WE are HIS TEMPLE

[beseder]

a sign?
as in stars?
no

but proof? yes
no signs needed
where is the proof as to your claims
that is all that is needed
and you have yet to provide

you say you have no need to prove-
well- that shows me you have no proof
not even your LIFE theory is proof.

Is Avinu Avraham ALIVE?
if not then by your theory he is dead.
A sadducee, dont get mad at me, because its sad u cee-
the pagans gravity!


what is needed is teaching
what is needed is wisdom
what is needed is understanding
then shall a person have knowledge

to me it looks like you have ceased in its beginning and CLAIM to have all
I only have the first two
While the Jews have all
what do you have?
I am positive that you have attained none.

but this is turning into the same war as of long ago.
And really, I dont care much for it.

I am orderly in interpreting
you are not, nor is any that is associated with you.
How do you rightly DIVIDE the word of truth (Scripture- Torah writtings and prophets)?
I am positive you do not know how- for you read everything in the same level and degree.
You cant tell a rehmetz from a pshat, nor a midrash from a rehmetz, even more a Sod from either.

"your charity must exceed the charity of the scribes and pharisees"
yet, how can you exceed them if you do not even know how to rule like them- you must obviously be the superior, no?
this is the way it works!
I am also sure that you have not at all noticed that Righteousness is CHARITY or also called Justice
Charity is the highest form of Justice
and it is not in the gentile thought of the word to give charity.
gentiles have their own form- while Jews give Justice which is Righteousness (Tzedaka-charity)
Seek the Charity (Righteousness) of the Oral Tradition(Kingdom) established with the Rabbis by HaSHem (of G-D).
This is Middrash
yet you are no where near up to par
and thus we cannot speak

I have asked you continually to bring your arguement from Mark
yet you cannot
because you know not how to interpret scripture great sadducee.
You fall into the same trap as your forefathers the ancient saducees---


shalom u'brachot

[Spying]

Signs!

Hi Beseder,

No, my Son, not as in stars, but as with Tephillin (Exodus 13:9) and the Sabbath (Exodus 31:13,17) and the curses (Deuteronomy 28:46) as proof that we remember and know and as proof that we have sinned and not served YAHWEH ELOHIM with a whole heart.

Signs are proof positive. Rabbi Paul says this about his fellow Jews:

1 Cor 1:22
22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom: (KJV)

You yourself seek outward proof because of your Jewish heritage, and you are also moved to seek after the righteousness of the Torah (Deuteronomy 4:6) because of your Gentile heritage.

I am of Joseph, and in seeing me, you will not receive an outward sign save for the tears of compassion and love (charity, the doing of spiritual righteousness), that is, should you remain close to me. Even so, the righteousness of the Tzaddikim has already far exceeded the righteousness of the Jewish Rabbis. How so? It is as my elder Brother has written:

Rom 9:30-33
30 What shall we say then? That the Gentiles (the Tzaddikim and me), which followed not after righteousness (the physical doing of the Torah), have attained to righteousness (a doing of the Torah not seen by the Rabbis), even the righteousness which is of faith.
31 But Israel, which followed after the law of righteousness (the physical doing of the Torah), hath not attained to the law of righteousness.
32 Wherefore? Because they sought it not by faith, but as it were by the works of the law (The Rabbis readily hold to the form of the Torah, i.e. outward signs.). For they stumbled at that stumblingstone; (and the Rabbis yet stumble over that which cannot be outwardly proven or made manifest to their eyes, that is, a doing of the Torah that comes by faith. So, they may not recognize Messiah ben Joseph should they be blessed to see him!)
33 As it is written, Behold, I lay in Sion a stumblingstone and rock of offence: and whosoever believeth on him shall not be ashamed. (KJV)

Indeed, the Rabbis deny and have denied Messiah Yahushua, the Son of David; therefore, I say, shame on them!

Sincerely, Ab

P.S. You are absolutely correct. I have no idea of the difference between a rehmetz and the others.

[beseder]

Then how can you drive the Jews to jealousy if you are not better than they are even in what they know and practice?
Remember the ancient Hassidim?
This was the part of the pharisaic sect that had a different way of interpreting halachah and did "miracles" as His Majesty Yeshuah had also done.
I commend them greatly and the pharisees, though against them sometimes, had to commend them aswell- which is why some of the saying of the Hassidim are recorded in the Talmud.

Now, you have no idea to what extant my belief is concerning Orthodoxy- you dont know where it leans.
Though I have only showed you one side
And this one side is completely accurate and correct
I just havent given you the full story
AGAIN
how can you exceed the CHARITY (supreme Justice/righteousness) of the Pharisees if you do not know how to practice as they, nor practice as they?
We- all who fall under the tutelage of Messiah are called to be better.
THE CREAM of the Crop---that means that we are a part of the Crop of THOSE JEWS that you belittle so much...or rather, YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE since you claim His Majesty to be your messiah.

You are in the same error as the Christians...
I believe I understand exactly what Thummim means now.

You arent driving any Jew to Jealousy
Though you may make an already observant Jew to discuss with you- because Torah study is a great part of the Spirit of an Observant Jew,

So who are you supposed to be making Jealous?
The ones that arent observant!
the bridemaids- look at them and understand
those that are under the authority of Messiah have 5 specific missions to fulfill, and I dont see you angaged in it.
The Orthodox Jews responsibility is to engage in ONLY ONE!

shalom

[Spying]

Life Is!

Hi Beseder,

Happy Sabbath to you! Life is not a theory. Life is! Messiah Yahushua, the Son of David, has life, and Messiah Yahushua is in the process of giving life to the sons of Joseph. I am a son of Joseph, and I am a sprinkler. The Jews will carry me. I will not carry them.

Sincerely, Ab

[Spying]

The Dead Have Need Of Burial!

Hi Beseder,

Blessings to you and yours! Since the death of Messiah Yahushua, the Rabbis no longer sit in the Seat of Moses. They are all dead men until Messiah should choose to wake them up. The dead know nothing, and therefore the dead cannot make decisions for the living. Now, the living do make decisions for the dead, do we not? So, the living occupy the Seat of Moses, and what we say is binding.

The youngest child amongst the living is greater than the oldest Rabbi amongst the dead. They are greater because they serve according to the spirit. Service according to the spirit begins with the belief that Messiah Yahushua is alive. The Rabbis do not acknowledge that Messiah is alive. Nor do they acknowledge any complicity in his death. If they would acknowledge that their sin killed Messiah, then they would acquire the beginnings of spiritual righteousness. As Rabbi Paul states concerning them:

Rom 10:2-4
2 For I bear them record that they have a zeal of ELOHIM, but not according to knowledge.
3 For they being ignorant of ELOHIM'S righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of ELOHIM.
4 For Messiah is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.(KJV)

I have submitted myself unto the righteousness of ELOHIM. This righteousness is spiritual righteousness, and spiritual righteousness imparts eternal life. I have acknowledged my sin, and I have buried my dead body in baptism, that is, I have been immersed in the Word of ELOHIM by the power of the spirit of Messiah. Now, I help in sprinkling the Nations. Would you like some of my food?

Sincerely, Ab

[Spying]

Abraham!

Hi Beseder,

Concerning Abraham.

Abraham was gathered to his people. Who are the people of Abraham? The Pharisees? Maybe some, but surely not all! Remember this occasion?:

John 8:39
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Yahushua saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (KJV)

And what are the works of Abraham which he did do?:

Gen 26:5
5 Because that Abraham obeyed my voice, and kept my charge, my commandments, my statutes, and my laws. (KJV)

This is according to the standard of perfection commanded by YAHWEH ELOHIM:

Gen 17:1
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, YAHWEH appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty ELOHIM; walk before me, and be thou perfect. (KJV)

Concerning this perfection, the Torah teaches this:

Deut 8:3
3 And he humbled thee, and suffered thee to hunger, and fed thee with manna, which thou knewest not, neither did thy fathers know; that he might make thee know that (the) man doth not live by bread only, but by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of YAHWEH doth man live. (KJV)

Lev 18:5
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YAHWEH. (KJV)

So, Abraham, having died, yet he lives. (Matthew 22:32) How so?

This question is not answered by the dead. No man knoweth the things of the living save he be alive. If you have ears to hear, understand that you cannot learn life from the dead (those that sleep), rather only from the living!

Sincerely, Ab

[Thummim]

Perfect?, be "complete" does not mean be without sin.

"tamiym", entire or complete. {tamiym doesn't infer, "without sin"}

Gen 17:1
1 And when Abram was ninety years old and nine, YAHWEH appeared to Abram, and said unto him, I am the Almighty ELOHIM; walk before me, and be thou "perfect". (KJV)

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...Spying, Abraham was asked to be a person of "complete" integrity. He wasn't asked by GD to be sin free, but to be pure of heart and walk with GD uprightly.

Spying writes;

So, Abraham, having died, yet he lives. (Matthew 22:32) How so?

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...Abraham lives in that same way that a house is a part of its foundation. Abraham is the foundation that the faith and substance of the JEWish people is built upon. Remove this pillar and who would the JEWish people be? So Abraham lives in the existance of his people, as a father lives in the existance of his children. Without Abraham, the JEWish people would be "incomplete" and without a suitable foundation to rest upon.

...Without the father, the child doesn't exist and the tree dies. The father is life to his children.

....Michael

[Spying]

Blameless!

Hi Thummim,

I disagree! The sons of Israel are commanded to be holy (separate, distinct, Leviticus 19:2; 20:7, 26), and we are commanded to be perfect (Deuteronomy 18:13):

8549 tamiym (taw-meem');

from 8552; entire (literally, figuratively or morally); also (as noun) integrity, truth:

KJV-- without blemish, complete, full, perfect, sincerely (-ity), sound, without spot, undefiled, upright (-ly), whole.

It is not wise to lower the bar with respect to the perfection of Abraham. Abraham obeyed YAHWEH, and should you or anyone else deem themselves the "Seed" of Abraham, then you must of necessity duplicate the obedience of Abraham. This is so for several reasons:

Amos 3:3
3 Can two walk together, except they be agreed? (KJV)

Hab 1:13
13 Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on iniquity: wherefore lookest thou upon them that deal treacherously, and holdest thy tongue when the wicked devoureth the man that is more righteous than he? (KJV)

Clearly, Abraham by his obedience proved that he agreed with YAHWEH ELOHIM, and the eyes of YAHWEH did look and do still gaze upon Abraham as Abraham does walk before HIM blamelessly.

YAHWEH will not fellowship with those who do evil. YAHWEH will separate HIMSELF from those who are engaged in evil. Do you believe this to be true?

Sincerely, Ab

[Thummim]

Perfection is impossible!

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21 This people have I formed for myself; they shall shew forth my praise.

22 But thou hast not called upon me, O Jacob; but thou hast been weary of me, O Israel.

23 Thou hast not brought me the small cattle of thy burnt offerings; neither hast thou honoured me with thy sacrifices. I have not caused thee to serve with an offering, nor wearied thee with incense.

24 Thou hast bought me no sweet cane with money, neither hast thou filled me with the fat of thy sacrifices: but thou hast made me to serve with thy sins, thou hast wearied me with thine iniquities.

25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

26 Put me in remembrance: let us plead together: declare thou, that thou mayest be justified.

27 Thy first father hath sinned, and thy teachers have transgressed against me.

28 Therefore I have profaned the princes of the sanctuary, and have given Jacob to the curse, and Israel to reproaches.

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...GD associates with sinners. He forgives the transgressions committed against him at his own will. Being without a sacrifice doesn't mean the GD's forgiveness will not cover the shortcommings of a transgressor. Obviously GD intends to associate with transgressors, or he wouldn't have said that he will "forgive" them. GD's intent is seen in his words. He chooses what to forgive, and what he will not forgive. And then he associates with the transgressors that he has forgiven.

7 Keeping mercy for thousands, forgiving iniquity and transgression and sin, and that will by no means clear the guilty; visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children, and upon the children's children, unto the third and to the fourth generation. Ex. 34: 7

...GD doesn't ask perfection, just a willing and contrite heart. If GD asked "perfection", then he could neve be pleased.

....Michael

[Spying]

Et Tu Thummim

Hi Thummim,

Thank you for your reply. Will you also hold to the form of religion and thereby deny its power? Ah, the sad plight of the Jew and Christian! How will you ever enter into life?

These are the words of YAHWEH ELOHIM:

Deut 5:16
16 Honour thy father and thy mother, as YAHWEH thy ELOHIM hath commanded thee; that thy days may be prolonged, and that it may go well with thee, in the land which YAHWEH thy ELOHIM giveth thee. (KJV)

Lev 18:5
5 Ye shall therefore keep my statutes, and my judgments: which if a man do, he shall live in them: I am YAHWEH. (KJV)

Having these promises, why do you deny their promise and thereby choose death for yourselves?

Sincerely, Ab

[Thummim]

Has GD cursed the JEWish people?

...Spying, understand my answer.

5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; that ye may know the righteousness of YHWH.

...And what is the answer?

8 How shall I curse, whom God hath not cursed? or how shall I defy, whom YHWH hath not defied? Nu. 23: 8

...Why do you keep trying to curse GD's people by his own words? These are also his own words.

18 Who is a God like unto thee, that pardoneth iniquity, and passeth by the transgression of the remnant of his heritage? he retaineth not his anger for ever, because he delighteth in mercy.

19 He will turn again, he will have compassion upon us; he will subdue our iniquities; and thou wilt cast all their sins into the depths of the sea.

20 Thou wilt perform the truth to Jacob, and the mercy to Abraham, which thou hast sworn unto our fathers from the days of old. Mi. 7: 18-20

...So the lawbreaker does have hope. But what of those who curse GD's people by his own words? Is it really GD's intent, to create a law that would distroy his people before his own eyes?

4 My soul is among lions: and I lie even among them that are set on fire, even the sons of men, whose teeth are spears and arrows, and their tongue a sharp sword.

5 Be thou exalted, O God, above the heavens; let thy glory be above all the earth.

6 They have prepared a net for my steps; my soul is bowed down: they have digged a pit before me, into the midst whereof they are fallen themselves. Selah. Ps. 57: 4-6

....Michael

[ImAHebrew]

Remember Moshe's Torah!

Shalom Thummim,

You would do well to heed Spying's advice and Malachi's:

Malachi 4:1 “For behold, the day is coming, burning like a furnace; and all the arrogant and every evildoer will be chaff; and the day that is coming will set them ablaze,” says YHWH of hosts, “so that it will leave them neither root nor branch.”
2 “But for you who fear My Name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.
3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says YHWH of hosts.
4 “Remember the law of Moshe My servant, even the statutes and ordinances which I commanded him in Horeb for all Israel.

Checkmate Thummim. Spying agrees with Malachi, the wicked will be ashes under the soles of the feet of the Tzaddikim, and what Moshe had to say is very important. You cannot set aside the words of Moshe and think that YHWH is going to be please with disobedience. You are deceiving yourself if you think YHWH is going to accept anything less than perfection, and you are treading down a path that leads to destruction. Learn how to become a Tzaddikim, and you will be blessed.

Blessings in The Name,
ImAHebrew

[Thummim]

The day of YaHudaH comes, but for whom?

2 “But for you who fear My Name, the sun of righteousness will rise with healing in its wings; and you will go forth and skip about like calves from the stall.
3 “You will tread down the wicked, for they will be ashes under the soles of your feet on the day which I am preparing,” says YHWH of hosts.

...Those released from the stall are we JEWs. It is us who reveres the Name of YHWH. It is our own Name, YaHudaH that makes us a family tied to our GD. The ashes that we walk over are those of our enemies. The day of YaH{u"W"}daH happens because of the wrong done to Judah and Israel by the heathen.

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12 But thou shouldest not have looked on the day of thy brother in the day that he became a stranger; neither shouldest thou have rejoiced over the children of Judah in the day of their destruction; neither shouldest thou have spoken proudly in the day of distress.

13 Thou shouldest not have entered into the gate of my people in the day of their calamity; yea, thou shouldest not have looked on their affliction in the day of their calamity, nor have laid hands on their substance in the day of their calamity;

14 Neither shouldest thou have stood in the crossway, to cut off those of his that did escape; neither shouldest thou have delivered up those of his that did remain in the day of distress.

15 For the day of YaH" {u "W"} daH is near upon all the heathen: as thou hast done, it shall be done unto thee: thy reward shall return upon thine own head.

16 For as ye have drunk upon my holy mountain {being afflicted}, so shall all the heathen drink continually, yea, they shall drink, and they shall swallow down, and they shall be as though they had not been.

17 But upon mount Zion shall be deliverance, and there shall be holiness; and "the house of Jacob shall possess their possessions" {as with Egypt}.

18 And the house of Jacob shall be a fire, and the house of Joseph a flame, {thus the ashes under our feet} and the house of Esau for stubble, and they shall kindle in them, and devour them; and there shall not be any remaining of the house of Esau; for YHWH hath spoken it. Oba. 1: 12 - 18

...You need to research the day of YHWH a little better. GD delivers his people from the heathen oppressors that have wronged his people. This is also the context of Joel 3.

...ImAHebrew, You as well curse the JEWish people by GD's words. Balak has the heart of christianity. YHWH forgives, but whom will he forgive?

....Michael

[ImAHebrew]

Perfection is the Standard

Shalom Thummim,

I think we know each other rather well, and it will be a blessing to walk hand in hand with you.

We have discussed in great length how one reveres the Name of YHWH, and it is definaetly not one who sets aside or forgets the words of Moshe. Moshe declares that his words are not idle words and if a man does them, he shall live. The words of Moshe PROCLAIM the Name of YHWH, and that is why his words should be remembered. And this is what Spying and Malachi have spoken to you, yet you allow in your theology the same thinking that "christianity" allows:

Malachi 2:17.. In that you say, “Everyone who does evil is good in the sight of YHWH, and He delights in them,”
AND
3:14..“You have said, ‘It is vain to serve Elohim; and what profit is it that we have kept His charge.

You teach the same as "christianity." You repeatedly tell us how you (the Jews) are forgiven, yet you deny the power of a righteous life and claim perfection is impossible. YHWH does not delight in evil doers, whether they are heathen (christian) or Jews. This is who YHWH is looking for and what He wants in them:

Malachi 3:16 Then those who feared YHWH spoke to one another, and YHWH gave attention and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before Him for those who fear YHWH and who esteem His Name.(ALL of His Word)
17 “They will be Mine,” says YHWH of hosts, “on the day that I prepare My own possession, and I will spare them as a man spares his own son who serves him.”
18 So you will again distinguish between the righteous and the wicked, between one who serves Elohim and one who does not serve Him.

These are those who will remember the Torah of Moshe and have the wicked as dust under their feet.

Blessings in The Name (All of YHWH's Word),
ImAHebrew

[Thummim]

The good, the bad, and the ****

...ImAHebrew, YHWH punishes the good along with the bad. It doesn't depend upon what the followers do, but rather what their leaders do. When David sinned and counted the people, it was the people who paid for his sin. There was plague that followed David's trangression. When the people of Judah were carried off to Babylon, it wasn't because they offended GD, but rather because their leaders refused to honor the year of release. In Jer. chapter 24, we are told that the people are the good figs. When we move to chapter 34 of Jeremiah, we are told that captivity comes to Judah because of its leaders. When evil happens, it doesn't happen necessarily because one is bad. You should be judging the JEWish people by your heart, and not by your mind. GD calls his people good before captivity. GD forgives their sins when they leave captivity. You and Spying are like Balak that continually look for a curse against GD's people. But GD doesn't curse the "good" even when "bad" happens to them. The world is full of corruption and there is no way to escape it all. Even Moses and Aaron sinned. Even David sinned. But the people suffered these sins and others. Has anything bad happened to you lately?

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10 Now when all the princes, and all the people, which had entered into the covenant, heard that every one should let his manservant, and every one his maidservant, go free, that none should serve themselves of them any more, then they obeyed, and let them go.

11 But afterward they turned, and caused the servants and the handmaids, whom they had let go free, to return, and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids.

12 Therefore the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah from YHWH, saying,

13 Thus saith YHWH, the God of Israel; I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondmen, saying,

14 At the end of seven years let ye go every man his brother an Hebrew, which hath been sold unto thee; and when he hath served thee six years, thou shalt let him go free from thee: but your fathers hearkened not unto me, neither inclined their ear.

15 And ye were now turned, and had done right in my sight, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbour; and ye had made a covenant before me in the house which is called by my name:

16 But ye turned and polluted my name, and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom he had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.

17 Therefore thus saith YHWH; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith YHWH, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. Jer. 34: 10 - 17

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3 Then said YHWH unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

4 Again the word of YHWH came unto me, saying,

5 Thus saith YHWH, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull themdown; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am YHWH: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith YHWH, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:

9 And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them.

10 And I will send the sword, the famine, and the pestilence, among them, till they be consumed from off the land that I gave unto them and to their fathers. Jer. 24: 3 - 10

...What GD calls good, you shouldn't esteem bad. Bad things do happen to good people.

--> 1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you. Mal. 2: 1

...This instruction is not directed at the people, but at their leaders. They are the offenders.

....Michael