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A priest- from the tribe of Judah?

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  • A priest- from the tribe of Judah?

    Hebrews 5:6 tells us that Messiah is our "priest forever, in the order of Melchizedek." How is it, may I ask, that Messiah could rightfully be a priest when we know that he was of the tribe of Judah, not Levi? I have an idea, but I wanted to get a thread going on this, to see what you all think...

  • #2
    YH'SHWH is the HEAD of HIS BODY.

    PS 110:1 YH'WH said unto YH'WH, Sit THOU at MY RIGHT HAND, until I make THINE enemies THY footstool.

    PS 110:2 YH'WH shall send the rod of THY STRENGTH out of ZION: rule thou in the midst of THINE enemies.

    PS 110:3 THY people shall be willing in the day of THY POWER, in the BEAUTIES of HOLINESS from the womb of the morning: THOU hast the dew of THY YOUTH.

    PS 110:4 YH'WH hath sworn, and will not repent, THOU art a priest for ever after the order of MELCHIZEDEK.

    PS 110:5 YH'WH at THY RIGHT HAND shall strike through kings in the day of HIS WRATH.

    PS 110:6 HE shall judge among the heathen, HE shall fill the places with the dead bodies; HE shall wound the heads over many countries.

    PS 110:7 HE shall drink of the brook in the way: therefore shall HE lift up the HEAD.

    I have always believed that YH'SHWH is PRIEST because HIS WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) says so and because HE is the HEAD of ZION (ISRAEL) HIS BODY.

    WE are:

    EX 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey MY VOICE indeed, and keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto ME above all people: for all the earth is MINE:

    EX 19:6 And ye shall be unto ME a kingdom of priests, and an HOLY nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of ISRAEL.

    1PET 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of HIM who hath called you out of darkness into HIS marvellous LIGHT;

    1PET 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of GOD: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.


    WE are HIS ISRAEL.

    WE are ONE!!!

    The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

    I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
    That is why I SAVED YOU.
    For ME.



    • #3
      A Son Of David And A Son Of Levi

      Hi Matthew23,

      Excellent! I believe that YAHWEH ELOHIM is a priest. Since I also believe that Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM, then Messiah must also be a priest. This is easier said than proved!

      It is written that a man of lawlessness must appear and sit in the Temple of ELOHIM.

      Will this man be a priest after the order of Aaron or a priest after the order of Melchizedek?

      Will this man sit in a rebuilt physical Temple in physical Jerusalem or will this man arise from the midst of the reborn spiritual Temple? (Matthew23, this question presupposes that historical Christianity is a part of the Babylonian system of false religion. This is not said to give you offence! This question presupposes that Thummim is correct in his analysis that a new religion is arising in our time. All of us are being called to that reborn way!)

      All who say that Yahushua is the Messiah also say that Yahushua is a priest. Is it not lawlessness to promote anyone as a priest who is not of Levi?

      Here is what YAHWEH ELOHIM has promised:
      Jer 33:20-22
      20 Thus saith YAHWEH; If ye can break my covenant of the day, and my covenant of the night, and that there should not be day and night in their season;
      21 Then may also my covenant be broken with David my servant, that he should not have a son to reign upon his throne; and with the Levites the priests, my ministers.
      22 As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, neither the sand of the sea measured: so will I multiply the seed of David my servant, and the Levites that minister unto me. (KJV)
      According to the WORD of YAHWEH, do we not run the risk of being called LAWLESS if we say that Messiah is not also somehow of the tribe of Levi? It sure seems to me that we should be able to prove that Messiah is both a son of David and a son of Levi!

      Sincerely, Spying
      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


      • #4
        The root of Jesse is YaHudaH, a Name in breach.

        Melchizedek talk

        ...Hello all, Melchizedek is a Caananite priest who needs no connection to either Judah or Levi. He is both the king of Jerusalem and the priest of the most high GD {YHWH}. He who owns the red thread {a Cannanite claim upon the Name of YaHudaH}, would inherit both the throne of Judah and the priesthood of YHWH. In order to inherit these things, the question of birthrite would have to be answered. Who really owns the birthrite of the Name of YaHudaH, of either Perez or Zerah? Are these Caananite children or JEWish children? Is Er, whose children these are, a Caanite or a Judite? {Is he both?} If so, he may have opened the door for the inheritor of the throne of Judah and the Name of GD, to be a Caananite {Gentile}. YHWH, the Name of YHWH, is taken from the Name of YaHudaH. This makes him both priest and king. YaHudaH is the throne of Israel and also the tribe chosen by YHWH, to bear his Name. The Niv translation of Genesis 49: 10, possibilitly gives a throne to a gentile who is JEWish by his inherited Name. {YaHudaH}


        The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the rulers staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his. Gen. 49: 10 NIV


        Gen. chap. 38

        ...Perez means "breach". This is the only breach that needs healing in the tanakh. If the children of Israel should forget the Name of their GD, would that leave open the throne of Israel to a claimant of GD's Name? He would be both priest and king in the Name of YHWH, his rite. The JEWish people {the name of YaHudaH} would belong to him, as well {and I hate to say it} as the collected peoples of "Yeshua?". It seems to me that he who extended his hand from the womb of Tamar, owns the Name of YaHudaH, but through a Caananite {gentile} avenue of inheritance. Melchizedek would be reborn and his throne would last forever. As goes with these, Ishmael, Esau, Reuben, Manasseh and Saul, so goes it with "Jesus", who himself cannot inherit this throne. It belongs to a Canaanite who is JEWish by the Name that he inherits. I assume that he could refuse christianities claim to be heirs, if he chose to.


        12 And I said unto them, If ye think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver.

        13 And YHWH said unto me, Cast it unto the potter: a goodly price that I was prised at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of YHWH. {the house of YaHudaH, --> *Judah*}

        14 Then I cut asunder mine other staff, even Bands, that I might break the brotherhood between Judah and Israel. Zech. 11: 12 - 14


        2 Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When a man shall make a singular vow, the persons shall be for YHWH by thy estimation.

        3 And thy estimation shall be of the male from twenty years old even unto sixty years old, even thy estimation shall be fifty shekels of silver, after the shekel of the sanctuary.

        4 And if it be a female, then thy estimation shall be thirty shekels. The price of Tamar's consecration to the Name of YHWH.

        --> {Is Tamar consecrated to YHWH with her womb carrying the twins fathered by her husbands own father? Thirty pieces of silver used here would separate the brotherhood of YaHudah from Israel *Zech. 11: 14*} Lev. 27: 2 - 4

        The ungiven promised son

        21 The sons of Shelah the son of Judah were, Er the father of Lecah, and Laadah the father of Mareshah, and the families of the house of them that wrought fine linen, of the house of Ashbea,

        22 And Jokim, and the men of Chozeba, and Joash, and Saraph, who had the dominion in Moab, and Jashubi-lehem. And these are ancient things.

        23 These were the potters, and those that dwelt among plants and hedges: there they dwelt with the king for his work.


        ...Zechariah wrote in his knowledge of the Torah and the tanakh, of his Messiah. These verses of text put together may shed some light on what he believed.



        • #5
          Yeshua: our Great High Priest.
          Hebrews 7:11-16
          If perfection could have been attained through the Levitical priesthood (for on the basis of it the law was given to the people), why was there still need for another priest to come- one in the order of Melchizedek, not in the order of Aaron? For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law. He of whom these things are said belonged to a different tribe, and no one from that tribe has ever served at the altar. For it is clear that our Lord descended from Judah, and in regard to that tribe Moses said nothing about priests. And what we have said is even more clear if another priest like Melchizedek appears, one who has become a priest not on the basis of a regulation as to his ancestry but on the basis of the power of indestructible life.
          A point of change... the Jordan...
          Matthew 3:13-15
          Then Jesus came from Galilee to the Jordan to be baptized by John. But John tried to deter him, saying, "I need to be baptized by you, and do you come to me?" Jesus replied, "Let it be so now; it is proper for us to do this to fulfill all righteousness."
          Who is this John character? A descendant of Aaron...
          Luke 1:5
          In the time of Herod king of Judea there was a priest named Zechariah, who belonged to the priestly division of Abijah; his wife Elizabeth was also a descendant of Aaron.
          John being from a priestly family, knew Yeshua's purpose!...
          John 1:29
          The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!..."
          Yeshua was born King of the Jews (Mt 2:2). He said it was proper for him to be baptized by John in order to fulfill all righteousness. When he came up out of the waters of the Jordan, he was King of Righteousness!...
          Hebrews 7:1-2
          This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"...
          Melchizedek was a priest over the gentiles (for Abram was not a jew yet).
          Through the Levites came a high priest over the Jews.
          Yeshua is our Great High Priest over Jew AND gentile.


          • #6
            For thou desirest not sacrifice; else would I give it:

            Matthew23 writes;

            John being from a priestly family, knew Yeshua's purpose!...
            John 1:29
            The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!..."

            ...How does "Jesus" take away the sin of the world. There is no sacrifice to do this, nor can the slaughter of a passover lamb remit any sin. Nor can "Jesus" really claim Isaiah 53 without being his people's peace and delivering them from the Roman occupation. You see, if an intercessor interceeds, and is any good at his craft at all, the people are freed as Isaiah 53 plainly makes clear. YHWH never requires the shedding of innocent blood. That would defile what it touches. So how does "Jesus" take away the sins of the world? That would be YHWH's domain, the letters of whose Name are not even used in the NT.



            • #7
              the priest of the Passover

              Caiaphas, the high priest- all dressed up before the Sanhedrin (Mt.26:57) would have wore the following as part of his priestly garments:
              Exodus 28:31 And thou shalt make the robe of the ephod all of blue.
              32 And there shall be an hole in the top of it, in the midst thereof: it shall have a binding of woven work round about the hole of it, as it were the hole of an habergeon, that it be not rent.

              What happened to Caiaphus' clothes?
              Matthew 26:63 But Jesus held his peace, And the high priest answered and said unto him, I adjure thee by the living God, that thou tell us whether thou be the Christ, the Son of God.
              64 Jesus saith unto him, Thou hast said: nevertheless I say unto you, Hereafter shall ye see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
              65 Then the high priest rent his clothes, saying, He hath spoken blasphemy; what further need have we of witnesses? behold, now ye have heard his blasphemy.

              Why did the high priest become so irate?
              Psalm 110:1 The LORD said unto my Lord, Sit thou at my right hand, until I make thine enemies thy footstool.
              2 The LORD shall send the rod of thy strength out of Zion: rule thou in the midst of thine enemies.
              3 Thy people shall be willing in the day of thy power, in the beauties of holiness from the womb of the morning: thou hast the dew of thy youth.
              4 The LORD hath sworn, and will not repent, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchizedek.

              Uh oh! Caiaphus is in trouble!
              Leviticus 10:6 And Moses said unto Aaron, and unto Eleazar and unto Ithamar, his sons, Uncover not your heads, neither rend your clothes; lest ye die...

              There is no longer a high priest who is worthy of overseeing the next day's sacrifices!... or is there another who IS worthy?
              John10:17 Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.
              18 No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.

              The Jews didn't kill Yeshua. The Romans didn't kill him. It was my sin that killed him.
              Hebrews 9:13 For if the blood of bulls and of goats, and the ashes of an heifer sprinkling the unclean, sanctifieth to the purifying of the flesh:
              14 How much more shall the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God?

              It is Finished! Praise be to Yeshua- the God who saves!


              • #8
                A messiah who cannot purify Levi?

                1 Behold, I will send my messenger, and he shall prepare the way before me: and the Lord, whom ye seek, shall suddenly come to his temple, even the messenger of the covenant, whom ye delight in: behold, he shall come, saith YHWH of hosts.

                2 But who may abide the day of his coming? and who shall stand when he appeareth? for he is like a refiner's fire, and like fullers' soap:

                3 And he shall sit as a refiner and purifier of silver: and he shall purify the sons of Levi, and purge them as gold and silver, that they may offer unto YHWH an offering in righteousness.

                4 Then shall the offering of Judah and Jerusalem be pleasant unto YHWH, as in the days of old, and as in former years.


                ...Who does this speak of, who will suddenly come to his temple and make the offerings of the priests exceptable? How does this work with Zechariah's righteous Jerusalem and Judah, that can use holy vessels? {Zech. 14: 20, 21} Since this cannot speak of "Jesus", another more than he, must come. Here we see that Jerusalem is a blessed city and not the Jerusalem of "Jesus", that is cursed by him. {Lk. 19: 43, 44} Can we conclude that neither Malachi or Zechariah's Messiah is "Jesus", since they both leave Jerusalem with a blessed priesthood? If "Jesus" is to sit on the right hand of GD, shouldn't he first learn how to bring the priesthood of Levi into honor? Shouldn't he learn how to deliver Jerusalem of its enemies first? There are so few scriptures in the tanakh, that leave Jerusalem in the time of messiah with a curse, that "Jesus" becomes questionable as a messiah at all. The Romans did kill "Jesus" since there was no capital punishment issued by Rome for breaking other than their own laws. Pilate does not rule on the workings of Levitical law.



                • #9
                  The Change!

                  Hi Matthew23,

                  These two scriptures have something in common:
                  Heb 7:12
                  12 For the priesthood being changed, there is made of necessity a change also of the law. (KJV)

                  Heb 11:5
                  5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because ELOHIM had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased ELOHIM. (KJV)
                  The verbs in bold and the nouns underlined are all related. So, we could say that the Levitical priesthood and the physical Torah have been translated. If we can understand what happened to Enoch, then we can understand exactly what took place with the priesthood and with the Law.

                  There is no possibility that Messiah could fulfill the righteousness required by the Law concerning the physical High Priesthood. However, if one should turn the Priesthood and the Law in one's hand until you are looking at both from a different or alternative perspective, then the fulfillment of all righteousness becomes possible. This requires a translation of thinking in much the same fashion that we change from one language to another. In this case, one must turn or switch from thinking on a physical level to a thinking which is on a spiritual level. This does not mean that the physical no longer exists. Righteousness can still be performed and in certain cases must be performed on a physical level. A good example of this can be seen in the New Testament as we watch Messiah Yahushua keep the physical Sabbath according to his custom, but at times under certain circumstances, Messiah would work on the Sabbath clearly breaking the Sabbath on a physical level. However, if we understand that healing on the Sabbath was required of Messiah because Messiah Yahushua was also engaged in the activity of a spiritual High Priest, then we can begin to acquire a sense of how Messiah was able to bring about the complete translation of the Priesthood and the Law. Messiah's work was for all practical purposes a covert operation. The only human beings who are made aware of his activity are those who have a need to know. They are called the ELECT.

                  Those who think solely on the physical level cannot even begin to see what is happening on the spiritual level. They cannot see because the right hand does not allow the left hand to understand its activity. The spiritual understands both, and thus the spiritual can succeed in fulfilling all righteousness.

                  I know that this response probably raises more questions than it gives answers.

                  I generally liked your post about Messiah becoming the Great High Priest.

                  Sincerely, Spying
                  The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                  • #10
                    Interesting stuff, Spying. The book of Hebrews is a very cool book. Any opinion on who actually wrote it

                    I don't have a clue, but if I had to guess, I'd say Paul:
                    Acts 9:20-22
                    20Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus. At once he began to preach in the synagogues that Jesus is the Son of God. 21All those who heard him were astonished and asked, "Isn't he the man who raised havoc in Jerusalem among those who call on this name? And hasn't he come here to take them as prisoners to the chief priests?" 22Yet Saul grew more and more powerful and baffled the Jews living in Damascus by proving that Jesus is the Christ.

                    Acts 17:2-3
                    2As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures, 3explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said.
                    I'd say the book of Hebrews is some pretty good proof that Yeshua is who He is


                    • #11
                      Re: YH'SHWH is the HEAD of HIS BODY.

                      Originally posted by israelthebride
                      EX 19:5 Now therefore, if ye will obey MY VOICE indeed, and keep MY COVENANT, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto ME above all people: for all the earth is MINE:

                      EX 19:6 And ye shall be unto ME a kingdom of priests, and an HOLY nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of ISRAEL.

                      1PET 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an HOLY nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of HIM who hath called you out of darkness into HIS marvellous LIGHT;

                      1PET 2:10 Which in time past were not a people, but are now the people of GOD: which had not obtained mercy, but now have obtained mercy.
                      we shall be dedicated in service to Him... as priests... set apart to do the will of the One that created us


                      • #12
                        Looking up, one man sees the face of messiah, another just sees clouds.

                        ...Matt and others,

                        Acts 17:2-3

                        2 As his custom was, Paul went into the synagogue, and on three Sabbath days he reasoned with them from the Scriptures,

                        3 explaining and proving that the Christ had to suffer and rise from the dead. "This Jesus I am proclaiming to you is the Christ," he said.


                        ...Most christians just except what is written in the NT as fact. How I would love to challenge Paul on this statement that he makes. So Paul, where is it written that "Jesus" will rise from the dead in three days, after he suffers many things? Be aware Paul, I am not like the children that you reasoned with before. I'm going to make you prove it. I'm going to take you deep into reasoning by telling you what these words of yours really speak of.

                        ...Then Paul is silent. Are there any takers to challenge me and prove what Paul says here? I'm calling Paul misinformed and am telling him that the tanakh says no such thing.

                        ...If Paul is wrong in this statement, and his words cannot be proven, {that messiah will rise on the third day after suffering many things} then why believe anything else that he says is more than his own opinion?



                        • #13
                          A Tiny Portion Of Paul?

                          Hi Thummim,

                          Good day to you and yours. I have been neglecting you, my friend, responding to others, and I have not caught up. I am behind. I still need to write to DeAnna, but I can't resist giving you a short "Hi" today:
                          I'm going to make you prove it.
                          It is possible that you just may have enough influence with Paul that he may help you do exactly as you have stated. Consider this statement of Paul:
                          1 Cor 2:11-12
                          11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of ELOHIM knoweth no man, but the Spirit of ELOHIM.
                          12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of ELOHIM; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of ELOHIM. (KJV)
                          If you have indeed been given by ELOHIM even the tiniest portion of Paul's spirit, then in time, what he has written will be opened and proven to you.

                          Have a good Sabbath Day,

                          Your Brother, Spying
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                          • #14
                            Paul talk.

                            ...Spying, you may be appraising Paul too highly. My spirit is something more like fire and dark clouds. {old testement} That might trump Paul's authority. As to "Jesus", you must be aware that you cannot build him a strong foundation out of the old testement, to stand upon. I love proving this. The Name of YHWH is a hard thing for all christians to choke down. But I'm glad that you cannot be lumped into this category. Your declaration that the JEWish people are a righteous people, puts you above christianity. Do you believe that the JEWish people outside of the faith of "Jesus", are damned? Your declaration could be thin.

                            ...And wonderful talking with you. I sure do enjoy it.



                            • #15
                              to your question thummim

                              I'll answer you as a rabbi or a "jew" would answer one who is non-"jewish"

                              "who's a Jew?"

                              I'll tell you, those who are jews are not condemned. And the reason why i put myself in sucha category of not bwing of Israel is because of my heart...I am Idle, good for no one, lazy - worse than one that destroys things. I am no true Israeli though I have the blood of an israeli.

                              Essau was no hebrew though his father was- and same goes with Ishmael.

                              So who is a jew? The ongoing rhetorical question of the rabbis
                              ONE G-D, ONE SPIRIT, ONE MESSIAH.
                              ONE COMMUNITY/IKKLESIA/K'HILLA, ONE BODY, ONE BRIDE.
                              ONE TORAH [MEMRA(audible) and KHOCHMA(written)], ONE MASORAH.

                              OBEY YE THE SOFRIM (HAKHAMIM) and the PERUSHIM for they are the only ones given right to and power to interpret scripture. DO AS THEY TELL YOU but do not do as the Colored-Rabbis and colored pharisees tell you, for they are Painted!(Matt 23:1-3)