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**israelthebride** · 01-26-2003, 01:04 PM

Similarities

The similarities between Rome and the U.S. are:

1. The Senate

2. The form of government.

3. The power each has in how other countries make decisions.

4. The roads

5. The eagle as their symbol.

6. The way the people live.

7. How everything's value depends at what the price of gold is.
_______

But, what I have noticed is that "Babylon" is moving into Rome. The people of "Babylon" are moving in and taking control of different areas.

Let me put it this way, "Babylon" has the "abomination" on the Temple Mount; the ROCK of YH'SHWH. That "abomination" must fall.

It will,
just like the walls of Jericho.

This is the first task of the TWO WITNESSES.

LOVE, RICOEL

**Spying** · 01-27-2003, 08:36 AM

Weapons Of Mass Destruction

Hi Israelthebride,

Thank you for your reply. I desire to ascertain whether we are thinking similarly? It is ok if we are not thinking similarly! It is through diversity and the circumstance of opposition that our knowledge and understanding increases. This increase occurs because we are all given our answers as promised by Messiah!

Rome = the present day World?

Julius Caesar = the United States?

Babylon = the World's religions, i.e. Christianity, Judaism, Islam, Hinduism, etc?

Babylon, therefore, = confusion?

(It is not by coincidence that in the physical, the United States is now being moved to oppose and destroy the historical source of Babylon. She does possess weapons of mass destruction!)

The Holy Place = the present Age (Hebrews 9:9), the 6000 years of the rule of men, a rule which can never come to completion, hence 666 or the incomplete # or nature of man, the day on which physical man was created?

The Abomination = Messiah, hanging and suffering on the Cross?

The Standing (Matthew 24:15) = the erection of the Cross, the exaltation and glorification of sin through confusion? (All sin is included in the erection of the Cross, but I am particularly thinking here of those sins committed with great arrogance like abortion and homosexuality.)?

The removal of the Abomination = repentance?

I love you also, RicoEL!

Gold = what? What does it equal in your thinking (Revelation 3:18)? Anyone else care to say?

Sincerely, Spying

**israelthebride** · 01-28-2003, 01:37 AM

SPYING,

You are correct that in our differences will be the STRENGTH of HIS BODY. I believe that an elbow and a knee will move/teach different ways/ideas, but they will both teach for the body.

In HIS LOVE:
WE treat each other right and good, because YH'SHWH says so,
No matter how we feel;
No matter what we think.

In HIS LOVE, WE will BE ONE.
_______

YOU have opened my SPIRIT EYES and EARS to some things (Rome, Julius Ceasar,Babylon), but I still believe that the abomination is that building that represents the god of the people of the world. The world will turn to this god of the air, allah. This building sits upon the physical "ROCK of YH'SHWH".

WE, as part of the Two Witnesses, will destroy this building just as the walls of Jericho were destroyed.

Keep sharpening me, my FRIEND.

LOVE, RICOEL

**Thummim** · 01-30-2003, 01:19 PM

Owning the treasures of darkness?

Ricoel and Spying,

...Aren't you comparing America to the wrong country? Cyrus came down from Persia and became a rod in YHWH's hand. With it, he delivered his people from Babylon. What did Rome do for YHWH? But America is like Cyrus and his Persia. Have you any doubt that without America, the moslem nations would eat up Israel, just like a snake would eat up a defenseless mouse? So shouldn't you be comparing America to a nation which is a blessing to YHWH's intentions? Ask any moslem what keeps Israel alive in the middle east? They will tell you that America is the cause of all of the conflict that Israel stirs up. America always favors the JEWish people against them. The Arab countries know that they would have to defeat America, to defeat Israel. Now you complain that America is infected with its own sins. This may be, but it doesn't at all mean that YHWH desires the downfall of America. As long as America can be a rod in YHWH's hand, to use against the enemies of his Name, he can concede the treasures of darkness to it. This is not unlike him.

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1 Thus saith YHWH to his anointed, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, YHWH, which call thee by thy name, {Cyrus} am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee, though thou hast not known me. {or what I was up too}

5 I am YHWH, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, {Cyrus} --> though thou hast not known me: Isa. 45: 1 - 5

...So here we see that YHWH doesn't always ask that one of his servants be above his worldly ways. If you serve his Name, he may give the treasures of darkness to you. Since Rome did not give anything to the Name of YHWH, it was not in his blessing. But what of America? Hasn't it occured to you, that America is in the same place that the Persia of Cyrus was in, in his time of the needs of YHWH for a nation to be a rod in his hand? And yet there is another consideration to make. America is the homeland of more JEWish people, then any other country. And for every JEW, there are perhaps another ten people who consider themselves to be JEWish by another formula. {perhaps even a hundred JEWbe's if you include certain peoples of christianity in the formula} If you add it all up, America may be more than a target of YHWH's wrath. America may be the voice of GD saying to the possible Enemies of Israel and all JEWs, "Hands of, or I'll break you like a useless pot!". Give America some credit. It is leading the way to a new idea in this world. This people {including Israel} will be free to choose there own destony. It is interesting that America is about to rid Israel of one of its worst enemies. Why do you think that Sadam names his army of the people of Iraq, "the army of Jerusalem"? If you listen, people haven the habit of telling on themselves. We know Sadam's intent. So YHWH may just consider America to be the {other} homeland of his people, where the foundation of the earth is found, may even serve heaven's purpose in apportioning our world to a more righteous outcome.

....Michael

**israelthebride** · 01-30-2003, 11:52 PM

Again?

MICHAEL,

Here you are using YH'SHWH's WORD to fit something that is happening, now, at this time.

When we do this, you keep reminding us that the WORD of YH'SHWH is for that time and that time only.
_______

I am not disagreeing with you using HIS WORD to describe a situation today.

HIS WORD is CONSISTANT. HIS WORD can and will be fulfilled every moment.

In my life and in all things around me, YH'SHWH's WORD is being fulfilled over and over. It's like HIS SHABBAT. Our HOLINESS, through HIM, is fulfilled every SHABBAT.

YH'SHWH's WORD is HIS PLAN. HE has said it and it will happen.

LOVE, RICOEL

**Thummim** · 01-31-2003, 01:34 PM

Don't look through christian eyes. Look at what really is.

...Ricoel, look at what America is to Israel. Couldn't this reflect YHWH's purpose and plan for our time. I use the time of Cyrus, only as an example. Here YHWH used another nation to bring about his will and deliver his people. Couldn't this also be happening now? Seeing the only nation that consistantly stands by Israel and likely is its only chance to survive, as being the equivilent of Rome, needs comment from me. There is a better way to see through your eyes.

....Michael

**beseder** · 02-01-2003, 10:57 PM

Im not authorized to say much if anything at all

Shalom to you all

there have been a few abominations standing over the temple mount through out the past centuries, The first was a pagan temple to a roman gd after the destruction in 70ce. and built on top of jerusalem was a city dedicated to the conqueror.
It would seem more likely that this one is the greatest abomination of them all.

Al-Aqsa is nothing, an abomination, yes, probably. The people that call on allah in there and around the world? no less confused than many messianics, christians, jews, hindus, moslems, and etc.

Al Aqsa will fall, the religious israelis (messianic, christian, "jewish") are all awaiting it, and have been expecting its fall for a long time now. They know that the foundations are weak, there are holes and tunnels that weaken the foundation- and so expected to fall.

many moslems deny that the tunnels and holes are true, the few that accept it say that it will be a miracle of allah that it stands.
they say that al-aqsa IS the last temple for that temple mount. I agree that it is the last physical one- however i dont believe that it will stand.

Once that comes down, I believe that the eastern wall will fall down with it. Breaking the eastern gate open.
Which will signal the arrival.

**Thummim** · 02-02-2003, 01:26 PM

Binding the hands of YHWH.

...Hi besedar, good to hear from you. I want to share a little of my faith in these things with you. When we look for an abomination that leads to the desolation of the land of Israel, we need to see it in the mitzvot. There is something simular as now exists upon the temple mount, shadowed in the book of Joshua. Joshua's 24th chapter potrays an event that could tie the hands of YHWH. Joshua makes a covenant with his people in verse 25 of this chapter of text.

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19 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye cannot serve YHWH: for he is an holy God; he is a jealous God; he will not forgive your transgressions nor your sins.

20 If ye forsake YHWH, and serve strange gods, then he will turn and do you hurt, and consume you, {after that he hath done you good *as per Cyrus?*}.

21 And the people said unto Joshua, Nay; but we will serve YHWH.

--> Try to understand what this covenant is. Its locked to a Name. The people, against the advice of Joshua have said that they will serve only YHWH. {not "Jesus", or allah, or any other GD, by any other name}

22 And Joshua said unto the people, Ye are witnesses against yourselves that ye have chosen you YHWH, to serve him. And they said, We are witnesses. {the eyes, Zech. 3: 9}

23 Now therefore put away, said he, the strange gods which are among you, and incline your heart unto YHWH Elohenu of Israel.

24 And the people said unto Joshua, YHWH our God will we serve, and his voice will we obey.

25 So Joshua made a covenant with the people that day, and set them a statute and an ordinance in Shechem. {Shechem is where the people violated a covenant of circumcision, *see Gen. chap. 24 *}

26 And Joshua wrote these words in the book of the law of God, and took a great stone, and set it up there [B]under an oak, {in hebrew it's "allah"} that was by the sanctuary of YHWH.

27 And Joshua said unto all the people, Behold, this stone shall be a witness unto us; for it hath heard all the words of YHWH which he spake unto us: it {the stone} shall be therefore a witness unto you, lest ye deny your God. {or forget his Name?}

28 So Joshua let the people depart, every man unto his inheritance.

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What might be the situation in the heavens as upon the earth
.
...Here we have a covenant that if broken would lead to desolation of the land. It would follow the {Good} and still leave an innocent people desolate. Could this transgression be unintentional? We only need to tie the hands of YHWH to allow the desolation of the land of Israel. Without YHWH for their deliverer, the JEWish people would not have a chance. But they would only need one who could make a case for the peoples righteousness, through his own knowledge. He cannot cover a forgotten Name exactly, but his people still worship Hashem. He could as well wrap all his people up in this sacred Name. He could teach it to all the world. He also would have several other paths to the people's righteousness open to him. Unfortunately, "Jesus" who is now worshiped as a god, and through the words of the new testement that is linked to him, would not be a help at all. So he would have to prove the NT is a false document. He would have to undermine all its pillars. His chief problem here is that eternal life is a strong persuasion to except lies. Liars {though they really see the truth} will morter their faiths with even more lies to keep their reward. This morter is often called spiritual insight. But this real problem with the new testement {fulfilled offerings as the keys to the gates of heaven} will not open heavens gates. Only the Name of YHWH does this. {a key that is in all JEWish pockets} But a forgotten Name, even if still worshipped, will not open the gates either. {Note, islam also cannot open the gates. There is no other Name that they hate as much as they hate the Name of YHWH {YaHudaH}. These forces war in the heavens against each other over who owns the gates. But they really belong to those who own the keys. After all, its their own Name.

...If the JEWish people could just learn their own Name again and its link to the Name of their GD, they would turn the key in its lock. Until then, the righteousness shown of this peoples will have to do in witholding from them, the wrath of their GD. While the JEWish people have their righteousness restored, the gates await the return of GD's Name into the knowledge of the world.

27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. Nu. 6: 27, You could understand how things would work for the JEWish people in this world, if the Name of YHWH was forgotten.

....Michael

**israelthebride** · 02-02-2003, 01:33 PM

"In the NAME of YH'SHWH"

BESEDER,

Your post is wonderful and you are correct.

Both will fall. The abomination on the temple mount and the wall that keeps the Tribes separated.

The "foot" (the last generation - the 144,000 generation) of YH'SHWH's BODY will rest on the mount.

"BLESSED is the ONE WHO comes in the NAME of YH'SHWH."

Let me get YH'SHWH's verses together and I will post how your PROPHECY will work.

BLESS YOU, BESEDER.
YOU come in the NAME of YH'SHWH.

LOVE, RICOEL

**Spying** · 02-03-2003, 08:37 AM

Israel And Judah!

Hi Everyone,

You all know me fairly well by now. You know that I don't get too excited by physical happenings or events. The physical is a shadow or image of the spiritual so the physical does have value as a witness to the spiritual, and because it is a witness, we can learn from the physical.

Take the Mark of the Beast for instance. Most Christians speculate concerning this mark and their thoughts are for the most part solely concentrated on the physical. They think of social security numbers and computer chips implanted in our physical skin, etc. They are actually worried about not being able to buy or sell physical objects.

I am not the least bit worried about not being able to buy something physical. I rather worry about not being about to buy gold and salve and clothing from Messiah:

Rev 3:18
18 I counsel thee to buy of me gold tried in the fire, that thou mayest be rich; and white raiment, that thou mayest be clothed, and that the shame of thy nakedness do not appear; and anoint thine eyes with eyesalve, that thou mayest see. (KJV)

When was the last time you physically bought anything from Messiah? In the same manner, Christians constantly speculate concerning the two witnesses finally appearing in physical Jerusalem where they will meet with death:

Rev 11:8
8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom and Egypt, where also our ADONAI was crucified. (KJV)

Christians vainly imagine that that the great city is physical Jerusalem. They all think of two men lying dead in a physical street. They do not know that the great city has become and will become the world through the preaching of the Gospel. Understand that these things are known and understood through spiritual insight.

So, physical Jerusalem does not ordinarily hold anymore interest for me than any other physical city.

Now, are there things that I can learn from what happens with physical Jerusalem? Yes, and I will tell you why! Messiah can communicate to us through what happens in the physical if we have the eyes to see it. So, an Eastern Wall falling down revealing an Eastern Gate would be of interest to me, but you have to remember that I am looking for a spiritual wall and a spiritual gate and seeking to apply what has happened in the physical to the spiritual.

Along the same lines, I look at the number seven as significant. I look at the space program as being significant. Right now, I am wondering if joint space ventures between Israel and the U.S are destined for success. I only say this because of what it may or may not indicate for the spiritual union of Israel and Judah and our resultant Eternal Life. That is how my mind works, rightly or wrongly.

Sincerely, Spying

**Thummim** · 02-03-2003, 11:49 AM

Whats UP, {spiritual} with us DOWN here?

...Hello Spying and good morning. {afternoon for you}. The way I see it, a spiritual Jerusalem must accommodate the dimensions of the mind of him {or her} who creates it. Ditto with all of the worlds boundries. In the spiritual realm, boundries overlap. It happens first in the minds spiritual eye. A moslem understands Jerusalem to be within his own spirits borders. Us JEWs have different spiritual boundries for Jerusalem. Within our minds eye, we see the boundry markers a little bit closer to what favors us. The boundry is first drawn up within. Even when Joshua drew up the borders of Israel, he first marked out the boundries with a spiritual pen. Can this diversity of spiritual opinion really reflect the will of YHWH, or has he chosen whose opinion will reflect his own choices, in a servant that he himself has named? Unless heaven becomes as it is here upon the earth, and without the proper arbiters, maybe we should consult something more solid than the spiritual opinion of {whose opinion?} it is. Those spirits who reside here upon the earth are really too heavily invested in the things that exist right here upon the earth, to mark out boundries beyond earthly influence. Why are you so sure that the spiritual is really any better at marking out boundries, that those whom YHWH chooses to do so in the realm of the solid? I read from christian sources that even the heavens war upon themselves. If we have to wait for YHWH to amend the heavens, why not wait for him to amend the earth? And by the way, who gets the solid version of Jerusalem. I am very interested in your opinion on this matter.

....Michael

**Spying** · 03-20-2003, 08:45 AM

Look And Learn!

Hi Thummim,

All things physical belong to Abraham and his SEED, ADONAI MESSIAH YAHUSHUA. Of course, there are a host of other people who do participate in the Cosmos which is inherited by the both of them. Master Paul stated it in this manner:

Rom 4:13
13 For the promise, that he should be the heir of the world, was not to Abraham, or to his seed, through the law, but through the righteousness of faith. (KJV)

Cosmos is the Greek word used for world in the above statement of Paul:

2889 kosmos (kos'-mos);

probably from the base of 2865; orderly arrangement, i.e. decoration; by implication, the world (in a wide or narrow sense, including its inhabitants, literally or figuratively [morally]):

KJV-- adorning, world.

Paul knows that the promised physical land is really a symbol for the whole world. Now, Messiah has already entered into his inheritance. All authority in heaven and earth belongs to him. So, it is rather silly for you or for any other American Jew to fight and die to possess physical Jerusalem when you or they can never really own it. The world already belongs to Messiah, and Messiah is not about to give to you or to any other any permanent possession in HIS land unless you change your ways.

It is the obligation of the SEED to do whatever is necessary in order that Abraham can also receive his inheritance:

Gen 18:19
19 For I know him, that he will command his children and his household after him, and they shall keep the way of YAHWEH, to do justice and judgment; that YAHWEH may bring upon Abraham that which he hath spoken of him. (KJV)

This Messiah did do, and this Messiah is now doing through those who are a part of HIM. This, the Jews have not done, and neither are they now so doing:

John 8:39
39 They answered and said unto him, Abraham is our father. Yahushua saith unto them, If ye were Abraham's children, ye would do the works of Abraham. (KJV)

Abraham lived at peace with the inhabitants of the promised land, and the only thing that he sought to own in that land was his burial plot. Look and learn!

Sincerely, Spying

**Thummim** · 03-20-2003, 04:12 PM

If it hasn't been fixed, it is still broken. Of course you could just say, all's well

...Spying, you haven't proven {Jesus} to be the messiah. He brings no peace. He doesn't increase his government upon Davids throne. {an earthly throne} He is no king upon David's throne at all. The writers of his book don't even use the Name of YHWH, Davids Eloheem, so he as well does not santify the name of YHWH. He makes no intercession for the JEWish people, neither does he remove the rebuke of this people, at all. He fulfills no offering that can remove presumptuous sin. He is father to no one. {his name is not "everlasting father" nor does he see his seed} He is a man of very large crowds, instead of a rejected and diseased servant. He makes none of {my people} righteous by his knowledge. Which kings of this earth, shut their mouths before him? Which kings did he personally know? The blessing of the JEWish people which the messiah is supposed to bring, is nowhere to be found. He doesn't deliver Jerusalem from their enemies. He doesn't purify the sons of Levi, nor does he make their offerings exceptable to YHWH. He bends many bruised reeds as he walks the streets. He brings no righteous "sun" with him. Neither is his John, Elijah, nor has the day of YHWH {the LORD} come. {Elijah comes just befors the day of YHWH, and not 2000 years before. Isn't the iniquity of the land of Israel to be removed in a single day, even in the messiah's own time. And where is the Shekinah? Where are the dark clouds that accompany him? Does he make the law honorable? Or does he convince many that it is "fulfilled"?

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24 Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. Dan. 9: 24

...Is the transgression of Danial's people, finished? Is there now an end to the sins of the JEWish people? If so, why do you constantly suggest that the JEWs are {filthy} and still transgressors? Has reconciliation been made for the iniquity of the JEWish people? Has everlasting righteousness come to us JEWs? It is after all of these things occours, that the most holy is anointed. So In all these promises, {Jesus} fails. He fails the purpose of a messiah. But there is a deciever who convinces many. He convinces the multitudes that a dry lake is full of water. Well, if it satisfies your thirst! But pardon the desire of us thirsty JEWs, who desire this lake of promises to be filled with real water.

....Michael

**Thummim** · 03-20-2003, 04:18 PM

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Announcement

Julius Caesar!

Julius Caesar!

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