The Menu!

[Spying]

Hi Brothers and Sisters,

Well, we have invited you to come on in and have something to eat and drink. What are we serving?

The Tzaddikim over the years have been extremely zealous concerning the food laws of Leviticus 11. We will not knowingly eat anything unclean. Initially, all of us became very label conscious after our conversion, and this trait is still with us. Every prepared packaged food has ingredients. The food can be clean, but the ingredients can be unclean. If you try to serve us clean food that has unclean ingredients, we will not eat it. A good example is pie crust. It is often made with lard. We have no interest in a pie made with lard. We will not eat it. It is unclean.

This past Sabbath I prepared and served a platter of refried beans over cream cheese topped with sour cream, lettuce, ripe olives, diced tomatoes, shredded cheddar, and a medium salsa for the congregation to eat in the common meal after our Sabbath services. It was good. Now, refried beans can be clean or unclean depending on how they are made. They can also be prepared with lard. The Tzaddikim have no desire to eat refried beans made with lard. It is unclean.

When we first began looking at labels a number of years ago, we were really surprised at the number of foods that have unclean ingredients. Breads can be made with lard. Cheeses were often made with a pig enzyme. Cheeses were really the biggest challenge for us. Initially, we could not hardly find a cheese not made with pig rennet, but things have changed over the years. People today seem to be very health conscious. They want less fat. Therefore, a lot of practices in the preparing of food have been changed to accommodate that consciousness. This has been good for the Tzaddikim. There is a greater variety of clean food for us to choose from.

So, to make a long story short, we will not knowingly prepare and serve any member or guest on this forum with unclean food. Shame on us if you catch us serving unclean food. However, there will be many members and guests coming to this forum with food that they have prepared that is extremely unclean. They will offer you some. Should we allow that? We do not see that we have any other choice but to allow it. However, remember that we are ingredient conscious. We may point out to you that the food is unclean. Whether you eat or not is your choice!

Sincerely, Spying

[Spying]

Leprosy!

Hi Everyone,

It is going to be difficult for me to make this post appear in the proper spirit. Generally, I believe that YAH thinks and projects the best about all of HIS Elect. At it is written:

Rom 4:17
17 ......even ELOHIM, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were. (KJV)

Properly speaking, who is it then that should say anything negative about ELOHIM'S Elect? No one really! YAH is in charge. HE knows HIS own, and we all come to HIM according to HIS timetable, and not our own.

Accordingly, when I encounter a individual who is clearly not a brother or sister, what should I say about them? Should I not confess them to be my brother or sister, while they are not, in the hope that they will eventually be so. This seems to me to be a very advisable and wise course of action. Nonetheless, I recognize that this approach can be carried to far. What have I accomplished if the individual over an extended period of time proves that he or she is truly an adversary dedicated to the destruction of the Elect? On the one hand, I have proven my love for my enemies, have I not? On the other hand, through my love, I clearly run the risk of not being my brother's keeper, by allowing stumbling blocks to be placed in the path of the Elect by those who have proven themselves enemies while I, at the same time, am speaking of my enemies as brothers and sisters!

Do you all see and understand my dilemma? We can begin as enemies and according to YAH's election, we can become brothers and sisters, but we can also begin as enemies and become even greater enemies. So, what does love require?

It seems to me that I should always hope even for my enemies, but my hoping does not negate the fact that my enemies are my enemies. So, when should we confess enemies to be enemies, and how are we going to accomplish such a thing on this forum?

Sincerely, Spying

[Sandy]

Spying, are you, just like Eliyah going to begin banning those who see the Scriptures in a different light, or question things? Or is it just me in particular that you are now seeking to be rid of?

I see everything that was posted on the "Feedback" forum has been removed. Is that an indication that you are changing your policy from what was originally presented?

If you prefer for me not to participate on your forum, don't play games, just be upfront about it and say so.

Just for the record, though. I have not said anything against the TZADDIKIM as you have accused me of in some of your posts. I have posted according to my personal views, but I have never accused anyone here nor have I said that anyone else had to conform to my view. My view is simply that, my view.

[Spying]

Leper Colony!

Hi Sandy,

I understand why you might be concerned, but when have I ever mentioned banning anyone? I thought you knew us well enough to know that banning is not our style. The Tzaddikim are called from time to time to make certain judgments, and if we desired that you leave, we would definitely ask you to leave. So, your leaving is not our desire. Besides, if all those that disagreed with us left, then who would we have to argue with?

What I am seeking a solution for is exactly what I stated. I want to be your friend, I want to build you up, I want to encourage you, but at some point and in some manner, I know that I must confront you in stronger manner than I have. I must get on your case a little. Now, how will I do that? That is the question that I am asking.

I'll tell you what I have been thinking about. I have been thinking about establishing a leper colony at this forum. I have been thinking about it since we started the forum. You did not start that thinking, but you are a good candidate for becoming one of our charter members. You would not lose any of your privileges at this forum, but you would be designated as being an unclean member. I haven't decided for sure, and besides, when I do decide, I must then convince two other guys, ImAHebrew and Hyssop, that it would be a proper thing to do.

I am curious, how would you yourself handle someone who admits to being unclean and refuses cleansing?

We haven't changed anything on the Feedback Forum. Just go there and change the 30 days to 60 days, and you will see that it is all still there.

We may be upgrading the forum tomorrow. If we do, it should eliminate the counter problems on the longer threads. The forum may be temporarily off line for awhile if we do.

Believe it or not, Sandy, I like you.

Sincerely, Spying

[Sandy]

UNCLEAN?

Spying, you wrote:

I am curious, how would you yourself handle someone who admits to being unclean and refuses cleansing?

To begin with I would not make such an accusation. You have no idea what my position, or anyone elses for that matter, is before the MOST HIGH.

Once again you have twisted the truth concerning me. I have not admitted to any such thing nor have I ever refused cleansing.

• Ezekiel 36:24-28
  24) For I (YHUH) will take you from the nations and gather you out of all the lands, and bring you into your land.
  25) Then I (YHUH) will sprinkle clean waters on you and you shall be clean. I (YHUH) will cleanse you from all your defilement and from all your idols.
  26) And I (YHUH) will also give you a new heart, and I (YHUH) will put a new spirit within you. And I (YHUH) will take away the stoney heart out of your flesh and I (YHUH) will give to you a heart of flesh.
  27) And I (YHUH) will put my Spirit within you and cause you to walk in my statutes and you shall keep my judgments and do them.
  28) And you shall dwell in the land that I (YHUH) gave to your fathers. And you shall be my people and I (YHUH) will be your Elohim.

I believe what this says. Don't you?

You wrote:

I thought you knew us well enough to know that banning is not our style.

I have been thinking about establishing a leper colony at this forum...You did not start that thinking, but you are a good candidate...you would be designated as being an unclean member

In-other-words, anyone who does not see eye-to-eye with you would be considered unclean and bannished to the leper colony.

That is unconscionable. I would rather be asked to leave or banned.

LEPER COLONY

UNCLEAN

Do you hear yourself!

As far as I'm concerned you are on dangerous ground Spying. You are setting yourself on a pedestal that YHUH may just knock out from under you.

[Thummim]

Hello Spying. I'm glad to hear that you are not planning to ban Sandy from this forum. That was the reason that I quit Eliyah's forum. It was Sandy who warned me that I wasn't going to last too long on his site. The next day I was banned. Eliyah allowed me to post again, however so soon I was using his site again. Sandy was writing some of the best posts that I was reading on Eliyah's web site. Eliyah banned her and I decided it would be better for me to quit. I had told Sandy that I would quit the site again if she were banned. Sandy is not afraid of the controversy that may come through exposing the truth. Her materal was always well researched. She never assaults anyone personally that I'm aware of. But she will comment on an idea that seems invalad to her. It's always in a friendly way. She certainly is knowledgeable. People like me need people like Sandy to join us in conversation. As far as terming her a leper, isn't that the way the messiah is viewed by many? Then too, I know that I would end up in your leper colony sooner or later. This seems a very bad idea to me. The lepers would soon be writing the most interesting posts. It was Sandy that invited me here. I certainly have enjoyed this site. You've shown that you are not afraid of a good mix of ideas. Achieving this does not come by dividing peoples as though their ideas are diseases. Are we to cry out, UNCLEAN!, UNCLEAN!, when we feel a post might defile the exceptable doctrines of the tzaddikim? I thought that I'd better comment on the content of this post. Again, I'm glad that you have no plans to ban anyone. ---------------------------Michael

[Bratu McCaskey]

Em Hotep (in peace)
My triumphant return...Hello all hope everything is going very well for all of you. It would seem we have something of a predictament on our hands a disagreement it would seem. Sandy thank you very much for the Indian Prayer i thoroughly enjoyed it. And thank you Deanne for checking up on me and such, but that isn't the point of this post.
Why not eat pork Spying? To be honest the only real reason it was in place then was because there weren't proper methods to cook it and it was dangerous because of it. I really do feel that is about the extent of it.
If you seperate us into a leper colony then i guess i am atop the leper hill. I think this would be a mistake i am not truely sure what the motivation for this is, it doesn't quite seem like you. What could creating the "colony" accomplish? I don't see any real benefits to it. Would it be to protect people from dissenting opinions or keep them closer? All deserve the right to decide for themselves. Let them decide what they think based on what we have said previously instead of a name tag that would be given to us. That is my peace

Bratu

[Spying]

A Ring of Truth!

Hi Bratu and Thummim,

First of all, let me say to you, Bratu, that I am heartened to see your return. Thank you for translating "Em Hotep" for me. I was wondering what it meant. You do show a desire of being a peace maker. Wouldn't that be a far cry from how you were perceived and judged on the EliYah Forum?

Thummim, everything, and I mean everything, begins with belief. The primary reason I tolerate ideas contrary to my own is to test my beliefs in order that my faith may increase. The secondary reason is that I am a teacher. I have learned that, in order to be a good teacher, one must first be willing to listen to the individual which you desire to teach. Good teachers have developed the capacity to listen. That is how they have learned, and that is why they possess something to impart or teach to others. Skill at listening enables the teacher to understand his student. Thus, willingness to listen is a necessary ingredient both for the student and the teacher, and a good teacher is always a student.

Now, if I should take an interest in you, and if I should take the time to grow to understand you, I do so in order to proselyte you. Of course, I am assuming that you are doing the same to me. We are testing our ideas with each other, and we are seeking to convince each other. If insincerity surfaces from either party, it breaks the process of learning down. Some people are not sincere enough to take the time to listen. All they want to do is teach. They have not thought about it enough to realize that really listening is an essential part of the process. So, for those not listening, I will do things to force the insincere to listen without actually directly telling them that they need to start listening. The very best way of accomplishing that task is through developing an argument so solid that the individual has no opportunity to answer you back in reply. If the individual continually ignores solid arguments, then more drastic action is needful. Need I say more?

Bratu, the ability to distinguish between clean and unclean ideas is absolutely essential in the pursuit of the truth. So, clean and unclean foods go directly to the heart of the question you were posing on the "Ring of Truth, Storm of Silence" Thread. Let's assume that you yourself are the YAHWEH. How do you even begin to impart your ideas, your way of doing things, to your students? Somehow, you must enable them on a fundamental basis to begin to distinguish between things, shouldn't you? YAHWEH does that for us through the food laws. They seem arbitrary, but they are not. There is a reason for everyone of them, but they themselves are not the real goal of YAHWEH. The real goal of YAHWEH, after you have first learned to be very careful about what you put into your mouth, is to enable you to make a transition to distinguishing between the thoughts and ideas which you allow into your mind. Now, that has a ring of truth to it, doesn't it?

May you both be blessed to teach!

Sincerely, Spying

[Bratu McCaskey]

Em Hotep

yes spying it would be a far cry from how i was percieved at the Eliyah forum. But what you see or what you think you see isn't always what you get.

I really do honestly think that the whole food laws thing was really put in place as an act of common sense back when they knew where the sickness came from but not necessarily how to clean the food so that it wasn't passed. Good old trickonosis (spelling) and they didn't know what temp it had to be heated too and it just wasn't worth it. Now however with proper cooking methods there is no problem. And a lack of shellfish because colonies bordered by the sea were the ones who typically got leperosy. I truely think that is really the reason that those laws were written. And i don't think they are applicable today.

bratu