I Believe YH'SHWH is GOD

[israelthebride]

MT 4:1 Then was YH’SHWH led up of the spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.

JAS 1:13 Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of GOD: for GOD cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth HE any man:
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Question:

Was YH’SHWH on earth as GOD being human or

Was YH’SHWH on earth as a human submitting for GOD to BE/EXIST/MOVE through HIM?
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Which of the two would make the proper SACRIFICE for our lives?

LOVE, RICOEL

[Spying]

Heresy!

Hi RICOEL,

Of the two choices, I concur with the latter. Christianity teaches that Messiah was both true G-d and true man. Christianity also teaches that Messiah always had preexistence as the Son of ELOHIM. Both teachings concur with your first option.

Your second option is heresy according to Christianity. I believe in the second option so I am a heretic.

Have a good Sabbath!

Sincerely, Spying

[israelthebride]

SPYING,

YOU are amazing.

It is true YH'SHWH is GOD from the BEGINNING.
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But,

The SACRIFICE had to be a TRUE HUMAN.

If YH'SHWH had come as GOD to be human, the SACRIFICE would not be any good.

YH'SHWH, even though HE is GOD, had to come as a human and learn who HE was. As WE should. Otherwise, HE would not have been a true human.
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Let me put it this way:

How many times have you heard the story of how you are a SON of GOD? Do you still have doubts of, you, being a SON of GOD?

Every miracle YH'SHWH did while on earth was as a human submitting to HOLY SPIRIT. As WE should. Otherwise, HE would not have said that WE are going to do greater things.

Also, if HE had done the miracles while being GOD, HIS overcoming the ways of the world would mean nothing.
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This is what I believe:

YH'SHWH is GOD.

HE denied HIS GODLINESS/HIS THRONE to be human and to submit to HOLY SPIRIT. As WE should deny ourselves and submit to HOLY SPIRIT.

Every WORD that YH'SHWH said, in SUBMISSION, was HOLY SPIRIT SPEAKING. As WE should allow HOLY SPIRIT to SPEAK through US.

YH'SHWH, GOD, had FAITH in HIMSELF that HE would learn who HE was while on earth. As WE should learn who WE are and believe/have FAITH on the ONE that HE sent.

YH'SHWH put all of HIS CREATION on the line to SAVE the ONES HE LOVES.

US. HIS PEOPLE. HIS BODY. HIS BRIDE.

HIS ISRAEL.

HIS SACRIFICE is TRUE.

HIS SALVATION is FINISHED.

WE are HIS!!!!!!!

LOVE, RICOEL

[Matthew23]

Re: Heresy!

Originally posted by Spying
Hi RICOEL,

Of the two choices, I concur with the latter. Christianity teaches that Messiah was both true G-d and true man. Christianity also teaches that Messiah always had preexistence as the Son of ELOHIM. Both teachings concur with your first option.

Your second option is heresy according to Christianity. I believe in the second option so I am a heretic.

Hello Spying.

Before we brand you a heretic, explain the meaning of the following:

John 1:1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.... 14 The Word became flesh and made his dwelling among us...

Hebrews 1:2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe.

You sound like you don't believe that He existed before his days on earth. If that's the case, then what do the above scriptures mean to you.

[Spying]

Falling To The Ground!

Hi Matthew23,

I see that you are learning how to use the vB codes. I like that. Thank you for your expressed concern for me. I am glad to hear from you again!

This thread could open up a can of worms! I am sure that you know that this very issue occupied the false church fathers for generations. Have you ever wondered why and how this issue could have occupied so much of their time and effort and so little of ours?

I submit to you that the seeds of this great debate were established in the teachings of the Apostolic Assembly. They knew the true teaching. If the Apostles really taught the concept that Messiah was "true God and true man" as Messiah performed his ministry on this earth, then how did an alternate opinion begin to develop? The reality is that the Apostles did not teach "true God and true man". What they did teach was not known by either side of this great debate within historical Christianity; otherwise, how could anyone even begin to remotely arise in opposition to their teaching (1 Corinthians 4:20). Even so, this is what Paul said would occur after his departure:

Acts 20:29-31
29 For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.
30 Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.
31 Therefore watch, and remember, that by the space of three years I ceased not to warn every one night and day with tears. (KJV)

Paul says that the flock would not be spared; yet, everyone thinks that the flock endured down the generations to our time. If the flock did endure, then we all should convert to Catholicism. The teaching of "true ELOHIM and true man" is a perverse teaching! So also is the Trinity! So also is the teaching that the Son of Man had an eternal preexistence as the Son of ELOHIM! What does the creed say? “Begotten of His Father before all worlds." This also is a perverse teaching.

Consider this saying of Messiah:

John 12:23-24
23 And Yahushua answered them, saying, The hour is come, that the Son of man should be glorified.
24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit. (KJV)

If this be true of wheat, and if this be true of men, then should not this also be true of YAHWEH ELOHIM? Before you answer, consider this saying of Messiah:

John 5:19-20
19 Then answered Yahushua and said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.
20 For the Father loveth the Son, and sheweth him all things that himself doeth: and he will shew him greater works than these, that ye may marvel. (KJV)

Surely, the Cross was for Messiah a falling to the ground and dying. The Cross was indeed a great work. Now, my question for all Arians and all Trinitarians is simply this: In what manner did Messiah see the Father fall to the ground and die?

Sincerely, Spying

P.S. This does impact John 1:1 and Hebrews 1:2. What I am working to do with you is get at the reasoning behind those verses!

[Matthew23]

go on...

[Spying]

The Giving Of Glory!

Hi Matthew23,

Unhappy is great. If I were you, I would be unhappy also to not get a direct answer from me. Even so, unhappy is better than confused. If you were confused, then it would be difficult for me to "go on".

Christianity, including yourself, has and does still view YAHWEH ELOHIM and Messiah Yahushua from a human point of view. When we think of them in human terms, this is a critical mistake. If YAHWEH is not a man that HE should repent (1 Samuel 15:29), and if in the Kingdom of Heaven, the Angels do not marry, how is it that we are so foolish to think of YAHWEH begetting a son in human terms. If YAHWEH is not a man, then how in all the world can YAHWEH have a human son? Let's ignore that YAHWEH is not a man. Did YAHWEH then have sex with another deity in order to beget Messiah before the creation of all worlds? That is a silly question, right? Do you see how we so easily get caught up in applying human roles and reasoning to YAHWEH ELOHIM?

YAHWEH ELOHIM is one. YAHWEH is equal to HIMSELF and HIMSELF alone. So, if YAHWEH begets anyone, YAHWEH must beget HIMSELF. Do not imagine any offspring of YAHWEH that is anything other than YAHWEH HIMSELF.

YAHWEH emptied HIS Spirit into mankind through Adam and Eve. Through Adam and Eve, the spirit (the seed, the sperm) of YAHWEH ELOHIM (please remember that ELOHIM is a spirit) was planted or sown in the ground. Mankind is ground. We are dust. This planting is the division of YAHWEH ELOHIM. The division of our physical cells typify what was happening to YAHWEH ELOHIM when ELOHIM created man in their image and planted their seed (the spirit) within us. One cell becomes two, two become four, and so on. Thus, this planting is a death, but it is not a death in a human sense. Modify your thinking. Start looking for patterns in the physical to understand the spiritual. This is why Messiah taught in parables. This taught and forced his disciples to think symbolically. YAHWEH gives of HIMSELF in faith, hope, and love. What YAHWEH receives in return is nothing other than YAHWEH. So, in a spiritual sense, YAHWEH did fall to the ground and die, and this is the pattern that Messiah did observe. We awake each physical day, we go to work, we create, we make plans for the next day. We go to sleep. How do we know that there will be a next day? Is it not our experience? YAHWEH has experience (John 12:28)!

Before YAHWEH fell to the ground and died, YAHWEH had a glory (John 17:5). The glory of YAHWEH is mankind (1 Corinthians 11:7, Isaiah 42:8, Isaiah 43:5-9, Isaiah 46:13, Proverbs 17:6, do you see a pattern here?). Who is it that regathers this glory? Do you see what Messiah is asking for when he requests glorification? What does this teach us about Messiah himself? Remember, "my glory will I not give to another", and we can be happy about that!

Sincerely, Spying

P.S. This Sabbath, my Assembly is making a presentation concerning the origins of Christmas. The public is invited. It starts at 10:30 AM. The location is the Baymont Inn at Dorsett and I-270. I would like to meet you! Don't worry, we will get you out in time to watch the MO-IL Basketball Game!

[Matthew23]

Re: The Giving Of Glory!

Originally posted by Spying
Christianity, including yourself, has and does still view YAHWEH ELOHIM and Messiah Yahushua from a human point of view. When we think of them in human terms, this is a critical mistake.

We don't believe that YHWH is a man. Jesus tells us that He is spirit: John 4:24 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

YAHWEH ELOHIM is one. YAHWEH is equal to HIMSELF and HIMSELF alone. So, if YAHWEH begets anyone, YAHWEH must beget HIMSELF. Do not imagine any offspring of YAHWEH that is anything other than YAHWEH HIMSELF.

Agreed.

YAHWEH emptied HIS Spirit into mankind through Adam and Eve. Through Adam and Eve, the spirit (the seed, the sperm) of YAHWEH ELOHIM (please remember that ELOHIM is a spirit) was planted or sown in the ground. Mankind is ground. We are dust. This planting is the division of YAHWEH ELOHIM. The division of our physical cells typify what was happening to YAHWEH ELOHIM when ELOHIM created man in their image and planted their seed (the spirit) within us. One cell becomes two, two become four, and so on. Thus, this planting is a death, but it is not a death in a human sense. Modify your thinking. Start looking for patterns in the physical to understand the spiritual. This is why Messiah taught in parables. This taught and forced his disciples to think symbolically. YAHWEH gives of HIMSELF in faith, hope, and love. What YAHWEH receives in return is nothing other than YAHWEH. So, in a spiritual sense, YAHWEH did fall to the ground and die, and this is the pattern that Messiah did observe. We awake each physical day, we go to work, we create, we make plans for the next day. We go to sleep. How do we know that there will be a next day? Is it not our experience? YAHWEH has experience (John 12:28)!

Before YAHWEH fell to the ground and died, YAHWEH had a glory (John 17:5). The glory of YAHWEH is mankind (1 Corinthians 11:7, Isaiah 42:8, Isaiah 43:5-9, Isaiah 46:13, Proverbs 17:6, do you see a pattern here?). Who is it that regathers this glory? Do you see what Messiah is asking for when he requests glorification? What does this teach us about Messiah himself? Remember, "my glory will I not give to another", and we can be happy about that!

I'm with you. Go on.

P.S. This Sabbath, my Assembly is making a presentation concerning the origins of Christmas. The public is invited. It starts at 10:30 AM. The location is the Baymont Inn at Dorsett and I-270. I would like to meet you! Don't worry, we will get you out in time to watch the MO-IL Basketball Game!

I appreciate the invitation, Spying, but I have prior engagements . I would like to meet you sometime though. Keep me informed on your assemblies; I might stop in some time. I'm not scared , I went to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints a couple of weeks ago! Did you know that Jesus is my older brother?

[Spying]

Our Original Nature!

Hi Matthew23,

I know that you are not afraid because you have the courage to post your thoughts on a public forum, and you also have the desire to defend your faith. Both, I find commendable. Some people think that they have anonymity on the internet because we use pseudonyms. Pseudonyms do give us a certain amount of comfort. Even so, I remember the first time I was ready to make a post on the internet on the CARM Forum that my hand was shaking all the way to the submit button. Sometimes in certain situations, that feeling comes over me again as I write today. What we engage in here on this forum is not easy!

We don't believe that YHWH is a man. Jesus tells us that He is spirit: John 4:24 "God is spirit, and his worshipers must worship in spirit and in truth."

I know that Christianity does not believe that YAHWEH is a man, and that is a real shame. It is my belief that Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM, and you and I both know that Yahushua is not a spirit; rather, Yahushua is a man:

Luke 24:39
39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have. (KJV)

According to your own belief and statement, you have unknowing just excluded Messiah Yahushua from the circle of ELOHIM. I could leave off here and observe how you explain yourself out of this dilemma, but I would rather use the opportunity to show you what I meant by saying that Christianity views YAHWEH ELOHIM from a human point of view.

Messiah does indeed say that ELOHIM is spirit. However, don't then turn around and make the mistake of thinking that this state of being is the final or permanent nature of ELOHIM. Christianity clearly places ELOHIM in a circle apart from man, and then Christianity uses Messiah to appease ELOHIM. According to Christianity, man cannot enter the circle of ELOHIM. Christianity believes that ELOHIM is ELOHIM and that man is man. Man can approach ELOHIM, but man cannot become ELOHIM. This is all also perverse thinking. (I know, I am opening myself up right here to being slanderously accused as being the anti-Messiah or, at the very least, as being of the anti-Messiah, 2 Thessalonians 2:3-5.) So, Christianity believes that YAHWEH is spirit, all the while denying the clear later saying of Messiah. Thus, Christianity places a distinct division between ELOHIM and man, and then Christianity turns around and attempts to explain ELOHIM by ascribing human characteristics to YAHWEH ELOHIM. Paul exhorts us not to know Messiah from a human perspective:

2 Cor 5:16-17
16 Wherefore henceforth know we no man after the flesh: yea, though we have known Messiah after the flesh, yet now henceforth know we him no more.
17 Therefore if any man be in Messiah, he is a new creature: old things are passed away; behold, all things are become new. (KJV)

Christianity looks at a man, and they see a man. I look at a man, and through Messiah, I see YAHWEH in the flesh. There is a huge difference in these two perspectives!

The glorification of Messiah Yahushua proves that man can become ELOHIM. Through the glorification of Messiah, ELOHIM restored HIMSELF to HIS original state. This state is made known to us through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua. This state is one in which spirit dwells in flesh on a permanent basis. This truth can also be stated in this manner. It is the original nature of ELOHIM that spirit be housed in physicality, that is, it is the original state of ELOHIM that ELOHIM be clothed with the physical universe. Through Messiah Yahushua, this original nature is restored!

Christianity does not know these things. Christianity is not even remotely aware of these things so why do you waste your time following Christianity?

Sincerely, Spying

[Matthew23]

waisting time...

Maybe I'm waisting time by reading and posting messages here? Maybe not .

Spying said:

According to your own belief and statement, you have unknowing just excluded Messiah Yahushua from the circle of ELOHIM. I could leave off here and observe how you explain yourself out of this dilemma

Jesus said it, not me.

Spying said:

Christianity does not know these things. Christianity is not even remotely aware of these things so why do you waste your time following Christianity?

C'mon, Spying! You're telling me that in your lifetime you have figured out the nature of God, while for two thousand years we've all been in the dark?
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Question: When you go to heaven (if that's what you believe in), who do you see? Will you see Jesus sitting at the right hand of the Father?

[israelthebride]

ONE

REV 3:20 Behold, I stand at the door, and knock: if any man hear MY VOICE, and open the door, I will come in to him, and will sup with him, and he with ME.
REV 3:21 To him that overcometh will I grant to sit with ME in MY THRONE, even as I also overcame, and am set down with MY ABBA in HIS THRONE.
REV 3:22 He that hath an ear, let him hear what SPIRIT saith unto the churches (the "called out" ONEs).

If YH'SHWH, our GOD, is the HEAD of HIS BODY that is indwelled by HIS SPIRIT, as HIS WORD/LAW (Genesis to Revelation) says;

HIS THRONE (there is only ONE THRONE) will be filled by ONE

FATHER GOD YH'SHWH + HIS SPIRIT + US, HIS BODY = ONE

LOVE, RICOEL

[Spying]

Knowledge!

Hi Matthew23,

I am not the only one who knows anything about the nature of Messiah Yahushua. Look above to what RICOEL has written. RICOEL knows. I say that I know, I say that RICOEL knows, but only in this context:

1 Cor 8:2
2 And if any man think that he knoweth any thing, he knoweth nothing yet as he ought to know. (KJV)

So, I am rather reluctant to step forward and say that I know anything. I am more inclined to be like Sergeant Schultz, "I see nothing, I know nothing!" Even so, knowledge is a gift supplied by Messiah Yahushua. This gift is given and apprehended by HIS Spirit for HIS servants and through HIS servants. So, we really have no knowledge that is our own. Whatever we have been given is given to us in order that we might share with others what has been generously given to us for the good of the whole, for the good of our Oneness.

I am here at this forum telling others what I have learned. Everything I say may be wrong. So, I am not responsible for your truth, but I do take the responsibility of teaching very seriously as one who does bear some responsibility for you in that we are all commanded to love one another. So, if I know anything at all, I must work to communicate that knowledge to you; otherwise, I only love in word and not in deed.

Right now, it is your responsibility to correct me should I be teaching wrongly, that is, if you love me.

Sincerely, Spying

[Spying]

The Seat Of Mercy?

Hi Matthew23,

In answer to your question, I make mention of these three scriptures for your consideration:

Eph 1:9-10
9 Having made known unto us the mystery of his will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself:
10 That in the dispensation of the fulness of times he might gather together in one all things in Messiah, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in him: (KJV)

Rom 10:6-8
6 But the righteousness which is of faith speaketh on this wise, Say not in thine heart, Who shall ascend into heaven? (that is, to bring Messiah down from above)
7 Or, Who shall descend into the deep? (that is, to bring up Messiah again from the dead.)
8 But what saith it? The word is nigh thee, even in thy mouth, and in thy heart: that is, the word of faith, which we preach; (KJV)

Heb 10:19-25
19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Yahushua,
20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;
21 And having an high priest over the house of ELOHIM;
22 Let us draw near with a true heart in full assurance of faith, having our hearts sprinkled from an evil conscience, and our bodies washed with pure water.
23 Let us hold fast the profession of our faith without wavering; (for he is faithful that promised)
24 And let us consider one another to provoke unto love and to good works:
25 Not forsaking the assembling of ourselves together, as the manner of some is; but exhorting one another: and so much the more, as ye see the day approaching. (KJV)

Having entered the holiest, is there anyone save for Messiah Yahushua seated in the holiest?!

Sincerely, Spying

[israelthebride]

WE are ONE

I LOVE YOU, SPYING

RICOEL

[Matthew23]

Spying,

I'm not an expert on the Scriptures, so I can't teach someone everything they need to know. I'm still trying to learn for myself and my family. That's part of the reason why I'm here. I know what I've been taught, and until someone can show me that I'm going the wrong direction, I'll keep on keepin' on.

I would like to come to one of your weekly church meetings (I assume that they are usually held on Saturdays). Do you have a set time and place every week?