"Jesus" Blood and Animal Sacrifice

[Stranger]

Shabbat shalom ImAHebrew,

In a previous post I promised to share with you my views on animal sacrifice as a sin offering to Yahweh. I'll do that tomorrow. Shabbat just started over here too, and I sure wish this were the blessed Shabbat of his coming!

The subject that I promised can be very long and can take a lot of time explaining. In this post I will limit myself to a brief introduction to this subject so you'll know my mind setting at the moment. As I said before on several occasions, I am not dogmatic about it. Although, I want to be as objective as I can be.

Nobody among the Christians question the fact that animal sacrifice for sin atonement will be the order of the day in the world to come. This subject is extensively dealt with in the Tanakh. The "New Testament" is totally mute about it. The Christian theologians who venture to comment on this subject have a way of explaining it away, or they totally ignore the subject, and so do practically all the Christians.

Malachi 3:3-4 * He will sit as a refiner and purifier of silver; he will purify the Levites and refine them like gold and silver. Then Yahweh will have men who will bring offerings in righteousness,
4 and the offerings of Judah and Jerusalem will be acceptable to Yahweh, as in days gone by, as in former years.

Isaiah 56:7 * these I will bring to my holy mountain and give them joy in my house of prayer. Their burnt offerings and sacrifices will be accepted on my altar; for my house will be called a house of prayer for all nations."

Ezekiel 40:39 * And in the porch of the gate [were] two tables on this side, and two tables on that side, to slay thereon the burnt offering and the sin offering and the trespass offering.

As you all can see, not a clue about a human sacrifice making all the animal sacrifices invalid or unnecessary. The mere mention that sin and trespass offerings will be restored in the world to come is a clear indication that "Jesus" blood or his sacrifice won't buy you a cup of coffee in the new world. We will all be judged by a merciful Elohim and will move on to take possession of the inheritance according to our deeds. There will be those who will be called great, and those who will be called small in the kingdom, just like Yahushua said.

Ecclesiastes 12:13-14 * Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Fear Elohim and keep his commandments, for this is the whole [duty] of man.
14 For Elohim will bring every deed into judgment, including every hidden thing, whether it is good or evil.

Saying all this, I will post a brief message tomorrow telling you my impression about the use and reason for animal sacrifice. I also have to work for a living, so I understand your delay in replying.

[Stranger]

Sacrifices and Offerings... what were they?

Shalom aleichem…

Since the days of Cain and Abel the idea of a sacrifice to please Yahweh was well established. I’m still studying this subject so I can’t be dogmatic about it. I was disappointed to learn anything from an orthodox viewpoint because it leaves a lot of questions unanswered. I’m afraid that there is some manipulation of the Scriptures here, too. I read the Scriptures (the Tanakh) several times over. I wanted to stamp in my memory the whole context of it, if at all possible. So now when I hear or read anything about sacrifices my mind recalls a lot of stuff that I read about it. The clearest impression that I got from all my recollections on this subject is that a clean EDIBLE animal was killed. The blood is the SYMBOL of the life of the animal. It was sprinkled around the altar. It was never to be eaten. The altar was not really a furnace in which the animal was incinerated and done with until it was reduced to ashes. Not all of the sacrifices were like that. In fact, the GREAT MAJORITY of sacrifices were something that I would describe as an ongoing bar-b-q that the person or persons doing the offering would partake of it.

So in a few words, here is the thing. You inadvertently infringe Yahweh’s Law. You pick the best clean animal you got. You went over his House, the Temple. The priest there would process the animal to be offered on the altar (to be barbecued) for your consumption. I see this as the true Yahweh’s Table. You, a commoner, and your family have a meal before Yahweh. That is how the tithe was offered. That was the purpose of giving the tithe, so Yahweh would have you at his table. You consumed your own tithe right then and there. You shared with the Levites, of course, but it was your meal! I cannot see any other reason for the sacrifice. The blood was not to be consumed by anyone. It was freed! The blood represents the life of the animal or person and therefore it is sacred. Nobody messes with it. Yahweh hates the shedding of innocent (human) blood, too.

BTW, the blood by itself has no redeeming qualities whatsoever! I say this regardless of what the NT wants to pull on you. It has no grounds in the Tanakh. When you came to Yahweh’s Table at the Temple you were invited. Yahweh sent the invitation. At the table is where a lot of businesses are settled. “Come let’s reason together,” says Yahweh. While eating at his table you are enjoying a close communion with him. All your sins are forgiven. “How can 2 walk (eat) together unless they agree?”

Deuteronomy 12:5-7 * But you are to seek the place Yahweh your Elohim will choose from among all your tribes to put his Name there for his dwelling. To that place you must go;
6 there bring your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, what you have vowed to give and your freewill offerings, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks.
7 There, in the presence of Yahweh your Elohim, you and your families shall eat and shall rejoice in everything you have put your hand to, because Yahweh your Elohim has blessed you.

Deuteronomy 14:22-23 * Be sure to set aside a tenth of all that your fields produce each year.
23 Eat the tithe of your grain, new wine and oil, and the firstborn of your herds and flocks in the presence of Yahweh your Elohim at the place he will choose as a dwelling for his Name, so that you may learn to revere Yahweh your Elohim always.

I can add to the above mitzvot a whole bunch, dozens of real life examples in the Tanakh. They all had that effect. All the tithes presented before Yahweh were for IMMEDIATE consumption! The “store house” idea is obviously an added feature not ordered by Yahweh. I’m concerned about it because it implies uncertainty about the future.

You can rest assured that Yahweh doesn’t require human blood for expiation. That is a Goyot (Heathenistic) dogma. Just like the cannibalistic ritual of “The Lord’s Supper” – Only a Goy/Heathen minded person would go for it. On a second thought I better stop here and hear from you or anyone else willing to make a comment.

[Edited by Stranger on 01-13-2001 at 01:07 PM]

[simpleman]

Stranger,

Long time no speak.

Do you believe that Messiah said that if you did not eat his flesh and drink his blood that you would have no part in him? That seems consistent with what you wrote about sacrifices does it not? You can not look at this as canabalism. That is the mistake that some of his followers made when they left saying "this is a hard saying, who can hear it?" Yahweh's ways are not our ways.

Blessings,
Simpleman

[Stranger]

Hi Simpleman,

I must apologize if I was a bit far out with you or anyone else at the Eliyah forum. I was and still am in the middle of a "spiritual" transition if you will. I was shocked about what I was led to believe as a Christian. Now I breath more freely.

Your comments about a possible parallel between animal sacrifice and a human/Almighty sacrificed messiah for the same principle sound logical. However, Yahweh never ever implied any human meat and blood consumption anywhere or at anytime for whatsoever reason, spiritual or physical. In fact to me it is a clear case of the Isaac quasi sacrifice, but in reverse. For Christianity to function it needs to have the sacrifice of lambs and other animals as prescribed by Yahweh’s Law substituted for the sacrifice a human being. Yahweh forbade the consumption of animal blood. How much more human blood! So there is no connection here whatsoever to feasting before Yahweh through human blood drinking. Only the Heathen do that before their deities and a lot of other crazy things, too. Christianity is deeply rooted in Heathenism so it is not strange that the writers and editors of the NT who were mostly of Heathen origin came up with the Heathen acceptable idea of human sacrifice. Paul was brought up in the Heathen City of Tarsus (in today’s Turkey) where he was a proud citizen. So this stuff goes well with his background. He was an "expert" in HaTorah as well as in Heathen theology as he was able to demonstrate that in Athens among the Athenian idol worshippers.

If any human being claiming to be the Almighty through family ties, or anyone assumed to be the Almighty by some of his followers comes along and offers his flesh and blood for human consumption in order to obtain eternal life I would rise an eyebrow, wouldn’t you? The title of “Lamb of God” is of NT vintage. No where in the Tanakh we have such description for any messiah. The expression “lambs to be slaughter" is applicable to the Jews or Israelites in general, not to any messiah in particular.

I don’t believe that your conclusion on the parallel between animal sacrifice and human sacrifice was used by the early church fathers when they were drawing the NT. I believe that they made up a special connection of Yahushua (who most probably existed, but had nothing to do with a lot of things written about him), or “Jesus” (I don’t believe that the name here matters one bit) to a sacrificial lamb that “takes away the sin of the world.” The “gospel” of John says so right at the beginning that Yahushua or “Jesus” is the “Lamb of God” that takes away the sin of the world, but that is an assertion found only in the NT.

John 1:29 (NIV) The next day John saw Jesus coming toward him and said, "Look, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!”

Nobody knows who wrote John. It was written many years after Paul’s letters. Paul’s theology must have biased the John account. Paul is stating that "Christ” (i.e. a Greek second name given to Yahushua) is the Passover lamb that was sacrificed for the Christian believers. It is also written assertively in the NT that it is a perfect sacrifice done once for ever in spite of the fact that animal sacrifice will be the order of the day in the Olam HaBa for exactly the same original reasons. To prove that “Jesus” is the Passover lamb” the Christian NT writers quote real Scripture that “none of his bones were broken” at the crucifixion. No such prophecy is ever given to fit any messiah, but it is only given as an instruction of the treatment to be given to any Passover lamb. Even the bread was not supposed to have any leaven in it. There was no time for doing a gourmet number on the lamb. Any other idea connecting the Passover lamb to a human being or messiah is like fitting a square peg into a round hole.

1 Corinthians 5:7b (NIV) For Christ, our Passover lamb, has been sacrificed.

Hebrews 10:14 (NIV) because by one sacrifice he has made perfect forever those who are being made holy.

John 19:35 (NIV) The man who saw it has given testimony, and his testimony is true. He knows that he tells the truth, and he testifies so that you also may believe.
36 These things happened so that the scripture would be fulfilled: "Not one of his bones will be broken,"

These are some of the key dogmas of the Christian faith that one must believe to be a Christian and "go to Heaven" after death. In reality all of the above won’t buy you a cup of coffee in the Olam HaBa. The Passover lamb does not have nor ever had any power whatsoever to atone for any sin. It was only a sacrifice or slaughter of a lamb to be used as the main course meal in the yearly celebration of the exodus. The Passover lamb has no connection to any “spiritualization” of any sacrifice for the atonement of any sin. Period! No foreigner is supposed to eat of it. That leaves ALL the Heathen out. Any foreigner must be circumcised to partake. The Passover lamb was eaten in a feast of celebration. No thought was ever given to any atonement for any sin while eating of it. The Israelites were instructed to use the occasion to tell their children the story of the exodus, not the atonement of any sin and much less of the world! The blood of the Passover lamb was not to be used as a drink, either.

Exodus 12:46-48 * "It must be eaten inside one house; take none of the meat outside the house. Do not break any of the bones.
47 The whole community of Israel must celebrate it.
48 "An alien living among you who wants to celebrate Yahweh’s Passover must have all the males in his household circumcised; then he may take part like one born in the land. No uncircumcised male may eat of it.

Exodus 12:25-27 * When you enter the land that Yahweh will give you as he promised, observe this ceremony.
26 And when your children ask you, `What does this ceremony mean to you?'
27 then tell them, `It is the Passover sacrifice to Yahweh, who passed over the houses of the Israelites in Egypt and spared our homes when he struck down the Egyptians.'"

The Passover lamb is a special lamb that has to be slaughtered for the Passover celebration. The lamb has to be spotless and unblemished. According to the record “Jesus” doesn’t qualify as a sacrificial lamb for more than one reason.

According to Paul, “Jesus” was mutilated (i.e. circumcised) in his body, and therefore he is disqualified as a Passover lamb. Paul is calling his own relatives and kinsmen, “dogs” given to body mutilation. Actually, Paul’s primary target were HaTorah observant Jews. The NT is subtly antinomian per se. I’m using this reference to show that from a Christian perspective “Jesus” was mutilated in the flesh while a Passover lamb is not supposed to be mutilated, injured, or with any festering sores whatsoever. The Christians say that “Jesus” sacrifice was at the “cross” and not at the Roman whipping post. They say that “Jesus” was whipped to the point of loosing a lot of blood and naturally the sores he got became festering. According to resourceful Christian preachers “Jesus” was literally shred to pieces and disfigured beyond recognition at the crack of the Roman cat-of-nine-tails before a cheering crowd of Jews. They also say that the devil wanted "Jesus" to bleed to death before dying at the “cross” so that no blood could be shed from the “cross” to cover “the sin of the world.”

Obviously, a lamb in “Jesus” condition is no longer qualified to be a sacrificial lamb for any kind of offering, let alone to be used for the celebration of the exodus. BTW, any animal sacrificed to Yahweh has to be put on the fire, not killed and buried! According to Yahweh the animals has to be offered at the altar in his temple by qualified priests and nowhere else by anyone else and much less by the Heathen. So any parallel of “Jesus” and the Passover lamb is barely coincidental at best, but certainly not categorical. It looks like Paul and the rest of the NT writers and editors were rookie “scripture” writers shooting their own foot.

Philippians 3:2 (NIV) Watch out for those dogs, those men who do evil, those mutilators of the flesh.

Leviticus 22:20-22 * Do not bring anything with a defect, because it will not be accepted on your behalf.
21 When anyone brings from the herd or flock a fellowship offering to Yahweh to fulfill a special vow or as a freewill offering, it must be without defect or blemish to be acceptable.
22 Do not offer to Yahweh the blind, the injured or the maimed, or anything with warts or festering or running sores. Do not place any of these on the altar as an offering made to Yahweh by fire.

Leviticus 3:17 * "`This is a lasting ordinance for the generations to come, wherever you live: You must not eat any fat or any blood.'"

Leviticus 17:10-12 * "`Any Israelite or any alien living among them who eats any blood--I will set my face against that person who eats blood and will cut him off from his people.
11 For the life of a creature is in the blood, and I have given it to you to make atonement for yourselves on the altar; it is the blood (i.e. animal blood) that makes atonement for one's life.
12 Therefore I say to the Israelites, "None of you may eat blood, nor may an alien living among you eat blood."

Obviously, whoever were the writers or editors of the NT they didn’t have a solid knowledge of HaTorah. They only knew it from a hearsay perspective. They knew about a Passover lamb, but they picked the wrong animal for the atonement. They fell victims of Murphy’s inexorable law. They would have been much closer to the truth, if that were the case by making Yahushua the GOAT or rather scapegoat “that takes away the sin of the world.” Apparently they also ignored the ban on eating ANY blood, including that of any messiah. Poor Christianity! They are stuck with a no win religion and so many millions upon millions of them were so easily deceived over the centuries! If I may borrow one of the NT expressions I’d say that Satan actually deceives the WHOLE WORLD.

Do you believe that Messiah said that if you did not eat his flesh and drink his blood that you would have no part in him? That seems consistent with what you wrote about sacrifices does it not? You can not look at this as canabalism. That is the mistake that some of his followers made when they left saying "this is a hard saying, who can hear it?" Yahweh's ways are not our ways.

I do not believe that the real HaTorah observant Yahushua would have said so. I believe that that was said by the NT writers or editors who were biased by Paul’s theology popularized among the Heathen in his early writings. Otherwise whoever opposed Yahushua, if anyone at all, he would have had a much stronger argument against him saying that Yahushua was promoting cannibalism which is totally verboten by HaTorah! I don’t believe that the Pharisees and the interpreters of the Law of that time were that dumb to miss that. I think that we hardly know anything about Yahushua or whatever was his name.