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**ROVIVRUS** · 04-30-2002, 09:51 AM

Split,

I thank you very sincerely for your heartfelt, honest post. I have also shared and continue to share your mournful feelings. Each of us is experiencing loss, individually, in many different ways. I am excited to talk to you, as we have lost touch somewhere in past years. I will always have a connection with the other children who shared my childhood with me--always. I have wondered when I might hear from you. I have wondered what you and others have been feeling all along. I did hear from your brother a while back, and was very pleased to have talked to him.

I will continue to re-read and think about the things that you wrote. I know that our family and the church is at a place where none of us would have ever placed us at this time. It is still mind-boggling to truly comprehend. I know that you and I especially mourn for the loss of our parents friendships and fellowship. I know that our parents all share the same painful tears. I, too, do not have a solution. Each person must find their own way. Each us must live and be as we feel fulfilled and comfortable being. Being together is not that place for all of us right now, unfortunately. I believe that we all felt great comfort in the closeness of our families. Right now it is new and scary to exist separately. I will pray for you, as I pray for us all.

I will write more later…

Love,
Rovivrus

**Thummim** · 04-30-2002, 09:58 AM

Be Happy.

...Split, concerning me and Spying {and others}, we are not fighting. We are wrestling each other, using our respective understandings. We happen to like each other very much. Spying is my friend. He has comtributed to my understanding of the ways of YHWH, as much as anybody. I look forward to anything that he posts. I think that Spying is a servant of YHWH's name, and is being used for that purpose. There are only two of us here, that don't like each other, still we keep our respect for each other, up. I'm not sure, that I would know how to put softness into the words that I post. I am assumming that your complaint is the conflict in the words that are posted here. Please look through them to see the friendships that have formed underneith. By the way, welcome to the forum. There is love here.

....Michael

**Explorer** · 04-30-2002, 06:17 PM

Two sides

Split,
I want to acknowledge you for sharing. I think that your honesty was very sincere and thank you for that. When you talk about two sides, it has been hard on both, but a lot of the time each one of us only sees our own side and how we feel. Hearing you talk about the hurt you feel- I am very PRESENT to that. I hear you and am sorry for that hurt. Even though we have not been together in church for a long time, I care for you and love you. Rovivrus is right on when she talks about the loss we are experiencing concerning our parents friendships and fellowship. Could it be similar to a divorce? I mean in regards to wanting them back together.
It is very interesting that you ask for peace to me-because this is what I told 150 people last night at a seminar called The Landmark Forum. My idea is that I want peace in my family, not just in the church. You see, I had this possibility to forgive Uncle X and shared that with several people- but, the thing I realized was inauthentic about that was that I wanted to forgive so that everyone else would see that it was so great of me- I wanted to look good! Then I wanted everyone else to be inspired by me forgiving and just get on with it and do there own forgiving. So, I have not been 100 percent present with my possibility. I do so desparetely want to forgive him for myself and that would be my choice. It is a choice to FORGIVE! I realize that everyone is in a different space and I will accept that. I also realize that even if everyone in my family were to forgive Uncle X, it would not change my family. The rest of the stuff would still be there. You see, somehow I have had this idea that our family is dysfunctional! This is how they occur for me. The leader of the seminar asked me what my expectation or ideal was for my family and I did not know what to say. I just knew that it was not this! I realize that my family is great, just the way they are. They do not need to be fixed! I have been acting like they do need to be fixed and that I can help them. I have been inauthentic in that I have pretended that I have to help them get fixed. This has impacted me and my relationships with my family in a big way. I have felt hopeless, sad, angry, resentful, and resigned. I have lived
in a superstition that if everyone else would just get there act together, that
I could be happy! That is such a STORY!
So, what do I get from all of that? I am creating the possiblility of loving my family just the way they are and accepting them in the spaces that they are in. This really is inclusive of all of my extended family. I can get excited about this possibility in what we can create as a family.
I hope that I have made some sense here. I want to say that I love my family with all of my heart and I am so grateful to God for them. I have much more to say about possibilities and my inauthenticities. In the meantime, I am so glad that you wrote know that you are in my prayers.

Love Explorer

**Thummim** · 04-30-2002, 07:04 PM

Great Idea.

Explorer writes;

I am creating the possiblility of loving my family just the way they are and accepting them in the spaces that they are in. This really is inclusive of all of my extended family. I can get excited about this possibility in what we can create as a family.

...Yes, the way they are. This is how I want all Yahudeem to be recieved by their Eloheem. What he does with them after that, is a family affair. A blanket pardon which allows recognition, but doesn't require forgiveness {by outsiders}. A chance for people to heal. I'm really into your approach.

....Michael

**Spying** · 05-01-2002, 08:40 AM

A Certain Safe Place In Our Hearts!

Hi Split,

It is absolutely great to hear from you, and you are most welcome here. This is a place to talk and share, and I wish that Lo Ammi was a safe place for all to speak and make their feelings known, but more often than not this is a battle ground that only the bold and courageous dare enter. You are a leader.

Monday evening I attended a gathering of men and women at Duff's Restaurant in the Central West End to listen to readings of stories and experiences shared in poems and song by those who were victims of sexual crimes and by those who work to help the victims. Your cousin and my niece read several of her poems. It was one of those heightened emotional experiences which you do write about. I questioned Rovivus at the end of the program because I was curious as to why more victims do not take the opportunity to write publicly on the forums and tell their stories and gain the release that comes through telling one's story? They do this by speaking in public which to me takes far more courage than writing on a forum. She replied to me that Lo Ammi is not a safe place for victims to express themselves. I regret that she is in a certain sense right, but each of us in our own way are victims of some struggle, misfortune and abuse, and in time all our stories find expression. This is place of struggle and expression, and we never know who is watching as we war to learn and know each other, and we never know who is being impacted for the good by what we write. There is always hope. Our lives unfold in beautiful color, all the colors of the rainbow, and all of us fine the pot of gold at the end, but first the storms do come.

You know full well growing up that most of my speaking was directed at the adults rather than to the children. You also know how much emphasis we placed on knowledge and understanding within our assembly. Knowledge is knowledge, and understanding is understanding, but that was not my personal goal for you children. My personal goal was first and foremost one of consistency and stability. I wanted you all to grow up remembering that your parents and Uncle Spying kept the Sabbath Day. I also wanted the Sabbath Day to be a special day in your minds. I wanted you to enjoy tasty food and drink. I wanted you to romp and play with your cousins all refreshed after sleeping through the sermons. I wanted you to have fun so that the Sabbath Day would always be special in your minds.

You know, Split, we cannot replace what we had. We can't go back. We can only go forward. There is something very special about home assemblies which endure. I look forward to the day in which I am sitting on the couch falling asleep listening to you speaking. Now, that is not exactly a pot of gold, but it would be pretty close in my mind!

Thanks for coming and speaking in sincerity and truth to us.

Love, Spying

**ROVIVRUS** · 05-01-2002, 08:48 AM

Dear Split,

When I was re-reading over your post this morning I stopped at the part when you were explaining how easy it is to cry--all the time and anywhere. I do remember being in that place. In fact, I went back through the first page of the book that I am writing and the second paragraph almost replicated what you had written. I wrote that part in July of 2001. I was talking about how the tears come at random, at home, at school, in the car, almost anywhere. And when they come, you can’t stop them very easily. Last year, I had to go outside and find a secluded spot on the fifteen minute breaks of my night classes so that I could cry. This happened a lot during my family therapy class. You can imagine, the general topics of the class were really hitting home.

But I just wanted to tell you that you are not alone. My little brother and I write each other letters. I started doing this with him about 6+ months ago so that he had a way to get his feelings out. It also keeps us in touch during hectic schedules. He wrote me the other day and had a similar story about the “tears”. He said he has dreams about his two best friends (cousins) that were taken away and that he wakes up crying at night. I think we probably all have silent moments of pain like this, more than any of us realize. He continued to write and tell me how he didn’t even get to say good-bye to them and that it almost feels like someone died. He is exactly right. Something did die. The way we “were” is what died. The way things used to be in our family and in our church needs to be mourned and we all need to say good-bye to it in our own way. Even if relationships are reconciled in the future, they will be new relationships, we will be a new family, and the church will be a new church…do you see? So it’s ok to mourn and grieve for our loss, while still creating the Possibility that Explorer was speaking about. I hope I am making sense here.

I realize that you might still be in a place where it is hard to see that anything good or positive has come from this situation in our family. But I must tell you that a long enough amount of time has gone by, since the abuse was first disclosed, that I am able to look back and reflect and identify positive things--or what I consider to be gains as well as losses. I can also tell you that I would have bet my life on the fact that I never would have said that last sentence. So anything is Possible. Explorer, you taught me that!

Love,
Rovivrus

**LoveforYah** · 05-01-2002, 06:53 PM

Shalom

May the peace of our Heavenly Father be with us all as we mourn and rejoice when HE gives us victory.... Yes, it is very hard when a family is being seperated as we all love our families and we only want what is the best for them.... Just like you Spying were saying that you wanted the children to experience the joy of Sabbath, the joy of the day of Yah, that is my desire too for my children, that they see HIM through the members for the "home family" and "church family".... tonight i would like to share with you a story, a story that i believe is very uplifting and encouraging... i have already shared that story with many people and i do hope and pray that you will be blessed with this story just as much (or more) as i have.... so... be blessed and bless others with hope and courage that Yahshua overcame the world... yes, Split i will pray for you that you may receive HIS peace.... be well...
here is the story......

>Some years ago on a hot summer day in south Florida
>a little boy decided to go for a swim in the old swimming hole
>behind his house. In a hurry to dive into the cool water, he
>ran out the back door, leaving behind shoes, socks, and shirt as he
>went. He flew into the water, not realizing that as he swam
>toward the middle of the lake, an alligator was swimming toward the shore. His
>mother in the house was looking out the window
>saw the two as they got closer and closer together. In utter fear,
>she ran toward the water, yelling to her son as loudly as she could.

>Hearing her voice, the little boy became alarmed and made a U-turn
>to swim to his mother. It was too late.
>Just as he reached her, the alligator reached him. From the
>dock, the mother grabbed her little boy by the arms just as the
>alligator snatched his legs. That began an incredible tug-of-war
>between the two. The alligator was much stronger than the mother,
>but the mother was much too passionate to let go.
>A farmer happened to drive by, heard her screams, raced from
>weeks and weeks in the hospital the little boy survived. His legs
>were extremely scarred by the vicious attack of the animal. And, on his
>arms, were deep scratches where his mother's fingernails dug into his
>flesh in her effort to hang on to the son she loved.
>The newspaper reporter who interviewed the boy after the trauma,
>asked if he would show him his scars. The boy lifted
>his pant legs. And then, with obvious pride, he said to the
>reporter, But look at my arms. I have great scars on my arms, too. I have
>them because my Mom wouldn't let go."

>You and I can identify ! with that little boy. We have scars,
>too. No, not from an alligator, or anything quite so dramatic. But
>the scars of a painful past. Some of those scars are unsightly and
>have caused us deep regret. But, some wounds, my friend, are
>because God has refused to let go. In the midst of your struggle,
>He's been there holding on to you. The Scripture teaches that God
>loves you.

>You are a child of God. He wants to protect you and provide for
>you in every way. But sometimes we foolishly wade into dangerous
>situations. The swimming hole of life is filled with peril - and
>we forget that the enemy is waiting to attack.
>That's when the tug-of-war begins - and if you have the scars
>of His love on your arms be very, very grateful. He did not and will
>not - let you go.
>Please pass this on to those you love. God has blessed you, so
>that you can be a blessing to others. You! just never ! know
>where a person is in his/her life and what they are going through.
>That is why it is soooo important that we are not selfish to receive the
>blessings of these messages without forwarding them to someone else.
>Right now, someone knows that you love them enough to not let them
>go.

May Yahweh bless you and keep you

in HIM
your sister in Yahshua
Dorota

**ROVIVRUS** · 05-03-2002, 08:53 AM

Drops of Jupiter

Explorer,

I wanted to write to you because I am very proud of you and your personal journey. I want everyone to know that you are my best friend, and that I love who you are. You know that I always, always, always, have a song that I am into. Well, I listened to one the other day that I would like to dedicate to you. When I listen to it, it makes me smile. You know the song, and here are the words to it:

Drops of Jupiter (by Train)

Now she’s back in the atmosphere
With drops of Jupiter in her hair
She acts like summer and walks like rain
Reminds me that there’s time to change.
Since the return of her stay on the moon,
She listens like Spring and she talks like June

Tell me, did you sail across the sun?
Did you make it to the Milky Way, to see the lights are faded?
And that heaven is overrated?
Tell me, did you fall from a shooting star?
One without a permanent scar?
And did you miss me while you were looking for yourself out there.

Now that she’s back from that soul vacation
Tracing away through the constellation
She checks out Mozart while she does Tao-Bo
Reminds me that there’s room to grow

Now that she’s back in the atmosphere I’m afraid that she might think of me as
Plain old Jane, ‘Told a story about a man who was too afraid to fly so he never did land’.

And tell me, did the wind sweep you off your feet?
Did you finally get the chance to dance along the light of day?
And head back to the Milky Way
And tell me, did Venus blow your mind?
Was it everything you wanted to find?
And did you miss me while you were looking for yourself out there?

Can you imagine, no love, pride, deep-fried chicken
Your best friend always sticking up for you, even when I know your wrong
Can you imagine no first dance, freeze-dried romance, five-hour phone conversations
The best soy latte that you ever had----and me.

Love,
Rovivrus

**Spying** · 05-04-2002, 09:41 AM

The Incredible Tug-Of-War!

Hi LoveforYAH,

Blessings this Sabbath Day to you and all whom you love! Thank you for the blessing of The Incredible Tug-Of-War Story. This is the story of us all, and you know how my mind works so you knew that I would love it. Now, identify the alligator for me. Of course, we are who we are. Who do you suppose is the Mother?

Each of us have a lesson well learned, and a great story to tell. The Alligator will not let go! The Mother will not let go! How did the Mother win the tug-of-war? That is what this forum is all about. Do we play a part in the Mother winning the war (Remember how DeAnna and I argued about that one)? Must we also hold on to the Mother, or can we give in to the Alligator? I'll bet the Mother also has scars. Where in the world is the Father? Why in all HIS creation would he allow an alligator access to the swimming hole HE created for his kids? Oh, this is a good story!

Sincerely, Spying

**Scarlet** · 05-04-2002, 09:55 AM

tilps

Split,

Werd up...he he he. Happy sabbath...poo...i'm late...gotta go. Peace.

luhcs darb (scar)

**israelthebride** · 05-12-2002, 04:43 PM

YHWH knows what HE is DOING.

I happened on this post and read it. My son and I had just talked about how YHWH had scattered HIS BODY from YERU'SHALOM after STEPHEN's murder.

WE talked about what these people must have thought and how they must have felt with such a drastic move. What would they be saying? Why did there have to be a murder?

Then, I read this post and I knew. Sometimes, WE get comfortable with what WE are doing for YHWH, it becomes "movements" instead of WORSHIP. WE would not have moved away from those "movements" if it had been left to US. WE love to feel glorified in our work.

YHWH will allow something drastic to get HIS BODY moving, so that it will "multiply", the very first COMMAND. YHWH broke up the YERU'SHALOM group to "multiply" into a bigger BODY.

So, it is with US. I have been moved over and over again, from places I thought really needed my revelations through HOLY SPIRIT; from people I really loved. I hated leaving/moving. I was comfortable. YHWH knows better.
Any YHWH move is BETTER!!! I have found myself way out here in the country wondering what I am doing here. Last night I found out.

Whatever the situation, YHWH is in control. YOU are exactly where YOU are supposed to be.
Now, BE YHWH's PRESENCE - there. That is where YHWH needs YOU and if YOU are HOLY SPIRIT, HE will leave YOU there until YOU submit to HOLY SPIRIT, again. YHWH LOVES YOU!!!

WE are ONE!!!

LOVE, RICOEL

**Rovivrus2** · 07-25-2002, 08:50 AM

Hello everyone,

Just wanted to share a recent poem. I'm adding it to this thread so that those who were writing here are notified.

Supposed To Be…..

Today is today
My mind only thinks my way
But don’t think for a moment
That my views can’t change

I used to think “this is it”
Whatever life is now
Might be altered a bit
But even then, I wasn’t sure how

I did not know that I could learn to consider
Consider for just long enough
The possibilities that are possible
When we rise above all of our “stuff”

I never knew that when that stoplight turns red
And we are forced to sit and wait
That the time in between, until that light turns green
Could be full of so much meaning, that I look forward to the wait

When I assume that I’m doomed
On one of those days that go all too wrong
I have learned to stop and re-think things
Until I feel better, and much more calm

More than ever I have learned to believe
As so many connections have convinced me
That all of the moments of my life
Are simply just as they were supposed to be.

Peace and love,
Rovivrus2

**Thummim** · 07-25-2002, 09:21 AM

If only the world knew what I already know.

...an interesting poem. Yes, we all know what we know. Now if only all people in this world, could know what I know, it would bring us all a world at peace. It is refreshing to find someone who thinks they could be wrong. And I am compelled to show them that they are right. Why is it so, that we all know what we know? Thank you Rovivrus2, for the insight.

....Michael

**Spying** · 07-26-2002, 09:12 AM

A Companion?

Hi Rovivus,

Thank you for sharing your poem, that is, if you are indeed ROVIVRUS! Does "Rovivrus2" indicate a new member or a new ROVIVRUS? No doubt, you should have noticed that I recognized the change in you some time ago when I started calling you "Rovivus". That is not your final name so no doubt there will be a Rovivrus3. If Rovivrus2 is indeed a new member, then allow me to welcome you to Lo Ammi. I have been waiting for others to make themselves known.

Rovivus, did you not write a paper about forgiveness that is companion to your poem? I can assure you that it is worth reading.

Love, Spying

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