Grace and works

[beseder]

shalom all

I have been in a troubled setting against myself for a while now.
One thing that i thought i have finally understood is the idea of grace and mercy and how it ties in with works. right now im not sure.

I uderstood grace to be the patience of eloheinu yisrael, however, it seems thatthere is much more to this.

so can please, any of you, share what this is- Grace, and how it ties in with works.

my concern is that i may be one of them that was called, but not chosen. I notice that i have lost any fear i had, even if it was a little- and i want it back in heavy dosage...right now, i have a concern- and this is not good.

please help in anyway you can-(even outside this topic). If you are righteous, then pray for me- I need to confess to anyone that has the grace of meshikenu YHshWH LIVING in them. I need the grace of Him- and I need His stregnth to expose myself.

[email protected]

Antonio-AntotiYAh

[israelthebride]

FAITH

This is what I have learned.
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FAITH is submitting to YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation), whether ONE believes it or not.

GRACE is YH'SHWH giving US HIS SALVATION through HIMSELF as MESSIAH.

FAITH is an ACT of LOVE. ONE submits to HIS WORD/LAW because ONE TRUSTS YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW. Again, whether ONE believes it or not.

"...those who LOVE ME will OBEY MY COMMANDMENTS..."

GRACE is HIS LOVE for US. All WE need to do is believe it.

JN 6:28 Then said they unto HIM, What shall we do, that we might work the WORKs of GOD?

JN 6:29 YH'SHWH answered and said unto them, This is the WORK of GOD, that ye believe on HIM whom HE hath sent.
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So, SALVATION is given. All WE need do is believe HIM.

Again, FAITH is acting on HIS WORD/LAW because ONE believes HIM to BE TRUE.
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1. ONE will always feel like a hypocrite.

2. ONE will always feel so unworthy.

3. ONE will always think that YH'SHWH's WORD/LAW does not fit at this time or that time.

4. ONE will always feel like hiding.

5. ONE will always ask, "How can YH'SHWH LOVE me?"
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These are my answers to me.

1. I am.

2. I am.

3. It does whether I believe it or not.

4. YH'SHWH is my hiding place. No one need to see me.

5. In shame, I act on HIS WORD/LAW (my LOVE for HIM) only because HE LOVED me first (HIS SALVATION).
_______

Now, armed with HIS GIFT of SALVATION,

I must overcome; by works.


REV 2:7 He that hath an ear, let him hear what SPIRIT saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of GOD.

REV 2:11 He that hath an ear, let him hear what SPIRIT saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.

REV 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what SPIRIT saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

REV 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKs unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REV 3:5 He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the Book of Life, but I will confess his name before ABBA, and before HIS Angels.

REV 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of GOD, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the NAME of GOD, and the name of the city of GOD, which is new YERU'SHALOM, which cometh down out of heaven from GOD: and I will write upon him MY NEW NAME.

REV 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with ME in my throne, even as I also overcame, and am set down with ABBA in HIS THRONE.

REV 17:14 These shall make war with the LAMB, and the LAMB shall overcome them: for he is LORD of Lords, and KING of Kings: and they that are with HIM are CALLED, and CHOSEN, and FAITHFUL.

REV 21:7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his GOD, and he shall be MY SON.

In these verses the human is referred to in a male directive.

YH'SHWH says, "I will be their GOD and they will BE MY PEOPLE."
____________

Here on some verses on works:

REV 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

REV 2:5 Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.

REV 2:9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of satan.

REV 2:13 I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast MY NAME, and hast not denied MY FAITH, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where satan dwelleth.

REV 2:19 I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.

REV 2:23 And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I AM HE which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.

REV 2:26 And he that overcometh, and keepeth MY WORKs unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:

REV 3:1 And unto the angel of the church in Sardis write; These things saith he that hath the seven SPIRITs of GOD, and the seven stars; I know thy works, that thou hast a name that thou livest, and art dead.

REV 3:2 Be watchful, and strengthen the things which remain, that are ready to die: for I have not found thy works perfect before GOD.

REV 3:8 I know thy works: behold, I have set before thee an open door, and no man can shut it: for thou hast a little strength, and hast kept my word, and hast not denied MY NAME.

REV 3:15 I know thy works, that thou art neither cold nor hot: I would thou wert cold or hot.

REV 9:20 And the rest of the men which were not killed by these plagues yet repented not of the works of their hands, that they should not worship devils, and idols of gold, and silver, and brass, and stone, and of wood: which neither can see, nor hear, nor walk:

REV 14:13 And I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me, Write, Blessed are the dead which die in the LORD from henceforth: Yea, saith SPIRIT, that they may rest from their labours; and their works do follow them.

REV 18:6 Reward her even as she rewarded you, and double unto her double according to her works: in the cup which she hath filled fill to her double.

REV 20:12 And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before GOD; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the Book of Life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

REV 20:13 And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

REV 21:27 And there shall in no wise enter into it any thing that defileth, neither whatsoever worketh abomination, or maketh a lie: but they which are written in the LAMB's Book of Life.

REV 22:12 And, behold, I come quickly; and MY REWARD is with ME, to give every man according as his work shall be.
____________

GRACE is SALVATION given to US - FREE by YH'SHWH.

WORKs is the result of believing WE are SAVED.

LOVE, RICOEL

[Spying]

Escape?

Hi Antonio,

Did you get my message through the forum instance message system the other day?

This is a vast topic that goes to the heart of the religion practiced by our Father Abraham, and the truth of this topic exposes false Christianity and her mentor, substitutional Judaism, as being the seed of Satan.

I do not separate belief from works in my mind. Actions come from beliefs. So in my mind they are one and the same.

A work is anything that we do. There are good works, and there are bad works. ELOHIM has determined some of the good works for us. They are related in HIS Torah and in the WORD spoken to us by HIS Prophets. Bad works are anything contrary to what ELOHIM has commanded that we should do. All of us have engaged in bad works. All of us naturally desire to do whatever we are not allowed to do. Of course, the reward for bad works is death.

Now, why would ELOHIM allow us to be contrary to HIMSELF? ELOHIM through man is recreating HIMSELF. Man must be able to distinguish between good and evil. This cannot be taught. It must be experienced. Hence, man is allowed to do and experience evil.

Evil is defiling. Evil deeds are defiling. The reward for doing evil is death. Death is the ultimate defiler.

So, we have a big mess, don't we? What is the solution?

Religious Jews believe that doing Torah is the solution. So, religious Jews do the Torah, and then they die. Christians believe that belief or faith is the solution. So, Christians believe, and then they die. So, doing and believing both lead to the same result, death.

A fool is someone who continues to follow the same course of action expecting to obtain a result different from that which has always been obtained. If the expectation is life, why does all religion regardless of whether it requires doing or believing result in death? A reasonable man could readily say that all religion leads to defilement, could he not?

How do we escape the current religion? How do we escape the body of this death, or how do we escape this body of death?

Hang in there, Antonio, there is a new beginning.

Your brother, Allen

[Thummim]

The gate keeper to your soul.

...Antonio, grace is something that YHWH gives to you. Works is something that you give to others. Where is the gift to come from? Who is to be blessed by it? Are you asking for grace, or do you want to bless someone?

...Perhaps a little wisdom will help you. I've found that a person always follows their heart, no matter what they say outwardly. The solution here is to put into your heart the things that you want to be and do. Whatever is within your heart you will bow too and serve. You cannot escape your heart. It will always be stronger than you.

...So what things are in your heart already?

....Michael

[beseder]

hey all.

Spying,
I havent recieved your IM from the forum...wish i had. What did it say?

and Thummim, what i know that is in my heart is evils. I know that I am evil- that is all, and thank you for your advice. I have been trying it for sometime now, however, i would fall back into the same evils.

I wish i could be a hebrew(from the other side)

Shalom
Antonio

[israelthebride]

Hebrew?

If YOU are a CHILD of ABRAHAM;

YOU are HEBREW.

LOVE, RICOEL

[Spying]

The Lost Sheep!

Hi Antonio,

Here is a copy of the instant message. I sent it to Beseder in the private message system located at the bottom of the index page. I rarely send private messages so maybe the system is not working?

Walk About?
Antonio,

Good to see you again at the forum. Are you walking about?

Or are you at home or are you at Philadelphia?

Allen

If YAHWEH ELOHIM desired to convince us that we could perform righteousness and live as Ezekiel does say, would YAHWEH ELOHIM not send us a mentor to show us the way? We all learn through watching and listening to mentors. We cannot learn without a mentor!

Messiah Yahushua is our Mentor. If Yahushua is the type of mentor that dies in my stead in order that ELOHIM might mythically assign righteousness to me, what then have I learned? I have learned that I must continually find innocent people to die for me in order that I might be righteous. What are my prospects with this type of belief system? It is for certain that I am going to die because I will never learn how to accomplish righteousness myself. In the process, I have learned to believe a myth, have I not? I have demonstrated that I have tremendous faith in the lie because in this mythical sacrificial system, I never learn to accept the belief that I myself must accomplish righteousness in order to have life and live. Now, who in all the world does benefit from the above belief system? Surely, not man! Surely, the whole world has been deceived just like Eve. What is the proof of this? Have not all died from Messiah to the present?

Somehow I must learn to perform righteousness? How do I even begin to believe that I can perform all righteousness? Remember righteousness is all the commandments of ELOHIM:

Ps 119:172-176
172 My tongue shall speak of thy word: for all thy commandments are righteousness.
173 Let thine hand help me; for I have chosen thy precepts.
174 I have longed for thy salvation, O YAHWEH; and thy law is my delight.
175 Let my soul live, and it shall praise thee; and let thy judgments help me.
176 I have gone astray like a lost sheep; seek thy servant; for I do not forget thy commandments. (KJV)

Have a good Sabbath!

Sincerely, Spying

[beseder]

measuring rod

Hi Spying,

you said this:
..................................................................................................
Paul talked with YAH, at least three times. Do you know why Messiah did not remove Paul's sin?

If it is the will of Messiah that we conquer the Land, and it is, why did Messiah not remove Paul's sin? This answer to this question gives the reason why I counseled that we should walk in our Land circumspectly.
.................................................................................................... ...

I hold the idea that his "thorn" was something he regretted or had pains of him doing before.

please explain this more- explain this grace that was sufficient- and how it ties into true repentance(to turn your back on sin and never look back, ie, Lot). We as well does paul know that we dont rid of our sin but G-D Messiah does. So whats up?


And Ricoel,
Its not his sons that are hebrews(of flesh) if so, that would include Ishmael and essau. These were not considered hebrews- relatives yes, but not hebrews.
The sons of Avraham are those who walk in his faith. I don't walk in it- though i hope too, i am not in it.
Israelis are not israelis if they do not follow HIS WORD/LAW, the same for Jews

antonio

[beseder]

thanks for the reminder

spying

to perform all righteousness, does not a person NEED messiah(HIS SPIRIT) in them for that- it is not our works, but his?
If we do it on our own, what would make us different from jews and moslems and catholics (doing works to make us right with G-D)

Isnt it all about the faith we have gained by being IN messiah that he does these works? or am i wrong about this?
If i am, i will hear.
But if it isnt like this, then it will make it not as serious as I took the word to be.
I KNOW that i am not a child of G-D because of my many sins- i know that i am not "saved" though at one point i thought i was.


and walking about- yes, i need to be physically walking about, but i dont have messiah to do it. I want to do it, but i need him to do it. and right now, i am pleading with Him.

Antonio

[Thummim]

The curse of the righteous.

Anthony writes;

and Thummim, what i know that is in my heart is evils. I know that I am evil- that is all, and thank you for your advice. I have been trying it for sometime now, however, i would fall back into the same evils.

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...Anthony, why do you even care if you are righteous? Is it like an evil heart, to care about such a matter. It seems to me that you have the curse of the righteous. Ask an evil man to forgive himself, and he does. But ask a righteous man to forgive himself, and he lingers on in his self condemnation. Why would an unrighteous man care whether he is evil, or not? But you seem to care very much. What do you think drives you to be so hard on yourself?

...I've taugh everybody on this site, that a man can be righteous and still sin. Both Moses and Aaron were righteous sinners who were not allowed to crossover into the promised land. This happened because they took it upon themselves to be the deliverers of the people of YHWH, excluding YHWH himself. They took his miracle from him. {It is the Name of "YHWH" that must be santified as the peoples deliverer --> Faith put in a man only lasts until the people find themselves alone and without that man. But YHWH is forever} The author wants his readers to know that it is a very serious sin, to remove from the Name of YHWH, this sanctity. Still in their sin, both Moses and Aaron died. And yet, wouldn't we deem them both to be righteous men? Wouldn't YHWH also deem them to be righteous, as well? As he would tell us, he is their righteousness! They can only be unrighteous if he allows them to be. Why does YHWH want a righteous people? If YHWH can forgive the sins of a righteous people, how long does their righteousness last? How many sins does it take by individuals of this people, to make the whole unrighteous? Does their righteousness last a week, a month, a year, a decade, or even more? It is not the people who make themselves righteous. It is YHWH. When he declares his people to be a righteous people, they are righteous like both Moses and Aaron were. Though sin roams among the people, YHWH will not curse his people by it, until enough of the people partake of the transgression. Then he will send the whole lot into exile.

...I do not know what sin you hold over your head. I hope that it is not something that is a part of human nature, that would come back on a creators claim of, {it was good}. Unless your sin hurts other people, you should turn your attention elsewhere and get a better return for your self oppression. Do something good to ofset your condemnation of yourself. The good may weigh a whole lot more in your favor in the heavenly books, when they are factored together with your shortcoming{s}. On the other hand, if you've got an uncontrollable desire to kill philistines, you might seek YHWH's permission first.

....Michael

[israelthebride]

SONs of ABRAHAM

BESEDER,

I was speaking of the SONs of ABRAHAM today. All of US are SONs of ABRAHAM by FAITH and FAITH alone.

No one (and I mean no one), today, can prove that their blood is directly from ABRAHAM.

All, and I mean all, must be grafted onto the OLIVE TREE; ISRAEL.

Grafted onto ISRAEL by
Submitting to YH'SHWH's GIFT of SALVATION, through HIMSELF as MESSIAH,
and to HIS SPIRIT, WHO LIVES HIS WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) through US.

One who does not submit is an unbeliever; a gentile.
_______

I have learned that one sins when one chooses to.

sin wants to do things without YH'SHWH. This action produces/"fruits" sins.

One will always have sin (in one), but one, in submission to YH'SHWH and HIS SPIRIT, does not have to "fruit" sins.

It takes denying yourself over and over (failing many times) until being with YH'SHWH becomes a habit.

I will never be good. It is YH'SHWH and HIS SPIRIT, in me, that is GOOD.

"...not I, but HE WHO LIVES in ME..."

Read "My Worst Enemy".

LOVE, RICOEL

[Thummim]

Canaanite priests are Canaanites!

...Ricoel writes;

No one (and I mean no one), today, can prove that their blood is directly from ABRAHAM.

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...It is not about blood, but a claim to the Name of YHWH. There is one breach open that has yet to be filled. He {the Canaanite priest/king} has to be a Canaanite {gentile}, as Er is the son of a Canaanite mother against the will of both Abraham and Isaac.

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3 And I will make thee swear by YHWH, the God of heaven, and the God of the earth, that thou shalt not take a wife unto my son of the daughters of the Canaanites, among whom I dwell: Gen. 24: 3

1 And Isaac called Jacob, and blessed him, and charged him, and said unto him, Thou shalt not take a wife of the daughters of Canaan. Gen. 28: 3

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...These verses of text are the setup to the breach that occurs in the line of David and that belongs to a gentile priest/king who inherits the Name of YHWH {YaHudaH}. His claim is a red thread tied to Zerah's wrist. Who has the rite of the first born between the two children? If the line of Judah forgets the Name of its Eloheem, this Canaanite priest can claim the throne of Judah and the priesthood of Melchizedek. You must follow the author's work in setting up his story in the pages of the torah.

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20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;

21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

22 Yea, for thy sake {Hashem} are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

--> It is the Name of YHWH that is deliverer to this people.

23 Awake, why sleepest thou, O Lord? arise, cast us not off for ever. Ps. 44: 20 - 23

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...He {YHWH} sleeps until his Name is claimed by a {gentile} owner of the rite to the Name of YaHudaH {YHWH}. Hashem {the GD}, *is* his Name. Without it, he sleeps while his people are slaughtered by those who are of such a mind. But he does not forget the wrong done to his Name. Justice awaits all!

...Given that it is likely that the incestual father {Judah}, likely had Tamar consecrated to the Name of YHWH, wouldn't it be the mother whose arm is red? <*right arm of YHWH, get it?*> {how else does YHWH tie a red thread to a wrist?} Thirty pieces of silver are the price of her redemption. {Lev. 27: 4} This story is well prepared in the text of the tanakh, and well thought out by its author's.

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21 Yea, every pot in Jerusalem and in Judah shall be holiness unto YHWH of hosts: and all they that sacrifice shall come and take of them, and seethe therein: and in that day there shall be no more the Canaanite in the house of YHWH of hosts. Zech. 14: 21

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...Until this breach is filled, the gentile priest {like Melchizedek} doesn't exist! The moving of birthrites {Ismael, Esau, Reuben, Manasseh, and even Saul (the king), is a set up of the tanakh's author's. It makes way for a redeemer {separate from his brothers} to claim Hashem. "Jesus" can never be the Canaanite priest. He would have to be a Canaanite first. He like the others, will be displaced. You're backing the wrong horse {mangod}. You should know that the Name of YHWH would never let a curse such as christianity is to the JEWish people, claim the throne of YaHudaH. Christianity is the holocaust! Making "Jesus" a king over YaHudaH is like making Hitler the King of the JEWs.

...It's taken the blood of six and a half million JEWs to turn back the wrath of christianity. The JEWish people are all bled out.

....Michael

[israelthebride]

MICHAEL says:

It is not about blood, but a claim to the Name of YHWH.
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I know that is why I AM of YH'SHWH's PEOPLE, ISRAEL, and not a jew.
_______

MICHAEL says:

Until this breach is filled, the gentile priest {like Melchizedek} doesn't exist! The moving of birthrites {Ismael, Esau, Reuben, Manasseh, and even Saul (the king), is a set up of the tanakh's author's. It makes way for a redeemer {separate from his brothers} to claim Hashem. "Jesus" can never be the Canaanite priest. He would have to be a Canaanite first. He like the others, will be displaced. You're backing the wrong horse {mangod}. You should know that the Name of YHWH would never let a curse such as christianity is to the JEWish people, claim the throne of YaHudaH.
___

YH'SHWH is the HEAD of the HUMAN PRIEST. It is not over yet. Read HOSHEA.

WE are the HUMANS of HIS BODY-------ONE!!!

Yes, JUDAH is at the HEAD, YH'SHWH is of the Tribe of JUDAH, but the scattered are coming in as non-jews because they are not of the Tribe of JUDAH.

Do not separate yourselves from the HEAD!!!

LOVE, RICOEL

[Thummim]

The day of the LORD {YHWH} and a Canaanite priest.

...Ricoel writes;

YH'SHWH is the HEAD of the HUMAN PRIEST. It is not over yet. Read HOSHEA.

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...What in Hoshea do you want me to read, that would make "Jesus" the man, a Canaanite son of Er? Where is his red thread? Without it, he can make no claim upon the line of Judah as a Canaanite. The midwife tied a red thread around the wrist of Zerah {brightness --> *like wisdom?*} and said, "this one came out first". But Zerah followed his brother into the world. It's not the firstborn that connects the story together. It's the one who overcomes the firstborn, that is the Canaanite in the house of YHWH. He must figuritively be tied around the wrist of Perez {the breach} who is the JEWish people. When done, we will have a Canaanite priest since GD's Name comes from this same tribe. YaHudaH is the throne of the king and YHWH is the Name of GD. This is a story that has been set up by the author of the torah. The author has done considerable work prepare for chapter 38 of Genesis. Notice how the story of Joseph has been split apart to accommodate this {38th} chapter. Chapters, 37 and 39 should go together. They join up easily without the 38th chapter of Genesis between them.

...Like a typical thief, you want to rob the JEWish people of their blessing and leave us with a curse, which is all that "Jesus" brings to the JEWish people. You could have walked about in any neighborhood in Germany, and asked them what was their faith. Do you know what 999 people out of 1000, {less the JEWish people}, would have answered you? The ratio would have been simular anywhere in Europe, where JEWs were freely given over to the nazi's. Christianity is the responsible faith of these people, and they weren't a friend to the Name of either YaHudaH or YHWH. Do you think that GD is going to reward christianity for their faith? The day of YHWH comes upon the earth because of the mistreatment of the JEWish people. {Joel 3: 2, 14} Where in history have this people been treated worse? And you still cannot pick out the badguys? YHWH doesn't come to defend the world. He comes to defend his own people. But not without his Name. That comes first.

....Michael

[Spying]

Sin That Remains!

Hi Beseder,

You have asked me to explain some very good and thought provoking questions my dear brother! Not long ago I would have not had the knowledge to answer them. My experience with my own sin, especially my experience with vows, has had a tremendous impact on my thinking. I have consulted with two different church groups openly explaining my circumstance to them seeking their counsel concerning my possible course of action. I made a vow, actually it was in the form of a bargain with ELOHIM, that if HE would consent to perform certain functions for me, then I would lose weight all the way down to 185lbs. Messiah performed those functions so fast it made my head swim. Now, I have to lose weight, don’t I? I probably weighed 235 when I made the vow. Today I am pushing 300. I know, get to walking!

One brother counseled me not to worry! He told me that I would eventually pay my vow, that some day in the grave, that I would indeed weigh 185 through the decaying process! Somehow, that doesn’t give me a whole lot of comfort.

Now, DeAnna would say, “Talk to YAH about it!” Yet, we all know what YAH says about those who come begging to change their vows after they discover how hard it is to fulfill their word. So, I must pay my vow! If I did go to Messiah, I know what Messiah would say, “Until you pay your vow, my grace is sufficient for thee!” So, why does Messiah not nullify my vow? It is the same reason that Messiah did not remove Paul’s sin. It is very humbling to know that one is a liar. I have been humbled by my sin, and Messiah used Paul’s sin to also keep him humble. Pride would have been the ruin of both Paul and me! So, Messiah is in charge. I will pay my vow after I have learned humility!

Your brother, Spying