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  • Pardon me? not

    Take my name which ever way you please
    I stand in breathing the way of CONFUSIONISM alias known as CONFUSIANITY.

    Who is in "truth"? Who was "in order" but now confused? This is for the Goddess that used to lie. To the "gift", 23 in age i assume? For the "desacred utencil burried under greek mud. For the 'not so good a spy'. For you are all "one" in Babylonia.
    The place where I reside.

    Don't get me twisted- dread found in locks.
    Just wanted to let you all know that you all are twisted in your chains and locks.

    I am ever vexing at these Ideas of men called "holy" as they unfold
    I will make you question not only what you believe but the writtings. The ever vexing of old.

    Last edited by EvrVexingOfOld; 03-04-2003, 05:26 AM.
    Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.

  • #2
    It's Alive!!!

    ZECH 5:1 Then I turned, and lifted up mine eyes, and looked, and behold a flying roll.

    ZECH 5:2 And he said unto me, What seest thou? And I answered, I see a flying roll; the length thereof is twenty cubits, and the breadth thereof ten cubits.

    ZECH 5:3 Then said he unto me, This is the curse that goeth forth over the face of the whole earth: for every one that stealeth shall be cut off as on this side according to it; and every one that sweareth shall be cut off as on that side according to it.

    ZECH 5:4 I will bring it forth, saith the LORD of hosts, and it shall enter into the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by MY NAME: and it shall remain in the midst of his house, and shall consume it with the timber thereof and the stones thereof.

    YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) is a "curse" to this world. (the house of the thief, and into the house of him that sweareth falsely by MY NAME)

    ZECH 5:5 Then the angel that talked with me went forth, and said unto me, Lift up now thine eyes, and see what is this that goeth forth.

    ZECH 5:6 And I said, What is it? And he said, This is an ephah that goeth forth. He said moreover, This is their resemblance through all the earth.

    ZECH 5:7 And, behold, there was lifted up a talent of lead: and this is a woman that sitteth in the midst of the ephah.

    ZECH 5:8 And he said, This is wickedness. And he cast it into the midst of the ephah; and he cast the weight of lead upon the mouth thereof.

    ZECH 5:9 Then lifted I up mine eyes, and looked, and, behold, there came out two women, and the wind was in their wings; for they had wings like the wings of a stork: and they lifted up the ephah between the earth and the heaven.

    ZECH 5:10 Then said I to the angel that talked with me, Whither do these bear the ephah?

    ZECH 5:11 And he said unto me, To build it an house in the land of Shinar: and it shall be established, and set there upon her own base.


    WE have seen your "two winged beings" (this world calls them "angels").

    I want to shout this out as Dr. Frankenstein did in the old movie, "Bride of Frankenstein":

    "IT'S ALIVE!!!!!!!"


    The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

    I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
    That is why I SAVED YOU.
    For ME.



    • #3
      I HAVE 2, you have a few

      Immediately after i-e-s-o-u-s- had been crucified his followers had fled. Many had been killed in in the land of Jerusalem -
      and more had been crucified by Pilate, they did not want to stay around to find out whether there would be more arrests.

      Peter, the gospels admit, cut off a man's ear, the merest indication Jesus' gang used force resisting arrest. He was too scared to admit that he was a disciple and denied it three times.

      Yet in Acts, Peter and the Apostles are active again in Jerusalem shortly afterwards. Matthew however says they fled to Galilee, out of direct Roman rule, a safer and more sensible option. John makes it clear they were in hiding, meeting only in secrecy, because doors were shut when they assembled. The apocryphal Gospel of Peter says explicitly that the Apostles were sought by the authorities as malefactors who wanted to set fire to the Temple

      How then were they able to continue to proclaim their Messiah, only half-heartedly hindered by the civic authorities, as Acts maintains, so soon after an uprising?

      you may answer," the "spirit" of I-e-s-o-u-s- is what gave them 'the heart' "

      well consider this,
      The answer lies in events in the Roman administration. Pilate was withdrawn to Rome in 36 AD and the executive of the Empire changed with the death of Tiberius in 37 AD. After an interregnum the new administrators would have taken office with new concerns. The remnants of i-e-s-o-u-s' band then felt able to return from Galilee and tentatively to resume activity. The activity now was not revolution but persuading people that the Messiah was i-e-s-o-u-s and that he was soon to return on a cloud with a heavenly host as in Daniel. The disciples still expected a miracle and Israel to be liberated as Luke-Acts proves. And Peter continued to preach that G-d had promised to King David to put one of his descendants on the throne of Israel.

      Considering the apparent failure of their Messiah they were surprised to find themselves enjoying much success in winning Jewish proselytes (Acts 6:1; 6:7). Few, perhaps none, of these new proselytes would have been gentiles though many may have been Hellenized Jews. The orthodox Jews feared that the whole population would be converted. A century later Tacitus writes that the death of I-e-s-o-u-s was a blow "which, for a time, checked the growth of a dangerous superstition; but it broke out again, and spread with increasing vigor, not only in Judaea. . .but even in the city of Rome". The Recognitions of Clementine, a third century work confirms this success.

      What was the reason for this astonishing success?

      It still seems surprising that a failed Messiah should posthumously become so successful. i-e-s-o-u-s had spread the word that the day of judgement was at hand, indeed twice in Matthew (Mt 16:28 and Mt 24:34) i-e-s-o-u-s promised to his disciples the kingdom within a generation. Ordinary Jews were superstitious and demoralized. With each hope dashed they sought another to cling to. Perhaps the message of Jesus' life remained valid though the messenger was dead - the kingdom was at hand, still! Most Jews believed in life after death, only the Sadducees did not, and talk of the recently deceased Nasi returning on a cloud with a heavenly host to realize G-d's will in fulfillment of the prophecy of Daniel renewed their faith in the Messiah just when it had apparently been frustrated.

      Thus the disciples' initial disappointment at I-e-s-o-u-s' failure turned into a new hope and the Apostles benefited from a sort of apocalyptic hysteria. They convinced themselves that the late earthly Jesus was not a warrior Messiah but represented Israel as the suffering servant of Isaiah. This tortured and despised man was sentenced to a dishonorable death, remained silent in his defence and was unhesitatingly dispatched but was rewarded with victory after death. Accounts of I-e-s-o-u-s' trials were written with this model in mind.

      So Peter, John, the son of Zebedee, and James, the brother of I-e-s-o-u-s, founded the Jerusalem Church.

      The epistles of Paul confirm that James was a pillar of the church along with Peter and John. Peter and John were already Apostles but James was not (unless it could be shown he was James the son of Alphaeus).

      Answer for yourself: Why should he have been a founder of the Church?

      He was not one of the Twelve but he was I-e-s-o-u-s' successor as head of the Church. The reason must have been that he was his brother and next in line. Perhaps this is the royal line of David, especially since on James' death the son of another brother of I-e-s-o-u-s, Jude, became leader. It was the norm for dynasties to head sects in Judaea at that time. The leaders of the Maccabaean revolt constituted a dynasty. The High Priesthood was a dynasty. The Zealots were led by the dynasty of Judas of Galilee. The clear succession of leadership which obviously existed is possibly evidence that the sect was not newly founded after I-e-s-o-u-s' death.

      Now I-e-s-o-u-s' family are depicted in the gospels as doubting him so it is again mysterious that a brother should assume leadership on I-e-s-o-u-s' death. Acts fails to mention that James is I-e-s-o-u-s' brother, though Paul in a letter written much earlier openly admits it. Nor does Acts say anything about the martyrdom of James. Indeed Acts wrongly says Peter succeeded I-e-s-o-u-s as the leader of the Jerusalem Church when all other evidence shows it was James. The lie was inserted later by the Church of Rome, traditionally founded by Peter, to give it greater authority.

      I'll post more later.
      THE ever vexing of old
      Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.


      • #4

        The whole thing was a scam!

        Theosophy is a rejection of reason and is the basis of many New Age beliefs today. Here we debunk this absurdity.
        Yirm. 10:10

        "But YHWH is truly Elohim. He is the living Elohim and the everlasting Sovereign........."


        • #5
          TRUTH or not?

          How can you all use YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) to prove certain points of yours, when you don't believe it is TRUTH?

          If it is all lies, then use other things to prove your truths.


          You are "swearing to HIS NAME" tryimg to prove that HE is not TRUTH.

          This will work against you.

          It just doesn't make sense.

          Your god always uses YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW against me. Your god tries to show how I AM not following HIS WORD/LAW. Your god is very good at using YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW.

          JN 8:21 Then said YH'SHWH again unto them, I go MY WAY, and ye shall seek ME, and shall die in your sins: whither I go, ye cannot come.

          JN 8:22 Then said the Jews, Will he kill himself? because HE saith, Whither I go, ye cannot come.

          JN 8:23 And HE said unto them, Ye are from beneath; I AM from above: ye are of this world; I AM not of this world.

          JN 8:24 I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE, ye shall die in your sins.

          JN 8:25 Then said they unto HIM, Who art THOU? And YH'SHWH saith unto them, Even the same that I said unto you from the beginning.

          JN 8:26 I have many things to say and to judge of you: but HE that sent ME is TRUE; and I speak to the world those things which I have heard of HIM.

          JN 8:27 They understood not that HE spake to them of ABBA.

          JN 8:28 Then said YH'SHWH unto them, When ye have lifted up the SON of MAN, then shall ye know that I AM HE, and that I do nothing of MYSELF; but as ABBA hath taught ME, I speak these things.

          JN 8:29 And HE that sent ME is with ME: ABBA hath not left ME alone; for I do always those things that please HIM.

          JN 8:30 As HE spake these words, many believed on HIM.

          JN 8:31 Then said YH'SHWH to those Jews which believed on HIM, If ye continue in MY WORD, then are ye MY DISCIPLES indeed;

          JN 8:32 And ye shall know TRUTH, and TRUTH shall make you free.

          JN 8:33 They answered HIM, We be ABRAHAM's seed, and were never in bondage to any man: how sayest THOU, Ye shall be made free?

          JN 8:34 YH'SHWH answered them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whosoever committeth sin is the servant of sin.

          JN 8:35 And the servant abideth not in the house for ever: but the SON abideth ever.

          JN 8:36 If the SON therefore shall make you free, ye shall be free indeed.

          JN 8:37 I know that ye are ABRAHAM's seed; but ye seek to kill ME, because MY WORD hath no place in you.

          JN 8:38 I speak that which I have seen with ABBA: and ye do that which ye have seen with your father.

          JN 8:39 They answered and said unto him, ABRAHAM is our father. YH'SHWH saith unto them, If ye were ABRAHAM's children, ye would do the WORKs of ABRAHAM.

          JN 8:40 But now ye seek to kill ME, a man that hath told you TRUTH, which I have heard of GOD: this did not ABRAHAM.

          JN 8:41 Ye do the deeds of your father. Then said they to him, We be not born of fornication; we have ONE ABBA, GOD.

          JN 8:42 YH'SHWH said unto them, If GOD were your ABBA, ye would love ME: for I proceeded forth and came from GOD; neither came I of MYSELF, but HE sent ME.

          JN 8:43 Why do ye not understand MY SPEECH? even because ye cannot hear MY WORD.

          JN 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in TRUTH, because there is no TRUTH in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.

          JN 8:45 And because I tell you TRUTH, ye believe ME not.

          JN 8:46 Which of you convinceth ME of sin? And if I say TRUTH, why do ye not believe ME?

          JN 8:47 HE that is of GOD heareth GOD's WORDS: ye therefore hear them not, because ye are not of GOD.


          The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

          I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
          I CREATED YOU for ME.
          That is why I SAVED YOU.
          For ME.

          YOUR HUSBAND,


          • #6
            I'll continue with my dialogue

            Hi Israel,

            It seem to Ever vexing ff old that you are disappointed at him.
            You say that choose and pick, he does, out of a book.
            You fail to understand the CONFUSION that over took.

            If Israel walketh with the Supreme then please clarify-
            these things to the evervexing of Old who wants not lies.
            Confusion, I am in to that we can at least agree
            So help me only if you're treuly walking on the
            correct path

            Until then, rude is what I am
            Trusting no one- I cant find anythig to believe in
            Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.


            • #7
              Renewed Acquaintance!

              Hi EvrVexingOfOld,

              Welcome to Lo Ammi. I do not find you rude, but I will say that you do know how to pick a fight, and you do so in a humorous way. I really got a kick out of your introductory comments concerning many of us. You made me laugh, and I like to laugh. 'not so good a spy', you say! Well, please show me another way! You are brave, and I am looking forward to your contribution. I take you at your word, and eventhough you may still be young, this is what I have said about age:
              You know some of us are older,
              Only known to the Ancient of Days!
              Under this circumstance, it is a pleasure to again renew our acquaintance.

              Observer of Old, use your opportunity with wisdom, and again welcome to Lo Ammi.

              Sincerely, Spying
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


              • #8
                continuing on

                Indeed a strange person has entered our midst

                Welcome to Lo-ammi.
                And I agree to christianity being a source of confusion- so are all the worlds religions. and everyone is stuck in Bavylonia.Is this what you mean to say as "confusionism/confusianity", a meld of all the "isms" and "nities"? And why is it that you say that you "breathe" the way of this confusion?

                You post up hard things to get around. Hopefully we can give answers to clarify these claims that you bring.

                Last edited by beseder; 03-05-2003, 07:02 PM.
                ONE G-D, ONE SPIRIT, ONE MESSIAH.
                ONE TORAH [MEMRA(audible) and KHOCHMA(written)], ONE MASORAH.

                OBEY YE THE SOFRIM (HAKHAMIM) and the PERUSHIM for they are the only ones given right to and power to interpret scripture. DO AS THEY TELL YOU but do not do as the Colored-Rabbis and colored pharisees tell you, for they are Painted!(Matt 23:1-3)


                • #9

                  This is what I have learned.

                  I will never prove my belief to you and you will never prove your belief to me. We can try, but we will end up going in circles debating the same points over and over.

                  Let us try something.

                  I will show you who and what I believe in and how I have adjusted my life to it.

                  You will show me who and what you believe in and how you have adjusted your life to it.

                  Don't say you don't believe in anything.

                  All of us (humans) adjusts our lives to our gods.

                  This is a god (master).

                  A god is something you adjust your whole life to. Your time and money are easily invested into it.

                  A god is something you think about all the time.

                  A god is something you get excited talking about.

                  A god is something that takes your thoughts (and time) away from your loved ones. (family)

                  A god is something that you can't wait to get to. It seems everything is in the way or taking time away from your god.

                  This is a god.

                  This is how my life is adjusted to my GOD, YH'SHWH. My time and money are spent on HIM and HIS WAYS/WORKS. I think about HIM so much, all the time. I love talking about HIM.

                  The order in my house is YH'SHWH, my wife, my children, HIS PEOPLE, and then me.

                  By YH'SHWH being first, HIS SPIRIT LIVES HIS WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) through me. SPIRIT makes me a good husband, a good daddy, a helper, and a SON of GOD, YH'SHWH.


                  The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

                  I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
                  I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
                  I CREATED YOU for ME.
                  That is why I SAVED YOU.
                  For ME.

                  YOUR HUSBAND,


                  • #10
                    Hi Israel

                    If you love me, help me
                    speak out all you can, I am willing to hear

                    but you must be willing to lend an ear to the disposition

                    there is A God, an EL,I believe- and only one- what is that way,However? do I believe you have it? dont know. Prove it you must. To save ones life especially.
                    I am seeking to save the life that i know and live- in that way,to save others from death, i can.

                    Israel, to the others,what i have said, you must read- questions to your mind, it may bring, about the TRUE reliability of the book you and so many others put your faith in(despite your differences in what which books are considered).

                    it seems to the ever vexing of Old that everyone's faith on this forum, including my own is FILLED to the brim with lies.
                    Hello Spy
                    I have been observing this place for a while- a long time ago- reading and growing full of knowledge in the background of all- share warmth and grow cold, I have felt the discussions - moving right and left, up and downwatching it I have . No one here has truth.
                    Do you have it Spy?
                    that good of a spy to me,You dont seem - blind you must be for your past sins, yes? And if one is blind , how can one see to spy?
                    Invite you I do, to read my other posts aswell.

                    If you have truth, and you have been RESTORED your sight, respond to all that i have said, and make it as the foolishness it is supposed to be, YES?
                    if not, we ALL REMAIN in foolishness, and dumbfounded.

                    Dear sacred utencil buried under the mud of rome- you will get your's soon.

                    ZIL B'Shlama
                    Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.


                    • #11
                      Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.

                      Believe it or not I can relate!

                      And I qoute:

                      "Dear sacred utencil buried under the mud of rome- you will get your's soon.


                      I say bring it on, Lets see what you got!

                      Rome ain't my favorite place either.

                      Oh by the way don't let it make you as crazy as you make it sound.
                      Yirm. 10:10

                      "But YHWH is truly Elohim. He is the living Elohim and the everlasting Sovereign........."


                      • #12
                        Proof is in YH'SHWH'S WORD/LAW.


                        I cannot prove YH'SHWH'S WORD/LAW and HIS PROPHETS to you.

                        My submission to HIS SPIRIT, WHO LIVES HIS WORD/LAW through ME, is proof to ME.

                        The changes that have occurred because of HIS SPIRIT LIVING HIS WORD/LAW, through ME, is proof to ME.

                        The changes in others around ME because of HIS SPIRIT LIVING HIS WORD/LAW, through ME, is proof to ME.

                        I AM YH'SHWH'S and HIS SPIRIT, LIVING HIS WORD/LAW through ME, makes ME HIS SON, makes ME a good husband, makes ME a good daddy, and makes ME a SERVANT to HIS PEOPLE, ISRAEL.

                        The proof of HIS WORD/LAW and HIS PROPHETS, to you, will need to come from your looking for/seeking HIM.

                        YOU will find YH'SHWH is with YOU and has been with YOU the whole time.

                        This will be the proof to YOU.

                        YH'SHWH LOVES US.


                        The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

                        I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
                        I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
                        I CREATED YOU for ME.
                        That is why I SAVED YOU.
                        For ME.

                        YOUR HUSBAND,


                        • #13
                          Hi truth

                          Me thinks you're "urffy", yes?

                          The quote was not referring to you at all. However, i dont mind redirecting it toward you for the moment.

                          and the place Bavylon is insane- because everyone is DRUNK under the influence- save for a few- and you and I are not one of those few.
                          Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.


                          • #14
                            The Blind!

                            Hi EvrVexingOfOld,

                            Thank you for the compliment! As it is written
                            Isa 42:19
                            19 Who is blind, but my servant? or deaf, as my messenger that I sent? who is blind as he that is perfect, and blind as YAHWEH'S servant? (KJV)
                            Observer of Old, if the servant of YAHWEH is blind, from whom did you receive your sight?
                            I'VE SEEEEEEN YOUUUUUUU!
                            Sincerely, Spying
                            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                            • #15

                              The New Testament treatment of the family of I-e-s-o-u-s is a further attempt by Christian editors to dissociate their g-d from his origins. After the quarrel reported in the gospels when I-e-s-o-u-s leaves his family in disgust they are scarcely heard of again until the crucifixion. I-e-s-o-u-s apparently rejected his family in the gospels because they had no faith in him. For a church desperately trying to be gentile, that served to prove that even J-e-s-o-u-s' family connections with Jewishness had been severed.

                              The Church led by James, the brother of J-e-s-o-u-s, was a Jewish sect, orthodox in all respects except for their belief that the Messiah had appeared in the person of J-e-s-o-u-s who had died a felon's death, hanging from a tree, but had been resurrected and would soon (within their own lifetime) return with the hosts of Heaven to free the Jews from persecution. They knew J-e-s-o-u-s as a devout Jew, who had not repudiated the Torah, indeed who was zealous for the Law. His Sabbath cures were not against the Law.

                              They believed they were living in the End Time, the days just before the inauguration of the kingdom of G-d on earth when the pure would be selected to rule the world as the passages from the Psalms of Solomon, given in a prior article, makes clear.

                              Emphatically they did not regard J-e-s-o-u-s as divine. Not only would that have been blasphemous but James and his brothers and sisters would have regarded it as absurd. They had lived with J-e-s-o-u-s all their lives and would have been aware more than anyone of his humanity. Since a Jewish Messiah could not be divine, they regarded him as human even though G-d had revived him from the dead! In Acts 2:22 Peter does not describe J-e-s-o-u-s as a g-d but as "a man accredited to you by G-d" - a special man, yes, but a man nonetheless. The evidence even of the gospels is that J-e-s-o-u-s could not have contemplated the blasphemy of a man claiming to be a g-d. This is the position taken by Bet Emet Ministries as well based upon all the evidence accumulated over 16 years of intense study.

                              A feel of the original Palestinian fount of Christianity, the Nazarene Church, is given by the Epistle of James the Just (or Righteous) which was regarded by Christians as far removed as Eusebius and Luther as unsuitable for inclusion in the canon. Its language is much like that ascribed to J-e-s-o-u-s in the synoptic gospels and its sentiments very much like those of the Qumran Community, for example in emphasizing the spiritual benefits of poverty. It is a document of the style of a Qumran exhortation with no mention of a dead and resurrected redeemer and indeed scarcely a mention of J-e-s-o-u-s at all. This also supports the idea that the Nazarenes were a sect which existed before the crucifixion of J-e-s-o-u-s, and, indeed, that it was not originally a religion "of J-e-s-o-u-s" but one of righteousness and correct living which J-e-s-o-u-s had served as an unusual leader.
                              Observer of Old. Vexing all. Trusting none. seeking in all.