The Answer

[beseder]

I will now be what i was
but what I was will not be what I will be
confusing??
YOU WILL NOW KNOW

And the ANSWER IS

ANTOTIYAH!!!!!

MTZVA!

[beseder]

now SPYING

Let us continue with our "sonship" dialogue

[Spying]

he,he

Hi AntotiYAH,

(this isnt really a debate, hehe, just want to get something across, that many vegetarianists want to affirm and issue as doctrinal and ONLY truth...you know?)

well, I break dance- and that couldnt be done on top of a table, and I do it for Yah so is this dancing good? he,he,he...

He/he/he, methinks you got me! Yes? No!

You received a double blessing from me :

Hi AntotiYah,

Welcome to this forum! Have you pulled up a chair, yet? Then, sit down and speak. We will listen, even if it is only for song and dance. Please no dancing on my table top unless of course you are David! I don't want my table to break. Now, song that is something else. We will hear. We need to learn to sing together at this table, and YAH knows later dancing. Do you have song for us to sing? Again, welcome, and be blessed!

Hi Beseder,

You say, "be seder". You are like a fine wine too long in the bottle, earthy. You have a smell of "be cedar" and a taste of oak. I sense stability and judgment. Is there a hint of fruit? Cheers and welcome to Lo Ammi.

And you desire more? May you be blessed for dancing on my table. Now, let's do sing about sonship!

Your Brother, Spying

[Thummim]

Fool me once?

20 Wisdom crieth without; she uttereth her voice in the streets:

21 She crieth in the chief place of concourse, in the openings of the gates: in the city she uttereth her words, saying,

22 How long, ye simple ones, will ye love simplicity? and the scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge? Pro. 1: 20 - 22


--> Please, no more riddles that escape all wisdom.

....Michael

[beseder]

Reason

Hi Thummim

I did all of this for a reason
And you had much to do with it.

Remeber reading that I have been "pushed"?
you were that "shuv"...
you tested AntotiYah when all he wanted to do was share the Greatest wisdom...LOVE.
He found out that ALL knowledge is possesed in that ONE THING.
It Transcends all this arrogance.
And so, I will NOW battle YOU...this is what you wanted and so i will give it.
However, not just yet.
I have been playing "duality"(Ya'Acov) for a while.
I have to go back, but, I will be different to a sence.

All the KNowledge that was poured on here by beseder would have not been recieved in the same way(especially by you) if It had been antotiYah.

BUT NOW i am ONE again and ready.
With HIS SPIRIT that I constantly hold back, I will now hold fast to it and unleash. Who knows, it may still be nothing to you.

But you were right about one thing Thummim,
I will share my depth of knowledge of Judaism.
And you will see how far off you are!

Shalom

[beseder]

before the dinner, an appetizer

Hi Spying,
PLease inform me to why you posted those certain quotes(from you and I) and was it purposely put in that order?

Blessings

[Thummim]

"Truth" has a different purpose than "love" does.

...beseder,

...I appreciate your knowledge. But "love" is not the answer that I seek. If I offended Antotiyah by my comments, {he is JEWish also}, it was unintended. Antotiyah believes that christianity is a just faith for the JEWish people to follow. What christianity really is to the JEWish people, is a charge of murder against us. So we are the people who would kill a messiah? It is too bad that so many christians have believed this about JEWs. Because of it, we remain an unrighteous people to them. {Jn. 15: 6, Mat. 27: 25} I set the name of YHWH in the way of these charges, and show that the tanakh is a JEWish book about a righteous people {Isa. 44: 22} who have written our own name from cover to cover within its pages. So how has christianity deemed us JEWs to be the unrighteous people of our own book, and they themselves as the true heirs of our righteousness? Slander fills many JEWish graves, and love doesn't open a single one of them. I know my arguments, and why I argue as I do. In showing that the ideals of christianity are corrupt, I even up the playing field between us and them. I call for reason, not conversion. Why would I leave the name of YHWH {drawn from our own name} to follow a {messiah?} who only knows how to curse this name? You don't have to love me, but believe that {my/our} righteousness goes as far as any other people's righteousness does. And do not believe that the love in christian hearts is an answer to the charges against our name. Time has tested this love, again and again, and it hasn't held up to the test.

....Michael

[Spying]

The Order!

Hi AntotiYAH,

I used the three quotes, two from you and one from me, to show you that I knew your identity when I began my post with "He/he/he, methinks you got me!" That was a silent message to you that I knew who you were without blowing your identity. Your quotes should show you that I had you in my scope. I didn't want to expose your identity because I did not know what you had in mind so I gave you a he/he/he which is something I never do, but which is something that you do do.

Yes, the order is something that may have meaning to you. I wanted to indicate to you that the topic of sonship is not for vegetarians. It is for those who can eat meat. It is also a topic that may require considerable skill in dancing with each step following upon another.

Whenever I greet anyone, I follow my intuition. I depend on the spirit. Sometimes I don't know why I say the things I say. I know originally I did not want you to dance around the truth of your identity without exposing yourself as did David. You did dance, and you did not sidestep the truth, and I enjoyed your dance, and I thank you for not breaking my table, but we are in competition until we are in unison. In the end, you should be stronger than me. That is the wonderful thing about teaching. If the teacher is a good teacher, the student will always progress farther than the mentor.

We are here to restore a whole lot of things, and you are going to help in that process. May YAH continue to bless you.

Do you now understand better the dynamics of conflict that must take place between us in order that we draw the truth out of each other. This is a place to argue for the truth until the truth is seen as truth. For the most part, I give everyone my best. Some are stronger than others. You know who the strong ones are. I don't hold back with the strong, but I do slow dance with the the weak.

Sincerely, Spying

[tonyshaw]

to thummim:

I wish, in this post, to convey my deepest repects to you. If I offend I apologize up-front. I cannot pretend that I understand your point of view in life, because I cannot begin to. Nor can I pretend to say I sympathize because how can one sympathize who has had no real deep-experiences as Jews as a people have had to suffer for such a long time in history? I can only say that I wish to show respect in my post here.

**************************************************

I would like to say that I consider myself a Christian on the basis that I believe that Jesus is God, Creator, and that I have proclaimed to accept His sacrifice of Himself as payment for my unworthiness to be in His presence. That, by this, He makes me clean and worthy to be with Him in Heaven. This is what I believe.

**************************************************

I seem to agree with you in that there are people who call themselves "Christians", but then their actions and words show no "love". I would have to say that they probably aren't Christians, as Christians are to be known by the Godly love in their lives. Many to not reach this cirteria. But I would have to say that I myself (as Paul even said of himself) do things which I later regret.

If I read my OT & NT correctly, the Jews as a people are still God's people, and all of His promises to them still apply. And I believe that one day Israel will rule the entire word. That is why I believe so many nations try to wipe out the Jews, because this promise is a threat to anyone who wants themselves or their people to be the superior in the world. That is my best and limited understanding.

I also believe that God will damn anyone who harms any Jew individually, or the Jews as a people. This would include anyone who calls themselves christian. How can anyone escape God's wrath by hurting the apple of His eye, His beloved. How many times have I read in the OT where God refers to His people like a husband would refer to his wife? Now, in most places of the world, no-one gets away with messing with someone's wife. Again, that is my best and limited understanding.

*************************************************

I know that you and I do not see eye-to-eye on the religious points of view. But, I want to at least express myself to you how I feel - that I feel very humbled before the prescence of God, and I feel very humbled before the presence of one of God's people (Jew) because of the connection I expressed above, and what they've had to go through (and still do).

At the very least, I wanted to let you know that I am a person who calls himself a Christian, and I stand before you humbled and with respect towards you. The richness of knowledge and understanding of God that the Jews have is beyond my comprehension, and I feel very lucky and fortunate to have the opportunity to read these and other boards.


*************************************************

I really do not know enough to post much here, but I want to thank you for at least listnening to me this one time.

- Tony

[beseder]

indeed an awesome post TONY
welcome on this journey
may you be richly blessed for your kind words to our people
(even though your post was to thummim, i agree)

MTZVA

and yes, SPYING, I was trying to leave clues around to who i was.
And you said you knew since the beginning?
I doubt that
However- thank you for your words of encouragement, toda, toda
Be blessed all of you
and yes, you too Thummim
bye

AntotiYah

[Thummim]

"Who is a JEW?" All of us JEWs want to understand this question that pricks our souls

...Hi Anthony {AntotiYah},

...I'm glad that your own identity has been restored. I have a question to ask of you. Suppose that YHWH wanted to test christianity, to test its worthiness to wear his name. YHWH looks down and finds the center of the christian people, someplace that sounds like christmas (*little saint nick, alias Santa*) and like (*silent night, holy night, the land of Austria*) and so drops the hatred of his name in the midst of this sea of christianity to test "LOVE" for his family name. You would expect that christianity with its fine christian values, would guard the name of YaHudaH, since this tree is the wood of expectations and ingrafting. Now there were a few christians who were drawn from within themselves, to guard the wood of "Judah". But they were so few and were some of the very least of the christian people. {an industrialist like Schindler and a politition like Walenberg, a lone priest along with a few christians who had dissasociated themselves from their churches, seeing that they had also refused to defend the name of YHWH in its time of trouble} The number of worthy christians were so few, that it became more economical to just save their names as is done today. "Jesus" must have looked down with disgust and felt very shame faced at seeing how few of his own followers even liked the name that GD's name was taken from, or how few of them would even feed the hungry or shelter the oppressed of his own people {even of JEWish children?}. I dare say, if "Jesus" is a righteous man, that he must have cursed himself for ever having given any strength to this worthless faith that now followed him. {*it must have seemed so at an assumed time of testing*}

...My question is, why would a JEW choose to be a christian, knowing the poisoned relationship that the christian people had fathered against the JEWs? {christ killers all - Mat. 27: 25} How do you discount the evil that follows "Jesus"? I would like to convince you that it is better to be JEWish that it is to be christian. I am not even sure what a JEW who chooses to become a christian, gives up? There have always been JEWs "a few" who have chosen other faiths. You say that "LOVE" is an answer. Don't the practitioners of the other faiths also "LOVE"? Is it wrong to test "LOVE", and when can we say that it has failed? I do not believe that most christians "LOVE" JEWs, only their percieved salvation which discludes most JEWs by the name of "Jesus". Do you cross out the anti JEWish (*exclusionary*) verses from your NT? What I would most like to learn from you, is how you deal with being a christian. Don't you feel at times, "cut off" from being a part of the JEWish people?

...I do not mean to discomfort you in asking these questions, but until recenly I have held back. Your playfulness has made me a little braver in seeking answers. This is the kind of question that sticks in the soul of a JEW. I've been careful on this subject in the past, not wanting to offend you.

....Michael

[Thummim]

...Hi tonyshaw,

...I believe that you do love the JEWish people. Here in America, we do not have a strong undercurrent of anti-semitism as Europe has had. Anti-semitism still flourishes in Europe. For those who truly love the JEWish people, I believe that they will inherit a name that is better than family names from YHWH of YaH-W-daH, the name of Yahudah. I believe in your sincerity. With many more people like you, who truly love the JEWish people {and do not refute our righteousness}, I believe that we JEWs would live more safely in our world, being among our friends. I do believe in righteous christians, just not a righteous "christianity". I'm glad that you dropped by. Please stay. This is as good a place to learn as any other.

...Friends

....Michael

[tonyshaw]

To thummim & beseder,

Thank you!

And even if I do not post much, you can be sure that I will visit and keep reading. This is how I learn, and I truely enjoy visiting!

Thanks again for the warm welcome!

[Spying]

You Got Me!

Hi AntotiYAH,

I absolutely did not know that Beseder was AntotiYah when Beseder appeared on the Forum. If I had know that you were Beseder, I may not have given you an additional blessing. This is what I love about pseudonyms, you never know who you are addressing! I dream of speaking with an angel. I dream of speaking with the Apostle John or Mary. In a sense, you have Jacobed me. This is what I indicated to you in my reply which says:

I used the three quotes, two from you and one from me, to show you that I knew your identity when I began my post with "He/he/he, methinks you got me!"

I knew your identity only shortly before that post.

Sincerely, Spying