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**Yahnathan** · 01-22-2001, 10:12 AM

Sandy I am sure all of us agree there are mote than one defination to the word day. Of course there is a 24 hour period of time called a day and there is a period of daylight called a day. Please do not confuse the two. If scriptural 24 hour days do not begin at sunset then why is atonement kept from the evening of the 9th sunet(begining of the 15th) to the 10th at sunset(end of the 10th and th begining of the 11th) ?

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

How do you explain this if scriptural 24 hour days begin at sunrise ? Also you never responded to my request to prove your theory that ereb can either mean dusk or sunset ? Will you show us an example that ereb can be translated morning and not evening ? I have given the example of the dove noah realeased in the daylight portion of the day and it returned to him ereb which in this case is there no dought this is the period near sunset ?

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Surly this bird did not fly around during the dark portion of the day and return to noah in the morning ? How do you explain this and can you offer any support in the scriptures that ereb can be translated morning ?

Let each one be convinced in his own mind.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Beware of wolves teaching false doctrine.

With Love in the Service of Yahushua,

**Sandy** · 01-22-2001, 12:30 PM

Originally posted by Yahnathan
Sandy I am sure all of us agree there are mote than one defination to the word day. Of course there is a 24 hour period of time called a day and there is a period of daylight called a day. Please do not confuse the two.

Yes I agree that we often refer to the full 24 hour period as a day. But if you have a 24 hour day that begins at evening (from evening to evening), then what you have is a 24 hour period that starts with the fading light of the day. To say the fading light begins the day is in opposition to what some of you are saying happened in Genesis 1:1-2. So, which is it? Do you believe the day begins with the dark because it already existed before the light was called into being or do you believe it begins at evening, which is the fading light of the day?

This is how I see it.
Every 24 hour period has: a day (light) and a night (dark), a morning (twilight) and an evening (twilight). I am NOT saying the twilight of the morning is the same thing as evening. The pale light that exists before sunrise and after sunset is called twilight. Genesis 1 He said let there be Light...and Elohym separated the light from the dark and he called the Light "Day" and he called the Dark "Night" and there was evening and morning...

See, it says a 24 hour period has a day (light), a night (dark), an evening (twilight) and a morning (twilight).

If scriptural 24 hour days do not begin at sunset then why is atonement kept from the evening of the 9th sunet(begining of the 15th) to the 10th at sunset(end of the 10th and th begining of the 11th)?

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

How do you explain this if scriptural 24 hour days begin at sunrise ?

Basically because that is when YHUH said to keep it. He is speaking specifically here concerning the Day of Atonement, not concerning a day in general. You cannot take this and apply it to every day.

Yahnathan, you never answered my question as to how you explain the timing of this Scripture.

Leviticus 7:15
As to the flesh of the sacrifice of the thanksgiving peace offerings, it shall be eaten in the day of its offering. He shall not leave of it until morning.

Also you never responded to my request to prove your theory that ereb can either mean dusk or sunset ? Will you show us an example that ereb can be translated morning and not evening ?

I have given the example of the dove noah realeased in the daylight portion of the day and it returned to him ereb which in this case is there no dought this is the period near sunset ?

Gen 8:11 And the dove came in to him in the evening; and, lo, in her mouth was an olive leaf pluckt off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.

Surly this bird did not fly around during the dark portion of the day and return to noah in the morning ? How do you explain this and can you offer any support in the scriptures that ereb can be translated morning ?

Yahnathan, I did answer your question when you asked it on the "When does a day begin?" thread. Here it is again.

I believe evening is the twilight time from sunset till dark.

Let each one be convinced in his own mind.

Acts 20:29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.

Beware of wolves teaching false doctrine.

Touche'

With Love in the Service of Yahushua,

**Yahnathan** · 01-23-2001, 12:22 PM

Sandy again you are resultimg to faulty circular reasoning to establish your false view. There is no dought in any scholars mind that there are at least two diff definations of the word day. Again these would be the complete period of 24 hours or the daylight portain of a 24 hour period. Evening too has more than one defination as we see in the true defination of the hebrew Beyn Ha Arbayim. Bein Ha Arbayim litteraly means between the evenings. This tells us there are two evenings spoken of in scripture. The First evening begins during the daylight portion of the day as the sun begins to decend toward the west at about 3 pm. The second evening begins at sunset. This tells us the proper defination of Beyn Ha arbayim is between 3pm and sunset.

I will first address your instistance that the Scripture in Lev 7:15 teaches that sunrise begins a new 24 hour day. It does no such thing.

Lev 7:15 And the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving shall be eaten the same day(day light portion) that it is offered; he shall not leave any of it until the morning(or break of a new light portion).

A close examination of scripture will prove that all sacrifices took place during the daylight portion of the day. Some sacrifices had to be eaten in that very same daylight portion(not a 24 hour period) . These sacrifices that were to be eaten in the same daylight portion were sacrified with the morning sacrifice in order that it may be eaten in that same daylight portion. However there were other sacrifices that could be held over and eaten also on the next daylight portion.These sacrifices were sacrificed with the evening sacrifices which took place between 3pm and sunset. In the verse in question, Lev 7:15, This particualr sacrifice was one that had to be eaten that same daylight portion and could not be held over until the next daylight portion. Your instistance that this proves that a 24 hours day begins at sunset is inacurate and is refuted by many instances. Since you have not addressed these I will bring them to light for our readers.

Take special notice that not only(as you stated) is atonement kept from night to night but also The Feast of Unleavened bread.

Ex 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Notice the hebrew word for even here is ereb strongs # 6153 means dusk:+day, even( evening tide), night. Remember the two diff evenings spoken of in scripture, here they are. The first evening is the latter part of the day the latter is the period of dusk, twilight that extends into night. I have already chalanged you once to find a scripture that uses the hebrew word ereb in the context of a morning twilight. Since you propose that The evening and morning in Gen was a period of morning twilight and then a day light portion. Of course this is not what scripture says at all. It clearly states that Darkness was on the face of the deep and then Elohim said Let there be light. You may ask when does the new day begin the first evening or the second evening ? In my opinion the next day(new 24 hour period) does not begin until complete darkness. As in the Begining there was complete darkness in a spiritial since and the earth was also spiritialy void.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Take special notice that the Light that is brought forth here is not the Sun. Remember that the Sun was not created until the 4th day. We will discuss this more in detail later.

Again here is the example of Atonement:

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even unto even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Again the same hebrew word is used Ereb. Same as before.

Neh 13:19 And it came to pass, that when the gates of Jerusalem began to be dark before the sabbath, I commanded that the gates should be shut, and charged that they should not be opened till after the sabbath: and some of my servants set I at the gates, that there should no burden be brought in on the sabbath day.

This of course says that in the first evening, BEFORE the Sabbath, as it was drawing near to the second evening(Complete Darkness). The gates were closed so that no burden would be carried after complete darkness(which of course is the begining of the Sababth day).

Ask your self why was a person unclean until evening ?

Lev 11:23-24 And for these ye shall be unclean: whosoever toucheth the carcase of them shall be unclean until the even.
25 And whosoever beareth ought of the carcase of them shall wash his clothes, and be unclean until the even.

Lev 22:6-7 The soul which hath touched any such shall be unclean until even, and shall not eat of the holy things, unless he wash his flesh with water.
7 And when the sun is down, he shall be clean, and shall afterward eat of the holy things; because it is his food.

Deut 23:11 But it shall be, when evening cometh on, he shall wash himself with water: and when the sun is down, he shall come into the camp again.

Take notice how very many sunset beginings take place in scripture.

Judges 19:9;14:12
Joshua 8:28-29;10:26
Deut 21:23
2 Sam 3:35

Esther 4:16 16 Go, gather together all the Jews that are present in Shushan, and fast ye for me, and neither eat nor drink three days, night or day: I also and my maidens will fast likewise; and so will I go in unto the king, which is not according to the law: and if I perish, I perish.

In all of your quoted scriptures you are making the false assumption that these verse are speaking about the begining of a new 24 hour period of time and not the new begining of a daylight portion of a day. why do you not refute the many scriptures that prove a scriptural 24 hour day begins at sunset ? If you can explain them then perhaps your faulty reasoning would be justified.

I will remind you that in the begining Darkness was over the face of the deep. Then Elohim said "Let there be light" take special notice this light was not light from the sun at all. The Sun was not even created until the 4th day of creation. It just so happens that Yahushua "The Light of our World" was brought forth on the latter part of the 4th day since the creation(remember that, a day is to a 1000 yrs). Day one was 0-999 day two was 1000-1999 day three was 2000-2999 day four was 3000-3999. Look in history when did Messiah Yahushua arise on the scene ? He was born in the latter portion of the 4th millinum. On the 4th Day. Have you not seen it written in the words of YAH.

Malachi 4:2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.

So here we have spritial light existing before physical light. Yahushua existed in a spritial form before he was manifested into the physical. This verse does not mean we worship the SUN.Please undersand that the order of creation and the teaching that Yahushua is the "Light of Our World" is yet another indication of when we were to expect our Messiah." Also we can see where the false teaching of Sun worship developed from a spritial metaphor. YAh new this was going to happen which is why he established a the begining of a 24 hour period of time at sunset and also put us on a lunar calander. Take notice that months are calculated from "One new moon to another".

Isaiah 66:23 And it shall come to pass, that from one new moon to another, and from one sabbath to another, shall all flesh come to worship before me, saith the LORD.

Take special note that the New Moons are best seen at or around the period near sunset. Also take special note that the hebrew word often rendered month in english is Codesh and literialy means "New Moon". Many FALSE teachers are teaching we should be on a Solar calander this is completely false.

I hope this helps some. Your Friend and fellow servent,

**Sandy** · 01-23-2001, 03:31 PM

Originally posted by Yahnathan
Sandy again you are resultimg to faulty circular reasoning to establish your false view. There is no dought in any scholars mind that there are at least two diff definations of the word day. Again these would be the complete period of 24 hours or the daylight portain of a 24 hour period.

Yahnathan, I have not argued that DAY can mean both the daylight portion of the day as well as a 24 hour period.

Evening too has more than one defination as we see in the true defination of the hebrew Beyn Ha Arbayim. Bein Ha Arbayim litteraly means between the evenings. This tells us there are two evenings spoken of in scripture. The First evening begins during the daylight portion of the day as the sun begins to decend toward the west at about 3 pm. The second evening begins at sunset. This tells us the proper defination of Beyn Ha arbayim is between 3pm and sunset.

Did you come to this conclusion on your own or did it come from Jewish sources?

I will first address your instistance that the Scripture in Lev 7:15 teaches that sunrise begins a new 24 hour day. It does no such thing.

I have never stated that sunrise begins a new 24 hour day. I stated that I believe in the possibility that a day starts with first light, which is the period of twilight before sunrise.

Lev 7:15 And the flesh of the sacrifice of his peace offerings for thanksgiving shall be eaten the same day(day light portion) that it is offered; he shall not leave any of it until the morning(or break of a new light portion).

A close examination of scripture will prove that all sacrifices took place during the daylight portion of the day.

Leviticus 7:15 ...in the day of his offering, it shall be eaten. He shall not leave of it until morning.

Exodus 12
8) And they shall eat the flesh in this night...
10) And you shall not leave of it till morning...

Some sacrifices had to be eaten in that very same daylight portion(not a 24 hour period) . These sacrifices that were to be eaten in the same daylight portion were sacrified with the morning sacrifice in order that it may be eaten in that same daylight portion. However there were other sacrifices that could be held over and eaten also on the next daylight portion.These sacrifices were sacrificed with the evening sacrifices which took place between 3pm and sunset. In the verse in question, Lev 7:15, This particualr sacrifice was one that had to be eaten that same daylight portion and could not be held over until the next daylight portion. Your instistance that this proves that a 24 hours day begins at sunset is inacurate and is refuted by many instances. Since you have not addressed these I will bring them to light for our readers.

Take special notice that not only(as you stated) is atonement kept from night to night but also The Feast of Unleavened bread.

It is kept from evening to evening not night to night.

Ex 12:18 In the first month, on the fourteenth day of the month at even, ye shall eat unleavened bread, until the one and twentieth day of the month at even.

Notice the hebrew word for even here is ereb strongs # 6153 means dusk:+day, even( evening tide), night. Remember the two diff evenings spoken of in scripture, here they are. The first evening is the latter part of the day the latter is the period of dusk, twilight that extends into night. I have already chalanged you once to find a scripture that uses the hebrew word ereb in the context of a morning twilight. Since you propose that The evening and morning in Gen was a period of morning twilight and then a day light portion.

I have never said

The evening and morning in Gen was a period of morning twilight and then a day light portion.

Of course this is not what scripture says at all. It clearly states that Darkness was on the face of the deep and then Elohim said Let there be light. You may ask when does the new day begin the first evening or the second evening ? In my opinion the next day(new 24 hour period) does not begin until complete darkness. As in the Begining there was complete darkness in a spiritial since and the earth was also spiritialy void.

Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and DARKNESS was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

Actually it does not say "the earth was without form and void" it says "the earth was (or became) desolate and empty".

Take special notice that the Light that is brought forth here is not the Sun. Remember that the Sun was not created until the 4th day. We will discuss this more in detail later.

It is interesting to note that the trees and the plants were created on day three, which is also before the sun was supposedly created (Genesis 1:10-13). Considering that they cannot survive without sunlight how do you explain this?

=snip=

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