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  • #16
    Why Not Life?

    Hi Thummim,

    It is written and said:
    Ezek 18:20-23
    20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him.
    21 But if the wicked will turn from all his sins that he hath committed, and keep all my statutes, and do that which is lawful and right, he shall surely live, he shall not die.
    22 All his transgressions that he hath committed, they shall not be mentioned unto him: in his righteousness that he hath done he shall live.
    23 Have I any pleasure at all that the wicked should die? saith the Lord GOD: and not that he should return from his ways, and live?(KJV)
    And you say that your soul and the soul of your fellow YAHUDIM have no need of salvation? And you say that the scriptures do not teach the saving of souls? I know, you are all righteous by declaration, aren't you? Why then do you die? It seems to me that the soul of the one going to die has need of being saved from that death, does he not?

    I can and do understand why Jews suffer death when they are murdered like Messiah Yahushua and his holy apostles and disciples, but I do not understand why Jews die if they are indeed righteous as you say?

    Sincerely, Spying
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      And he makes his people, a righteous people.

      ...Spying, all die. Does that mean that there cannot be a righteous person anywhere in the world? This idea seems to make YHWH a bit of a fool. Do you believe that a sinner can be righteous? Show me where the sin of Moses was atoned for, or show me where YHWH had a change of heart towards Moses, as he watched his people cross the Jordan river without him. Did Moses cease to be righteous because he sinned?

      ...Now YHWH saves lives. But does he save souls? Find this distinction for me somewhere in the tanakh. As I understand it, when the body dies, the spirit goes back to he who gave it. This is something that is to be for all people. But those of Israel are gathered back to their own brethren, and I am assuming into their names.

      Death is also a penalty given to the sinner of many of the transgressions, written in YHWH's law. Could it be that the soul {life} that dies, does so under penalty of the law? Many have sinned and died under the penalty of the law. Many have been "cut off" from their own people because of their sin, as specified by the Levitical law. Also, doesn't the tanakh assume that all will die at the end of their days?

      ...Yes, JEWs are oppressed in this world. But does it follow reason that it is because of YHWH's dissatisfaction with his own people? Isn't this a very heavy stone, that crushes to powder all people's?

      ...So YHWH calls his people righteous, for his own sake. Why should this bother you? A holy people, are also a righteous people. And this distinction is something that YHWH wants for all his people's. YHWH gives no permission for his people to sin. But if they do, they are still apart of a righteous peoples. Shalom

      ....Michael

      Comment


      • #18
        Pushed Into The Sea!

        Hi Thummim,

        Yes, all that transgress and commit iniquity do die. That is exactly what Ezekiel says. Moses did not enter the promised land because he did not sanctify YAHWEH ELOHIM in the sight of all Israel. David died. If repentance and turning were possible, if life were possible, then surely David would have received life. Indeed, there has been no one, has there, who has opted for life? It would seem that if life were possible, in all the billions who have lived on this earth, surely one YAHUD should have lived up to his name and chose life. Is YAHWEH ELOHIM a liar?

        Here is what you have, Thummim. You have an all righteous people who are all going to die. The declaration of righteousness in which you place your trust has not saved the life of anyone, no not even one Jew. You also now have the Jews in partial possession of the land. The history of the Jews has shown that YAHWEH'S declaration of righteousness is no guarantee that they will maintain even partial possession of the Land. If the declaration did not save the rebuilt Temple and the Jewish nation which returned from Babylon, what makes you think that it will save the Jewish people from expulsion from the Land today? If history is an indication of the future, I would say that there is a very good chance that the Jews will be pushed into the sea. I know that in my own limited experience, nothing changes unless behavior changes. So, what has changed in the behavior of the Jews the past two thousand years? Who is going to keep them from being pushed into the sea? Has YAHWEH ELOHIM changed HIS ways? Does YAHWEH ELOHIM love HIS righteous Jews today more than the righteous Jews of Jerusalem and Masada two thousand years ago?

        Sincerely, Spying
        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

        Comment


        • #19
          Pushed into the sea?

          47 Remember how short my time is: wherefore hast thou made all men in vain?

          48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. Ps. 89: 47, 48

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          ...First, all die. But many are delivered from the power of the grave. That is, they postpone death because of YHWH's salvation. {of the still living}


          14 Like sheep they are laid in the grave; death shall feed on them; and the upright shall have dominion over them in the morning; and their beauty shall consume in the grave from their dwelling.

          15 But God will redeem my soul from the power of the grave: for he shall receive "me". {"my spirit, to himself"} Selah. Ps. 49: 14, 15


          ...Then there is the "name of Yahudah". I suppose that being attached to the name of YHWH, leaves the soul within the glory of GD's name. This is still what the tanakh is all about. {Hashem}


          Spying writes;

          Who is going to keep them from being pushed into the sea? Has YAHWEH ELOHIM changed HIS ways? Does YAHWEH ELOHIM love HIS righteous Jews today more than the righteous Jews of Jerusalem and Masada two thousand years ago?

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          ...YHWH can do more with the power of his name, than the nations can do with all their strength. The knowledge of his name will spread like fire, as it rises upon his people, in all its glory. After 2000 years, the nation of Israel again exists. Israel is not without strength in this world. It has been given a nation to use as a rod, against its enemies. Israel has many friends in America. The moslem nations would like to separate America and Israel. But they know that it would be imposible. So now the moslems are attacking America. The number of nationals killed in the World Trade Center bombings, is dwarfed by the number of moslems killed since, in America's rage. America is the homeland of more JEWs than live in Israel. The most spoken language of the JEWish people, is english. And they {the JEWs} look and feel just like most Americans do. You see, an American JEW is as American as any American can be. America will stand up for the JEWish people, because it is the homeland of the largest JEWish population in the world. We are them. Now if the moslems know this, you should also. Israel will exist under the wing of America until YHWH finds a preferable way of protecting his people. Can the JEWish people of Israel, be pushed into the sea? Well, Israel has all the girth of America. The moslems may push, but they will only exaust themselves trying. A few more homicide bombings, and Israel will have (all) of the land. We'll just send the Egyption and the Jordanian people home. The arabs already have land in excess, to settle upon. Believe that YHWH will take back what is his. {the land of Israel} And those who have indignation against the holy covenant will be on YHWH's {to do} list. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision. What is YHWH planning to do with these multitudes?

          ....Michael

          Comment


          • #20
            The Holy One!

            Hi Thummim,
            Ps 89:48
            48 What man is he that liveth, and shall not see death? shall he deliver his soul from the hand of the grave? Selah. (KJV)
            Righteousness delivers the righteous man from death:
            Ezek 14:13-14
            13 Son of man, when the land sinneth against me by trespassing grievously, then will I stretch out mine hand upon it, and will break the staff of the bread thereof, and will send famine upon it, and will cut off man and beast from it:
            14 Though these three men, Noah, Daniel, and Job, were in it, they should deliver but their own souls by their righteousness, saith ADONAI ELOHIM. (KJV)

            Ezek 33:12
            12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. (KJV)
            Righteousness also delivers the righteous who suffer death from the grip of the grave:
            Ps 16:10
            10 For thou wilt not leave my soul in hell; neither wilt thou suffer thine Holy One to see corruption. (KJV)

            Ps 86:2
            2 Preserve my soul; for I am holy: O thou my ELOHIM, save thy servant that trusteth in thee. (KJV)

            Ps 34:17
            17 The righteous cry, and YAHWEH heareth, and delivereth them out of all their troubles. (KJV)

            Ps 31:1
            1 In thee, O YAHWEH, do I put my trust; let me never be ashamed: deliver me in thy righteousness. (KJV)
            You and I are living souls. When we die without Messiah, we are dead souls. Our dwelling place is the grave. Our souls melt away in the grave. Without a Messiah to show us the way, we would never again see the light. Messiah Yahushua is the light. The righteous who enter the grave must be redeemed from the grave by righteousness. ELOHIM did redeem the soul of the righteous one from the grave in righteousness (Psalms 49:14-15). This is the work of right hand of YAHWEH through HIS Messiah. This Messiah is Yahushua. Psalm 89 speaks of his work and his suffering and death:
            Ps 89:19
            19 Then thou spakest in vision to thy holy one, and saidst, I have laid help upon one that is mighty; I have exalted one chosen out of the people. (KJV)
            Please notice that YAHWEH does not exalt all JEWS. HE only exalts the HOLY ONE, ONE chosen out of all Israel to be Messiah.

            You are quite correct to reject the Christian Messiah. Christianity and you both teach the same thing about righteousness. Christianity teaches that Jesus made us all righteous by his righteousness irrespective of our ongoing iniquity. You teach that the Jews are all made righteous by the righteousness of YAHWEH irrespective of their ongoing iniquity. So, you both teach a substitutional righteousness. Substitutional righteousness makes void the Covenant.

            I teach and preach Messiah Yahushua who makes us really righteous in truth. I know that you are coming closer to seeing HIM!

            Sincerely, Spying
            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

            Comment


            • #21
              The light of his name.

              The voice said, Cry. And he said, What shall I cry? All flesh is grass, and all the goodliness thereof is as the flower of the field:

              The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: because the spirit of YHWH bloweth upon it: surely the people is grass.

              The grass withereth, the flower fadeth: but the word of our God shall stand for ever. Isa. 40: 6 - 8; 1 Pet. 1: 24, 25

              ...Spying, we all die. Abraham died, Moses died and David died. These things are easy to look up. But these people, as living beings needed salvation from their enemies. Note that the curse of Deut. 28 is only given to flesh. The blessings also, only belong to flesh. One does not save their soul. You haven't shown me anywhere in the tanakh, where a soul is saved. While YHWH pours out his spirit, it is "flesh" that he pours it upon. The {fleshy} world of the tanakh, is very much the same world that we live in. The law is given to flesh, and flesh pays the penalties for breaking it. Changing these rules is a christian endeaver. Christians parcel out heaven, though it is not theirs to divide. YHWH takes his spirit back to himself when the grass fadeth. Whether he replants it, only he knows. The grave only has power over flesh. Nowhere does it say that the spirit of man is buried with its dead body. The grave is not hell.


              Spying posts;

              Ezek 33:12
              12 Therefore, thou son of man, say unto the children of thy people, The righteousness of the righteous shall not deliver him in the day of his transgression: as for the wickedness of the wicked, he shall not fall thereby in the day that he turneth from his wickedness; neither shall the righteous be able to live for his righteousness in the day that he sinneth. (KJV)

              ...To make it clearer;

              1 YHWH shewed me, and, behold, two baskets of figs were set before the temple of YHWH, after that Nebuchadrezzar king of Babylon had carried away captive Jeconiah the son of Jehoiakim king of Judah, and the princes of Judah, with the carpenters and smiths, from Jerusalem, and had brought them to Babylon.

              2 One basket had very good figs, even like the figs that are first ripe: and the other basket had very naughty figs, which could not be eaten, they were so bad.

              3 Then said YHWH unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil.

              4 Again the word of YHWH came unto me, saying,

              5 Thus saith YHWH, the God of Israel; Like these good figs, so will I acknowledge them that are carried away captive of Judah, whom I have sent out of this place into the land of the Chaldeans for their good.

              6 For I will set mine eyes upon them for good, and I will bring them again to this land: and I will build them, and not pull themdown; and I will plant them, and not pluck them up.

              7 And I will give them an heart to know me, that I am YHWH: and they shall be my people, and I will be their God: for they shall return unto me with their whole heart.

              8 And as the evil figs, which cannot be eaten, they are so evil; surely thus saith YHWH, So will I give Zedekiah the king of Judah, and his princes, and the residue of Jerusalem, that remain in this land, and them that dwell in the land of Egypt:

              9 And I will deliver them to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth for their hurt, to be a reproach and a proverb, a taunt and a curse, in all places whither I shall drive them. Jer. 24: 1 - 9

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              ...The righteous are to suffer with the unrighteous. But after all the seed of Israel pays their debt to YHWH, all the seed of Israel becomes righteous to YHWH. In the year of release, he pronounces his people to be forgiven of their tresspasses, and proclaims their righteousness. He also states that he will never again be angry with them. Their salvation is everlasting. {Isa. 45: 17} Though evil comes to this people, it is not by YHWH's will. Those who abuse them, will pay their own debt to YHWH on the day of YHWH {not the day of the LORD!} for mistreating this people. The strength of his name {now lost knowledge} is no longer YaHudaH's to use. There is a kinsman redeemer who owns the red thread of Gen. 38: 28. No one alive {when YaHudaH leaves the captivity of Babylon}, knows what the sacred name is any more. {ref. Ezr. 2: 63, Neh. 7: 65} Until the "one" comes into the world, who can reveal the sacred name to a world suffering from the "gross darkness" that forgetfulness brings, the light of YHWH's name {not the name of jesus} cannot rise upon YHWH's people. YHWH is the light of his people. His glory is his name! This name is the garment of salvation that YaHudaH {all the seed of Israel} will wear, that will also make them a nation of priests. The JEWs bear the name of their Eloheem, but they do not realize it.


              20 If we have forgotten the name of our God, or stretched out our hands to a strange god;

              21 Shall not God search this out? for he knoweth the secrets of the heart.

              22 Yea, for thy {names} sake are we killed all the day long; we are counted as sheep for the slaughter.

              23 Awake, why sleepest thou, O Adonai? arise, cast us not off for ever. Ps. 44: 20 - 23

              ...It's not dificult to understand what I'm trying to teach you. But you have to look at these things through the name of GD. His glory and his light, comes through his name. You also need to learn to date the text.

              ....Michael

              Comment


              • #22
                Multitudes, Multitudes!

                Hi Thummim,

                Good morning to you and yours. Have you not already dated this text (Psalms 44) as applying to the time of Cyrus when YAHWEH for HIS name's sake delivered HIS people from Babylon and made them all righteous? Are you telling me that ADONAI went to sleep again after that great act of Salvation in behalf of his people? It does appear to me that your ELOHIM has gone to sleep many times since Cyrus. Only some fifty years ago, HE went to sleep for the Nazis. Now, fifty years later, I can almost hear HIM snoring as the Moslems do their thing. You Jews continually have need to wake up your ELOHIM from HIS perpetual sleep!

                As I have openly admitted to you, there is a whole lot that I do not know about time, but I do know this because I have lived through it: The age of fifty is the true age of judgment. Israel as a nation turned fifty a short while ago. She is old enough to be accountable to her neighbors and to the world and to Messiah. When ADONAI wakes up this time, will HE approve of the manner in which you JEWS have dealt with the Palestinians? I can only say that I truly wish it were the other way around for all your sake. The JEWS truly know as a people what it is like to be mistreated. It is a shame that they would establish a home in which there is racism, injustice, and discrimination. Now, I see that you desire to build a wall! What need have you of a wall if YAHWEH is your ELOHIM?

                I also notice that you have a big itch to scratch. You can't wait for revenge. You and your fellow JEWS push for the death of millions in the valley of decision. You are thinking and acting in slow motion time, Thummim. How many billions currently live on the face of the earth? Eight, nine? How many of those billions do you hope to punish in the valley of death? Let's say that you have killed us all. Great, now that the deed has been accomplished, do you not know that you are all going to follow us into the grave? Who has won in this scenario? Is not death and the grave the real winner? Catch up in your thinking. When ELOHIM enters into judgment, HE judges all. This judgment occurred two thousand years ago at the Cross when Messiah Yahushua brought all men that have ever lived to the Cross in the spiritual valley of decision. Multitudes upon multitudes. Now, that is a sword!!! Your sword and your revenge are child's play by comparison! Maybe you are not yet old enough for good judgment!

                Sincerely, Spying
                The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                Comment


                • #23
                  Never again angry with his people? {Isa. 54: 9}

                  Spying writes;

                  How many of those billions do you hope to punish in the valley of death?

                  ...Billions punished is christianities way. You are speaking of christianities GD. Of the worlds people, YHWH only punishes those who hate his name or his people. His purpose is manifested through his own people. He defends his family name. He does not condemn the world. He saves his people from their enemies, through the strength of his name. Are "billions" to fit in the valley of decision? It sounds like you have been listening to the christian escotology. Tell me the nations that YHWH has involved himself with, that have nothing to do with his people. {I'm sure that some of them gain mention} What was YHWH's interest in China and many other countries like it, according to the tanakh. YHWH needn't go looking for enemies. The enemies of his name, find his people often enough, to keep him upon their minds. Folded knees abound. You charge YHWH's people of offending him, and so they gain their deserved punishment. But a whole world is bleeding, in case you haven't noticed. When bad things happen to good people, you assume it to be YHWH's will. So all of the bad things that happened to your family, {this is only an example} was the will of YHWH? Does he hurt you, by hurting those you love? You see, if only you would show a little more respect for his name, your family would have been showered with blessings. But you wouldn't please him. Doesn't that make you, the curse of your own family?

                  ...Do you get it? Do not believe that all evil is deserved. Were you asleep when evil came knocking at your families door? We all seem to get our share of the "boogie man". He just shows up. A faith that justifies him as "in YHWH's will", is sorrowful. Yes, the holocaust happened. But if it were the will of my Eloheem, I would then have to find myself another GD, because the Gd that I had been serving, would have fallen lower than me. You see, I serve whats in my heart, always. I am always for those I love, and against those who would harm them.

                  ...For an Eloheem to deliver his people through his name, wouldn't that name have to come to light? I put my trust in my Eloheems name. It is in the wind now. Soon it will fill the whole earth with revelation. With the glory of his name, YHWH will defend his people. YHWH will inquire why so little respect was shown to his name, by those who claimed to serve it.

                  ...When YHWH stood in the ovens with his people, his friends proved themselves. They didn't show up to support their friendship. So YaHudaH suffered alone, with only the fewest of his friends to help him. Now he will teach the world his name!

                  ...Could a people be righteous, without an atonement for intentional sin, unless YHWH was their righteousness? But for his own sake, all the seed of Israel is righteous. If {jesus} was the messiah, he would have shown his people to be righteous, by his knowledge. He would have interceded for his people. But he had no reward for them. Instead like Absalom, he wanted his fathers throne. It's not to the firstborn that victory belongs, but to he whom YHWH chooses.


                  For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. Isa. 63: 4

                  ...The day of vengeance = The year of redemption

                  ---> try puting these things together during the time of the Romans.



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                  A prayer of Moses. The first and last verse.

                  YHWH, thou hast been (**our dwelling place in all generations**). Ps. 90: 1


                  And let (**the beauty of YHWH Elohenu be upon us**): and establish thou the work of our hands upon us; yea, the work of our hands establish thou it. Ps. 90: 17

                  ...Baruch Hashem,

                  ....Michael

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Why Take His Covenant On Your Lips?

                    Hi Thummim,

                    Good Sabbath to you and yours! Why would I devote a whole post attacking your need to assemble multitudes in the valley of decision if I believed that this event still should occur? That you yourself believe that it should occur is evident from these words:
                    Believe that YHWH will take back what is his. {the land of Israel} And those who have indignation against the holy covenant will be on YHWH's {to do} list. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision. What is YHWH planning to do with these multitudes?
                    Indeed, Thummim, it is you that are following the traditional thinking about the Jews and the Land of Israel. You think that they are ELOHIM'S chosen people, the wife of YAHWEH ELOHIM. You think that they have ELOHIM'S name. You think that they are righteous simply for the sake of their physical name and your belief that YAHWEH has declared them righteous. In other words, you think that they still have an intimate relationship with YAHWEH despite their uncleanness and all their wickedness.

                    When I quote the terms of the covenant to you, all those things that the Jew needs to do in order to fulfill the covenant, you say that it does not matter; you say that YAHWEH has declared them all righteous. When I tell you that they should treat the Palestinians fairly and with respect, you then quote the terms of the covenant to me as if the terms of the covenant now somehow matter. Why should you and the Jews take the covenant on your lips and determine to fight for the Land and follow the covenant and dispossess all the inhabitants of the Land if you are indeed righteous without doing so? According to your own reasoning, Thummim, you have argued over and over that a Jew is righteous without fulfilling righteousness. Since you do not of necessity need to fight and dispossess the Palestinians, then why are you doing just that? What is your motive and justification for killing and dispossessing the inhabitants of the Land? What is your motive for stealing their Land and destroying their families and homes?

                    I have intimated above a possible motive. You seem hell bent on revenge. You seem to want all other people degraded through exaltation of the Jews. Indeed, you place those who disagree with Jews on YAHWEH'S hit list. Well, I disagree with you. I think that it is a shame how the nation of Israel has treated the Palestinian. It is their land that the Jews are taking. If the Osage Indians suddenly appeared in Ellisville in a war party claiming my home and land as their ancestral right, I would fight if I felt that I had a chance to protect my family and win. If I didn't think I had a chance to win, I would run with my family seeking a place of refuge, but I would always be seeking the opportunity to return to Ellisville and take again possession of my home as long as I remained alive. The Palestinians are in this exact position. I do not blame them one bit for fighting in any way they can. I view the Palestinians differently than I view the Saudis and other terrorists like Mr. Bin Lauden. As far as I am concerned, the Palestinians are patriots fighting for their way of life and their land.

                    I have told you over and over that the Land and the world belongs to my Messiah and his friend, Abraham! Messiah has graciously made me a part of HIMSELF so I also graciously have title to the physical land of Israel. I don't mind the Jews living in my Land as long as they behave themselves and treat the Palestinians fairly. My ADONAI is very patient. He will give the Jews every opportunity to get their act together, but ultimately Messiah will hold them accountable for their actions.

                    Sincerely, Spying
                    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Vengeance=Redemption!

                      Hi Thummim,
                      For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. Isa. 63: 4

                      ...The day of vengeance = The year of redemption

                      ---> try puting these things together during the time of the Romans.
                      The Cross is the short work that YAHWEH ELOHIM made of the whole earth in one day. This is the great day of slaughter. This is the day of revenge. I know, YAHWEH ELOHIM has a strange sense of vengeance, does HE not? Messiah was able, through the inner workings of the Law of Sacrifice and our sin, Messiah was able to kill us all on that day. If all have died through the law, then YAHWEH has HIS revenge. I know, it is a short and swift work. Multitudes, multitudes in the valley of decision:
                      Isa 42:4
                      4 He shall not fail nor be discouraged, till he have set judgment in the earth: and the isles shall wait for his law. (KJV)
                      This is also a day of redemption in a number of areas. YAHWEH ELOHIM gave HIS spirit to mankind with the creation of Adam and Eve. We each were designated our portion at that time. This is how YAHWEH knows us all. HE knows us because it is HIS spirit that is in us all. When YAHWEH placed HIS spirit within flesh, and man became a living soul, the spirits of Adam and Eve were made subject to their flesh. What I mean by that is simply this: A living soul, spirit in flesh, has a whole host of needs that require satisfaction. We get hungry. We get lonely. We must sleep. We desire sex, etc! The desires of the flesh at this point rule over the spirit.

                      Now, it makes no difference to me whether this subjection of the spirit to flesh is viewed as YAHWEH selling mankind into sin or whether we sold ourselves into sin. Either way, we have the same problem. We have need of redemption. Our spirits need to be redeemed from sin. In the physical, this occurs naturally when we die. The living soul dies, and the spirit is released. YAHWEH ELOHIM set this process in motion by giving Adam and Eve a commandment. I tend to view this as a selling into sin. Without a commandment, sin exists, but there is no release from sin. Our physical death is a release from sin. At our death, sin is paid his wage or price.

                      Now what happens if YAHWEH ELOHIM is able through the Law and the work of HIS Servant, the Messiah, now, what happens if YAHWEH is able to bring to pass the death of all of us in one day? If this has already occurred, then our spirits have already been redeemed from sin, have they not? In a mystical or spiritual sense, our spirits have been released from our prison (our bodies of sin) to go back to YAHWEH ELOHIM. Thus, at the same time that we are made free, redeemed from sin, YAHWEH ELOHIM has paid the price, the death of us all, to buy back all of HIS spirit, and a new creature is now in the process of being born at the great shout:
                      Lev 23:24
                      24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets (This is really a memorial of shouting at the creation of man, and the creation of the new man.), an holy convocation. (KJV)

                      Mark 15:37
                      37 And Yahushua cried with a loud voice, and gave up the ghost. (KJV)
                      So, through the Cross the whole earth was redeemed from sin, and the whole earth is given opportunity to enter into Sabbath, to enter into rest from sin, a holy convocation. For the Elect, we get the great opportunity to enter this rest during our physical lives on this earth. For the rest of mankind, it will happen tomorrow. It is only a matter of revelation in time.

                      Now, Thummim, whether you can see this or not, this is all the operation of the righteousness of YAHWEH ELOHIM!

                      Sincerely, Spying
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        The new Philistines?

                        Spying writes;

                        In other words, you think that they still have an intimate relationship with YAHWEH despite their uncleanness and all their wickedness.

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                        ...Spying, how does one become righteous? One cannot become righteous through the Levitical law. It does not cover "presumptuous" sins. There is no atonement for the intentional sin.

                        But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth YHWH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. Nu. 15: 30

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                        5 Now therefore, if ye will obey my voice indeed, and keep my covenant, then ye shall be a peculiar treasure unto me above all people: for all the earth is mine:

                        6 And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

                        --> If this people is to be a nation of priests, they must also be righteous. Isn't this what a holy nation is? But who can make the people righteous? It can't be done by any atoneing for their "intentional" sin. The peoples righteousness must come from their Eloheem. Not by atonement, but

                        ...by the proclamation of YHWH

                        25 I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions for mine own sake, and will not remember thy sins.

                        ...by the law of YHWH

                        2 To proclaim the (**acceptable year --> the year of release**) of YHWH, and the day of vengeance of our God; to comfort all that mourn; Isa. 61: 2

                        ...for his name sake

                        9 For my name's sake will I defer mine anger, and for my praise will I refrain for thee, that I cut thee not off. Isa. 48: 9

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                        Why does YHWH set all his servants free?

                        ...Because the "Hebrew" servant was not set free, YHWH will imprison all, but after their sentence is served, he will release them "forever". He will never again be wroth with them. {Isa. 54: 9} All the seed of Israel is found "righteous*" and saved with an "everlasting salvation*". {*Isa. 45: 17, *Isa. 60: 21}

                        8 This is the word that came unto Jeremiah from YHWH, after that the king Zedekiah had made a covenant with all the people which were at Jerusalem, to proclaim liberty unto them;

                        9 That every man should let his manservant, and every man his maidservant, being an Hebrew or an Hebrewess, go free; that none should serve himself of them, to wit, of a Jew his brother.

                        10 Now when all the princes, and all the people, which had entered into the covenant, heard that every one should let his manservant, and every one his maidservant, go free, that none should serve themselves of them any more, then they obeyed, and let them go.

                        11 But afterward they turned, and caused the servants and the handmaids, whom they had let go free, to return, and brought them into subjection for servants and for handmaids.

                        12 Therefore the word of YHWH came to Jeremiah from YHWH, saying,

                        13 Thus saith YHWH, the God of Israel; I made a covenant with your fathers in the day that I brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondmen, saying,

                        14 At the end of seven years let ye go every man his brother an Hebrew, which hath been sold unto thee; and when he hath served thee six years, thou shalt let him go free from thee: but your fathers hearkened not unto me, neither inclined their ear.

                        15 And ye were now turned, and had done right in my sight, in proclaiming liberty every man to his neighbour; and ye had made a covenant before me in the house which is (**called by my name**):

                        16 But ye turned and (**polluted my name**) {by refusing to let the servants of YHWH go free} , and caused every man his servant, and every man his handmaid, whom he had set at liberty at their pleasure, to return, and brought them into subjection, to be unto you for servants and for handmaids.

                        17 Therefore thus saith YHWH; Ye have not hearkened unto me, in proclaiming liberty, every one to his brother, and every man to his neighbour: behold, I proclaim a liberty for you, saith YHWH, to the sword, to the pestilence, and to the famine; and I will make you to be removed into all the kingdoms of the earth. Jer. 34: 8 - 17

                        --> Unlike the leaders of his people, YHWH shall release "all" of his servants, in his year of release. Their righteousness is of him.

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                        Refusing to possess the land = wondering in the desert for fourty years?

                        ...Can this people keep their covenant with their Eloheem, if they refuse to take possession of the land of Israel?

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                        Speak unto the children of Israel, and say unto them, When ye are passed over Jordan into the land of Canaan;

                        Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

                        And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it. Nu. 33: 51 - 53

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                        ...What is obedience? Shall the people dispossess the inhabitants of the land, or should they refuse this covenant, and go back to Egypt? YHWH made his covenant with a single people. There is no "Palestinian" covenant with YHWH. When David faced the Philistines in battle, you Spying, were hoping for a Philistine victory. David couldn't treat the Philistines fairly, and with respect. They would have killed him and all his people, little ones included.

                        ...We make choices. You have shown your indignation against the holy covenant and its peoples. GD didn't write the tanakh. The JEWish people did. The authors name is on it. It is YaHudaH. Why do you want to build your faith on JEWish land? The Moslems have their own book. You might find your own faith in it. There has never been a Palestinian state. I hope there never is. Statehood only means that this people will be able to aquire weapons in mass, to be able to more eficiently kill JEWs with them. Israel must have defensible borders, and the strength to resist their enemies. The Palestinians are the people who resisted a JEWish state, from the beginning. Now they are asking for a Palestinian state.

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                        8 But ye, O mountains of Israel, ye shall shoot forth your branches, and yield your fruit to my people of Israel; for they are at hand to come.

                        9 For, behold, I am for you, and I will turn unto you, and ye shall be tilled and sown:

                        10 And I will multiply men upon you, all the house of Israel, even all of it: and the cities shall be inhabited, and the wastes shall be builded:

                        11 And I will multiply upon you man and beast; and they shall increase and bring fruit: and I will settle you after your old estates, and will do better unto you than at your beginnings: and ye shall know that "I am YHWH".

                        12 Yea, I will cause men to walk upon you, even my people Israel; and they shall possess thee, (**and thou shalt be their inheritance**), and thou shalt no more henceforth bereave them of men.

                        13 Thus saith Adonai Elohenu; Because they say unto you, Thou land devourest up men, and hast bereaved thy nations;

                        14 Therefore thou shalt devour men no more, neither bereave thy nations any more, saith Adonai Elohenu.

                        15 Neither will I cause men to hear in thee the shame {that comes} of the heathen any more, neither shalt thou bear the reproach of the people any more, neither shalt thou cause thy nations {of Israel} to fall any more, saith Adonai Elohenu. Eze. 36: 8 - 15

                        ....Michael

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The Righteousness Of YAHWEH ELOHIM!

                          Hi Thummim,

                          This is a true statement, and I dearly wish that you could grow to accept the truth of it: Righteousness can only come through the performance of righteousness. The individual who is righteous is the individual who has done as YAHWEH ELOHIM has commanded.

                          For each commandment of YAHWEH, there exists two fulfillments. These fulfillments are the physical fulfillment and the spiritual fulfillment. Let's use the Sabbath Commandment as an example. I physically fulfill the Sabbath Commandment when I rest from my physical work on Saturday and when I assemble or convoke with the brethren on the Sabbath Day. When I do these things, I have the righteousness that comes by doing what is right.

                          Now, the Sabbath Commandment also has a spiritual fulfillment. This fulfillment looks forward to the day in which the whole world will cease or rest from sin and enter into holy convocation. This takes place during the Seventh Millennium or on the Seventh Spiritual Day!

                          Notice that one cannot enter into the keeping of the spiritual Sabbath without resting from physically breaking the Sabbath. So, at some point in time, all men including all Jews will make the decision to physically keep the Sabbath Day in order to enjoy fellowship with all the holy ones.

                          I make the above assertion because all men who have ever lived will be resurrected by Messiah Yahushua, and they all will be given the opportunity to repent of all their sins, of all their iniquities, and of all their transgressions at that point. However, some will decide to continue in their rebellion.

                          Now, there is another way that mankind can indeed rest from Sabbath breaking. A Jew is not required to physically keep the Sabbath Day after death. Indeed, no one who has died is required to physically keep the Law in the grave. A dead soul melting away in the grave cannot keep the law on their own volition. So, a dead soul has entered into a rest from sin, and a dead soul qualifies for the holy assembly on the Seventh Spiritual Day. So, in order to ultimately live, it is important for each of us that we die.

                          This is the primary reason that the Law was given to Israel. The Law was given to ensure the death of us all while at the same time holding forth the promise of life to all of us. Deep down within yourself, you know that this is true.

                          Now, in the same manner, all the commands and requirements concerning sacrifice have dual fulfillments. I can either physically fulfill or spiritually fulfill the commandment to sacrifice. Eternal life demands that I accomplish every commandment. I have no choice, if I desire life, but to sacrifice. I can ignore no commandment.

                          Now, the spiritual fulfillment of sacrifice is the righteousness that YAHWEH ELOHIM gives to us through the work of HIS Messiah and HOLY ONE, Yahushua. So, when you read Isaiah, and you notice that YAHWEH declares HIS people righteous, you are right. HE does! But YAHWEH is able to do so because HE has worked behind the scenes beyond your vision and hearing to give to you and me the ability to spiritually sacrifice. When we are able to do what YAHWEH has commanded, we are righteous. We have righteousness.

                          Now, here is the paradox, here is the irony of what I am so poorly attempting to relate to you. It is through physically breaking the Law, it is through our sin that we spiritually sacrifice and acquire this righteousness. I know that this makes absolutely no sense, but it is the salvation that YAHWEH has provided for each and every one of us through the work of Messiah Yahushua. Thus, in the realm of spiritual fulfillment, we become righteous through our sin! All men have sinned, so all men are righteous. Now, if there is a physical death, and there is, there must of necessity also exist a spiritual death. This spiritual death is given to all sinners through the Cross of Messiah Yahushua. So, as far as YAHWEH is concerned, that is according to HIS thinking or reasoning, all who do now physcially live have entered into spiritual death or rest through the Cross. Those who are made aware of this death while they are living in this present world are indeed blessed. Thank you, Messiah Yahushua!

                          I am praying for you, Thummim, that Messiah open your eyes and ears. I personally like and respect you, and I desire to convoke with you for an eternity!

                          Sincerely, Spying
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Streaching the law.

                            Spying writes;

                            Notice that one cannot enter into the keeping of the spiritual Sabbath without resting from physically breaking the Sabbath. So, at some point in time, all men including all Jews will make the decision to physically keep the Sabbath Day in order to enjoy fellowship with all the holy ones.

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                            Streaching the law.

                            And there assembled at Jerusalem much people to keep the feast of unleavened bread in the second month, a very great congregation.

                            And they arose and took away the altars that were in Jerusalem, and all the altars for incense took they away, and cast them into the brook Kidron.

                            Then they killed the passover on the fourteenth day of the "second month": and the priests and the Levites were ashamed, and sanctified themselves, and brought in the burnt offerings into the house of YHWH.

                            And they stood in their place after their manner, according to the law of Moses the man of God: the priests sprinkled the blood, which they received of the hand of the Levites.

                            For there were many in the congregation that were not sanctified: therefore the Levites had the charge of the killing of the passovers for every one that was not clean, to sanctify them unto YHWH.

                            For a multitude of the people, even many of Ephraim, and Manasseh, Issachar, and Zebulun, had not cleansed themselves, yet did they eat the passover otherwise than it was written. But Hezekiah prayed for them, saying, The good YHWH pardon every one

                            That prepareth his heart to seek God, YHWH God of his fathers, though he be not cleansed according to the purification of the sanctuary.

                            And YHWH hearkened to Hezekiah, and healed the people. II Chr. 30: 15 - 20


                            And in the fourteenth day of the "first month" is the passover of YHWH.

                            And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten. Nu. 28: 16, 17



                            ...The law of YHWH is not immovable. Righteousness is more than keeping the law. Unless one is esteemed as righteous by YHWH, he {or she} is not. Note that their is no declaration of righteousness for any other people, than YHWH's own people. Not even the people of Ninevah, are declared righteous by YHWH. While they repent from their violence, they are not a righteous people. But YHWH declares his own people righteous. An unrighteous people become righteous, through the determination of their own Eloheem. You may think that you are a righteous person, but unless YHWH thinks that you are a righteous person, you are not so. Since there is no atonement for intentional sin, it is only commmuted through YHWH's cancellation of the transgression.

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                            ...Manasseh did great evil in the eyes of YHWH. But YHWH still heard his prayer. He can hear the prayers of an unrighteous man.


                            10 And YHWH spake to Manasseh, and to his people: but they would not hearken.

                            11 Wherefore YHWH brought upon them the captains of the host of the king of Assyria, which took Manasseh among the thorns, and bound him with fetters, and carried him to Babylon.

                            12 And when he was in affliction, he besought YHWH his God, and humbled himself greatly before the God of his fathers,

                            13 And prayed unto him: and he was entreated of him, and heard his supplication, and brought him again to Jerusalem into his kingdom. Then Manasseh knew that YHWH he was God. II Chr. 33: 10 - 13

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                            ...Was there any atonement for Manasseh's trangression against his Eloheem? But YHWH heard his prayer and returned him to his throne in Jerusalem. This is intentional sin being dealt with by YHWH. How can a whole people be esteemed as righteous by YHWH? Isn't there always someone who is in violation of YHWH's will, at all times? But the people become "all" righteous when YHWH esteems his people as a righteous people. He declares it so. Sin, or not, YHWH's people are righteous when YHWH no longer holds them guilty, of a debt of sin. He declared his people righteous, and without sin, "for his own sake".


                            Spying writes;

                            Now, the spiritual fulfillment of sacrifice is the righteousness that YAHWEH ELOHIM gives to us through the work of HIS Messiah and HOLY ONE, Yahushua. So, when you read Isaiah, and you notice that YAHWEH declares HIS people righteous, you are right. HE does! But YAHWEH is able to do so because HE has worked behind the scenes beyond your vision and hearing to give to you and me the ability to spiritually sacrifice. When we are able to do what YAHWEH has commanded, we are righteous. We have righteousness.

                            ...No atonement is needed for intentional sin. The forgivness of YHWH is required. No sacrifice is desired by YHWH for intentional sin. The righteousness of YHWH's people, comes from their own Eloheem. This is years before {jesus} was crucified. Years before his slaughter and promotion to godhood. A spiritual sacrifice might do for unintentional spiritual sin, but would do nothing for the intended spiritual failure of a person. Since {jesus} did not make intercession for his people, and did not make them "all" righteous by his knowledge, he cannot be the servant of Isa. 53. That you now see YHWH's people as being righteous by his own declaration, is a big step for you. YHWH's righteous people have held many sinners in the written accounts of them. These people are only righteous, because YHWH made it so. {perhaps we come to a vague agreement here} No amount of keeping the law perfectly, would have made them righteous. The failure in a whole people, of perfection, is inevitable. I'm not saying that a person can snub their nose at YHWH's law. His law is his will. But it is only by YHWH's own esteem, that a people can be righteous. There is not any other righteous people that I can think of, declared so, in the tanakh. Likely the righteousness of the JEWish people, has everything to do with this people being connected to YHWH, through his own name.

                            ....Michael

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Righteous Jews?

                              Hi Thummim,

                              Good day to you and yours. YAHWEH ELOHIM can forgive anyone any time any place! This YAHWEH has done, and this YAHWEH will do. YAHWEH even forgives without repentance, and YAHWEH can forgive intentional sin. There are some circumstances in which YAHWEH is required to forgive. These are detailed in the Law.

                              Now, atonement is different than forgiveness. Atonement in my mind is the making up for one's sin. It involves repentance from sin. It involves making amends. I don't think that atonement can be made except in a lawful manner, that is, through doing what is right. This is true of sanctification also. Both atonement and sanctification are functions of the Law. In other words, the Law says that if we do this or that, then we atone, then we are clean, then we are holy. Death atones for sin, but death makes us unclean. Life and resurrection is a sure sign that one is clean.

                              The Jews who came forth from Babylon were righteous because they had made atonement for their sin through their captivity. Sinners died in the captivity and through their suffering and the suffering of the living, the wrath of YAHWEH was abated. Through their suffering, the Jews of that day learned to do what was right. So, they were righteous. This does not mean that they never sinned again. Here, is my point about their righteousness: They all died, didn't they? And not one of them has arose from the dead. So, their deaths prove that in the final analysis that they were sinners, and not righteous as you say. They were all required to make atonement for their sin.

                              All men die, so all men make atonement. Since Messiah Yahushua, all Jews have died. They are all unclean. Show me the grave of one Jew which I can touch and remain clean. Show me the dead body of one Jew that I can handle and remain clean. Death defiles. So, the declaration of righteousness in which you place your trust will not save you from death, and it does not save you from the defilement of death. In my mind, righteousness should be able to deliver the righteous Jew from death or, at the very least, make the righteous Jew again alive, should he happen to suffer death. Do you say that you know some righteous Jews, Thummim?

                              Sincerely, Spying
                              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                All Sins Are Forgiven!

                                Hi Thummim,

                                Messiah said:
                                Mark 3:28-30
                                28 Verily I say unto you, All sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and blasphemies wherewith soever they shall blaspheme:
                                29 But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost hath never forgiveness, but is in danger of eternal damnation:
                                30 Because they said, He hath an unclean spirit. (KJV)
                                All sins include those that are intentional and deliberate. Messiah also said:
                                Luke 23:34
                                34 Then said Yahushua, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots. (KJV)
                                In the spiritual fulfillment of the Law, all sin, including deliberate sin, caused the death of Messiah Yahushua. "All sins" includes all the sin of those who lived and died before the Cross of Messiah. "All sins" includes the sin of all who have lived and died since the Cross of Messiah. "All sins" includes all my sin, and it includes all your sin. All of this sin caused the death of the HOLY ONE. This murder is forgiving by YAHWEH ELOHIM because none of us as deliberate sinners knew that our sin was actually killing an innocent man. I simply had no awareness of the actual cost of my sinful activity.

                                So, in the spiritual realm of YAHWEH ELOHIM, I was allowed to bring my sacrifice, Yahushua Messiah, through my deliberate sin. Having brought this sacrifice, I automatically have the righteousness that comes to those who accomplish what the Law commands. However, if I should ever be made aware of this righteousness, the true consequence of my sin, and if I should deliberately choose to continue in my sin regardless of the consequences to Messiah, then I have am in danger of eternal damnation. I cannot strike the ROCK twice. This is the judgment of the world that Messiah has placed in the world. The ELECT are those that are made aware of this judgment. This is why we repent, and this is why we are saved from our sin because we know that this judgment is true. This is a significant part of the faith and knowledge of Messiah Yahushua by which he saves the world, both Jew and Gentile, and by which we are made righteous.

                                I know one Jew who died and does now live again. His name is Yahushua. I don't know Hebrew, but I think that this name has something to do with our salvation?

                                Sincerely, Spying
                                The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                                Comment

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