Can U slove it?

[beseder]

I bestow a riddle before you all.
Every member here on Lo-Ammi


I am one
one person alone
however, I made myself Ya'acov

a little to soon to speak
Yet, have not spoken

with a dropping of sand
One, I shall return

and the emergence of ONE shall your hearts be


MTVA

[Thummim]

The riddle, yet unsolved.

beseder,

...Israel, the son of Isaac, was my first choice until he spoke to Joseph in Genesis {bereshith} 37: 13. Now I await your answer to the riddle. Israel shall be of one heart, but has already spoken.

....Michael

[SOLOBEN]

FOR THE RIDDLER...

I am one
GOD...

one person alone
THE MESSIAH

however, I made myself Ya'acov
WHO TOOK ON HUMAN FLESH...(JESUS)

a little to soon to speak
Yet, have not spoken
THE TIME HAS NOT COME...

with a dropping of sand
THE HOUR IS NEIGH... (THE SAND FROM THE HOUR GLASS)

One, I shall return
BEHOLD I COME QUICKLY... JESUS WILL RETURN TO REIGN IN GLORY!


and the emergence of ONE shall your hearts be
SALVATION FOR THE JEWS WILL BE REALIZED AT THE SECOND COMING!

PRAISE THE LORD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Thummim]

"Jesus" *Yeshua* has no blessing for Jerusalem!

...Soloben, If "Jesus" is the answer to the riddle, I'll be sorely disappointed.

...Israel's eternal salvation dates to the time of Cyrus. It is found in the same paragraph that Cyrus is named in, and is called an everlasting salvation, world without end {unto the end of the world}. It accompanies the promise of YHWH to never be angry with his people again. {Isa. 45: 17 --> Isa. 54: 9} He who abandons his flock to slaughter, is a bad shepherd. "Jesus" isn't given 2000 years to prove himself. He failed to be the peace of his people. He failed to show himself to be a blessing at all to the house of YaHudaH. Neither did "Jesus" restore knowledge of YHWH's name to the house of YaHudaH in any way, no matter what John 17: 6, 11 and 12 says. Isa. 40: 1 - 3 is not about "Jesus" in any imaginable way. {see Mat. 3: 3} Were it not that YHWH's existance is found in his name, the enemies of Israel would have fallen a long time ago. Outside of his name, how is he to be invoked? If YaH-W-daH doesn't answer, it could be because no one calls upon his name. Thummim {the plural of "tome", = it "completes"} his name, is forgotten knowledge. The sacred name is never completed except when it is invoked. The fourth letter is kept out of the sacred name of the people who live in the praises of {YaHudaH = "praise Yah"} their Eloheem.

7 And there is none that calleth upon thy name, that stirreth up himself to take hold of thee: for thou hast hid thy face from us, and hast consumed us, because of our iniquities. Isa. 64: 7

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63 And the Tirshatha {the governor of Jerusalem in Ezra's time} said unto them, that they should not eat of the most holy things, till there stood up a priest with Urim and with Thummim. Ezra 2: 63, Neh. 7: 65


...It is a terrible thing to leave Babylon without this knowledge.


20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;

21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart. Ps. 44: 20, 21

...But this is unintentional sin. Knowledge does not survive death. The king of Babylon murdered the knowledge of the priesthood.


17 Therefore he brought upon them the king of the Chaldees, who slew their young men with the sword in the house of their sanctuary, and had no compassion upon young man or maiden, old man, or him that stooped for age: he gave them all into his hand.

18 And all the vessels of the house of God, great and small, and the treasures of the house of YHWH, and the treasures of the king, and of his princes; all these he brought to Babylon.

19 And they burnt the house of God, and brake down the wall of Jerusalem, and burnt all the palaces thereof with fire, and destroyed all the goodly vessels thereof. II Chr. 36: 17 - 19

...Because "Jesus" did not teach the name of GD, he cannot be the messiah. That he brought no blessing to Jerusalem is a lesson of history.

....Michael

[Spying]

Messiah Yahushua!

Hi Beseder,

Thank you for this riddle!

I see everything, and I mean everything in terms of Messiah Yahushua so I will take Soloben's bent. Sorry, Thummim!

I am one: What is left after YAHWEH warred with Satan hence a small "one".

one person alone: What is left after YAHWEH emptied HIMSELF into the ground, one single spark of the spirit reserved for himself.

however, I made myself Ya'acov: The manifestation of YAHWEH as Messiah Yahushua who supplants all other claimants to the birthright.

a little to soon to speak: Messiah speaks not as YAHWEH but as the Son of Man and only to the Elect.

Yet, have not spoken: As YAHWEH ELOHIM!

with a dropping of sand: The disciples are grains of sand (the seed of Abraham) gathering on the sea shore, the beginning of the new covenant, the initial gathering, the first fruits. This includes both Jew and Gentile.

One, I shall return: Our gathering, the beginning of the ingathering, the revealing of all the grains of sand, the revealing of Israel hence the "One" with a capital "O". This also includes both Jew and Gentile.

and the emergence of ONE shall your hearts be: The voice of YAHWEH ELOHIM is heard by all. This is the resurrection of all. YAHWEH ELOHIM is now "ONE": Restored and Complete. Bye, Bye HaSatan

Sincerely, Spying

[Thummim]

A difference of opinion exists.

Spying writes;

one person alone: What is left after YAHWEH emptied HIMSELF into the ground, one single spark of the spirit reserved for himself.

however, I made myself Ya'acov: The manifestation of YAHWEH as Messiah Yahushua who supplants all other claimants to the birthright.

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...In both cases, this {Empty} Eloheem manages to occupy his own space. "Jesus" prays to him and Cain gets spoken to, by him. He still is in his abode.

Spying writes;

however, I made myself Ya'acov: The manifestation of YAHWEH as Messiah Yahushua who supplants all other claimants to the birthright.

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...Jacob is still in his earthly position, as YHWH's creation Israel, to whom the covenant is given. The giver is still YHWH.

***********************************************
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am God, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city. Hos. 11: 9
***********************************************
...Spying, I realize that the words of the text mean little to you, when they say other than that which you want them to. You can always morter a new understanding of them with your "bent" reasoning. But you cannot back your reasoning up with the words of the tanakh {as written}. The words never quite say what you want them to. {such as our arguments concerning the the red heifer, whose ashes cannot ever touch death}

Spying writes;

with a dropping of sand: The disciples are grains of sand (the seed of Abraham) gathering on the sea shore, the beginning of the new covenant, the initial gathering, the first fruits. This includes both Jew and Gentile.

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...Show me where gentiles are ceeded the covenant of Israel? While a gentile can come into the covenant as an adherent to it, {excluding all other faiths from his life including christianity}, YHWH never even insinuated that he would give his covenant to another faith. He never even saves a single gentile nation from their enemies within the entire tanakh, that I can recall.

Spying writes;

One, I shall return: Our gathering, the beginning of the ingathering, the revealing of all the grains of sand, the revealing of Israel hence the "One" with a capital "O". This also includes both Jew and Gentile.

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...I can read in the text of the tanakh, where YHWH regathers his people and places them in the land of Israel. But isn't Israel in some fashion, always named?

...Among all the worlds faiths, none have taken a greater toll on JEWish life, that christianity. Doesn't it bother you, that the NT is a book that is put together by the church of Rome? So Rome dictates your faith? Where did it get its authority to write a book that supercedes the tanakh?

....Michael

[Spying]

How Easy You Forget Your Brothers!

Hi Lo Ammi,

Deut 28:63-66
63 And it shall come to pass, that as YAHWEH rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so YAHWEH will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
64 And YAHWEH shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but YAHWEH shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life: (KJV)


Deut 30:1-6
1 And it shall come to pass, when all these things are come upon thee, the blessing and the curse, which I have set before thee, and thou shalt call them to mind among all the nations, whither YAHWEH thy ELOHIM hath driven thee,
2 And shalt return unto YAHWEH thy ELOHIM, and shalt obey his voice according to all that I command thee this day, thou and thy children, with all thine heart, and with all thy soul;
3 That then the LORD thy God will turn thy captivity, and have compassion upon thee, and will return and gather thee from all the nations, whither YAHWEH thy ELOHIM hath scattered thee.
4 If any of thine be driven out unto the outmost parts of heaven, from thence will YAHWEH thy ELOHIM gather thee, and from thence will he fetch thee:
5 And YAHWEH thy ELOHIM will bring thee into the land which thy fathers possessed, and thou shalt possess it; and he will do thee good, and multiply thee above thy fathers.
6 And YAHWEH thy ELOHIM will circumcise thine heart, and the heart of thy seed, to love YAHWEH thy ELOHIM with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, that thou mayest live. (KJV)

Thummim is so forgetful that he imagines that it is only the tribes of Judah and Benjamin with a smattering of Levi that have been scattered among all the nations. He looks at the nations, and all he sees is the suffering of the Jews. Of course, we all know that the tribes of the House of Israel were not scattered, were they? They have not suffered, have they? They need not be gathered, or should they? The Jews have always remembered the NAME. After all, the Jews were declared righteous at the time of Cyrus; therefore, how could they forget the name and serve other ELOHIM?

The House of Israel forgot the NAME of YAHWEH (the TORAH, righteous activity). They even forgot their own identity!

Our fathers lost possession of the Land of Israel because they rebelled against YAHWEH ELOHIM and HIS Torah. It happened to them as it is written above. We, their children, know the anxiety caused by that rebellion and described by the above words. We have felt it in our hearts. Wherever we have found ourselves, we know that we were not home.

I know that YAHWEH ELOHIM has through Messiah Yahushua fetched me to HIMSELF. I need not go anywhere. I am at home dwelling in HIM.

Thank you, Messiah Yahushua!

John 10:16
16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd. (KJV)

Sincerely, Spying

[beseder]

I Am EL not man!

Can you explain yourself out of that spying?
It looks to me that you avoided that in Thummim's reply.
If you hold fast to your belief in this messiah, explain how this man is EL when Hashem himself declares he is not a man!

Toda

MTZVA

[Thummim]

Isaiah, Chapter 48

1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of YHWH, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness.

...Does YaHudah give birth to the house of Jacob? What can this mean? Does it mean that a remnant of Israel comes forth with YaHudaH as they depart the lands of Babylon? And how big are the lands of Babylon? Do they reach to the ends of the earth? Would this possibly also cover Israel? When YHWH delivers YaHudah, he also delivers Israel.

2 For they call themselves of the holy city, and stay themselves upon the God of Israel; YHWH of hosts is his name.

3 I have declared the former things from the beginning; and they went forth out of my mouth, and I shewed them; I did them suddenly, and they came to pass.

4 Because I knew that thou art obstinate, and thy neck is an iron sinew, and thy brow brass;

5 I have even from the beginning declared it to thee; before it came to pass I shewed it thee: lest thou shouldest say, Mine idol hath done them, and my graven image, and my molten image, hath commanded them.

...YHWH is the sole savior of his people is what is being said.

6 Thou hast heard, see all this; and will not ye declare it? I have shewed thee new things from this time, even hidden things, and thou didst not know them.

7 They are created now, and not from the beginning; even before the day when thou heardest them not; lest thou shouldest say, Behold, I knew them.

...From this very moment, YHWH creates salvation for his people.

8 Yea, thou heardest not; yea, thou knewest not; yea, from that time that thine ear was not opened: for I knew that thou wouldest deal very treacherously, and wast called a transgressor from the womb.

9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off.

...Because YaHudaH and YHWH are the same name. {YHWH's namesake}

10 Behold, I have refined thee, but not with silver; I have chosen thee in the furnace of affliction.

11 For mine own sake, even for mine own sake, will I do it: {see Isa. 43: 25} for how should my name be polluted? and I will not give my glory unto another. {another god}

12 Hearken unto me, O Jacob and Israel, my called; I am he; I am the first, I also amthe last.

...This deliverance includes all the nations of Israel in the return of YaHudah to the lands of Israel and the city of Jerusalem.

13 Mine hand also hath laid the foundation of the earth, and my right hand hath spanned the heavens: when I call unto them, they stand up together.

14 All ye, assemble yourselves, and hear; which among them hath declared these things? YHWH hath loved him: he will do his pleasure on Babylon, and his arm shall be on the Chaldeans.

...Now we have a date for the deliverance of the nations of Israel.

15 I, even I, have spoken; yea, I have called him: I have brought him, and he shall make his way prosperous.

16 Come ye near unto me, hear ye this; I have not spoken in secret from the beginning; from the time that it was, there am I: and now the Lord GOD, and his Spirit, hath sent me.

17 Thus saith YHWH, thy Redeemer, the Holy One of Israel; I am YHWH thy God which teacheth thee to profit, which leadeth thee by the way that thou shouldest go.

18 O that thou hadst hearkened to my commandments! then had thy peace been as a river, and thy righteousness as the waves of the sea:

...You would have not have been taken captive.

19 Thy seed also had been as the sand, and the offspring of thy bowels like the gravel thereof; his name {Israel} should not have been cut off nor destroyed from before me.

20 Go ye forth of Babylon, flee ye from the Chaldeans, with a voice of singing declare ye, tell this, utter it even to the end of the earth; say ye, YHWH hath redeemed his servant Jacob.

21 And they thirsted not when he led them through the deserts: he caused the waters to flow out of the rock for them: he clave the rock also, and the waters gushed out.

22 There is no peace, saith YHWH, unto the wicked. Isa. 48: 1 - 22


Nehemiah, Chapter 1

1 The words of Nehemiah the son of Hachaliah. And it came to pass in the month Chisleu, in the twentieth year, as I was in Shushan the palace,

2 That Hanani, one of my brethren, came, he and certainmen of Judah; and I asked them concerning the Jews that had escaped, which were left of the captivity, and concerning Jerusalem.

3 And they said unto me, The remnant that are left of the captivity there in the province are in great affliction and reproach: the wall of Jerusalem also is broken down, and the gates thereof are burned with fire.

4 And it came to pass, when I heard these words, that I sat down and wept, and mourned certain days, and fasted, and prayed before the God of heaven,

5 And said, I beseech thee, YHWH God of heaven, the great and terrible God, that keepeth covenant and mercy for them that love him and observe his commandments:

6 Let thine ear now be attentive, and thine eyes open, that thou mayest hear the prayer of thy servant, which I pray before thee now, day and night, for the children of Israel thy servants, and confess the sins of the children of Israel, which we have sinned against thee: both I and my father's house have sinned.

7 We have dealt very corruptly against thee, and have not kept the commandments, nor the statutes, nor the judgments, which thou commandedst thy servant Moses.

8 Remember, I beseech thee, the word that thou commandedst thy servant Moses, saying, If ye transgress, I will scatter you abroad among the nations:

9 But if ye turn unto me, and keep my commandments, and do them; though there were of you cast out unto the uttermost part of the heaven, yet will I gather them from thence, and will bring them unto the place that I have chosen to set my name there.

10 Now these are thy servants and thy people, whom thou hast redeemed by thy great power, and by thy strong hand.

11 O Lord, I beseech thee, let now thine ear be attentive to the prayer of thy servant, and to the prayer of thy servants, who desire to fear thy name: and prosper, I pray thee, thy servant this day, and grant him mercy in the sight of this man. For I was the king's cupbearer.


...These two chapters of text go together. They mirror each other. If only you would read the verse of text that I refer to over and over, you would know that it was all the nations of Israel that were released from their captivity. But it is only those who worship YHWH as their GD, who return to the land of Israel.


21 Remember these, O Jacob and Israel; for thou art my servant: I have formed thee; thou art my servant: O Israel, thou shalt not be forgotten of me.

22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee.

23 Sing, O ye heavens; for YHWH hath done it: shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel.

...There is not two redemptions spoken of here. Just one. The connections are made even more secure when we attach the text of the first chapter of Ezra to the 44th and 45th chapters of Isaiah.


Ezra, Chapter 1

1 Now in the first year of Cyrus king of Persia, that the word of YHWH by the mouth of Jeremiah might be fulfilled, YHWH stirred up the spirit of Cyrus king of Persia, that he made a proclamation throughout all his kingdom, and put it also in writing, saying,

2 Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, YHWH God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.

3 Who is there among you of all his people? his God be with him, and let him go up to Jerusalem, which is in Judah, and build the house of YHWH God of Israel, (he is the God,) which is in Jerusalem.

4 And whosoever remaineth in any place where he sojourneth, let the men of his place help him with silver, and with gold, and with goods, and with beasts, beside the freewill offering for the house of God that is in Jerusalem.

5 Then rose up the chief of the fathers of Judah and Benjamin, and the priests, and the Levites, with all them whose spirit God had raised, to go up to build the house of YHWH which is in Jerusalem.

6 And all they that were about them strengthened their hands with vessels of silver, with gold, with goods, and with beasts, and with precious things, beside all that was willingly offered.

7 Also Cyrus the king brought forth the vessels of the house of YHWH, which Nebuchadnezzar had brought forth out of Jerusalem, and had put them in the house of his gods;

8 Even those did Cyrus king of Persia bring forth by the hand of Mithredath the treasurer, and numbered them unto Sheshbazzar, the prince of Judah.

9 And this is the number of them: thirty chargers of gold, a thousand chargers of silver, nine and twenty knives,

10 Thirty basins of gold, silver basins of a second sortfour hundred and ten, and other vessels a thousand.

11 All the vessels of gold and of silver were five thousand and four hundred. All these did Sheshbazzar bring up with them of the captivity that were brought up from Babylon unto Jerusalem. Ezra 1: 1

....Michael

[Thummim]

Conclusion ...

Isa. chap. 44

26 That confirmeth the word of his servant, and performeth the counsel of his messengers; that saith to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be inhabited; and to the cities of Judah, Ye shall be built, and I will raise up the decayed places thereof:

27 That saith to the deep, Be dry, and I will dry up thy rivers:

28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.


Chapter 45

1 Thus saith YHWH to his anointed {messiah}, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates {of Babylon}; and the gates shall not be shut;

2 I will go before thee, and make the crooked places straight: I will break in pieces the gates of brass, and cut in sunder the bars of iron:

3 And I will give thee the treasures of darkness, and hidden riches of secret places, that thou mayest know that I, YHWH, which call thee by thy name, am the God of Israel.

4 For Jacob my servant's sake, and Israel mine elect, I have even called thee by thy name: I have surnamed thee {Cyrus}, though thou hast not known me.

5 I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:

6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am YHWH, and there is none else.

7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I YHWH do all these things.

8 Drop down, ye heavens, from above, and let the skies pour down righteousness: let the earth open, and let them bring forth salvation, and let righteousness spring up together; I YHWH have created it.

9 Woe unto him that striveth with his Maker! Let the potsherd strive with the potsherds of the earth. Shall the clay say to him that fashioneth it, What makest thou? or thy work, He hath no hands?

10 Woe unto him that saith unto his father, What begettest thou? or to the woman, What hast thou brought forth?

11 Thus saith YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

12 I have made the earth, and created man upon it: I, even my hands, have stretched out the heavens, and all their host have I commanded.

13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts.

14 Thus saith YHWH, The labour of Egypt, and merchandise of Ethiopia and of the Sabeans, men of stature, shall come over unto thee, and they shall be thine: they shall come after thee; in chains they shall come over, and they shall fall down unto thee, they shall make supplication unto thee, saying, Surely God is in thee; and there is none else, there is no God.

15 Verily thou art a God that hidest thyself, O God of Israel, the Saviour.

16 They shall be ashamed, and also confounded, all of them: they shall go to confusion together that are makers of idols.

17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end.

18 For thus saith YHWH that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am YHWH; and there is none else.

19 I have not spoken in secret, in a dark place of the earth: I said not unto the seed of Jacob, Seek ye me in vain: I YHWH speak righteousness, I declare things that are right.

20 Assemble yourselves and come; draw near together, ye that are escaped of the nations: they have no knowledge that set up the wood of their graven image, and pray unto a god thatcannot save.

21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who hath declared this from ancient time? who hath told it from that time? have not I YHWH? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Saviour; there is none beside me.

22 Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

24 Surely, shall one say, in YHWH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

25 In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory.


...Now Spying, if you will do your homework, you will notice that it was all of Israel that was redeemed by their Eloheem. Also note that the messiah of this time is Cyrus. A rather long peace will follow these events.

....Michael

[Thummim]

A priestly nation knowing the name of their Eloheem?

Spying writes;

They need not be gathered, or should they? The Jews have always remembered the NAME. After all, the Jews were declared righteous at the time of Cyrus; therefore, how could they forget the name and serve other ELOHIM?

The House of Israel forgot the NAME of YAHWEH (the TORAH, righteous activity). They even forgot their own identity!

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...Hashem has not been forgotten, just the significance of it. This knowledge is the property of the priesthood. Hashem is as plain as the use of the letters YHWH for the sacred name in Hebrew texts. A people who do not know the name, cannot forget it. They can only learn how they are attached to it. To truly find someone who can be guilty of forgetfulness, we have to go back nearly 2500 years. We known that the prophets likely knew. But do we know when they actually made their contributions to the text of the tanakh? There is not a single soul alive now, that we can accuse of forgetting the name of their Eloheem. Was it general knowledge? Or was this name the domain of the priesthood? Perhaps all we can accuse is the priesthood. {if we dare} That is how Malachi did it.


1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith YHWH of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, {the priests} and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Mal. 2: 1, 2

...We know that it is written that the name of YHWH will be learned by YHWH's people. {Isa. 52: 6} That does not seem to infer any guilt upon the JEWish people. Perhaps in becoming a nation of priests, it is being implied that all YHWH's people are to learn and to serve YHWH's name, as though they are a nation of priests, having priestly knowledge.

....Michael

[Spying]

The Seed Of David!

Hi Beseder,

Peace to you through ELOHIM, our Father, and through ADONAI Messiah Yahushua.

Hosea 11:8-12
8 How shall I give thee up, Ephraim? how shall I deliver thee, Israel? how shall I make thee as Admah (earthy, red soil)? how shall I set thee as Zeboim (glorious ones)? mine heart is turned within me, my repentings are kindled together. (Both Admah and Zeboim were destroyed with Sodom and Gomorrah)
9 I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: for I am ELOHIM, and not man; the Holy One in the midst of thee ("Lo, I am with you always"): and I will not enter into the city.(This age: Obviously, this entering refers to after his glorification, i.e. the gathering of all the spirit through the Cross, John 17:5)
10 They shall walk after YAHWEH: he shall roar like a lion (Matthew 27:50 and 1 Thessalonians 4:16-18, Luke 12:3): when he shall roar, then the children (us, the sprinklers, the ELECT) shall tremble from the west. (I am in the west, and I do indeed tremble.)
11 They shall tremble as a bird out of Egypt, and as a dove out of the land of Assyria: and I will place them in their houses (I am at home in Messiah), saith YAHWEH.
12 Ephraim compasseth me about with lies (the real force behind pseudo Christianity is unconverted, lost Ephraim), and the house of Israel (all the lost tribes) with deceit (the belief that one can live or have immortality without complete obedience to YAH): but Judah (through Messiah Yahushua) yet ruleth with ELOHIM, and is faithful with the saints (the ELECT). (KJV)

Man is the image and glory of YAHWEH ELOHIM, and man is male and female. Man is mortal, physical. YAHWEH ELOHIM is spirit, immortal neither male nor female. Messiah Yahushua was born a mortal, physical man. His father was Joseph, and his mother was Mary. The teaching that Messiah was born EL in the flesh is a false teaching. It is a lie. Messiah was only a man, howbeit, a very special man. It is written:

2 Sam 7:12-16
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed (Singular seed, not all Jews, but one Jew) after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.
13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.
14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:
15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.
16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.(KJV)

Surely, the Son of David is first a mortal man who is given immortality. How is it that the Son of David can become the Son of YAHWEH if YAHWEH ELOHIM is not in some fashion THE MAN (Deuteronomy 8:3). This problem is really yours, my friend, if you are indeed still looking for the Son of David as is Thummim. Somewhere along the line you will have to explain how YAHWEH, who is not a physical man (Adam, 1 Samuel 15:29) nor a mortal man (enoshe, Hosea 11:9), can be a father and have a son of the seed of David. This is your riddle to solve, not mine. I have Messiah Yahushua, the Seed of David, YAHWEH ELOHIM!

Sincerely, Spying

[Thummim]

The children of his {family} name.

Spying writes;

Surely, the Son of David is first a mortal man who is given immortality. How is it that the Son of David can become the Son of YAHWEH if YAHWEH ELOHIM is not in some fashion THE MAN (Deuteronomy 8:3). This problem is really yours, my friend, if you are indeed still looking for the Son of David as is Thummim. Somewhere along the line you will have to explain how YAHWEH, who is not a physical man (Adam, 1 Samuel 15:29) nor a mortal man (enoshe, Hosea 11:9), can be a father and have a son of the seed of David. This is your riddle to solve, not mine. I have Messiah Yahushua, the Seed of David, YAHWEH ELOHIM!
12 And when thy days be fulfilled, and thou shalt sleep with thy fathers, I will set up thy seed after thee, which shall proceed out of thy bowels, and I will establish his kingdom.

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...Cannot YHWH be the father, the creator of all who reflect his image? Then was Isaac to be born of a ninety year old woman, not the creation of YHWH? Then there is the obvious, YHWH has adopted the whole line of Isaac as his own people. Do you say that Isaac is not father to YHWH's people because YHWH hasn't shown you his wife {whom he names as this people} who also gives birth to YaHudaH for him. {Isa. 66: 13}

...Now guess who is the mother of this people?

16 Doubtless thou art our father, though Abraham be ignorant of us, and Israel acknowledge us not: thou, O YHWH, art our father, our redeemer; thy name is from everlasting.

19 We are thine: thou never barest rule over them; they were not called by thy name. Isa. 63: 16, 19

...{As we, the children of our father are}.

3 Hearken unto me, O house of Jacob, and all the remnant of the house of Israel, which are borne by me from the belly, which are carried from the womb:

4 And even to your old age I am he; and even to hoar hairs will I carry you: I have made, and I will bear; even I will carry, and will deliver you. Isa. 46: 3, 4

...as also is YaHudah the mother of this people.

1 Hear ye this, O house of Jacob, which are called by the name of Israel, and are come forth out of the waters of Judah, which swear by the name of YHWH, and make mention of the God of Israel, but not in truth, nor in righteousness. Isa. 48: 1

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13 He shall build an house for my name, and I will stablish the throne of his kingdom for ever.

14 I will be his father, and he shall be my son. If he commit iniquity, I will chasten him with the rod of men, and with the stripes of the children of men:

15 But my mercy shall not depart away from him, as I took it from Saul, whom I put away before thee.

16 And thine house and thy kingdom shall be established for ever before thee: thy throne shall be established for ever.

...YHWH didn't beget a single son. He is father and mother to all of his name.

....Michael

[beseder]

beget?

Hello Thummim v'Spying

question and short comment

To both,
I understand what the christians mean of the word "only begotten"
and to the understanding of what the NT says it is not how you say spying, that this messiah was adopted. I also know what scripture(s) you would pull up .
"him being born of a woman" Hashem thus spoke to him
"Today i have become your father."
not exactly so for the message of the NT
get your NT facts correct, then maybe you can give more challenge to thummim.

so to both again, what is the understanding of the christians way of renderring "begotten", what explains it?
I know they cannot get around the facts that thummim brought up about YHVH is father of all.
If these christians (some seek) truly hold fast to Torah and are from hashem, there must be a way for them to believe that yeshu was not a mere man, however that he was/is(to the way you believe) EL; despite the fact EL states 2 times, if i am correct, That
"I am EL and not man" ?
How is jesus hashem's 'first born' despite the fact TN"K says Israel/Ephraim is his first born? explain spying, please?

shalom

[beseder]

Spying writes:
The teaching that Messiah was born El in the flesh is a false teaching. Its is a lie. Messiah was only a man,...
.................................................................................................... .

Alright then

The christians say
jesus in EL in flesh
and so does your book!

"In the beginning was(is) the word, thw word was(is) with Gd and the word was(is) Gd...
...the word(Gd who was/is with Gd) became flesh."

If this doesn't say that your jesus was "Gd", then you must not have eyes to see what is in your own faith.

I say it again sir
Get your facts straight about your belief in jesus, then you can give more challenge to thummim.
It seems to me that you have your facts twisted about your own book, I wonder how you have "twisted" mine.

have a good day
Beseder