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"The Two Witnesses" Revisted

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  • "The Two Witnesses" Revisted

    Shalom Everyone,

    May Yah bless us all! (smile)

    I just had to share this post a man wrote at another forum.
    I did ask his permission to post it. And invited him to the forum.
    He goes by the handle; "Aryeh 74".

    I just thought it was the best "scriptural" evidence of this topic I had ever seen. I truly believe He is lead by Yah... well...

    here goes. >

    Understanding the Two Witnesses

    House of Israel, House of Yehuda

    Jeremiah 11:16 YHWH called thy name, A green olive tree, fair, and of goodly fruit: with the noise of a great tumult he hath kindled fire upon it, and the branches of it are broken.(See Romans 11)

    17 For YHWH of hosts, that planted thee, hath pronounced evil against thee, for the evil of the house of Israel and of the house of Judah, which they have done against themselves to provoke me to anger in offering incense unto Baal(Lord).

    The Olive Tree's In the Book of Romans, The Wild Olive Tree, and the Natural Olive Tree

    Romans 11:1 I say then, Hath Elohim cast away his people? Elohim forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.

    2 ELohim hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the Scripture saith of Elijah? how he maketh intercession to Elohim against Israel, saying,
    3 YHWH they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.

    4 But what saith the answer of Yahaweh Elohim unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.

    5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.

    6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.

    7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded.(for a time)

    8 (According as it is written,Elohim hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day.

    9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompense unto them:
    10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back always.

    11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? Elohim forbid:, but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.

    12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fullness?(See Zechariah 8:23,Revelation 14:1-5)

    13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as, I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:

    14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.

    Romans 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?(rebirth of Israel as a righteous nation)

    16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.(See Revelation 14 for Identification of the Firstfruits)

    17 And if some of the branches be broken off(Northern Kingdom,Lost Tribes), and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert grafted in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
    Romans 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.

    19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that might be grafted in.

    20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off(Exile), and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:

    21 For if Elohim spared not the natural, branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.

    22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of Elohim: on, them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.

    23 And they also, if they abide not, still in unbelief, shall be grafted in: for Elohim is able to graft them in, again.

    24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert grafted contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural, branches, be grafted into their own olive tree?(Take not too Olive Trees are mentioned the Wild Olive Tree, and the Natural Olive Tree)

    25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until, the fullness of the Gentiles be come in.(Temporary Blindness)

    26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Zion the Deliverer, and shall turn away unrighteousness from Jacob:

    27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.

    28 As concerning, the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes:, but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers' sakes.

    29 For the gifts and calling of Elohim are without repentance.

    Romans 11:30 For as yet in times past have not believed Elohim, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:

    31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.

    Romans 11:32 For Elohim hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.

    Romans 11:33 the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of Elohim! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!

    Romans 11:34 For who hath known the mind of YHWH? or who hath been his counselor?

    Romans 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?

    Romans 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory forever., Amen.

    King David/Ha Melekh David of the House of Judah/Ha Beit Yehuda as an Olive Tree

    Psalm 52:8 But am like a green olive tree in the house of Elohim: I trust in the mercy of Elohim forever and ever.

    King David is of the House of Judah.And likens himself to an Olive Tree in this Psalm.

    The Two Witnesses Forementioned in Zechariah Ha Navi

    Zecariah 4:1 And the angel/Malak that talked with me came again, and waked me, as a man that is wakened out of his sleep,

    2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:

    3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right, side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.

    4 So I answered and spoke to the angel/malak that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?

    5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

    6 Then he answered and spoke unto me, saying, This is the word of YHWH unto Zerubbabel, saying, Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith YHWH of hosts.

    7 Who art thou, O great mountain? before Zerubbabel thou shalt become a plain: and he shall bring forth the headstone thereof with shoutings, crying, Grace, grace unto it.

    8 Moreover the word of YHWH came unto me, saying,

    9 The hands of Zerubbabel have laid the foundation of this house; his hands shall also finish it; and thou shalt know that the YHWH of hosts hath sent me unto you.

    10 For who hath despised the day of small things? for they shall rejoice, and shall see the plummet, in the hand of Zerubbabel with those seven; they are the eyes of YHWH,which run to and fro through the whole earth.

    11 Then answered I, and said unto him, What are these two olive trees upon the right side of the candlestick and upon the left side thereof?

    12 And I answered again, and said unto him, What be these two olive branches which through the two golden pipes empty the golden oil out of, themselves?

    13 And he answered, me and said, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.

    14 Then said he, These are the two anointed ones, that stand by YHWH of the whole earth.

    I would say or submit that one of the witnesses is of The House of Judah/Ha Beit Yehuda and one is of The House of Israel/Ha Beit Y'israel. If its former Prophets ressurected i would say it would be Enoch/Hannoch and EliYahu Ha Navi, but im not sure it has to be the former prophets, The Gospels say EliYahu Ha Navi already came back as John/Yochanon The Immerser.

    The reasoning for the Two Witnesses being former Prophets comes from the book of Hebrews/Ivrim and is a major christian Ideology based on the Passage in The Book of Hebrews.

    Hebrews 9:27 And as, it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:

    Now many have said due to this scripture that it could or should be Enoch/Hannoch and Eliyahu, Because both were taken, but Enoch is mentioned as living 365 years so being taken could be a hebrew Idiom meaning he went to be with YHWH in spirit, in the account of EliYahu he actually was for the record taken away alive, but in the Gospel Accounts Yeshua was recorded as saying that EliYahu Ha Navi returned as John/Yochanon the Immerser.

    So the two most probable canidates have are Enoch and EliYahu, Moses has already lived once, Remember Revelation 11 says the Two witnesses come and die, and if scripture cannot be broken then that would have Moses/Moshe as having lived Twice.

    The Two Witnesses In The Book of Revelation

    (Then Aryeh posted the 11th. chapter of Rev. But I couldn't post it all because it was "too many characters".)

    I have a few things to add, but I will later, Yah willing.
    What do u guys think?

    "At that day
    shall a man look to his Maker,
    and his eyes shall have respect
    to the Holy One of Israel."
    Isaiah 17:7

  • #2

    Here is a post from US in Nov 2001

    The Broken BRANCHes of ISRAEL

    JER 11:16 YHWH called you a thriving olive tree
    with fruit beautiful in form.
    But with the roar of a mighty storm
    HE will set it on fire,
    and its branches will be broken.

    JER 11:17 Almighty YHWH, who planted you, has decreed disaster for you, because the house of ISRAEL and the house of YEHUDAH have done evil and provoked me to anger by burning incense to Baal.

    RO 11:11 Again I ask: Did they stumble so as to fall beyond recovery? Not at all! Rather, because of their transgression, salvation has come to the unbelievers to make ISRAEL envious. 12 But if their transgression means riches for the world, and their loss means riches for the unbelievers, how much greater riches will their fullness bring!

    RO 11:13 I am talking to you unbelievers. Inasmuch as I am the apostle to the unbelievers, I make much of my ministry 14 in the hope that I may somehow arouse my own people to envy and save some of them. 15 For if their rejection is the reconciliation of the world, what will their acceptance be but life from the dead? 16 If the part of the dough offered as FIRSTFRUITs is HOLY, then the whole batch is HOLY; if the ROOT is HOLY, so are the BRANCHes.

    RO 11:17 If some of the BRANCHes have been broken off, (Jeremiah 11:16) and you, though a wild olive shoot, have been grafted in among the others and now share in the nourishing sap from the olive ROOT, 18 do not boast over those BRANCHes. If you do, consider this: You do not support the ROOT, but the ROOT supports you. 19 You will say then, "BRANCHes were broken off so that I could be grafted in." 20 Granted. But they were broken off because of unbelief, and you stand by FAITH. Do not be arrogant, but be afraid. 21 For if YHWH did not spare the original BRANCHes (in Jeremiah 11:16), he will not spare you either.

    RO 11:22 Consider therefore the kindness and sternness of YHWH: sternness to those who fell, but kindness to you, provided that you continue in HIS kindness. Otherwise, you also will be cut off. 23 And if they do not persist in unbelief, they will be grafted in, for YHWH is able to graft them in again. 24 After all, if you were cut out of an olive tree that is wild by nature, and contrary to nature were grafted into a cultivated olive tree, how much more readily will these, the other BRANCHes, be grafted into their own olive tree!

    RO 11:25 I do not want you to be ignorant of this mystery, brothers, so that you may not be conceited: ISRAEL has experienced a hardening in part until the full number of the unbelievers has come in 26 so ALL of ISRAEL will be saved, as it is written:

    "The deliverer will come from Zion;
    HE will take godlessness away from Jacob.

    RO 11:27 And this is MY COVENANT with them
    when I take away their sin."

    ZEC 4:11 Then I asked the angel, "What are these two olive trees on the right and the left of the lampstand?"

    ZEC 4:12 Again I asked him, "What are these two olive branches beside the two gold pipes that pour out golden oil?"

    ZEC 4:13 He replied, "Do you not know what these are?"
    "No, my lord," I said.

    ZEC 4:14 So he said, "These are the two who are anointed ton serve the MASTER of all the earth."

    REV11: 3 And I will give power to my two witnesses, and they will prophesy for 1,260 days, clothed in sackcloth." 4 These are the two olive trees and the two lampstands that stand before the MASTER of the earth. 5 If anyone tries to harm them, fire comes from their mouths and devours their enemies. This is how anyone who wants to harm them must die. 6 These men have power to shut up the sky so that it will not rain during the time they are prophesying; and they have power to turn the waters into blood and to strike the earth with every kind of plague as often as they want.

    REV 11:7 Now when they have finished their testimony, the beast that comes up from the Abyss will attack them, and overpower and kill them. 8 Their bodies will lie in the street of the great city, which is figuratively called Sodom and Egypt, where also their MASTER was crucified. 9 For three and a half days men from every people, tribe, language and nation will gaze on their bodies and refuse them burial. 10 The inhabitants of the earth will gloat over them and will celebrate by sending each other gifts, because these two prophets had tormented those who live on the earth.

    REV 11:11 But after the three and a half days a breath of life from YHWH entered them, and they stood on their feet, and terror struck those who saw them. 12 Then they heard YHWH’s voice from heaven saying to them, "COME UP HERE!" And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

    The BRANCHes were broken off. (Jeremiah 11:16)
    The BRANCHes will come together. (Romans 11)
    The BRANCHes are prophesised to become ONE. (Zechariah 4) (Revelation 11)

    The TWO BRANCHES in JERIMIAH are TREES in Revelation. They are not two people, but TWO Groups of PEOPLE.


    All of YHWH’s PEOPLE
    (Christian, Jew, Mormon, Muslim, American, European, Asian, etc… All who submit to YHWH’s SACRIFICE, in YESHUA MESSIAH, and to YHWH’s HOLY SPIRIT and WORD are YHWH’s PEOPLE)
    must be grafted into ISRAEL, HIS PEOPLE,

    YHWH's PLAN:
    Until all unbelievers come in
    Romans 11:26 “so that ALL of ISRAEL will be SAVED”!!!

    WE are ONE!!!


    The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

    I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
    That is why I SAVED YOU.
    For ME.