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**Thummim** · 07-08-2002, 04:13 PM

Dispensing justice with a pascel lamb?

...Having taken the body of the servant of Isa. 53, out of the Levitical fire of an offering made upon an altar, we only need to remove from Paul, the idea that this servant is a pascel lamb, to free his messiah from the fire. We know that the leftover meat of this pascel lamb, must be burned in the morning. But if Paul is wrong, then his version of the servant of Isa. 53, needn't be burned in the morning. Not being a Levitical offering or a pascel lamb, nothing will have to be "fulfilled". Then the "named" servants of Isa. 53 will just walk free, having been proved righteous. {as written} Isaiah's people will go free having been interceeded for. {as he wrote it} But what about "christianity" the faith that accused an innocent people whose sins were already addressed by YHWH? What happens to the "accusers" {satans}?

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23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {swear what?}

24 Surely, shall one say, in YHWH, have {I - "Israel"} righteousness and strength: even to {him --> YHWH} shall men come; and all that are "incensed" against him {why ?} shall be ashamed.

--> Thus saith YHWH, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons, and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

25 In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be justified {be found righteous, "tzadek"}, and shall glory. Isa. 45: 23 - 25

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17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Isa. 45: 17

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25 But thus saith YHWH, Even the captives of the mighty shall be taken away, and the prey of the terrible shall be delivered: for I will contend with him that contendeth with thee, and I will save thy children.

26 And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh; and they shall be drunken with their own blood, as with sweet wine: and all flesh shall know that I YHWH am thy Saviour and thy Redeemer, the mighty One of Jacob. Isa. 49: 25, 26

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...Feed them with their own flesh, drunken on their own blood? That sounds a little christian to me.

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53 Then Jesus said unto them, Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except ye eat the flesh of the Son of man, and drink his blood, ye have no life in you.

54 Whoso eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, hath eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.

55 For my flesh is meat indeed, and my blood is drink indeed.

56 He that eateth my flesh, and drinketh my blood, dwelleth in me, and I in him. Jn. 6: 53 - 56

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...There is no doubt that the author of these words believed that salvation required a pascel lamb.

12 I, even I, am he that comforteth you: who art thou, that thou shouldest be afraid of a man that shall die, and of the son of man which shall be made as grass; Isa. 51: 12

***, the son of man? Where have I heard that before? Shall the son of man become as grass, dispensing justice beneith the feet of his people?

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1 Comfort ye, comfort ye my people, saith your God.

2 Speak ye comfortably to Jerusalem, and cry unto her, that her warfare is accomplished, that her iniquity is pardoned: for she hath received of YHWH'S hand double for all her sins.

3 The voice of him that crieth in the wilderness, Prepare ye the way of YHWH, make straight in the desert a highway for our God.

4 Every valley shall be exalted, and every mountain and hill shall be made low: and the crooked shall be made straight, and the rough places plain:

5 And the glory of YHWH shall be revealed, and all flesh shall see it together: for the mouth of YHWH hath spoken it.

6 The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

7 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of YHWH bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

8 The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isa. 40: 1 - 8

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1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith YHWH of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. {but all Israel shall be found righteous}

2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. {freed of it}

3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith YHWH of hosts. Mal. 4: 1 - 3

...Perhaps all that YHWH wants is a little compassion shown to his people. As you judge them, perhaps you also will be judged?

....Michael

**Antotiyah** · 07-09-2002, 09:21 AM

Hi Michael,
Just a little question-- I know you arent Yah the creator, but then if that is true , and I sit in the band with ALL the christians, since i believe in Yesoo, what happens to me?
again, I will ask you like i have done before (one you couldnt answer or just dont wish to answer), what about those who are jewish by birth because they have Jewish parents, but they themselves in their heart are not Yehudi , because they choose not to step and walk in His commandments. with a clinched fist they go after YHWH, an upraised fist against Him...But they just so happen to call themselves "jew"...what even of the one's that care less to even acknowledge Him???
a mystery..hmmmmm
bye

**Thummim** · 07-09-2002, 10:49 AM

Choosing your own neighborhood.

...Hey Antonio, Somehow the faiths of the cross have come to carry a curse against the world within themselves. But where has YHWH cursed the world? YHWH has his own family and his own house rules. He hasn't told the world to live by the rules of his house. The matter that he takes up with the world, Ninevah included, is their violence. Ninevah repented of its violence. It's OK to want a place in the house of YHWH. But how many people really love the name of YHWH? This is his name forever {as he says}. He isn't inviting the world to move into his house, and change his name. This is what the christian faiths want. But the name of salvation for this house is always YHWH. {remembered as YHWH, for ever} To move into this house believing that its inhabitance are cursed, when YHWH hasn't cursed this world, must be revolting to YHWH. Either love his name, or hate it. YHWH has made his people righteous by his own doing. He hasn't lifted the law of his house. This law gives distinction to his people. By his law, his people are distinct from the world. Distinction has kept YaHudaH separate and existing as a people. Israel, apart from the name of YaHudaH, has been swallowed up and now cannot be removed as a people, from the world, requiring YaHudaH to give birth to its own brethren. The faiths of the cross have created "hell" to aid their curse against the world. Hell doesn't exist in the tanakh. The system of the tanakh is a simple one. You live, you die, and the spirit returns to he who gave it. There are no toll booths along the way. I don't want to say that there is no justice. We all hope for justice. But we have to trust that YHWH has a suitable rod in his hand. For those who truly love the name of YaHudaH, there is an open door. Can you believe in the damnation of the JEWish people, and truly love them? It seems to me, that one would search out a path for love to survive. A little intercession helps. But how many christians feel the need to interceed for the people they believe is condemned to hell already? So the worlds believers in {jesus} are saved, but the name from which the letters of YHWH are taken, are condemned? Proving righteousness for the JEWish people, is as easy as reading the tanakh with a little heart for the people. Anyone can intercede. Anyone can discover the name of "YHWH". Anyone can read in the tanakh, where YHWH declares his people righteous by his own efforts. But christiananity is on the wide path to disinheriting the name of YHWH. As to what happens to you, you have the choice. Where does your heart want to dwell? I would be in hell, if separated from those of these JEWish people, whom the christians have condemned already. {how many JEWs can claim salvation through the name of "Jesus"? Let my soul dwell with those who don't {most JEWs}

....Michael

**Spying** · 07-11-2002, 08:02 AM

Restoring Holiness!

Hi Thummim,

Thank you for identifying "ashem" for all of us! I actually went to Strong's to look it up and while there I started to search whether "Arafat" is a Hebrew name or combination of Hebrew words. I spent some time looking for the meaning of my own personal first name. I can literally spent hours in this type of stuff, and it takes me longer because I know next to nothing about the Hebrew language.

Allow me to give you the theoretical basis for sacrifice.

YAHWEH ELOHIM is complete, and YAHWEH ELOHIM is one spirit. With the rebellion occurred ages ago, a significant portion of the spirit of YAHWEH was corrupted and lost. YAHWEH ELOHIM seeks to restore HIS spirit to its former state of completeness and purity and unity.

So, YAHWEH ELOHIM created Adam and Eve and emptied HIS good spirit into them and through them potentially to all that would come forth from them. The spirit that was given to man from YAHWEH ELOHIM is holy spirit. It is good spirit, but this spirit is not complete. A significant portion of the spirit of YAHWEH ELOHIM is in rebellion. This rebellious spirit is attracted to the good spirit within man and seeks to have unity with the good spirit that is within us. Spirit can influence spirit through activity so man is led down the road of evil, and being overwhelmed by the rebellious spirit, the good spirit within individual man is corrupted through union with the evil spirit through our common activities. This occurs over and over with successive generations. So, within collective man, a restoration of the completeness and unification of the spirit of YAHWEH ELOHIM is taking place. This process ends when the rebellious spirits have fully been united with the spirit within man, but we do have a problem, don't we? The united spirit is thoroughly corrupted spirit, and evil does appear to have the upper hand.

This is where Israel and Judah and sacrifice and the altar enter into the picture. YAHWEH has a secret plan. He will purify HIS spirit and make it wholly good again. This is the work of Messiah Yahushua to gather and restore the holiness and the purity and the unity of the spirit of YAHWEH ELOHIM. It is a very good work.

Sincerely, Spying

**Antotiyah** · 07-11-2002, 08:57 AM

"and his name will be the hope for all under heaven"
(from Isaiah I believe)
recorded in the greek old testament/or the latin one--not sure have to look it up.
this name of hope under heaven is the name of the servant of YHWH.
did you know that Thummim.... the servant of YHWH(Isaiah 53) is HIS vindication...YHWH's OWN RIGHT ARM...YHWH's people have mistreated their G-D's right arm, they mistreated His vindication.
But His right arm made many people righteous taking their sins upon His own right arm... and by this..taking the guilt of their sins which He was carring upon His own Right Arm He wioll see many children...yes, even children amoungst the people of the world because by this He /YHWH will make His people "Jealous"(from Deutoronomy i believe).

and with a little poking at us Jews with what Yah is doing amoungst the gentiles, which is giving them the full benifit of being the light for the nations which we Yehudim were supposed to be.
we were supposed to be a light, somehow we failed...It looks like Yah is being the light Himself after He saw that we didnt want that priviledge and responsibility...so He put that responsibility on His own right arm. HIS own right arm is that light for the nations and redemption for His own people. Indeed as Yah ALWAYS SPOKE from the beginning to the end of Tanakh, only a few were spared out of the many that multiplied.
Tell me have my brothers and sisters (us Jews) come to thirst for His word yet??? NO we havent, look at the many Yehudiim that are out there, sure thaty may know a little bit of Yah's word but their lives show know different...they are just as bad as thir cousins the Arabs. They would do everything, have sex, drink, stay in the House of Joy instead of a house of Mourning, in the house of a prostitute instead of the house of G-D, the list goes on.
Until you can witness our Youth THIRSTING after the word of YAH... THE WHOLE of ISRAEL existing at that present moment will be saved...not one minute before...but according to YAH, it has already happened.

It seems that you misunderstand Brit KHadasha brother...but its cool. Tanakh v'Brit Khadasha are one in the same.

But its up to you to ask your self who is G-D's own right arm... that IS the redemption of us Jews, but will cause Jealousy for that redemption by making those amoung the nations His people...and yes, He does say this in Tanakh. He will make those that He did not call His people before His people. All of this is done by His own right arm that will cause many in Israel to stumble... hmmm, it seems that we Jews have MUCH to do with the "building" of Yah...restoring Yah...But many of us have fallen and broke our backs...
I will let it be known of our former and present dishonor, Yes me as AJew...one jew is Israel...and I will let it be known of our disobedience to Yah...But I will also let it be known that WE HAVE the GREAT HOPE, His right ARM that is ready to redeem His people and call on the name of hope which is under heaven.

and i wont do it again Michael-- take the topic off of its subject..
sorry...this is the last
I'll make my own topic concerning it next time.
Be blessed brother.
AntotiYah

**Thummim** · 07-11-2002, 09:01 AM

Heavenly Clean.

...Spying, we are assuming that all of our own spirit comes from GD as pure spirit having no infirmedy until we get a hold of it and commit it to our ungodly ways?

...GD, needing "clean" spirit, tosses it into the heavenly laundry and cleans it, this with a extra big cup of (jesus soap). Then it is commited to the heavenly dryer, or just hung out to dry if not given to the usual wrinkles of faith, and at last it is all cleaned up so GD can again put on a clean spirit. That is of course, allowing for them pesky "spiritual socks" which we all know must end up in hell and in the lake of the fire of GD's wrath, for wondering off at all times. Does GD just go barefoot, considering the sock problem, or does he take to wearing the "good" spiritual mismatches that have realized that it is better to mind the rules?

....Michael

**Antotiyah** · 07-16-2002, 08:29 AM

the way it is said in tanakh is ASHAM...
sorry, just had to state it the way it is written

by you'z guyz

**Spying** · 07-18-2002, 11:01 AM

Compassion!

Hi Thummim,

I am not assuming that the good spirit given to man by YAHWEH ELOHIM is pure spirit. I know that it was holy and pure. This spirit was placed in dirt. YAH determines the measure of the proportion of the spirit. The spirit animates the dirt. The dirt becomes flesh. Now, you have a living soul. This living soul has needs that are required to be fulfilled. This living soul seeks companionship. This living soul needs work. This living soul needs to eat and drink. This living soul has a desire for sex. This living soul can feel pain. This living soul can feel pleasure. This living soul can die.

It is our flesh, or more correctly, the needs and desires of our flesh that corrupt the spirit. YAHWEH could have increased the proportion of spirit to flesh in the beginning so that the spirit in us would triumph over our flesh in every case, but YAHWEH did not do this in order that the spirit in each of us would be overcome by our own desires. YAHWEH wanted us to learn defeat before HE would allow us to triumph through Messiah Yahushua.

Messiah Yahushua came to show us the way to triumph, and Messiah Yahushua came to destroy Satan and all the other rebellious spirits. The only way you can destroy spirit is to take their spirit from them. This Messiah did do, and this reclaimed spirit was purified and is now being purified through us in the process. All the spirit belongs to Messiah. Messiah now gives to his chosen whatever spirit they need to overcome. So, we are without excuse. The source of this spirit is the saints. The spirit which we share is from those who have previously overcome and were killed for the sake of Messiah. This is how there is "gain" in death (Philippians 1:21). A grain of wheat falls to the ground and dies. So, in death, the spirit has opportunity to increase. (In martyrdom, truth is cast to the ground, and it prospers, Daniel 8:12), but that is a different thread, is it not?

Thummim, it is in your heart to help your people. You can only help them by telling them the truth. You cannot bless them by enabling them to feed on lies. They will not overcome as long as they are believing lies. It is THE LIE to tell anyone that they can disobey YAHWEH ELOHIM and live. This lie was first told by Satan to Eve. Eve believed the lie and sinned. So, Satan is the Father of THE LIE:

John 8:44
44 Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie (in the Greek, THE LIE), he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it. (KJV)

All who believe "the lie" will continue to sin. They are powerless to do otherwise (Romans 1:25).

You are teaching your people that they are righteous without performing righteousness. So, you are also teaching a form of THE LIE (2 Thessalonians 2:11-12). This Christianity does also all the time teach. You can clearly see how Christianity has been such a curse to your people. They also do not believe or teach that it is necessary for they themselves to overcome and perform righteousness in order to live. Why is it that you cannot see that you yourself are providing your own people a variation of the same curse?

It is amazing to me that when I come to you preaching righteousness that you say that this is cursing your people. Yet, you come denying the performance of righteousness, and you somehow imagine that you a blessing. I know that you have the capacity for far greater compassion than that!

Sincerely, Spying

**Thummim** · 07-18-2002, 11:18 AM

Eyes that can't see!

Spying, it is christianity and the faiths of the cross that is the great lie told against the JEWish people. There is no atonement for intentional sin. There is no declaration of righteousness, for the people of Israel, that comes from "Jesus". There is no peace that follows "Jesus" as it is implied in the statement, "Cry unto her that her warfare is accomplished". There is no return to the land in the time of "Jesus". He "saves" the wrong people.

...Flesh is a stupid animal. All sin comes from the spirit of man. Flesh contemplates nothing. --- Lies, lies, lies!

...a house not builded upon "Hashem", is not a JEWish house! Baruch hashem,

....Michael

**Thummim** · 07-18-2002, 11:53 AM

Whose righteousness is it anyhow?

I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. Isa. 44: 22

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I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear. {Swear what?}

Surely, shall one say, in YHWH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa. 45: 23 - 25

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9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. Isa. 54: 9

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17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of YHWH, and their righteousness is of me, saith YHWH. Isa. 54: 17

--> the people inherit righteousness from their Eloheem. Don't you know, Spying, that your righteousness ended when you refused to except the righteousness that YHWH deeded to his people, through his name. {his glory}

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1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of YHWH is risen upon thee.

Who is among you that feareth YHWH, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, that walketh in darkness, and hath no light? let him trust in the name of YHWH, {his glory} and stay upon his God.

2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but YHWH shall arise upon thee, and his glory shall be seen upon thee.

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19 The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but YHWH shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory.

20 Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for YHWH shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended.

21 Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified.

22 A little one shall become a thousand, and a small one a strong nation: I YHWH will hasten it in his time. Isa. 60: 19 - 22

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O YHWH our Adonai, how excellent is thy name in all the earth! who hast set thy glory above the heavens.

2 Out of the mouth of babes and sucklings hast thou ordained strength because of thine enemies, that thou mightest still the enemy and the avenger. {babes who are taught to praise their Eloheem}

3 When I consider thy heavens, the work of thy fingers, the moon and the stars, which thou hast ordained; {whose glory is beneith the glory of YHWH's name}

--> {really Spying, you think that you would understand by now}. Baruch Hashem,

....Michael

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Ashem is a root word meaning "guiltiness"

Ashem is a root word meaning "guiltiness"

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