 And I will dwell among the children of Israel, and will be their ELOHIM.
46 And they shall know that I am YAHWEH their ELOHIM, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that I may dwell among them: I am YAHWEH their ELOHIM. (KJV)

1 Cor 6:18-20
18 Flee fornication. Every sin that a man doeth is without the body; but he that committeth fornication sinneth against his own body.
19 What? know ye not that your body (the dwelling place of my spirit) is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of ELOHIM, and ye are not your own?
20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify ELOHIM in your body, and in your spirit, which are ELOHIM'S. (KJV)

Num 35:34
34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for I YAHWEH dwell among the children of Israel. (KJV)

Matt 15:18-20
18 But those things which proceed out of the mouth come forth from the heart; and they defile the man.
19 For out of the heart proceed evil thoughts, murders, adulteries, fornications, thefts, false witness, blasphemies:
20 These are the things which defile a man: but to eat with unwashen hands defileth not a man. (KJV)

Beseder, according to the tradition, the righteousness of the Rabbis, your hands should now be very clean before you physically eat. How do you cleanse your heart before you spiritually eat?

Ps 51:10-11
10 Create in me a clean heart, O ELOHIM; and renew a right spirit within me.
11 Cast me not away from thy presence; and take not thy holy spirit from me. (KJV)

Deut 12:11-12
11 Then there shall be a place which YAHWEH your ELOHIM shall choose to cause his name to dwell there; thither shall ye bring all that I command you; your burnt offerings, and your sacrifices, your tithes, and the heave offering of your hand, and all your choice vows which ye vow unto YAHWEH:
12 And ye shall rejoice before YAHWEH your ELOHIM, ye, and your sons, and your daughters, and your menservants, and your maidservants, and the Levite that is within your gates; forasmuch as he hath no part nor inheritance with you. (KJV)

Rom 15:16
16 That I should be the minister of YAHUSHUA MESSIAH to the Gentiles, ministering the gospel of ELOHIM, that the offering up of the Gentiles might be acceptable, being sanctified by the Holy Ghost. (KJV)

I have moved from Ellisville. I now dwell on the corner of High Street and Brackman (Brackish) Drive in Cedar Hill. Cedar Hill is not far from High Hill. The question is not so much whether or not I will go to dwell with ELOHIM when I die, but the question is whether ELOHIM does through HIS good spirit now dwell in me:

2 Chr 6:18
18 But will ELOHIM in very deed dwell with men on the earth? behold, heaven and the heaven of heavens cannot contain thee; how much less this house which I have built! (KJV)

Ps 27:4
4 One thing have I desired of YAHWEH, that will I seek after; that I may dwell in the house of YAHWEH all the days of my life, to behold the beauty of YAHWEH, and to inquire in his temple. (KJV)

Zech 2:10-13
10 Sing and rejoice, O daughter of Zion: for, lo, I come, and I will dwell in the midst of thee, saith YAHWEH.
11 And many nations shall be joined to YAHWEH in that day, and shall be my people: and I will dwell in the midst of thee, and thou shalt know that YAHWEH of hosts hath sent me unto thee.
12 And YAHWEH shall inherit Judah his portion in the holy land, and shall choose Jerusalem again.
13 Be silent, O all flesh, before YAHWEH: for he is raised up out of his holy habitation. (KJV)

Rom 11:26-27
26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins. (KJV)

Ezek 43:9
9 Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them for ever. (KJV)

Be Blessed, Thummim, Let us be blessed to dwell together in the in the same HOUSE forever!

Sincerely, Ab

[beseder]

Hi Spying, thats nice that you bring up a point- however, i dont even think you have it.

how can you even begin to DO spiritually, if you havent begun physically?

that simple.

in other words, what I am saying is it this-
you have no idea what is WRONG with Judaism- you just know that there is something wrong.
And because you know that there must be something wrong- you go off firing claims to their "idioticy" (that you give them as all christians do) and "incapacity" to reach these spiritual places that you thin that you are on- since you believe that know much more spirituality than they do.

so, you are completely wrong in your claims against them, for one!

two,
YOU CANNOT FULFILL SPIRITUALITY WITHOUT THE SHADOW (PROPHECY)
and Jews have the Shadow, and ARE THE SHADOW!

SALVATION COMES FROM THE JEWS and you have NO IDEA WHAT YOU WORSHIP...

this is my claim against you and all that think like you.

I will give you a few links so that you can possibly catch up to me.

http://invisionfree.com/forums/brokenword/index.php?showforum=27

In the thread below- the writting that you will read from INOrder, is taught by Hacham Dr.Yosef ben Haggai:

http://www.christianforums.com/t103125

and this is where I said much!

http://s6.invisionfree.com/Catalyst_Hip_Hop/index.php?showforum=3

and you can go here too:

http://www.intheholehegoes.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=767&hl=sojeru&

http://www.intheholehegoes.com/forums/index.php?act=ST&f=4&t=995&hl=sojeru&

have a good time reading

Shalom u'brachot
Antonio

[Spying]

Choice?

Hi Beseder,

Thank you for your reply and thank you for giving me an opportunity to catch up with you.

Jews are the light of the world. I liken them to the moon. They reflect the light of YAHWEH to this dark world in which we dwell. The light of YAHWEH is the fulfillment of HIS Word so the fulfillment of HIS Law or Torah enlightens the eyes and does cast shadows.

Jews have no choice in this role. They must follow the sun across the sky, and they must always present the same face to our world. If Jews obey, they give light to this world. If Jews disobey, they receive wrath according to the justice and mercy of YAHWEH. So, even in disobedience, they reflect the light of YAHWEH.

All those who reflect the light of YAHWEH will suffer in this world. If one is going to suffer, is it not better to suffer for obedience than to suffer for disobedience?

I will suffer through your links according to your word. Thank you for your light!

Sincerely, Ab

[beseder]

ahhh, so it looks like you have figured out what was wrong with the Jews...as in their disobedience...good, this is very beneficial for you and the world!

however, their disobedience is not their interpretation and how they render Torah [written and Oral] and Halachot (the way to walk out faith[ful obedience] to HaShem).

their disobedience is that they have stopped being light for 2000 yrs...kind of.

see, there is ONLY ONE group other then the group I am with that is a light to the world and are not guilty of disobedience!
Yet, they wont be able to enter Heavenly Jerusalem- for these are the feild workers- they wont be able to rule with Messiah as Ambassadors before the face of Messiah.

this group is a group from the Ashkenazim, they are the Chassidics (including the Chabad-lubavitchers) because they focus very much on outreach to the gentiles.

another group that is much like us, in fact we are a part of this tradition and people- yet, separated aswell, are the sefardics...
the sefardics (more-so the spanish -portugese Sefardics) do a quiet outreach to the gentiles yet they make sure to bring gentiles in...so these are a light aswell.

notice in Obadiah where he says

Oba 1:20 And the captivity of this host of the children of Israel [shall possess] that of the Canaanites, [even] unto Zarephath; and the captivity of Jerusalem, which [is] in Sepharad, shall possess the cities of the south.

Oba 1:21 And saviours shall come up on mount Zion to judge the mount of Esau; and the kingdom shall be the LORD'S.

you'd might like to go here to see a hint of these chassidic saviours.

http://www.heritagefilms.com/ARMENIA.html

So it is the sefardics of spanish-portugese tradition and it is the Ashkenazim of chassidic tradition

you have much to learn
yet you have many of the concepts already!!!

shalom u'brachot
Antonio

[Thummim]

Heaven or earth?

...Spying, I'm sorry for loosing this thread. I had forgotten that I had posted to it recently. The point that I was making is very valid. Man does not inherit GD's dwelling place. He inherits his own dwelling place {the earth}. At least that is the picture that these following verses of text give us.

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2 “Many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake {in this world}, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting contempt. Dan. 12: 2

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27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.

28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine hand, they are filled with good.

29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust.

30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth.

31 The glory of YHWH shall endure for ever: YHWH shall rejoice in his works. Ps. 104: 24 - 31

...GD plants life like we do seed.

5 Also when they shall be afraid of that which is high, and fears shall be in the way, and the almond tree shall flourish, and the grasshopper shall be a burden, and desire shall fail: because man goeth to his long home, and the mourners go about the streets:

6 Or ever the silver cord be loosed, or the golden bowl be broken, or the pitcher be broken at the fountain, or the wheel broken at the cistern. {a picture of death}

7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it {to be returned to the earth in renewal?}. Eccl. 12: 5 - 7

...When the righteous man arises to inherit life {his reward for living a good life}, isn't it in this world that he gains his new life? Where is Michael at when some are awarded everlasting life? He is with Danial's people. They arise in his location to recieve their lives. It is the righteous among these who are promised everlasting life, and the unrighteous that arise to shame. But it is upon the earth that this life is rewarded to the faithful. The above texts speak of GD replanting this earth. There is harmony here in the way that life is attached to the earth. GD dwells with man upon this earth, making it even more likely that it is the intent of GD that man dwell upon the earth that he has created. Man is like seed to be planted. But GD only plants the seed of his desire. The earth yeilds its increase, then GD gathers the seed and rebroadcasts it. It is a picture that those who tend and plant the earth are expected to understand. There is no account of christianities heaven, that man shares with GD, being given of here.

...Salvation belongs to life, and not to the spirit. It is flesh that is saved from death. It is spirit that is attached to flesh {an act of GD} that lives again. The spirit simply awaits its rebirth, its wedding to the flesh of this earth. That is the picture that these texts give us. When a man cries out for salvation, he is saying, "save my life". Perhaps "christians" believe in death more than they do life.

....Michael

[Spying]

Your Perpetual Course!

Hi Beseder,

Blessings to you! The moon is a shadow of ELOHIM'S people. It is the destiny of the moon to rule the night. When did the people of ELOHIM begin their quest to rule the night?:

Exod 12:2
2 This moon shall be unto you the beginning of moons: it shall be the first moon of the year to you. (KJV)

At the Exodus, Israel was a new moon. She dwelt in the Wilderness and few noticed her light.

Notice that the light waxes. Each day (every one hundred years), the light which is reflected to the world increases.

This light was full about 1400 years after the Exodus. Why? The Diaspora!

What begins to happen after a full moon? The light of the moon begins to wane until the moon no longer gives her light to the world. Was this the course or destiny of Judaism? Sure enough! As the dark ages advanced, the rabbis ruled that a Jew could completely hide his light and in good conscience profess to be a Christian in order to survive. So much for the moon ruling the night! That is, until the New Moon appears!

The moon is on a 29 and 1/2 day cycle. She has no choice in her destiny. She will perpetually wax and wane. Did a new moon appear? I have respect for the Hassidim.

What impact did Messiah Yahushua have on this perpetual cycle?:

Matt 5:14-16
14 Ye are the light of the world. A city that is set on an hill cannot be hid.
15 Neither do men light a candle, and put it under a bushel (the rabbis whom you follow did do exactly that), but on a candlestick; and it giveth light unto all that are in the house.
16 Let your light so shine before men, that they may see your good works, and glorify your Father which is in heaven. (KJV)

However, notice this:

John 8:12
12 Then spake Yahushua again unto them, saying, I am the light of the world: he that followeth me shall not walk in darkness, but shall have the light of life. (KJV)

Humm, it does appear that we do have conflicting statements? Whom do we follow across the sky? Judaism, whose rabbis have ruled that the moon can indeed deny and hide its light or Messiah Yahushua, the one whom the rabbis themselves have denied?

In this, you do have a choice!

Ps 81:1-4
1 Sing aloud unto ELOHIM our strength: make a joyful noise unto the ELOHIM of Jacob.
2 Take a psalm, and bring hither the timbrel, the pleasant harp with the psaltery.
3 Blow up the trumpet in the new moon, in the time appointed, on our solemn feast day. How can the new moon appear on a feast day, when the moon is either full or approaching full? Perhaps, Messiah himself broke the cycle, yes, no?
4 For this was a statute for Israel, and a law of the ELOHIM of Jacob. (KJV)

Sincerely, Ab