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**Raphu** · 06-06-2003, 03:12 AM

Hebrews 4:9 There remaineth therefore a rest to the people of God.
Hebrews 4:10 For he that is entered into his rest, he also hath ceased from his own works, as God did from his.
Hebrews 4:11 Let us labour therefore to enter into that rest, lest any man fall after the same example of unbelief.
***
Hebrews 8:6 But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.

Hebrews 8:7 For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.

Hebrews 8:8 For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:

A day is temporary and measured by 24 hours. The Lord is eternal and those that have Him are in Him and have rest from works to prove their righteousness. Since our sacrifices and offerings of righteousness were as filthy rags (IS.64:6), He has covered us with His own final sacrifice of blood and made us righteous through His once and for all sacrifice. The lamb was slain and resurrected to eternal life. Those that abide in Him are continually at rest in Him.

Notice, that Heb.8:8 mentions both houses.

**truth** · 06-06-2003, 06:02 AM

Not even the Hellenized Jew Paul has the right to undo the written word of YHWH!

Saul of Tarsus, Mithraic Cults, and Christ's Blood

http://www.sullivan-county.com/news/pmithra/index.htm

The original article posted here claiming that Apostle Paul was somehow involved in Mithrism was removed as pure trash. I removed it and replaced the material with the more scholarly work of Alison Griffith.

By the way,why do you think they call it "SUN" day?

**beseder** · 06-06-2003, 07:22 AM

paulos did not undo shabbat

you obviously do not care to read what Spying, Israel or myself has to say about the Torah defending defenders of the bible in the new testament.
NOTHING was done away with but the covenant that MEN in their sin have themselves done away with.
Hebrews is ONLY saying that the old covenant was faulty because of the peoples promise to GD that they broke- however, the new covenant is not- because it does not involve a promise made by the people to GD to keep his commands.
However that GD made a promise to His people- and He will fulfill His word that He himself will put it in the hearts for men to keep his commands- this way it will get done

now what other untorah like things do you see in besurat ha geulah (new testament)?

The Brit Hadashah survives completely from everything that is in the tanach
ALL OF IT.

It needed no pagan influence for it to be written as it was- it only needed tanach.
The brit hadashah is ONLY restating things from tanach in a fulfillment that ancient rabbis saw needed to be fulfilled.
YHshWH as a Pharisee would have already known about these that needed fulfilling- and after the reading from the haftarah of Isaiah- he revealed part of who he was.

the Brit hadashah is PURELY jewish
if it was written by apostates- why is there so much jewish culture in it- even if the scripture quotes were taken out?

This shows me that you know nothing of the hebrew culture- but i am glad that you do have a heart for Torah.

I pray that it wash your eyes from the gentile view of looking at the besurat ha'geulah

shalom u'bracha

**beseder** · 06-06-2003, 07:33 AM

another thing
what paulos uses as "the LRD's day"
was not used for the day of the unconguerable sun as of the 4th century by the 1st century believers

1 Corinthians 16:1,2 Paul is promoting a special project and is encouraging systematic saving on the part of Corinthian Christians. There is nothing to suggest that there is any sacredness attached to the first day of the week.

Revelations 1:10 "Kuriake Hemera" This term has come to be associated with Sunday. However in John's time the only day of the week which was given a name was the Sabbath, the rest were numbered. (Microsoft Encarta "Saturday") "In Sweden, ... Saturday is Lordag, or Lords Day; and in Denmark and Norway it is Lordag". (Microsoft Encarta 99 "Saturday")

It is interesting to note that Jesus referred to himself as the Lord even of the Sabbath Mark 2:27

God refers to the Sabbath as my holy day and the Lords holy day Isaiah 58:13.

Matthew 28:1 Clearly states the seventh day is the Sabbath.

In the absence of even the barest thread of evidence that God has changed his holy day from Saturday to Sunday in the New Testament it is safe to assume that John was in the Spirit on Saturday rather than Sunday.

so the new testament does not support sunday observance- yet the pedophilers/ the bishops of rome and alexandria conquered over (nicholaitanes) to rule over every assembly- thus the persecution and fasting of the true believers had begun

shalom u'bracha

**beseder** · 06-06-2003, 07:34 AM

what will be of these apostates?
Matthew 7:21-23 Not everyone who says to me, Lord, Lord will enter the kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will{TORAH} of my Father who is in heaven ...

shalom

**truth** · 06-09-2003, 07:00 AM

Yes the NT is a mix of Pagan mythology and tied to the Torah in many respects,and i agree there is some Jewish sources to some of these texts.

BUT, it's mainly christian/catholic doings that collected togather what is known as the Canon of the NT writtings, and it is certainly the Catholic church that changed the 7th day Shabbath into the First day of the week--- better known as the LORDS day aka. SUNday.

Mainly the NT is just a bunch of Myth!

Jesus?

The story that Mary (Miriam) the mother of Jesus was an adulteress was certainly not acceptable to the early Christians. The virgin birth story was probably invented to clear Mary's name. The early Christians did not suck this story out of their thumbs. Virgin birth stories were fairly common in pagan myths. The following mythological characters were all believed to have been born to divinely impregnated virgins: Romulus and Remus, Perseus, Zoroaster, Mithras, Osiris-Aion, Agdistis, Attis, Tammuz, Adonis, Korybas, Dionysus. The pagan belief in unions between gods and women, regardless of whether they were virgins or not, is even more common. Many characters in pagan mythology were believed to be sons of divine fathers and human females. The Christian belief that Jesus was the son of God born to a virgin, is typical of Greco-Roman superstition. The Jewish philosopher, Philo of Alexandria (c. 30 B.C.E - 45 C.E.), warned against the widespread superstitious belief in unions between male gods and human females which returned women to a state of virginity.

The god Tammuz, worshipped by pagans in northern Israel, was said to have been born to the virgin Myrrha. The name "Myrrha" superficially resembles "Mary/Miriam" and it is possible that this particular virgin birth story influenced the Mary story more than the others. Like Jesus, Tammuz was always called Adon, meaning "Lord." (The character Adonis in Greek mythology is based on Tammuz.) the connection between Jesus and Tammuz goes much further than this.

Most Christian denominations claim that Jesus was born on 25 December. Originally the eastern Christains believed that he was born on 6 January. The Armenian Christians still follow this early belief while most Christians consider it to be the date of the visit of the Magi. As pointed out already, Jesus was probably confused with Tammuz born of the virgin Myrrha. We know that in Roman times, the gods Tammuz, Aion and Osiris were identified. Osiris-Aion was said to be born of the virgin Isis on the 6 January and this explains the earlier date for Christmas. Isis was sometimes represented as a sacred cow and her temple as a stable which is probably the origin of the Christian belief that Jesus was born in a stable. Although some might find this claim to be farfetched, it is known as a fact that certain early Christian sects identified Jesus and Osiris in their writings. The date of 25 December for Christmas was originally the pagan birthday of the sun god, whose day of the week is still known as Sunday. The halo of light which is usually shown surrounding the face of Jesus and Christian saints, is another concept taken from the sun god.

Like Dionysus, the infant Jesus was wrapped in swaddling clothes and placed in a manger; like Dionysus, Jesus could turn water into wine; like Dionysus, Jesus rode on an ass and fed a multitude in the wilderness; like Dionysus, Jesus suffered and was mocked. Some early Christians claimed that Jesus had in fact been born, not in a stable, but in a cave--just like Dionysus.

the crucifixion story is again pagan mythology. The theme of a divine or semi-divine being sacrificed against a tree, pole or cross, and then being resurrected, is very common in pagan mythology. It was found in the mythologies of all western civilizations stretching from as far west as Ireland and as far east as India. In particular it is found in the mythologies of Osiris and Attis, both of whom were often identified with Tammuz. Osiris landed up with his arms stretched out on a tree like Jesus on the cross. This tree was sometimes shown as a pole with outstretched arms - the same shape as the Christian cross. In the worship of Serapis (a composite of Osiris and Apis) the cross was a religious symbol. Indeed, the Christian "Latin cross" symbol seems to be based directly on the cross symbol of Osiris and Serapis. The Romans never used this traditional Christian cross for crucifixions, they used crosses shaped either like an X or a T. The hieroglyph of a cross on a hill was associated with Osiris. This heiroglyph stood for the "Good One," in Greek "Chrestos," a name applied to Osiris and other pagan gods. The confusion of this name with "Christos" (Messiah, Christ) strengthened the confusion between Jesus and the pagan gods.

At the Vernal Equinox, pagans in northern Israel would celebrate the death and resurrection of the virgin-born Tammuz-Osiris. In Asia Minor (where the earliest Christian churches were established) a similar celebration was held for the virgin-born Attis. Attis was shown as dying against a tree, being buried in a cave and then being resurrected on the third day. We thus see where the Christian story of Jesus's resurrection comes from. In the worship of Baal, it was believed that Baal cheated Mavet (the god of death) at the time of the Vernal Equinox. He pretended to be dead but later appeared alive. He accomplished this ruse by giving his only son as a sacrifice.
The Last Supper myth is particularly interesting. As mentioned, the basic idea of last supper occurring at the Vernal Equinox comes from the story of the last supper of Osiris. In the Christian story, Jesus is present with twelve apostles.

In Egyptian mythology, Osiris was betrayed at his last supper by the evil god Set, whom the Greeks identified with Typhon. This seems to be the origin of the idea that Jesus's betrayer was present at his last supper. The idea that this betrayer was named "Judas" goes back to the time when the twelve apostles were still understood to be the sons of Jacob. The idea of Judas (Judah, Yehuda) betraying Jesus (the "son" of Joseph) is strongly reminiscent of the story of the Torah Joseph being betrayed by his brothers with Yehuda as the ringleader.

Lastly, the claim that the resurrected Jesus appeared to his disciples is also based on pagan superstition. In Roman mythology, the virgin born Romulus appeared to his friend on the road before he was taken up to heaven. (The theme of being taken up to heaven is found in scores of pagan myths and legends and even in Jewish stories.) It was claimed that Apollonius of Tyana had also appeared to his disciples after having been resurrected. It is interesting to note that the historical Apollonius was born more or less at the same time as the mythical Jesus was supposed to have been born. In legends people claimed that he had performed many miracles which were identical to those also ascribed to Jesus, such as exorcisms of demons and the raising to life of a dead girl.

I believe you can sum it up as Babylonian Mystery Religion!

**beseder** · 06-17-2003, 01:26 PM

oh yeah
something i just found out

Zoroaster was only a hebrew reject sent to exile from His own people.

that should intrest you some

shalom u'bracha

**truth** · 07-10-2003, 04:48 AM

It wouldn’t surprise me a Bit!

Shalom

**beseder** · 07-20-2003, 12:13 PM

Another thing ive learned is this.

Zoroaster, pushed, but not openly, that since the hebrews came from assyria/ashuri - aram
that the hebrews via avraham are a rejected people from aramea
sent into exile from the aramean lands to remember who they once were.
and then to be brought back to aramea when they remember.
hence the "return" of the northern tribes to assyria
and the southern tribes to Bavli

personally, to me, this does sound like the work of a hebrew reject/exile

did this influence, Yahudat?

i dont think so- not in any way- however the other way around.
For it seems that zoroaster was "frum" through and through yet what he practiced as far as works were a bit on the off side.

I forget in what book it is in- but many of his commandments coinside with Torah- and few do not ( i gues showing his personal view)

who knows he was probably one of the ones that stepped up to Moshe in rebellion against him and Aharon and escaped. lol

However, his belief did not influence Yahudat. And that i am sure of. I see that Yahudat greatly influenced his belief by pre-exilic writters such as YeshaYah and YirmeYahu

shalom u'bracha

**truth** · 08-06-2003, 04:14 AM

Lets get the facts!

Roman Catholic and Protestant Confessions about Sunday

The vast majority of Christian churches today teach the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, as a time for rest and worship. Yet it is generally known and freely admitted that the early Christians observed the seventh day as the Sabbath.
How did this change come about?

History reveals that it was decades after the death of the apostles that a politico-religious system repudiated the Sabbath of Scripture and substituted the observance of the first day of the week. The following quotations, all from Roman Catholic sources, freely acknowledge that there is no Biblical authority for the observance of Sunday, that it was the Roman Church that changed the Sabbath to the first day of the week.In the second portion of this booklet are quotations from Protestants. Undoubtedly all of these noted clergymen, scholars, and writers kept Sunday, but they all frankly admit that there is no Biblical authority for a first-day sabbath.

Roman Catholic ConfessionsJames Cardinal Gibbons, The Faith of our Fathers, 88th ed., pp. 89.

"But you may read the Bible from Genesis to Revelation, and you will not find a single line authorizing the sanctification of Sunday. The Scriptures enforce the religious observance of Saturday, a day which we never sanctify."

Stephen Keenan, A Doctrinal Catechism 3rd ed., p. 174.

"Question: Have you any other way of proving that the Church has power to institute festivals of precept?"

Answer: Had she not such power, she could not have done that in which all modern religionists agree with her-she could not have substituted the observance of Sunday, the first day of the week, for the observance of Saturday, the seventh day, a change for which there is no Scriptural authority."

John Laux, A Course in Religion for Catholic High Schools and Academies (1 936), vol. 1, P. 51.

"Some theologians have held that God likewise directly determined the Sunday as the day of worship in the New Law, that He Himself has explicitly substituted the Sunday for the Sabbath. But this theory is now entirely abandoned. It is now commonly held that God simply gave His Church the power to set aside whatever day or days she would deem suitable as Holy Days. The Church chose Sunday, the first day of the week, and in the course of time added other days as holy days."

Daniel Ferres, ed., Manual of Christian Doctrine (1916), p.67."

Question: How prove you that the Church hath power to command feasts and holy days?"

Answer. By the very act of changing the Sabbath into Sunday, which Protestants allow of, and therefore they fondly contradict themselves, by keeping Sunday strictly, and breaking most other feasts commanded by the same Church.'

James Cardinal Gibbons, Archbishop of Baltimore (1877-1921), in a signed letter."

Is Saturday the seventh day according to the Bible and the Ten Commandments? I answer yes. Is Sunday the first day of the week and did the Church change the seventh day -Saturday - for Sunday, the first day? I answer yes . Did Christ change the day'? I answer no!"Faithfully yours, J. Card. Gibbons"

The Catholic Mirror, official publication of James Cardinal Gibbons, Sept. 23, 1893.

"The Catholic Church, . . . by virtue of her divine mission, changed the day from Saturday to Sunday."

Catholic Virginian Oct. 3, 1947, p. 9, art.

"To Tell You the Truth."

"For example, nowhere in the Bible do we find that Christ or the Apostles ordered that the Sabbath be changed from Saturday to Sunday. We have the commandment of God given to Moses to keep holy the Sabbath day, that is the 7th day of the week, Saturday. Today most Christians keep Sunday because it has been revealed to us by the[Roman Catholic] church outside the Bible."

Peter Geiermann, C.S.S.R., The Converts Catechism of Catholic Doctrine (1957), p. 50."

Question: Which is the Sabbath day?"

Answer: Saturday is the Sabbath day."

Question: Why do we observe Sunday instead of Saturday?"

Answer. We observe Sunday instead of Saturday because the Catholic Church transferred the solemnity from Saturday to Sunday."

Martin J. Scott, Things Catholics Are Asked About (1927),p. 136.

"Nowhere in the Bible is it stated that worship should be changed from Saturday to Sunday .... Now the Church ... instituted, by God's authority, Sunday as the day of worship. This same Church, by the same divine authority, taught the doctrine of Purgatory long before the Bible was made. We have, therefore, the same authority for Purgatory as we have for Sunday."

Peter R. Kraemer, Catholic Church Extension Society (1975),Chicago, Illinois."

Regarding the change from the observance of the Jewish Sabbath to the Christian Sunday, I wish to draw your attention to the facts:

"1) That Protestants, who accept the Bible as the only rule of faith and religion, should by all means go back to the observance of the Sabbath. The fact that they do not, but on the contrary observe the Sunday, stultifies them in the eyes of every thinking man."

2) We Catholics do not accept the Bible as the only rule of faith. Besides the Bible we have the living Church, the authority of the Church, as a rule to guide us. We say, this Church, instituted by Christ to teach and guide man through life, has the right to change the ceremonial laws of the Old Testament and hence, we accept her change of the Sabbath to Sunday. We frankly say, yes, the Church made this change, made this law, as she made many other laws, for instance, the Friday abstinence, the unmarried priesthood, the laws concerning mixed marriages, the regulation of Catholic marriages and a thousand other laws."

It is always somewhat laughable, to see the Protestant churches, in pulpit and legislation, demand the observance of Sunday, of which there is nothing in their Bible."

T. Enright, C.S.S.R., in a lecture at Hartford, Kansas, Feb. 18,1884.

"I have repeatedly offered $1,000 to anyone who can prove to me from the Bible alone that I am bound to keep Sunday holy. There is no such law in the Bible. It is a law of the holy Catholic Church alone. The Bible says, 'Remember the Sabbath day to keep it holy.' The Catholic Church says: 'No. By my divine power I abolish the Sabbath day and command you to keep holy the first day of the week.' And lo! The entire civilized world bows down in a reverent obedience to the command of the holy Catholic Church."

Roman Catholic and Protestant Confessions about Sunday

http://www.biblesabbath.org/confessions.html

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