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"Fast" / "Afflict" : meaning

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  • replied
    My dear brother Hyssop!
    Thank you soooooooooooo much! That helped me so much! Sorry it took me so long... My PC was down a couple of days.
    When you get a chance... (know you are busy), could you please "jot" down other little grammar rules such as this. Just here and there, from time to time. I have 2 books Hyssop, but... for the most part I do not understand what they are saying! But I understand what you wrote exactly. I have copied it and put it in my "Hebrew" file. I can't tell you how much I appreciate that. On Eliyah's board, I have The Physicist trying to help me, but often he talks over my head. I am just not that smart! I often pray for understanding of Yah's true word. And at times I get so frustrated, especially when it comes to Hebrew. I say to myself I'm just gonna stick to the English... but then I find myself drawn to the Hebrew. O' I just love you Hyssop! I just love all of you. Yah has blessed me so much through all of you. Give everyone my love.
    I do hope all is well with you. May Yah bless you dear brother, and keep you always.

    Love,
    D'

    My dear sister Moses!

    Sticking to the word in Scripture... Yes.. you are right. I agree! So good to be contact again!
    I know what you are saying about the "grammer rules". But I'm not sure that these did not exist, but just weren't called "grammar rules". Ya know? I mean. The waw at the end of a noun could have always been their way of causing the noun to belong to someone. ie; "his". Granted, they may not have called it "noun" but it was still a "person, place or thing," none the less. a "waw" at the end of "heart", could have always meant "his heart". see what I mean? And I believe "context" is very important.
    The Physicist gave a good english example; "cleave". Can mean to stick together, or separate. So context is certainly the key here.

    As far as the letters all running together... well... I don't know. I really don't know.
    The pictures I have of the dead sea scrolls do have "breaks". It is not all one line. I did notice however they were "longer" words. Outside of the dead sea scrolls, I have never seen any pictures of the actual hebrew scriptures. So I really don't know.
    But the English lines up with so many things. And the more revelations that Yah gives in understanding the "spirit" word, I see the carnal word line up more, and more. So I just can't believe that it is all translated wrong. It just lines up too perfectly. I do see there are errors. But not to the extent that it is all wrong. As you know... I did fret over this quite a bit. When I first started working on the program that you sent me. (will always love you for that!; big smile) But then Yah showed me through many witnesses, and reminded me that ; "he is in us". "the kingdom is within". And not to fret too much about whats on the outside of us.
    I do know that the "word" of our creator, is His "son", or "Only begotten". For it was through His Word, that all things were brought forth. We all know that there is a certain amount of "power" in our words so to speak. One says something enough, it is sure to come about. And in the physical, the "sun/light" rises in the east and sets in the west. The "english" language that the bible is written in now, and is given to the four corners of the world... is a "western" language. And what mistakes or errors that are in it, I believe are overcome by the spiritual understanding of the word.

    I gave ImaHebrew the example: the carnal command to "pray toward the east". would be to pray for the rising of the son/word/light/ in us. see what I mean?

    Please forgive the time lapse... as you may have already read, my PC was having trouble.
    Talk to ya soon!
    Love ya! Yah bless you!
    your sis,
    D'

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Shalom my wonderful brother ImaHebrew!

    Please forgive the time lapse. But much study and prayer has gone into this post. It was almost 7 pages long! So I "edited" it. It's still long... I just can't seem to keep it short! There are so many scriptures that come to mind! Also my PC went out. It keeps over heating. I have a box fan blowing on it now... (LOL)

    Sounds like you are really "buried" these days... Well brother, you know what's next. (big smile).

    Well... no doubt you got a 'taste' of how I see "afflict your soul" in my last post. But I do want to go over your post. I know at times we perceive things differently dear brother. And though Yah 'changes not' His creation is full of variety, and color. This always in mind > " there is a purpose for every season ...".
    But even if I view things differently, I will do my best to show in scripture why. And know this;
    I love you. I shouldn't say " I ", but Yah in me, loves Yah in you. That is the truth.

    You show me > The fast that He desires is a fast from sin. Think along these lines. Yahushua said that His meat (food) was to do the will of the One that sent Him. <

    Yahushua also said, that the man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of El. So the eating IN of the food that sustained Yahushua was the DOING of what the Word said. Taking in and doing the will of Yahweh is the food we should consume. <

    " John 4:32 But he said unto them, I have meat to eat that ye know not of.
    4:34 Yahshua saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish HIS work."

    I realize you are getting this from this scripture. The meat is the "doing" of the word.
    But see... It is not something "we" ourselves can do. For Yahshuas' > testimony < was;
    "It is not > I < that doeth the works, but the Father IN ME, HE doeth the works. Yahshua BEING the Word, knew this. We are just starting to "receive" this meat. However... It must be "given" to us. Please bear with me. For this is in the face of "many" scriptures.

    Psalm 104:21 The young lions roar after their prey, and seek their meat from YAH.

    27 These wait all upon thee; that thou mayest give them their meat in due season.
    28 That thou givest them they gather: thou openest thine > hand, they are filled with good. 29 Thou hidest thy face, they are troubled: thou takest away their breath, they die, and return to their dust. 30 Thou sendest forth thy spirit, they are created: and thou renewest the face of the earth. 31 the glory of Yah shall endure forever: YAH shall rejoice in his works.

    Ps. 107:21 Oh that men would praise Yah for his goodness and for his wonderful works to the children of men!

    You see ImaHebrew... Yah rejoices in "His" works. Not ours. For there is no "work" that we can "work" in us, but the receiving of the Work Yah works in us. And this is what we are to pray for. For His word / son... to "rise" in us. This is why we are to pray toward the "East". Now we can physically pray toward a physical east. But this is not fulfilling the word of Yah. This is not "returning unto the house of David".

    But the "east" represents the "rising of the son, or The Word". So when we pray... we must not ask for "meat to fulfill our lust". To make our flesh righteous, or for a house, or this or that. (Physically) But pray as David did... "Toward the rising of the Word".
    >> "O' Yah, grant me thy law graciously". >> O' Yah, keep a lying tongue far from me."
    >> O' Yah, enlarge my heart that I may follow after thy commands <<. O' Yah keep a covetous heart far from me" < "O' Yah, I will follow after thy commands when thou hast enlarged my heart"< <
    This is praying toward the east. Or the "rising of the Word". (Son) For The Word, is truly the "seed" of Yah. The "First born". The Word of Yah, was / is .. truly the "only begotten". For it was the FIRST thing to proceed from Yah. For he "spoke" things into being. "let there be light."
    "And nothing was made that wasn't made by Him" (The Word).

    Yahshua (Yahs Salvation) was a "fulfillment" AND a prophecy! (rev. 19) Of the Word made flesh. Or the Word "rising" in us. Again.... it is a gift. Not a work that we wrought and then are rewarded for it. But a gift that we continuously and forever praise Yah for. For He rejoices in "HIS" work. And shares that "joy" with us. This is the "meat". The understanding of the Spirit, Yahs Spirit! But when we put it on our selves, then the "meat" or the gift is taken from us. For our own sakes, that we remember just "who" it is that is doing the > Doing <.

    Eze. 16:19 My meat also which I gave thee, fine flour, (bread/word) and oil (spirit/quickening) and honey (joy), wherewith I fed thee, thou hast even set it before them (idols/others) for a sweet savor: and thus it was, saith Yah..

    (This "meat" that is a "gift", that Yah gives, man takes and gives credit to another, whether it be to a preacher, an idol, or themselves. Reading all of Eze. 16, will show forth it is speaking of the carnal "churches", any of them. "The building of the eminent places in every street". )

    Joel 1:16 Is not the meat cut off before our eyes, yea, joy and gladness from the house of our El?

    Ps. 145:15 The eyes of all >wait< upon thee; and thou givest them their meat in due season. 16 Thou openest thine hand, and satisfiest the desire of every living thing.

    Ezekiel 34:10 Thus saith YAH: Behold, I am against the shepherds; and I will require my flock at their hand, and cause them to cease from feeding the flock; neither shall the shepherds feed themselves any more; for I will deliver my flock from their mouth, that they may not be meat for them.

    Mostly I was just pointing out that "fast/afflict", was not truly about abstaining from physical food.

    Zech 8: 18 And the word of Yah, El of hosts came unto me, saying,
    19 Thus saith the El of hosts; The fast of the fourth month, and the fast of the fifth, and the fast of the seventh, and the fast of the tenth, shall be to the house of Judah joy and gladness, and cheerful feasts; therefore love the truth and peace.

    It was only yester morning that I woke to the dawn of the morning. My window facing the east, I opened my eyes to see the most beautiful "red" sky. It reminded me of "the blood". As I watched, the red turned to a bright red/yellow.. it truly looked like fire. It was then that Yah revealed to me what "praying to the east" was all about. (and I truly had wondered about that!) For only that which is physical can "bleed". And "flesh and blood" shall not enter the kingdom of heaven. Therefore the blood must be shed, or the physical. Then the "fiery trials", come upon us, whereby we are "excersized" with. When we pray toward the rising of the Word in us, as David did.
    (for we all go through our "Job", and much of "Job" is to be learned. For the first thing his "counselors" did, was insist this was due to sin. But we know it wasn't. It was a manifestation of the "flesh/ physical" being taken away.)

    But see... "all things, (including sin) work together, for the GOOD to those that love him."

    "If a man loves me, he will keep my words"
    "these are the Words that I spake unto you while I was yet with you, that all things, must be fulfilled in the Law, and in the Prophets, and in the Psalms concerning ME." Who is "me"? The Word. (Notice it does not say; "concerning you".)

    The Word is the "seed". That is buried in us. (earth darkness) And resurrects in us. But it does not "resurrect" as it went in. No more then a "seed" comes out a big seed, but transforms. For it is not our "flesh" that is to be saved, but our spirit/soul.

    Like the command to pray toward the east... went into us a "carnal" command. But resurrects in us as unto spiritual. "Praying toward the rising of the Word of Yah." Which truly "transforms" the hearts of men.

    And what is the true word of Yah? "I Yah, do all these things". "beside me, there is no other".
    For when we "look" at the works of our hands, we see only vanity, sin and death. But when we look to the work of Yah's hands... There is no sin in Yah. Though we are "shaped and formed in iniquity", >> "We are "perfectly, and wonderfully made". For Yah does make man in His Own Image. And if we look to HIM for the "making of us". For the "Meat". He shall not / CANNOT fail.

    So... the true fast > "clothe the naked". You and I know that "nakedness" is sin. For Yah is our "covering". Notice Adam and Havah (Eve) made their own clothes "first". But then Yah Made them clothes! For Yah is our covering.
    The only way to truly "clothe the naked", is to show forth the works of Yah! Not the works of ourselves. Not the "works" of them. But Yah. And that not by our hand may things come about... but only by HIS. This is "clothing the naked".
    "to deal thy bread to the hungry"... This is "bread/meat/food" that has been GIVEN us by Yah. For it is not simply the carnal word of Yah, but to "deal > thy < bread". This is to say, revelations/understandings that Yah has "given" us, we are to give to others.
    There is certainly nothing wrong, yea even RIGHT to deal physical bread/food to the hungry, but this will only satisfy the flesh... but later in scripture Yah repeats it this way; "to stretch out thy soul to the afflicted".

    You are right in that to keep the "Sabbath Holy" > Is 58:13 - "If thou turn away thy foot from the Sabbath, from doing thy pleasure on my holy day; and call the Sabbath a delight... Not doing thine "own" ways, nor finding thine "own" pleasure, nor speaking "thine own " >> words.
    >> Then shall thou delight thyself in Yah; <<

    Once we truly realize that all things come by Yah, and we are not our own. That we have no "power". (For we are dead! A dead thing has no power! But Yah in us is life! For all powers, principalities, and dominion belong to Him... It is not by our hand that we shall walk upright but by HIS. Then our pleasure, and our ways, and our words, are no longer ours, but His! And we truly DO "delight" ourselves in Yah. (Though this is another post all together, it truly goes hand in hand) Look at the "carnal" Sabbath Law. "Ye shall do no work, ye shall not buy nor sell, nor "light a fire" in your habitaitions" (paraphrased of course.) We cannot "work" our way, buy our way, sell our way... not even "purge" (fire) our way. For it is not in our "hand". But His.
    What does "Sabbath" basically mean? Rest!
    Why and "how" did Esau sell his BIRTHRIGHT for a "morsel" of bread? Think about it.

    "Mercy, covers a multitude of sins". Why? Because we receive of His FULNESS "mercy, for mercy." (John 1) What shall we "feed" the hungry with, if not the Word of Yah? For we cannot "feed" them or deal bread to them, if their bread is "their" doing something.
    Did you know that "bread" and "meat" are the same word?

    "Beside me, there is no other."

    When reading Zechariah "when ye fasted or when ye ate, did you > unto Me ?< Even unto Me?

    Oh ImaHebrew, I trembled at this. Do I eat or not eat unto Yah? or unto myself? More and more I understand Yahshua saying; "Let not your left hand see what your right hand does." For we are not to look to the right or left... but to Yah. And trust in His goodness!

    This is getting long... and yet there are many other scriptures. But... "The key of David"... the "Turning from the transgression of Jacob"... "The Re-turning unto the house of David". "The resurrection of the Son/Word. Are all very, very, closely related. One confirms the other.

    "Loose the bands of wickedness"... One of the "main" definitions for wickedness is "violence".
    What I have found often works is; When I see someone really angry with another for something, and they want to "do" something to them. I simply say; "Hey now... forgive so that ye may be forgiven. and you and I both know we have much we need forgiven"! (with a smile).
    And then I say; If you ASK Yah to take away the anger, He will."
    You would be surprised how often this truly works! Yahs word does not return void! (smile)

    Love you so much! Yah bless you dear ImaHebrew, and keep you always.
    your sis,
    D'

    "The glory of YAH shall be his reward".


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  • replied
    Dear DeAnna,
    It is so good to be sharing the forum with you. I'll do all I can do to keep from make you mad at me. OK

    You wrote:
    >>can "waw" at the end of a word also mean "and/therefore", or is this just when it is at the beginning of a word?<<

    The original writings weren’t broken down into groups of letters making a word it was all one long line of letters. Therefore a waw can mean therefore/and at any point. The new rules that have been applied to the language are just that NEW and weren’t there at the time of the Holy writings.

    You wrote:
    >>Now my program does not have "T,ay,n,h". Moses, does your Eytomology dictionary have it?<<

    My reply:
    There is no such word as taw ayin nun he.

    You wrote:
    >>Dear Moses, the word/ definition you gave for afflict... notice what it says it is "from".
    H6040 and 6041 (ay,n,y) `oniy {on-ee'} ¤ from 06031; 1) affliction, poverty, misery, poor, humble, wretched, needy, weak, lowly<<

    My reply:
    I see that the word that is the root of this word has the same or close to the same meaning but, where do we get the idea that a word now called a root word is the meaning to be used, especially if that word can’t be found within the original word? Even if the “so called” root word has the same meaning as the word given, why stray from the “True” “Word” given in the text? Are we to translate the word of God by using words that aren’t in the text itself? Have we been given this kind of freedom with the word of God?

    DeAnna check this out. Ahleph lahmed:=God, these, power
    Lahmed, ahleph:=no, not
    Soooo take the translation you have and replace the “did not” with God.

    “Because thou God answered from the heart and grieved the children of men.”

    "Because thou did not answer from the heart and greived the children of men."

    You wrote:
    >>>Don't hold back you guys... tell me what you find.<<

    My reply:
    You know that your good friend and sister Moses doesn’t hold anything back. I only hope this doesn't end up in an arguement. hehehe
    Hugs and kisses to you, Don and Ryan.

    Loves to Ya, Moses

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  • replied
    D',

    I have not had near enough time to examine much of your quite detailed posts regarding the interpretation of the Hebrew. However, you asked the question:
    The 4th. word in scripture is "Mem; lamed, beth, waw": They only translate "LB".
    But, Mem: means; from/of / out of
    I cannot find a "L,b,w" so I am forced to accept "L,b" only as they have translated, which I have found the "waw" dropped often. This is why I ask can it mean "and/therfore" at the "end" of a word.
    SO....
    Lamed, beth: # 3820 leb {labe} 1) inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding 1a) inner part, midst, soul, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory 1a5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will) 1a6) conscience, as seat of appetites 1a9) as seat of emotions and passions 1a10) as seat of courage
    The literal interpretation of the word, Mem; lamed, beth, vav is: "from his heart" (thus, translated "willingly"). The vav at the end of the word is the possessive suffix added to the noun, and means "his." So, the vav does not mean "and/therefore"; further, I do not think that a vav at the end of a word would ever mean that. Another example of vav at the end of a noun would be the possessive suffix "nun, vav" which means "our." There are many reasons for a verb to end with vav that I can't, for the sake of time, get into right now. Hope this helps.

    With love in Yahushua's name,

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  • replied
    Hey Sandy! Great! I have been studying this for 2 days solid! Some info may not be all that necessary, but wanted to show that I did indeed "study to show myself approved". Let me know what you think, or what you find. Okay?
    Talk to ya soon, Yah bless!
    D'

    Hey Moses! Yes... CALL ME! or mail me, I need your email again. Lost everything with the move. Oh how I have thought of you! Your on my mind so often!
    Did you see the new "tabernacle" post yet? Did you like it? I think it's the best one yet! Yah showed even more detail etc. Printed it this time as to not loose it again... (smile). Do you still have the old one?
    Well... got a lot of info here, so I'll get to posting it.
    Love ya! Talk to you soon!
    D'

    ImaHebrew! Shalom my dear brother. How I've missed you and thought of you!
    Will be writing to you next. Want to make a separate post in response to yours.
    Love you!
    Your sis,
    D'

    Anyone,
    So I don't forget... can "waw" at the end of a word also mean "and/therefore", or is this just when it is at the beginning of a word? anyone know?

    (6030 and 6031) ayin,nun,heh (used 50 times; 7 time in Gen.and 1time in 1Ch. 1;41 as a name; "anah". So.. 8 times as a name "anah".

    Scriptures translated from # 6031 ;Ex. 22:23 "afflict", Deu 22:24"humbled" neihbors wife, Deu 22:29 "humbled" her, 2Sam 13:22: "forced" his sister,
    Psa 102:23 "weakened", Lam 3:33 "afflict" >which I suspect may read differently< more on this scripture later, Eze 22:11 "humbled" his sister

    So here we have 6031 being translated 7 times but only TWO of them are actually "afflict", and one of those (Lam.) is highly questionable. (to me anyway) All other "anah" words are translated from 6030 as "speak,testify,witness or answer".
    All of these equalling; 36 times. They are as follows >
    # 6030; Deu. 19:18, Jdg 19:28,Rut 1:21, 2Sam 1:16, 1Ki 18:26,18:29, Pro 25:18, 26:5,Sol 2:10, Jer. 23:35, Dan 2:5, 2:8, 2:15, 2:20, 2:26, 2:27, 2:47, 3:14, 3:19, 3:24, 3:25, 3:26, 3:28, 4:16(twice), 4:27, 5:7, 5:13, 5:17, 6:13, 6:17, 6:21, 7:2,
    Mic 6:3, 6:5 )

    Why is the above important? Well... because all other words that they translate as "afflict" state that it is from # 6031 when the actual word 6031 "anah" is written 50 times and only twice does it mean "afflict". See what I mean?

    tau,ayin,nun,heh (Gen 31;50, Ex. 22:23, Lev 23:29, all translate this word "afflict", from # 6031. However the "exact" word in Ex. 20:16, Deut. 5:20 "thou shalt not bear false witness" is used for "bear" or to "testify" falsely, exact word in Ex. 23:2 is trans. "speak", exact word in 1Sam. 26:14, Job 16:3 is; "answerest" and in Psa 22:3, Psa 38:16 and Hos 2:24 all trans. as "hear". So 8 scriptures translate this very word from 6030 and only 3 translate it from 6031 "afflict".

    Now my program does not have "T,ay,n,h". Moses, does your Eytomology dictionary have it?
    ayin,nun,tau,waw (Ex. 1:11, "afflict them with their burdens", 2Sam 13:32 "forced" his sister Tamar. )

    tau,ayin,nun,waw,nun (Ex. 22:22) One time only, and it reads; Ye shall not "afflict" the widow or fatherless.

    People, do we realize that the above is saying we shall not "humble, force, humialate, cast down, weaken, burden etc. the "widow" or the "fatherless", which to me is anyone that we would think does not have Yah. Which means no pointing fingers! (grin)

    Tau, ayin, nun, waw (Lev. 16:29; One time only;
    "aflict your souls".)
    waw;(and/therefore) ayin, nun, yod, tau, mem (Lev. 16:31, Lev. 23:27, Lev. 23:32, Num. 29:7, All say "afflict your souls" but > 1 Ki 12:7 "answer" them)

    Lemed; (unto) ayin,nun,tau (Num. 30:13)

    *the above L; ay,n,t > "L" is unto. ay,n,t is 6067 (Anath) from 6030 meaning "answer" and says it is "father of Shamgar". But again this word is translated as "afflict", though I have no idea how.

    Dear Moses, the word/ definition you gave for afflict... notice what it says it is "from".
    H6040 and 6041 (ay,n,y) `oniy {on-ee'} ¤ from 06031; 1) affliction, poverty, misery, poor, humble, wretched, needy, weak, lowly

    H6031 (ay,n,h) `anah {aw-naw'} ¤ a primitive root [possibly rather ident. with 06030 through the idea of looking down or browbeating]; 1) to be occupied, be busied with 2) to afflict, oppress, humble, be afflicted, be bowed down, to be put down, become low, to be depressed, be downcast, to stoop, to humble oneself,
    bow down, to be afflicted, be humbled, mishandle,
    be humiliated, to weaken oneself.

    (I took out the "duplicates" and the "qals" etc. to make for easier reading.)
    Now >>
    H6030 (ay,n,h) `anah {aw-naw'} ¤ a primitive root; 1) to answer, respond, testify, speak, shout, to testify, respond as a witness, to be answered, receive answer, to sing, utter tunefully, to dwell

    H6035 (ay,n,w) `anav {aw-nawv'}from 06031;
    1)poor, humble, afflicted, meek, needy, weak and afflicted, lowly

    H3013 (y,g,h) yagah ¤ a primitive root;
    1) to afflict, grieve, suffer, cause grief, grieved, grieving (participle), to grieve, cause sorrow

    The above is a prim. root, that is more appropriate for the kind of affliction "suffer". Whereas I believe the other "anah" = afflict, is truly "humble", lowly, meek etc.

    But the point is: None of these say "to abstain from food"! For "How" would abstaining from physical food "afflict" or humble the SOUL? This would afflict the physical body, and give us a headache, and lack of energy, and make us want to sleep. But to afflict or "humble" or "cast down" ones soul, is to cry unto Yah and say; "O' Yah, what a wretched soul am I, who shall save me from this body of sin and death if not thee? For I am low and needy and weak, but thou art strong and mighty, and thou art my strength yea even my salvation. For it is not by I, a poor, weak, needy being that salvation does come, and it is not by my hand that my strength does come, but it is by Thee O' Yah, by thy hand and by thy spirit that all good things do come! And > this< is also the "fire" offering, offered up unto Yah, for inside when we see how lowly we are, we do burn and yearn for His salvation.

    And every soul who does not do this, (confess that they are a sinner, and weak, and lowly), then this soul shall be cut off... for they are not looking unto YAH for HIS salvation, but unto themselves, and therefore cannot 'humble' themselves.
    This is the Atonement, whereby sins are forgiven, and our dept wiped clean, when we turn unto Yah and unto HIS salvation, when we recognize that we are so nothing, and what great love doth the Father have unto us that he should even bother with man. This is 'afflicting' ones soul.

    Psalm 8:4 What is man, that thou art mindful of him? and the son of man, that thou visitest him?

    If one reads Psalm 40, one will see David "afflicting" his soul.
    Notice in psalm 40 David claims > no < strength of his own, but ends it with "But I am poor and needy; yet Yah thinketh upon me: thou art my help and my deliverer; make no tarrying O' my Yah."

    Rev. 3:15-17 "I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would that thou were cold or hot. So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. Because thou sayest, I am rich, and increased with goods, and have need of nothing; and knowest not that thou art wretched, and miserable, and poor, and blind, and naked:"

    These are they that need to "afflict" or "humble" their soul. in a hurry. (smile).

    Okay, Lamentations 3:33 (as promised)

    # 3588 kaf,yod: kiy {kee} ¤ a primitive particle; 1) that, for, because, when, as though, because that, but, then, certainly, except, surely, since, yea, indeed,
    when, if, though, since, but (after negative) 1e) that if, for if, indeed if, for though, but if 1f) but rather, but 1g) except that 1h) only, nevertheless 1i) surely 1j) that is 1k) but if 1l) for though 1m) forasmuch as, for therefore

    # 3808 aleph,lamed: neg. no, not, nor, nothing, without

    "anah" # 6030 or 6031(AV says 6031) So.. it can be: afflict, humble, etc.
    OR: to speak, answer, shout, sing etc.

    The 4th. word in scripture is "Mem; lamed, beth, waw": They only translate "LB".
    But, Mem: means; from/of / out of
    I cannot find a "L,b,w" so I am forced to accept "L,b" only as they have translated, which I have found the "waw" dropped often. This is why I ask can it mean "and/therfore" at the "end" of a word.
    SO....
    Lamed, beth: # 3820 leb {labe} 1) inner man, mind, will, heart, understanding 1a) inner part, midst, soul, knowledge, thinking, reflection, memory 1a5) inclination, resolution, determination (of will) 1a6) conscience, as seat of appetites 1a9) as seat of emotions and passions 1a10) as seat of courage

    So Far: > because, not, humble/speak, from; the heart, inner man, soul

    I believe this to be "speak/testify/witness from the heart" and not "humble" from the heart. Because if one is not "humble from heart" then one is not humble. But one can "speak" and it not be from the heart. See where I'm coming from?

    5th. word: waw, yod, gamel, heh >
    waw: (and) 3013 yagah {yaw-gaw'} ¤ a primitive root; 1) to afflict, grieve, suffer, cause grief, cause sorrow

    6th. Word: b,n,y: - a,y,sh "children of men".

    Soooo... I believe this to say;

    "Because thou did not answer from the heart and greived the children of men."

    I've been translating the before and after scriptures as well... and it seems to all fall in line with this. Now.. I have started from the beginning of the chapter. (smile)

    Next is "Fast". (After I write my dear brother ImaHebrew, and my new friend Bratu, on another thread.

    Don't hold back you guys... tell me what you find.

    So excited! (smile) Goodness! Who could ever get bored with Yah?
    Yah is so Good. May we all sing a new song unto Him.

    In Yahshua (The Word)
    D'

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Welcome DeAnna

    Shalom my Beautiful Sister,

    It is so good to see you here DeAnna!! You are needed here and you will be a great blessing to all. How is Don? I hope he is recuperating well? And Ryan? Hope he is learning a lot. How's your winter been? Much snow in the East? It's been a rough cold winter here in St. Louis.

    As far as what's going on with me, my life is a little upside down right now. I still have several jobs finishing (in my construction business), and I am in training to change careers to become a kitchen and bath salesman for a large construction company. I have been in class all day long (just for bath sales) then I go out in the evening and accompany full-fledged salesmen on their calls. This last week I started to make calls on my own, and I sold 2 jobs (thank you Father). I still have to train for the kitchen sales, but I think it will be pretty easy considering my background in construction.

    I do have to ask your forgiveness concerning my failure in communicating with you sooner (although, you are still always in my thoughts and prayers). I am so thankful that you are online now and we can converse here as we have done so before. I would also like to welcome MOSES to the Forum (hope you are reading this Moses), and to Sandy, I would like to say that I do owe you a response on the "Wave Sheaf" thread, and to please be patient.

    DeAnna, we too have given considerable thought into the fasting/afflicting oneself for Atonement. The Scriptures you brought up were very good. Especially the one where Yahweh tells us about the fast that He desires. The fast that He desires is a fast from sin. Think along these lines. Yahushua said that His meat (food) was to do the will of the One that sent Him. Yahushua also said, that the man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of El. So the eating IN of the food that sustained Yahushua was the DOING of what the Word said. Taking in and doing the will of Yahweh is the food we should consume. It is very healthy for us, it will make us healthy, wealthy, and wise. This is the food of a person who lives according to the Spirit, and Yahweh would not want us to fast from this food. But to the person who lives according to their fleshly desires, isn't the food that they consume, taken in to feed what the flesh wants? They eat in injustice, the bands of wickedness surround them, they have heavy burdens on themselves and they lay them on others as well, and the yoke of sin controls them. The fast that Yahweh wants sinners to perform, is a fast from consuming the food of sin. This atones for sin. When one starts doing what is right and just, they are fasting from that former life, and this change accomplishes the Atonement. Yahushua set us a path to follow in finding this Atonement, and if we remain in Him, fasting from our former ways of life, the Atonement will be fulfilled.

    And it's not strange concerning the affliction that is caused by this fasting from sin. Consider what Peter said:
    1 Peter 4:12 Beloved, think it not strange concerning the fiery trial which is to try you, as though some strange thing happened unto you:
    13 But rejoice, inasmuch as ye are partakers of Messiah's sufferings; that, when his glory shall be revealed, ye may be glad also with exceeding joy.
    14 If ye be reproached for the name of Messiah, happy are ye; for the spirit of glory and of Elohim resteth upon you: on their part he is evil spoken of, but on your part he is glorified.
    15 But let none of you suffer as a murderer, or as a thief, or as an evildoer, or as a busybody in other men's matters.
    16 Yet if any man suffer as a Messiahian, let him not be ashamed; but let him glorify Elohim on this behalf.
    17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of Elohim: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of Elohim?
    18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?
    19 Wherefore let them that suffer according to the will of Elohim commit the keeping of their souls to him in well doing, as unto a faithful Creator.
    And from Paul:
    2 Timothy 3:12 Yea, and all that will live godly in Messiah Yahushua shall suffer persecution.
    Fasting from the desires of our flesh causes the flesh to suffer, this is the affliction that we must be willing to go though for the Atonement, it's what Yahushua did. And DeAnna, I know that your heart is a willing participant in this Atonement.

    Again, I just have to tell you how good it is to see you here.

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Hi girlfriend, My heart is missing you. I called a couple weeks ago but you were at the condo with Ryan. Will try again soon.

    The word for afflict: waw=and, therefore:
    Ayin, nun, yod=humble, needy, to impoverish, oppression, poverty
    Taw, mem=was ended, was finished, was completed, perfection, integrity, innocence

    It sounds like it is saying: and oppression or poverty was ended.


    You know me about sticking to what is written. So I find little benefit from the many times a word is mistranslated.

    Big Hugs and kisses to you, Marietta



    [Edited by Moses on 01-26-2001 at 07:49 PM]

    Leave a comment:


  • replied
    Hi DeAnna
    That was an interesting post.
    I would enjoy studying this topic with you

    Leave a comment:


  • DeAnna
    started a topic "Fast" / "Afflict" : meaning

    "Fast" / "Afflict" : meaning

    Shalom Everyone,

    Hate to throw you guys a "curve" here.... but... (smile) uh... uh...
    I found something I thought was quite interesting.
    On both the words "fast" and "afflict ".

    In Lev. 16;31, Lev.23:7, Lev.23:32, Num.29:7
    Actual word in scripture for "afflict"; (waw), ayin, nun, yod, tau, mem
    They translate; ayin, nun, heh (anah) # 6031
    H6031 hn'[' `anah {aw-naw'} ¤ a primitive root
    >> [Possibly rather ident. with 06030 through the idea of looking down or browbeating]; <<
    1) (Qal) to be occupied, be busied with 2) to afflict, oppress, humble, be afflicted, be bowed down 2a) (Qal) 2a1) to be put down, become low 2a2) to be depressed, be downcast, mishandle, be humiliated, weaken oneself

    However same exact word (with the exception of the 'waw" in front on all but one;
    They translate Strongs # 6030.
    Note what it says in # 6031 > "rather identical with 6030..."
    Notice they both say; "primitive root".

    In 1Kings 12; 7 Identical word w/ "vav" at beginning; they translate 6030.
    Psalms 99:8 same word w/out the vav at beginning which means; and/therefore
    They translate; answer (ay,n,h; 6030)
    Isaiah 65:12 same word as above; They translate;
    answer (6030)
    Jer. 7:13 same word; they translate; answer (6030)

    H6030 `anah {aw-naw'} ¤ a primitive root;
    1) to answer, respond, testify, speak, shout,
    to testify, respond as a witness, to make answer,
    to be answered, receive answer, to sing,
    utter tunefully, to dwell

    H6032 hn'[; `anah (Aramaic) {an-aw'} ¤ corresponding to 06030
    1) to answer, respond, make reply

    Now for rest of word: yod,tau,mem
    y,t,m;
    H3490 yathowm {yaw-thome'} ¤ from an unused root meaning to be lonely; ¤ 1) an orphan, fatherless

    H3495 hm't.yI Yithmah {yith-maw'} ¤ from the same as 03490;; n pr m ¤ Ithmah 1 ¤ Ithmah = "orphan"
    1) a Moabite, one of David's mighty warriors

    So... the point?
    Well... the very same word they translate as "afflict" is FROM the exact word to answer, respond, testify, speak, shout, respond to, respond as a witness etc.
    and the rest of the word means "fatherless or orphan".
    Does it not make "sense" that we are to do this for the fatherless or those who have not Yah?

    Further witnesses >>

    Isaiah 53:4 Behold, ye fast for strife and debate, and to smite with the fist of wickedness: ye shall not fast as ye do this day,
    >> to make your voice to be heard on high. <<

    (me: that last sentence... does this not sound like someone "shouting"?)

    5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? is it to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes under him? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to Yah?
    6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?
    7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? When thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?
    8 Then shall thy light break forth as the morning, and thine health shall spring forth speedily: and thy righteousness shall go before thee; the glory of YAH shall be thy reward.

    Now read Zech 7:
    2 When they had sent unto the house of Yah Sherezer and Regemmelech, and their men, to pray before Yah,
    3 And to speak unto the priests which were in the house of YAH, El of hosts, and to the prophets, saying, Should I weep in the fifth month, separating myself, as I have done these so many years?
    4 Then came the word of YAH, EL of hosts unto me, saying,
    5 Speak unto all the people of the land, and to the priests, saying, When ye fasted and mourned in the fifth and seventh month, even those seventy years, did ye at all fast unto me, even to me?
    6 And when ye did eat, and when ye did drink, did not ye eat for yourselves, and drink for yourselves?
    7 Should ye not hear the words which Yah hath cried by the former prophets, when Jerusalem was inhabited and in prosperity, and the cities thereof round about her, when men inhabited the south and the plain?
    8 And the word of Yah came unto Zechariah, saying,
    9 Thus speaketh Yah of hosts, saying, Execute true judgment, and shew mercy and compassions every man to his brother:
    10 And oppress not the widow, nor the fatherless, the stranger, nor the poor; and let none of you imagine evil against his brother in your heart.

    I also noticed that whenever the "actual" word "fast" (tz,w,m) is actually used in scripture... it is ALWAYS some one "else" > "proclaiming a fast".
    Such as Ruth, or Jereboam etc.

    Other words that they "translate" as > fast < are;

    Tzadee, mem, tau; #6789 meaning to cut off, annihilate, exterminate, etc.

    The main one is; tz,mem,nun,waw. Or the "nun" could be a "gamel", but since I can't find it anywhere can't be positive. But I think it's a "nun".

    Another "main" one is "tz,mem" which also does not exist. But they translate all of these and many more variations as "tz,w,m" = fast, abstain from food.

    Would love for some one else to check this out with me.
    Thanks,
    Love,
    D'





    [Edited by DeAnna on 01-24-2001 at 07:37 PM]
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