No announcement yet.

Are we agreed that (all) Israel is already righteous by decree of YHWH?

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • Are we agreed that (all) Israel is already righteous by decree of YHWH?

    I need to post a reply of mine, for discussion.

    ...Are we agreed, that (all) israel has been deemed "righteous" by their Eloheem, saved with an everlasting righteousness upon leaving the captivity of Babylon? Let me try to make the decree of YHWH, simple.

    17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Isa. 45: 17 {this paragraph of text is still in the same paragraph as Isa. 45: 1 which names Cyrus the messiah.}

    ...The following two verses of text both lock this time to Cyrus.


    28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isa. 44: 28

    13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts. Isa. 45: 13


    ...That the remission of all sin has occured is stated in the following verse;

    22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. Isa. 44: 22

    ...Isaiah expands upon the theme of the everlasting righteousness of his people which belongs to this time. {that of Cyrus}

    ...The author explains the righteousness of (all) Israel in the latter verses of Isaiah's 45th chapter.

    23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    24 Surely, shall one say, in YHWH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

    25 In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa. 45: 23 - 25

    ...What is sworn, but that (all) Israel is righteous? {verse 24} The following verse of text {vs. 25} declares, "In YHWH, (all) the seed of Israel is righteous". (justified = tzadeku = righteous) YHWH confirms this in verse 17 of Isaiah's 54th chapter.

    17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and (**every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn {those who accuse Israel of guilt}**). This is the heritage of the servants of YHWH, and (**their righteousness is of me**), saith YHWH. Isa. 54: 17

    ...Now you know that (all) Israel is to be found righteous. But then, didn't YHWH find his people (all) righteous in the time of Cyrus, his anointed one, Isa. 45: 1 {messiah}? Most christians abhor calling the JEWish people, righteous. But YHWH has declared them to be so. Read this material and answer me. Have the JEWish people a decree of righteousness {unto the end of the world {world without end}? Forget that you are a christian for a moment, and declare (all) Israel to be righteous.


  • #2
    Righteousness Is Obedience!

    Hi Thummim,

    Absolutely not!
    Deut 6:24-25
    24 And YAHWEH commanded us to do all these statutes, to fear YAHWEH our ELOHIM, for our good always, that he might preserve us alive, as it is at this day.
    25 And it shall be our righteousness, if we observe to do all these commandments before YAHWEH our ELOHIM, as he hath commanded us. (KJV)
    Clearly, one can only have righteousness through obedience to the commandments of YAHWEH ELOHIM, and YAHWEH will not make a decree against HIS own righteousness:
    Ps 119:142
    142 Thy righteousness is an everlasting righteousness, and thy law is the truth. (KJV)

    Ps 33:5
    5 He loveth righteousness and judgment: the earth is full of the goodness of YAHWEH. (KJV)

    Ps 103:6-7
    6 YAHWEH executeth righteousness and judgment for all that are oppressed. (This would include poor and destitute Arabs, would it not?)
    7 He made known his ways unto Moses, his acts unto the children of Israel. (KJV)

    Ps 11:7
    7 For the righteous YAHWEH loveth righteousness; his countenance doth behold the upright. (KJV)

    Ps 145:17
    17 YAHWEH is righteous in all his ways, and holy in all his works. (KJV)
    YAHWEH ELOHIM does not (normally) act contrary to HIS own Law. Indeed, we ourselves cannot add or delete from the Torah:
    Deut 4:2
    2 Ye shall not add unto the word which I command you, neither shall ye diminish ought from it, that ye may keep the commandments of YAHWEH your ELOHIM which I command you. (KJV)
    Of course, Moses warns against the dreamer or prophet who may come preaching and teaching that Israel need not walk in righteousness:
    Deut 13:3-5
    3 Thou shalt not hearken unto the words of that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams: for YAHWEH your ELOHIM proveth you, to know whether ye love YAHWEH your ELOHIM with all your heart and with all your soul.
    4 Ye shall walk after YAHWEH your ELOHIM, and fear him, and keep his commandments, and obey his voice, and ye shall serve him, and cleave unto him.
    5 And that prophet, or that dreamer of dreams, shall be put to death; because he hath spoken to turn you away from YAHWEH your ELOHIM, which brought you out of the land of Egypt, and redeemed you out of the house of bondage, to thrust thee out of the way which YAHWEH thy ELOHIM commanded thee to walk in. So shalt thou put the evil away from the midst of thee. (KJV)
    You make YAHWEH ELOHIM appear very silly when you claim that HE will reckon sinners righteous, or that YAHWEH will HIMSELF become the righteousness of a worker of iniquity while that worker of iniquity remains in his iniquity. This is a Christian concept that you bring to this table. I appeal to you to stand by YAHWEH ELOHIM as did Moses:
    Deut 5:31-6:1
    31 But as for thee, stand thou here by me, and I will speak unto thee all the commandments, and the statutes, and the judgments, which thou shalt teach them, that they may do them in the land which I give them to possess it.
    32 Ye shall observe to do therefore as YAHWEH your ELOHIM hath commanded you: ye shall not turn aside to the right hand or to the left.
    33 Ye shall walk in all the ways which YAHWEH your ELOHIM hath commanded you, that ye may live, and that it may be well with you, and that ye may prolong your days in the land which ye shall possess. (KJV)
    So, Thummim, it may very well be that YAHWEH did have a plan to actually make the Yahudim and all Israel righteous that is thoroughly in conformity with His eternal Torah, but that plan must be according to HIS righteousness! Righteousness demands it! We, after all this time, are just now beginning to approach Torah!

    Sincerely, Spying
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


    • #3
      Those whom YHWH calls righteous, are righteous!

      ...Spying, what decree of YHWH's, of his peoples righteousness, would you except? You are telling him, that contrary to his statement of his peoples everlasting salvation, which includes his decree of the sinlessness of his people, {Isa. 44: 22}, that they are not righteous as YHWH declares them to be? You are really sticking your neck out on this one. For how shall you claim any righteousness for yourself, if you will not except YHWH's decree of his peoples righteousness, by him?


      24 Surely, shall one say, (**in YHWH have I righteousness**) and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed. Isa. 45: 24

      17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. --> {This is the heritage of the servants of YHWH}, and (**their righteousness is of me**), saith YHWH. Isa. 54: 17


      ...YHWH claims that his peoples righteousness is of him. His people also declare that they have righteousness in their Eloheem. Further, the author states that (all) the seed of Israel shall be found righteous in multiple places in his text, as well as stating that YHWH will never be wroth with his people, ever again. Is the author assuming that the people will never again sin? Or is he assuming that the people's righteousness will go beyond their transgressions? If YHWH were to hold his people as righteous, wouldn't they be?

      ...So, what is (**everlasting salvation, world without end**), to you? If you had a child who had trespassed against you, but you had punished him already, and forgiven his trespass, but another who had offended you from outside your house, whose trespass you had also forgiven, wouldn't forgive the transgressions of your own child, but insisted that he pay his debt to you, again and again, would you have second thoughts about his own transgression against you? Israel paid their debt to their Eloheem in Babylon. YHWH said after this, his people would be (all) righteous, saved with an eternal salvation. And you think that you have some right to accuse YHWH's people of their past transgressions? When he has acquitted them, why should your judgement anole YHWH's own judgement of his people's righteousness?

      20 For the terrible one is brought to nought, and the scorner is consumed, and (**all that watch for iniquity are cut off**):

      21 (**That make a man an offender for a word**), and lay a snare for him that reproveth in the gate, and (**turn aside the just for a thing of nought**). {a debt already paid}

      22 Therefore thus saith YHWH, who redeemed Abraham, concerning the house of Jacob, (**Jacob shall not now be ashamed**), neither shall his face now wax pale.

      23 But when he seeth his children, the work of mine hands, in the midst of him, (**they shall sanctify my name**), and sanctify the Holy One of Jacob, and shall fear the God of Israel.

      24 (**They also that erred in spirit shall come to understanding**), and they that murmured shall learn doctrine. Isa. 29: 20 - 24


      8 Wilt thou also disannul my judgment? wilt thou condemn me, that thou mayest be righteous? Job: 40: 8



      • #4
        Cursed With A Curse!

        Hi Thummim,

        You know full well that I do not believe in substitutional righteousness. If YAHWEH ELOHIM blots out the sin of anyone, then that sin will disappear in the life of the sinner. With the blotting out, the sinner becomes a saint. The sinner will no longer engage in iniquity. The saint does now perform righteousness. Hence, the imperative and opportunity:
        Return To ME.
        YAHWEH will not dwell with sinners. Those who live in iniquity will not see the face of YAHWEH.

        So, I do not believe in an everlasting blanket pardon for all Jews for all time at the time Cyrus. If this was so, then the Jews would now be performing righteousness, and the Yahudim would not have had any need to reestablish the Altar and sacrifice as they did when they returned to Jerusalem. Even today, every observant Jew rejects your idea of a blanket pardon whenever they confess their sins and made amends for those sins between Trumpets and Atonement. If the Jews should today reestablish the physical Altar and the sin offerings, then they clearly would again be rejecting your idea of a forever blanket pardon!

        I think however that your concept of a forever blanket pardon given at the time of Cyrus is best defeated by the word of YAHWEH HIMSELF:
        Mal 3:9
        9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV)
        How can YAHWEH bless the Jews for all time blotting out their sins, and then in the next breath curse them for their sin?

        Sincerely, Spying
        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


        • #5
          YHWH, who makes them righteous!

          ...Spying, the question is one of righteousness. Can a righteous people sin? Did Moses and Aaron sin? YHWH makes his people righteous forever, because he is righteous. He is his people's righteousness. In lew of a temple and a working priesthood, can he still grant his people, righteousness? Can he cast their sins into the depth of the sea, and remember them no more? His people do dwell with him, even now. They inhabit his name as well.

          Dwelling with a righteous people?

          34 Defile not therefore the land which ye shall inhabit, wherein I dwell: for (**I YHWH dwell among the children of Israel**). Nu. 35: 34

          45 And (**I will dwell among the children of Israel**), and will be their God.

          46 And they shall know that I am YHWH their God, that brought them forth out of the land of Egypt, that (**I may dwell among them**): I am YHWH their God. Ex. 29: 45: 46

          16 In those days shall Judah be saved, and Jerusalem shall dwell safely: and this is the name wherewith she shall be called, (**YHWH our righteousness**). Jer. 33: 15

          ...Spying writes;

          So, I do not believe in an everlasting blanket pardon for all Jews for all time at the time Cyrus. If this was so, then the Jews would now be performing righteousness,


          ...Why do you believe that JEW's are not performing righteousness in their lives? How many of the heathen please YHWH? If you can account righteousness to the heathen, why not to YHWH's people, whom are attached to him through his name? {Nu. 6: 27} You have a flaw in your thinking. Need righteousness be perfect? In what degree must sin be entered into, before it taints ones righteousness? When an offering for Israel's sin was made upon the altar, wasn't it for (all) Israel? {all unintentional sin} In the same way, a blanket pardon was granted (all) Israel. If an individual intentionally sinned, was (all) Israel than Guilty? Then to, since all sin offerings were only for unintentional sin, how were intentional sins dealt with?

          30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously {on purpose}, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth YHWH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people. {unless he has YHWH's personal pardon}

          31 Because he hath despised the word of YHWH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; (**his iniquity shall be upon him {only}**). Nu. 15: 30, 31

          12 And the man that will do presumptuously, and will not hearken unto the priest that standeth to minister there before YHWH thy God, or unto the judge, even that man shall die: and (**thou shalt put away the evil from Israel**).

          13 And all the people shall hear, and fear, and (**do no more presumptuously {no more intentional sins}**). Deut. 17: 12, 13

          ...Since only unintentional sin is covered by the priesthood, then intentional sin can only be covered by YHWH. Intentional sin is separated from Israel by YHWH, and by removal of the offender, from the peoples. How has YHWH done anything differently in redeeming his people from their transgressions? He has cleared any debt of the past transgressions of his people, by his declaration of their righteousness. This in the time of Cyrus. (All) Israel being righteous, forever with YHWH never again being angry with his people, must somehow be in error to you. And yet, this is the faith of the author of Isaiah fifty-three. He does refer to (all) of his people being served by this chapters ideas. Of Malachi's reference to cheating on the agricultural offerings made to YHWH, is this proclamation of a curse against (all) Israel? Do you believe that (all) Israel cheated? (--> See how easily you curse GD's people) The author writes of those who use a short measure upon their Eloheem. (All) of Israel isn't being cursed, as you suppose. Only the offenders. You think like someone who hates YHWH's people. Since you make no concessions to the name of YaHudaH, it will make none to you. There is nothing in you that even tries to defend the name of YaHudaH. You fill your arms full of text from the house of Israel and vindicate yourself as though the things that you have in your hands are other than thievery. The JEWish people, own these words. They are written in their own handwriting. You can believe in your own righteousness and in your freedom from being cursed by YHWH, but, why? Believing in a curse against the JEWish people, is cursing JEWs. It's all the same thing.



          • #6
            Cursing the "blessings".

            ...The phrase, Ye are cursed with a curse, that Malachi uses, is not intended to imply that YHWH has cursed his people. {The nation of Israel} This is not the curse of Deuteronomy's twenty-eighth chapter. It is a warning of consequence, for shortchanging the priesthood of Levi. A promise is made concerning a messenger of the covenant, who will make the offerings of Levi pleasant to YHWH again. This book must be read in it's entirety to see the authors complaint. The author sees the mistreatment of the priesthood as a curse against the people's blessings. The priesthood is connected to the name of YHWH, and when you shortchange the priesthood, you shortchange the name that they serve. The priesthood makes a link between the tribes of Jacob and the name of GD.


            The blessing.

            22 And YHWH spake unto Moses, saying,

            23 Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,

            24 YHWH bless thee, and keep thee:

            25 YHWH make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:

            26 YHWH lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.

            27 (**And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and --> I will bless them**). Nu. 6: 22 - 27

            ...This is how the priests are to bless the people. They make a link between the name of YHWH and the tribes of Jacob with the associated Baruchot. (accompanied blessing) To gain this blessing, you must revere the name of GD.

            It is not the people of Israel that is cursed, but their "blessings".

            6 A son honoureth his father, and a servant his master: if then I be a father, where is mine honour? and if I be a master, where is my fear? saith YHWH of hosts unto you, O priests, (**that despise my name**). And ye say, Wherein have we despised thy name? Mal. 1: 6

            1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.

            2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, (**to give glory unto my name**), saith YHWH of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and (**I will curse your blessings**): yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. Mal. 2: 1, 2

            ...The author threatens Israel with the curse that Edom has labored with, to show that YHWH's name is to be honored. It is the priesthood that tends the name of YHWH. The priests fail in honoring GD's name, and the people, in bringing their offerings to the warehouses to fill them, and also in bringing the "best" to YHWH.

            13 Ye said also, Behold, what a weariness is it! and ye have snuffed at it, saith YHWH of hosts; and ye brought that which was torn, and the lame, and the sick; thus ye brought an offering: should I accept this of your hand? saith YHWH.

            14 But cursed be the deceiver, which hath in his flock a male, and voweth, and sacrificeth unto Adonai a corrupt thing: for I am a great King, saith YHWH of hosts, and my name is dreadful among the heathen. Mal. 1: 13, 14 --> {see Deut. 28: 10}

            ...We are to contrast this curse of the peoples blessings to the reward of honoring GD's name.

            11 And I will rebuke the devourer for your sakes, and he shall not destroy the fruits of your ground; neither shall your vine cast her fruit before the time in the field, saith YHWH of hosts.

            12 And all nations shall call you blessed: for ye shall be a delightsome land, saith YHWH of hosts. Mal. 3: 11, 12

            ...This is the blessing that goes with honoring GD's name.

            16 Then they that feared YHWH spake often one to another: and YHWH hearkened, and heard it, and a book of remembrance was written before him for them that feared YHWH, and (**that thought upon his name**). Mal. 3: 16

            ...Finally we are told that a righteous sun will rise for those that fear YHWH's name. {an unrighteous sun testifies of YHWH's name}

            1 For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith YHWH of hosts, that it shall leave them neither (*root nor branch*). --> {without a name}

            2 But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. {freed from the stall}

            3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for (**they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet**) in the day that I shall do this, saith YHWH of hosts. Mal. 4: 1 - 3

            ...Again, it is not a curse against Israel that is spoken of, but rather a curse against Israel's "blessings".



            • #7
              Repent And Return!

              Hi Thummim,

              YAHWEH though Malachi speaks about several curses. YAHWEH does say that the people are cursed:
              Mal 3:9
              9 Ye are cursed with a curse: for ye have robbed me, even this whole nation. (KJV)
              YAHWEH as you have pointed out does say that the priesthood is promised a curse and their blessings are cursed:
              Mal 2:1-2
              1 And now, O ye priests, this commandment is for you.
              2 If ye will not hear, and if ye will not lay it to heart, to give glory unto my name, saith YAHWEH of hosts, I will even send a curse upon you, and I will curse your blessings: yea, I have cursed them already, because ye do not lay it to heart. (KJV)
              Is it not a blessing to have your iniquity and your sin blotted out? What happens if this blessing should be cursed? What would be the effect? Would not iniquity and sin reappear in the priesthood and in the people? Where iniquity and sin is blotted out, there is no longer any consciousness of either one in the mind of ELOHIM or in the mind of people. Yet, when I read the whole of Malachi, I hear an ELOHIM that is angry with a people that have sinned. The final word of this angry ELOHIM is this:
              Mal 4:4-7
              4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.
              5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of YAHWEH:
              6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse.
              7 THE END OF THE PROPHETS. (KJV)
              This final word is for all Israel, and this final word reaffirms the Torah of Moses. The Torah of Moses has this judgment:
              Deut 27:26
              26 Cursed be he that confirmeth not all the words of this law to do them. And all the people shall say, Amen. (KJV)
              Indeed, the blessing has been cursed. There is no longer a blotting out of sin in Israel according to the word of YAHWEH. Now, ELIYAH must come to change this circumstance; otherwise, the whole earth (all peoples) will be cursed. Hence, this ELIYAH is very important to the well being of everyone, and not just the Yahudim.

              Now, here is the word according to Thummim: Since the time of Cyrus, the Yahudim have continued to be blessed. Eventhough, they do not do as Moses commands, there is no curse. The domination of the Greeks was a blessing. They destroyed the domination of the Persians. The Diaspora was a blessing for the Yahudim. Now, the Yahudim need not be concerned with firstfruits. The domination of the Romans was a blessing. They destroyed the domination of the Greeks. The destruction of Jerusalem and the Second Temple was a blessing. Now, the priesthood and the nation need not be concerned with offerings. The rise of Islam was a blessing. The dome on the Rock is a blessing. The Inquisition was a blessing. The Pogroms were a blessing. The Holocaust was a blessing, and last of all, Arafat and the Arabs have been a blessing. With all these blessings, what need have the Yahudim for worry over curses?

              Messiah Yahushua is ELIYAH. There is no salvation for anyone, there is no blessing in any other name, there is no blessing for anyone save through HIM. So, there is great hope for all peoples including the Yahudim, that is, once they realize that their blessings have been curses! Repent and return!

              Sincerely, Spying
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


              • #8
                No curse for Israel! {Nu. 23: 7 - 10}

                ...Spying, the spirit of Balak is definately upon you. "Come curse me this peoples", I hear you say. But "how can I curse whom YHWH has not cursed", has to be my answer. Malachi speaks of his people's blessings being cursed. {not his people} He also speaks of a remedy. He is not cursing his people.

                ...Spying writes;

                Messiah Yahushua is ELIYAH.

                He {your messiah}, says that "John" is Eliyah if you will recieve it. If you will recieve it, so is George W. Bush. {Mat. 11: 14} I however can't except it yet, since I look for the ashes under the feet of YHWH's people, to tell me that the day of YHWH has come. This is the authors way of telling his people, that the difficulties they were having maintaining their blessing, would be amended by YHWH under the right circumstances. There were a few problems with the second temple. Shekinah was delayed {it didn't appear 4oo+ years later for your messiah either, it only attends YHWH's name, which was Malachi's real problem to solve.} Malachi thought that honoring the name of YHWH would bring an answer to his people, concerning the diminished blessing of the people. {But it helps to know the name first} As I recall, your messiah was even less of a blessing than Malachi's admonition to his people. He couldn't do the peace thing and work out {liberty} for the Yahudeem. What does "proclaim liberty to the captives" mean to you? {Isa. 61: 1} How did YHWH show his vengence to his people's enemies? That is what the Day of YHWH, {the LORD} is all about. It's not a good day for YaHudah's enemies. "Because of the violence done to YaHudaH", is Joels explaination of this event. For (jesus), the day of YHWH never came. {Joel 3: 2 --> 3: 16} When YHWH's people see the name of their Eloheem as a family name, it will cement the heart of the children, to their father(s). A little honor for the family name, is being called for.



                • #9
                  The Work Of Jews

                  Hi Thummim,

                  Yahudah accepted the covenant knowing that it was a covenant of blessings and curses, and you know that they did do so. You believe that the Holy Covenant was in some fashion annulled by YAHWEH at the time of Cyrus to exclude the curses. If this was the case, then why did YAHWEH command Yahudah to remember the Law of Moses (Malachi 4:4). The Law of Moses is both blessing and cursing (Deut. 30:19).

                  This is the way it is: If a Yahud does what is commanded, he is blessed. If a Yahud does not do what is commanded, he is cursed. If a Yahud does what is commanded, he lives. If a Yahud does not do what is commanded, he dies.

                  All Israel vowed that they would do as YAHWEH has commanded. This vow was made for all the future descendants of Israel and not just for those standing making the vow, and this vow must be kept. When it is kept, it means blessing. When it is not kept, it means cursing. I have been told that Yahud means YAH Praiser. So, Yahudah must be chief or king in performing the works of YAHWEH:
                  Ps 145:10
                  10 All thy works shall praise thee, O YAHWEH; and thy saints shall bless thee. (KJV)
                  And from Yahudah comes Messiah Yahushua who does the work of YAHWEH:
                  John 4:34
                  34 Yahushua saith unto them, My meat is to do the will of him that sent me, and to finish his work. (KJV)
                  It is a part of the work of YAHWEH to bless those who bless Abraham, and to curse those who curse Abraham. YAHWEH gave the Law to Israel. Since the Law is a blessing to those who keep it, then Abraham is blessed through the obedience of those to whom the Law was given. On the other hand, the Law is a curse to those who disobey. So, we curse Abraham when we disregard the Law and commit iniquity. Either way, whether we obey or whether we commit iniquity, YAHWEH is using our activity to keep HIS word to Abraham. This is why I told you that the Yahudim fulfill the will of YAHWEH no matter whether they choose obedience or iniquity. They exist to receive YAHWEH'S work of blessing and cursing. They exist so that YAHWEH can keep HIS promise to Abraham.

                  Messiah Yahushua took that existence seriously, and he made the most of the opportunity to praise YAHWEH ELOHIM by keeping the vow of obedience:
                  Exod 19:8
                  8 And all the people answered together, and said, All that YAHWEH hath spoken we will do. And Moses returned the words of the people unto YAHWEH. (KJV)
                  Messiah kept that vow even unto death:
                  Ps 22:25
                  25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him. (KJV) (The Great Congregation was gathered at the Cross. This is the Day of YAHWEH written by the prophet Joel.)

                  Ps 50:14-17
                  14 Offer unto ELOHIM thanksgiving; and pay thy vows unto the most High:
                  15 And call upon me in the day of trouble: I will deliver thee, and thou shalt glorify me. (Messiah gathered all the spirit of mankind to the Father at the Cross)
                  16 But unto the wicked ELOHIM saith, What hast thou to do to declare my statutes, or that thou shouldest take my covenant in thy mouth?
                  17 Seeing thou hatest instruction, and castest my words behind thee. (KJV)
                  Sincerely, Spying
                  The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                  • #10
                    And they shall call them the holy people, the redeemed of YHWH.

                    Spying writes;

                    Yahudah accepted the covenant knowing that it was a covenant of blessings and curses,


                    ...a blessing for a blessing, a curse for a curse. Which one will you recieve from YHWH?

                    3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed. Gen. 12: 3

                    12 YHWH hath been mindful of us: (**he will bless us**); --> (**he will bless the house of Israel**); he will bless the house of Aaron. Ps. 115: 12

                    ...and he has.

                    ...Israel is a people whom Moses defended before his Eloheem. YHWH thought to make Moses a people unto himself, because this people thought that a golden calf might make a better eloheem for them. Fourty years later, this same Eloheem refused to let his people be cursed by Balak. This is the people who constantly murmured against YHWH. But YHWH blessed his people instead. This was after Moses offended YHWH at the rock of Meribah. This was after the people refused to except the rank that YHWH had put upon Levi, where upon Aarons staff budded to show YHWH's favor to Levi. But YHWH wouldn't let the king of Moab, have Israel cursed. Why? You are a friend of Balak. If YHWH should consider his people a righteous people, you are offended. But you seem to be able to sustain your own righteousness with JEWish words? Come on Spying, give it up. This people walk in the name of their Eloheem. They are no more sinful than any other people in this world. And YHWH is "their" righteousness. You ask that your debt {sins} be forgiven, but you cannot forgive the debt of Israel. Israel goes free, but you still have a curse to overcome. Step aside, we are coming through. The glory is ours to wear.



                    • #11
                      The glory of his name!

                      ...Spying writes;

                      Ps 22:25

                      25 My praise shall be of thee in the great congregation: I will pay my vows before them that fear him. (KJV) (The Great Congregation was gathered at the Cross. This is the Day of YAHWEH written by the prophet Joel.)


                      ...When the day of YHWH comes, you will most likely be ashes under the feet of Israel, whose covenant you hate. Be thankful that this day hasn't come yet.

                      22 (**I will declare thy name unto my brethren**): in the midst of the congregation will I (**praise thee**).

                      23 Ye that fear YHWH, (**praise him**); --> all ye the seed of Jacob, glorify him; and fear him, all ye the seed of Israel. Ps. 22: 22, 23

                      ...The great congregation is the seed of Jacob, which is the seed of Israel.

                      ...The name of Praise is Yahudah. Praise Yah!


                      6 But I am a worm, and (**no man**); a reproach of men, and despised of the people. Ps. 22: 6

                      14 Fear not, thou worm Jacob, and ye men of Israel; I will help thee, saith YHWH, and thy redeemer, the Holy One of Israel. Isa. 41: 14

                      1 Arise, shine; for thy light is come, and the glory of YHWH is risen upon thee.

                      2 For, behold, the darkness shall cover the earth, and gross darkness the people: but YHWH shall arise upon thee, and (**his glory--> seen when he declares his name, Ex. 34: 5**) shall be seen upon thee.

                      3 And the Gentiles shall come to thy light, and kings to the brightness of thy rising. Isa. 60: 1 - 3

                      --> 5 And YHWH descended in the cloud, and stood with him there, and proclaimed the name of YHWH. {his glory} Ex. 34: 5



                      • #12
                        A Very Present Danger!

                        Hi Thummim,

                        I would have you look at the Day of YAHWEH in a two fold manner. It is a day of vengeance. That means it is a day when all sinners will die. It is a short and quick work. It happened in one day at the Cross of Messiah. All men were gathered to this Cross. Another way of looking at this picture is to imagine Messiah Yahushua surrounded by a multitude of crosses on which hang all of mankind. So, all of us have already died through Messiah.

                        However, there is a problem, and this is how I see it. When you suddenly surround or cover a fire with flesh, what happens to the fire? It begins to smolder. It takes time for the fire to recover its strength and envelope the carcass. It takes time for the fire to again emerge and reveal itself.

                        This world has a big, huge problem. The ELECT are points of fire within the carcass slain with the whole world. They are YAHWEH ELOHIM. As they begin to awaken and revive, spontaneous combustion becomes the destiny of this world. The physical will follow the spiritual. As spiritual fire grows, there is real danger for the physical inhabitants of the world. Without an escape or redemption or deliverance, they will become ashes under the feet of Messiah Yahushua. This is also the Day of YAHWEH!

                        Sincerely, Spying
                        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                        • #13
                          1 How amiable are thy tabernacles, O YHWH of hosts!

                          2 My soul longeth, yea, even fainteth for the courts of the LORD: (**my heart and my flesh**) crieth out for the living God.

                          3 Yea, the sparrow hath found an house, and the swallow a nest for herself, where she may lay her young, (**even thine altars**), O YHWH of hosts, my King, and my God.

                          4 Blessed are they that dwell in thy house: they will be still praising thee. Selah. Ps. 84: 1 - 4 {can flesh dwell in the house of YHWH?}


                          9 Therefore my heart is glad, and my glory rejoiceth: (**my flesh also shall rest in hope**). Ps. 16: 9


                          ...Let's give flesh a little hope.

                          ...Yashusua {jesus}, in order to be messiah, would have had to make his people righteous through his knowledge. {Isa. 53: 11} This is the only reason that Isaiah 53 exists. Isa. 53 sets up an intercessor for the peoples righteousness. His argument must be won with YHWH. But {jesus} failed this test. Instead, he became a curse to an already righteous people. (My People!) --> (Us All!)

                          ...The day of YHWH comes to those who have offended YHWH's people, when he himself, held no charge against them. They are an (all) righteous people, {even though sin surrounds them as it does all people} but their righteousness must be shown to YHWH to wake him up from his deep sleep. This is called intercession. But the intercessor doesn't show up during the Roman occupation, and the righteous are slaughtered by the millions, because of it. In the end, YHWH's own people are made guilty, only for their name. (GD!)


                          16 And he saw that there was no man, and (**wondered that there was no intercessor**): therefore his arm brought salvation unto him; and his righteousness, it sustained him. Isa. 59: 16


                          ...Why won't christianity argue the righteousness of the JEWish people? But they {the christians} steal their own righteousness from the righteous, whom they openly accuse. My hope Spying, is for you to be different. If you will not grant absolution to those to whom it belongs, than you will not gain absolution either. Instead, the day of YHWH (YaHudaH) will be your part in YHWH's rage. Even your own messiah warned you of this. (Mat. 18: 23 - 35) Read Isa. 53, and see to whom this chapter of text belongs. Are gentiles mentioned anywhere?


                          ...One can write that they have revealed the name of (YHWH --> YaHudaH), and yet reveal nothing.


                          • #14
                            I Have Accused All Both Jew And Gentile!

                            Hi Thummim,

                            Thank you for your hope! Christianity cannot argue for the righteousness of the YAHUDIM because they themselves believe that their righteousness is also imputed by decree. They believe in Yahushua Messiah so YAHWEH ELOHIM gives to them righteousness for the sake of Messiah's substitutional work in their stead. You and the Christians are very similar in your thinking about righteousness. The only difference between you and the Christians that I can see is that you have yet to explain how YAHWEH can decree a sinner righteous while that sinner is still wicked or still performing unrighteousness.

                            Perhaps, you would take the time to explain to me how that works? I know how the Christians imagine themselves substitutionally righteous. How is it that you or the Jews or anyone can be righteous without performing righteousness? This is totally beyond me! Show me how this works? Please!

                            Sincerely, Spying
                            The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                            • #15
                              It is YHWH, that makes his people righteous.

                              ...Spying, I have shown you a righteous sinner in Moses, who died a sinner on the wrong side of the Jordan river, while watching his people cross the river without him. Now who makes atonement for Moses dead body? Is Moses righteous? Yes, just as (all) Israel is righteous. YHWH makes it so. The key to the prison of the law, is his to use.

                              17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Isa. 45: 17

                              --> {saved in the time of Cyrus, with an everlasting salvation, all sins and transgressions remitted, even though there is no temple and no altar.} YHWH is the peoples righteousness!

                              ...Spying, you as Pharaoh, harden your heart still. Please, LET MY PEOPLE GO, that they may worship YHWH, where the righteous gather, and where YHWH can be found. {in his own righteousness}