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  • Thummim
    replied
    Righteous, but not without sin.

    Spying writes;

    You and your fellow Jews were made righteous long ago by a decree of YAHWEH so you no longer have need of the provisions of the Covenant that bring sanctification, purification, atonement, forgiveness, and remission for and of sins. As far as I can tell from your knowledge, you and the Jews have been personally pardoned and this grace and mercy belongs to you and yours forever simply because you are Jews and in spite of what you do with your life and walk.

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    ...I think that the difficult thing to get past in your faith, is that a sinner can be righteous. This does not mean that one has impunity to transgress the will of YHWH. Moses was righteous. Moses also sinned and offended YHWH to the point that he was left standing on the wrong side of the Jordan river. While he watched his people crossed the river without him, his people learned how important it was to "sanctify" YHWH's name. This name would be their defense against their enemies.

    10 And all people of the earth shall see that thou art called by the name of YHWH; and they shall be afraid of thee. Deut. 28: 10

    ...The people who crossed the river were also righteous. Yet they too, offended their Eloheem on what seems to be a regular basis. Even so, YHWH refused to allow them to be cursed. {by Balaam, as Malak sought} While maintaining the prison that existed for the lawbreakers, {Deut. 28}, YHWH showed that this people were righteous, though still transgressors. The unintentional sins could be dealt with by Aarons priesthood, but it took YHWH's own righteousness to heal his people. {keeping the law is always important} You have permission to believe in a people's righteousness while seeing their transgressions surround them. This is what our righteous GD see's in all of us. If he see's our transgressions, but wants to separate us as righteous, he must also see righteousness through the haze of our shortcomings. All Israel is righteous to him, even though all Israel isn't free of sin. But being righteous is the "key" to the prison door. Isa. 53 asks of it's servant, that he makes (all) Israel's seed, righteous. There is no option for this servant to fail. {even if rejected by men} He is to inherit those, whom he makes righteous. {Isa. 53: 12} While this all happens in the time of Cyrus, your messiah (jesus), as a renewed image of his predesessor, must do the same. YHWH want's his servant to prove his people righteous by his (knowledge). For this is what is wrong in this world. The world's people do not (know) that Israel is a righteous people. They treat JEWs as unrighteous. And yet, every tongue is to swear to this righteousness. What happens to those who contend with Israel's righteousness? Doesn't time, {the moth} eat them up? And when the valley of decision fills with the worlds peoples, isn't it so that YHWH can show his peoples righteousness, in the time of their oppresson? What have they done to this people, "YaHudaH", that YHWH is now called upon to make an appearance, on this day of his wrath? That YHWH clears his people every fifty years, of the debt's that have accumulated against them, is the fly in Jeremiah's ointment. They do not leave Babylon after seventy years in the prison, but rather after serving fifty years under YHWH's imposed imprisonment, within his law. It is fifty years that pass, until Cyrus makes his decree to rebuild Jerusalem. -586 BCE until - 536 should be the correct count of years. This is an example of righteous by the law. The thirty-fourth chapter of Jeremiah will explain why this year was the exceptable year of YHWH's redemption. It tells us that YHWH was upset when his captives were not set free, as they should have been. There is seven sevens to the fiftieth year, and there are fifty fifties until Israel re-inhabits the land of Israel forever. I think this is what you have been looking for, to validate Israel's renewed claim upon the land. {one by law} Wouldn't YHWH do it this way? After a very long time, Israel is again, a nation. Though a little naked, {Israel without knowledge of their GD's name} he that owns the red thread can claim the name of GD, {YaHudah}, and wrap all Israel in it. {a garment of "praise"} This garment of "praise" is very precious. Understanding the "book", only comes in understanding the name of YHWH. Through his name, he {YHWH's righteous servant} will end the assault that all JEWs have endured against themselves, some by moslems, but most by christians. The root of Jesse is Yahudah, the tribe that "bears" the name of "YHWH". The banner of Yahudah is raised in the name of GD.

    10 And in that day there shall be a root of Jesse, {one of twelve} which shall stand for an ensign of the people; to it shall the "nations" {of Israel "vs. 12"} seek: and his rest shall be glorious. {as the name of YHWH is shown as glory in Ex. 34} Isa. 11: 10

    5 We will rejoice in thy salvation, and (**in the name of our God we will set up our banners**): YHWH fulfil all thy petitions. Isa. 20: 5 KJV.

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    I Have Weakness And Many Needs!

    Hi Thummim,

    Good morning, and thank you for your well intentioned wishes! My Just One, Messiah Yahushua, is the fulfillment of every sacrifice required of me by the Torah. How this fulfillment all works together timewise and with respect to location is beyond my understanding; eventhough, I have been seeking to understand exactly how everything works together for most of my adult life. You are extremely perceptive to recognize my weakness in this area?

    And so, yes, I do have many other needs besides the ones that I have already listed for you. I need many things. I need an altar. I need a high priest. I need a priesthood. I need a Holy Place. I need an inner Altar. I need a Holy of Holies. I need a Mercy Seat. I have need of many other things too numerous to mention in this post. Thus, I do have need of a source of grace and mercy greater than myself. "By myself I have sworn!"

    You, on the other hand, have need of none of these things so why do you even waste any brain power concerning them or place them on your lips? You and your fellow Jews were made righteous long ago by a decree of YAHWEH so you no longer have need of the provisions of the Covenant that bring sanctification, purification, atonement, forgiveness, and remission for and of sins. As far as I can tell from your knowledge, you and the Jews have been personally pardoned and this grace and mercy belongs to you and yours forever simply because you are Jews and in spite of what you do with your life and walk. I have not this awareness or consciousness.

    So, I will pursue those things which you have cast aside and no longer need or value. I have and will pursue as a dog (celeb) the crumbs that you have let fall from your table.

    You see, I do have a sense that I am going to die. This means that death has already touched me. I have already been defiled by death through the power of sin. The Law is the power of sin. Now, I want to live, and it is very difficult for me to understand why no one anymore desires to live? I don't understand why we all so meekly go to our graves, but that is my problem. You have not that problem because it does not matter if a Jew sins. You have been declared righteous. You no longer have need of a Savior, a Messiah. You have your name, and that is your salvation. Humm, so I suppose that Jews no longer die unless they are led to the slaughter?

    As for me and my family, I will seek the help that comes through "By myself I have sworn!" I will seek HIS lawful, spiritual purification from sin and death, and I will seek the knowledge and understanding that the Just One, Messiah Yahushua, brings to me through this purification. After all, purification from death is possible or it would not be the Law! So, I seek life! I seek to live!

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    Misunderstandings.

    Hab 2:4
    4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the Tzaddik shall live by his faith. (KJV)

    ...He righteous shall live by "their own" faith. They do not live by the faith of the unrighteous man. This is a mistake that is often made by those who only read the KJV. The author makes a scathing accusation of this corrupt leader. As to the altar, we must remember that there is no atonement for intentional sin. This fact skews our understanding of sin offerings. It is YHWH that makes the transgressor righteous by forgiving his sin. If he sins unintentionally, he can bring his offering to the priest. {assuming he is bound to the covenant}

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    Spying writes;

    I must work to make my people righteous.

    ...Spying, only YHWH can make a person righteous by forgiving their transgression. A forgiven person is a righteous person. An unforgiven person is always due YHWH's angst. There is one people who cannot be in the wrath of YHWH. It's for you to figure out why.

    9 For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee. Isa. 54: 9

    The waters of Noah come with YHWH's promise. Never again

    If you doubt this author, then doubt him also in the case of Isaiah's fifty-third chapter.

    ...No more anger, infers righteousness. The author tells you which people are found righteous forever, unto the end of the world. And this vindication takes place in the time of Cyrus. See, a knowledgeable servant of YHWH, can prove a righteous people, (all) righteous!

    17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and (**every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn**). (**This is the "heritage" of the servants of YHWH, and their righteousness is of "me", saith YHWH**). Isa. 54: 17

    ...You really hate the righteousness of this people. But YHWH wants them to be righteous, so he makes them righteous. Is forgivness of sin, for the righteous? Does the righteous man need forgiveness? Moses certainly did. But he was still righteous. YHWH makes him righteous. But you say, "how can the sinner be righteous? I say, the forgiven of YHWH, are (all) righteous. YHWH said that he has vindicated the sinners and transgressors amoung his people, in Isa. 44: 22. Who then is left unforgiven of YHWH's people? The clouds of of YHWH {the name} surrounds YHWH's righteous servant. {so I've been told} He will make the multitude of YHWH's people, righteous by his knowledge. This (jesus) didn't do. You are proof of that.

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    Spying writes;

    Now, if you are the Just One, what is it that you can do for me, the sinner? Well, Thummim, it just so happens that I have need to come before YAHWEH ELOHIM with a burnt offering for my atonement. You see, I didn't believe, I didn't keep the Law. I sinned.

    ...and if you are in covenant to YHWH, your atonement will take care of the sins that you did not intend. But without YHWH's forgiveness, your atonement will do you no good. To think, you have disallowed this blanket of forgiveness for the covenanted ones. They are forgiven, but you are not. Isn't this what (jesus) teaches in the NT? And to think, you didn't believe him.

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    Spying writes;

    I need a Red Heifer.

    ...Have you touched death? Perhaps you have. But a red heifer will do nothing for your unintentional sins. These ashes are for intentional impurity that comes from having touched death. This impurity you cannot bring back into the camp of the righteous ones. To enter the camp, is to defile the sanctuary of YHWH. For unintentional sin {if this is what you are interested in atoning for}, you will need more than a red heifer {red female cow}, you will need many other offerings. Still, you will have to deal with your intentional sins, afterwards. For these, there is no atonement.

    28 And the priest shall make an atonement for the soul that sinneth ignorantly, when he sinneth by ignorance before YHWH, to make an atonement for him; and it shall be forgiven him.

    29 Ye shall have one law for him that sinneth through ignorance, both for him that is born among the children of Israel, and for the stranger that sojourneth among them.

    30 But the soul that doeth ought presumptuously, whether he be born in the land, or a stranger, the same reproacheth YHWH; and that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

    31 Because he hath despised the word of YHWH, and hath broken his commandment, that soul shall utterly be cut off; his iniquity shall be upon him. Nu. 15: 28 - 31

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    Your pascel offering

    16 And in the fourteenth day of the first month is the passover of YHWH.

    17 And in the fifteenth day of this month is the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

    18 In the first day shall be an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work therein:

    19 But ye shall offer a sacrifice made by fire for a burnt offering unto YHWH; two young bullocks, and one ram, and seven lambs of the first year: they shall be unto you without blemish:

    20 And their meat offering shall be of flour mingled with oil: three tenth deals shall ye offer for a bullock, and two tenth deals for a ram;

    21 A several tenth deal shalt thou offer for every lamb, throughout the seven lambs:

    22 And one goat for a sin offering, to make an atonement for you.

    23 Ye shall offer these beside the burnt offering in the morning, which is for a continual burnt offering.

    24 After this manner ye shall offer daily, throughout the seven days, the meat of the sacrifice made by fire, of a sweet savour unto YHWH: it shall be offered beside the continual burnt offering, and his drink offering. Nu. 28: 16 - 24

    ...Your messiah is supposed to be a "pascel offering", isn't he?

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    5 O my people, remember now what Balak king of Moab consulted, and what Balaam the son of Beor answered him from Shittim unto Gilgal; (**that ye may know the righteousness of YHWH**).

    6 Wherewith shall I come before YHWH, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

    7 Will YHWH be pleased with thousands of rams, or with ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

    8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth YHWH require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?

    9 YHWH'S voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see thy "name": hear ye the rod, and who hath appointed it. Mi. 6: 5 - 9

    ...I really wish that you could understand. Baruch Hashem,

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    THE JUST ONE

    Hi Thummim,
    Trying to gain your righteousness only out of keeping the law, is doomed to fail if all men are sinners through it. Who is he that hasn't sinned? He who gives the law, is the only one who can forgive it's lawbreakers. And he has.
    This is your thinking and reasoning, Thummim, and your reasoning is only partially correct. This is not the full perspective of YAHWEH ELOHIM. HE said:
    Isa 45:23
    23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness,..... (KJV)
    To be sure, as you note, according to the scriptures, all men have sinned. On the one hand, the whole nation of Israel became sinners after the giving of and acceptance of the Law. Did Israel ask for the Law? No, they did not. Did Israel command YAHWEH concerning which commandments they be given? No, they did not. So, Israel was given righteousness to perform solely at the discretion of YAHWEH when Israel was given the Law (Moses did have some later input). Accordingly, this righteousness to perform is in the nature of a gift. You could call it a marriage gift if you are so inclined. With the acceptance of this righteousness, this gift, Israel almost immediately sinned. So, we can readily state and conclude as you have above that "all men are sinners through it (the Law)." Thus, the Law gives both righteousness and sin. Why would YAHWEH ELOHIM give Israel the gift of sin? Has HE not sworn by HIMSELF?

    Under the right circumstances, sin can become righteousness if all men are sinners save for one. It is written:
    Hab 2:4
    4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the Tzaddik shall live by his faith. (KJV)
    It is also written:
    Ezek 18:20
    20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die..... (KJV)
    In the right hands, our prison becomes freedom if there is only one who should take the Law to heart and believe that the Law can be kept. Now, there is a danger here. Let's say that I fully believe from the beginning that I can keep the Law. What do I have? I have life and righteousness if I should do so, but what good does this life and righteousness do for me if I remain alone? Living forever by yourself is also a prison. So, if I am the one who can accomplish the Law, then I must guard against having a soul which is lifted up against my people. I must work to make my people righteous. This takes faith. The Tzaddik believes that He can help the sinner become a saint. The Tzaddik actually believes that the sinner can repent and live as YAHWEH does teach us all through his servant Ezekiel. This is the fundamental role of the Messiah, and this role is accomplished in righteousness. The Jewish Messiah is the JUST ONE, and it was with great expectation that the Jews were looking for his coming two thousand years ago.

    Now, if you are the Just One, what is it that you can do for me, the sinner? Well, Thummim, it just so happens that I have need to come before YAHWEH ELOHIM with a burnt offering for my atonement. You see, I didn't believe, I didn't keep the Law. I sinned. So, I need to offer a sacrifice. For my atonement, I need a whole burnt offering, and for my purification, I need a Red Heifer. Where in all the world am I going to find these things. By myself, I have sworn. What are the chances that YAHWEH ELOHIM just might provide me with these sacrifices? The chances are very good if I like Abraham have faith in HIS word and place my trust and hope in YAHWEH. In order to be my sacrifice, this Just One is going to suffer a tremendous amount of abuse. It is horrible to contemplate all of the things required by the Law happening to one human being, but it is necessary if I am to have atonement and peace.

    So, I can believe, can I not, that I can bring a sacrifice through faith in the Just One if and when the Just One does manifest himself?

    Now, why is this faith necessary? This is no atonement without the death of the sinner. There is no peace without the death of the sinner. I cannot become truly one with an animal, but I can become one with another human being. Through the sacrifice of the JUST ONE (sacrifice is also the righteousness of ELOHIM), I can prove to YAHWEH ELOHIM that I, the sinner, have died. If I have truly died, then there is peace. So, what do I need? I need several things. I need the Just One. I need the Law, and I need faith. I need all these things to work together for my good. There is one other thing that I need: I need to be a sinner, don't I? So you see, through the work of the Just One, it can be seen that YAHWEH ELOHIM has given to me the gift of righteousness at the very same time HE gave to me the gift of sin through the Law. Thanks be to Messiah Yahushua that HIS heart was upright in him!!

    Have a good Sabbath Day, Thummim.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    The theif cometh to kill, rob and plunder the people.

    Spying writes;

    This statement by Paul is 100% in agreement with James, and both James and Paul are 100% in disagreement with your idea of anyone being justified by decree.

    ...Do you realize how foolish you sound? Are you trying to tell me that YHWH cannot declare his people to be righteous? But he did exactly that. Trying to gain your righteousness only out of keeping the law, is doomed to fail if all men are sinners through it. Who is he that hasn't sinned? He who gives the law, is the only one who can forgive it's lawbreakers. And he has.


    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ELOHIM, and (**it was imputed unto him for righteousness**): and he was called the Friend of ELOHIM.

    ...By whom was it imputed unto him for righteousness? Do you mean that YHWH decreed Abraham to be righteous? But how can he do that with the limitations that you impose upon YHWH. Either he can decree righteousness, or he cannot.

    ...YHWH's decree of righteousness, is the only key to the prison of the law. His people were set free!


    Rom 2:13
    13 For not the hearers of the law are just before ELOHIM, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (KJV)

    ...But who justifies? Isn't it he who declares one to be righteous? The decree is more than the law. Without the key, you are trapped in the prison.

    I, even I, am he that blotteth out thy transgressions (**for mine own sake**), --> and will not remember thy sins. Isa. 43: 25

    (**I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins**): return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. Isa. 44: 22


    ...It all seems very plain to me. YHWH has vindicated his people, by his own decree.


    Spying writes;

    Even if this righteousness is a gift, this still does not rule out the possibility that all of us have been given a gift or grace of doing the commandments of YAHWEH through Messiah Yahushua, does it not?

    ...What you don't seem to get, is that (jesus) did not make his people righteous with his knowledge. He instead deemed them unrighteous. His words are not "all righteous", neither is he in the right time to open the two leaved gates of Babylon, to release the prisoners.

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    Righteousness Comes Not By Decree!

    Hi Ben YAHWEH and Thummim,

    Well, it does seem that you two do agree concerning the righteousness of Israel that it is by decree. I would have you look at another possibility, and this is not easy to teach or explain so bear with me.

    Abraham's belief was credited to him as righteousness. Thus, the act of belief is like unto righteousness, but belief is not righteousness. Righteousness is the commandments of YAHWEH ELOHIM. One can only have righteousness by doing righteousness. James expresses it in this manner:
    James 2:19-24
    19 Thou believest that there is one ELOHIM; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble.
    20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
    21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?
    22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
    23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed ELOHIM, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of ELOHIM.
    24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified (made righteous), and not by faith only. (KJV)
    Paul made this statement about becoming righteous:
    Rom 2:13
    13 For not the hearers of the law are just before ELOHIM, but the doers of the law shall be justified. (KJV)
    This statement by Paul is 100% in agreement with James, and both James and Paul are 100% in disagreement with your idea of anyone being justified by decree.

    On the other hand, there is a righteousness that is a gift (Romans 5:17). Even if this righteousness is a gift, this still does not rule out the possibility that all of us have been given a gift or grace of doing the commandments of YAHWEH through Messiah Yahushua, does it not? Do you see the distinction that I am asking you to make in your minds? You think that YAHWEH will decree to the each of you, righteousness, or you think that YAHWEH has decreed to you righteousness. I am asking you to consider the circumstances whereby YAHWEH can make you righteous by actually giving to the both you, as a gift, a doing of the Law. If YAHWEH gives to us a doing of HIS commandments, and when we examine the issue, we see that we have actually done as commanded, then we actually are righteous, are we not? And this righteousness is not by decree. It is by doing. Do you grasp with I am saying here or the distinction that I am attempting to make?

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    All righteous!

    ...Good to here from you, Ben Yahweh. I missed your input. Here is your quote on righteousness;

    To be made alive, as I have so often stated T, is to be reborn, is to have your spirit vivified (made alive) because it dwells with YVHV. And this can only happen when YHVH accounts to you righteousness, in order that 2 can walk together in agreement on the terms of the relationship. That is, you are termed righteous, (a position relative only to your relationship towards that One who constituted you being such, YHVH). Righteousness is not a quality of being, but a decree.

    ...Are we agreed, that (all) israel has been deemed "righteous" by their Eloheem, saved with an everlasting righteousness upon leaving the captivity of Babylon? Let me try to make the decree of YHWH, simple.

    17 But Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation: ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded world without end. Isa. 45: 17 {this paragraph of text is still in the same paragraph as Isa. 45: 1 which names Cyrus the messiah.}

    ...The following two verses of text both lock this time to Cyrus.

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    28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid. Isa. 44: 28

    13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts. Isa. 45: 13

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    ...That the remission of all sin has occured is stated in the following verse;

    22 I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee. Isa. 44: 22

    ...Isaiah expands upon the theme of the everlasting righteousness of his people which belongs to this time. {that of Cyrus}

    ...The author explains the righteousness of (all) Israel in the latter verses of Isaiah's 45th chapter.

    23 I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

    24 Surely, shall one say, in YHWH have I righteousness and strength: even to him shall men come; and all that are incensed against him shall be ashamed.

    25 In YHWH shall all the seed of Israel be justified, and shall glory. Isa. 45: 23 - 25

    ...What is sworn, but that (all) Israel is righteous? {verse 24} The following verse of text {vs. 25} declares, "In YHWH, (all) the seed of Israel is righteous". (justified = tzadeku = righteous) YHWH confirms this in verse 17 of Isaiah's 54th chapter.

    17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and (**every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn {those who accuse Israel of guilt}**). This is the heritage of the servants of YHWH, and (**their righteousness is of me**), saith YHWH. Isa. 54: 17

    ...Now you know that (all) Israel is to be found righteous. But then, didn't YHWH find his people (all) righteous in the time of Cyrus, his anointed one, Isa. 45: 1 {messiah}? Most christians abhor calling the JEWish people, righteous. But YHWH has declared them to be so. Read this material and answer me. Have the JEWish people a decree of righteousness {unto the end of the world {world without end}? Forget that you are a christian for a moment, and declare (all) Israel to be righteous.

    ....Michael

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  • Ben Yahweh
    replied
    Spirit, Spirits and Spirituality

    Hello again, Been very busy working as of late, sorry not able to get back with you sooner T and spying.

    Spirit is = 2 the breath of YHVH, my personal spirit is that which is neither my conscience or my flesh, but animates them both.

    Spirits

    are created beings from that substance have the same substance as their essense. They also are on a differant realm than ours. Their is some interaction. I personnally have seen what T is so afraid of, up close. And no! it wasn't a psycological thing. It was all the above. They do not have a physical body, as we do for, again, they are not of our realm, but can coexist. Spirits can reinforce a persons views or enhance something they agree on. But They Can not by brut force impale themselves into a unwilling person. Sin is their strong hold, They attach themselves to a person where sin is envolved. Or pass down through family curses, Sin, and bondages. Modern man calls it other things, but my experience tells me a whole lot more. To many examples to list, but you don't have to take my word for it. Their presence doesn't mean the Exorcism type or what that movie conjured up for you all, but very cold air centrally located about a person, and contortions of their skin and bones do occur. Also, there is the occational male voice out of a little girl that makes your hair stand on end. I see it like this. I now Japan exists because of books, movies, and others telling me so. I have never been there. But if I get the chance and go, then it will be more meaningful than just hearing about it. Now IF I lived in the desert of california, with a pop of 80, and no tv then I might not think it exists or is really such a place where dragons and nijas and so exist. Yes this is a bit shelterd. But that is my point. Exposure to the truth is half the understanding. I have faith for people to get healed. but until I experienced a miracle, it was just that, faith. No it is a reality for me. Just as Demons and spirits that associate themselves with a person, as possessed.

    Spirituality,

    Well T, you have none, or so I understand from your contempt for the spirit, from what you have written, (if this is wrong sorry I misunderstood it). You are a naturalist and I respect that, and in many ways I am too. I have seen so many christians get caught up in spirituality they forget the natural. I say this, YHVH made us both. You see, we have a Living soul,(our conscience, heart, inward parts, disposition, character,) because of 2 things. That YHVH made a shell of clay, and breathed into it the very life souce of the universe and called it a living soul, (this is the first mention by the way of SOUL). Spirituality, is living in the tru nature we we born into as being in the image and likeness of YHVH. Pseudo-Spirituality is false and uses mind games (flesh) to control and manipulate others, situations, etc it is very evident when this happens. This is the psycic realm (eg Psycic -psuke-hotline!). Neuma is spirit, is the very life souce given us by Father. To be made alive, as I have so often stated T, is to be reborn, is to have your spirit vivified (made alive) because it dwells with YVHV. And this can only happen when YHVH accounts to you righteousness, in order that 2 can walk together in agreement on the terms of the relationship. That is, you are termed righteous, (a position relative only to your relationship towards that One who constituted you being such, YHVH). Righteousness is not a quality of being, but a decree. Righteous acts on the otherhand, are different. Abraham merely belived. He did no act, and it was attributed to him BY YHVH, as righteousness, so that they can continue a relationship. That righteousness is not something that can be bought, sold packaged, birthed, confired on by another. It is Given only from the One from whom righteousness is Demanded. For this purpose, that he who is rightwized by YHVH, can now come into the presence of YHVH, or request of Him, and be heard, etc... And out of this standing, you may come to the throne and His Temple to dwell with the El of the Elohim, YHVH. Having the name associated with your righteousness is what Israel has. And each personage having this confired and proven through experientuality is grand, but WITHOUT the interaction, communion within the temple, we are all lost. I have a living El, and His name is YHVH. And Isreal may have a inheritance of that name, and that is grand, but I seek Him who is the Giver of the life and the name, and I worship Him who is the Creator of life, and am accepted because I headed him who was sent by my El, the elohim Yahshua. Yahshua, an elohim, prophet and man, was sent to tell us all something. That Our El loves us. He lived an exemplified life that shows us how to follow the covenantal decrees, but has included all mankind in the new covenant. You know the text. I am not saying that Israels blessing to done stopped, over or taken away, I am saying Jer 30-31. I know, it is for Isreal, but he is sowed man and animal. Now YHVH is not into beastiality, so it can only be that they too, will be under this new covenant.

    Thats my opinion

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  • Thummim
    replied
    YHWH's gathering of names.

    Spying writes;

    but being in charge does not mean that one will not have opposition,

    ...Spying, I couldn't agree with you more. Opposition is anything that wrestles with the intent of YHWH. However, his opposition isn't a world of demons, who occupy mens souls. There still isn't a single demon that is cast out of a person, in the tanakh. As to dreams being useful to YHWH, they are. But the world of YHWH is a real world. It's the same world that we live in. He is the Eloheem of life, and not death. He doesn't even like to touch death. He will gather his name back to himself when it reaches the end of this life. He now can hold (all) Israel in the name of YaHudaH. I'm not sure that this wasn't his plan all along. Any anti-semite will have a real surprise coming when they finally meet YHWH in the {later-world}.

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    The gathering

    8 Then Abraham gave up the ghost, and died in a good old age, an old man, and full of years; and was gathered to his people. Gen. 25: 8

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    17 And these are the years of the life of Ishmael, an hundred and thirty and seven years: and he gave up the ghost and died; and was gathered unto his people. Gen. 25: 17

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    29 And Isaac gave up the ghost, and died, and was gathered unto his people, being old and full of days: and his sons Esau and Jacob buried him. Gen. 35: 29

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    29 And he charged them, and said unto them, I am to be gathered unto my people: (bury me, {not the gathering}) with my fathers in the cave that is in the field of Ephron the Hittite, Gen. 49: 29

    33 And when Jacob had made an end of commanding his sons, he gathered up his feet into the bed, and yielded up the ghost, (and was gathered unto his people).

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    50 And die in the mount whither thou goest up, and be gathered unto thy people; as Aaron thy brother died in mount Hor, and was gathered unto his people: Deut. 32: 50

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    ...Moses was gathered to his people, though they had crossed the jordan without him. The gathering then, is to their respective names. Each people has a name. YHWH also has a name. To be gathered to this name must be extra special. His name, is a name of life that lives within our own world, with us. It's not exactly heaven, but invokable. This "gathering" is not christian in concept. It's about belonging to a name. Trying to destroy the name of YaHudaH, is like trying to destroy the name of GD. The difference between the faith of christianity, and the faith of these tribesmen who came from Ur, is quite plain to me. The evolution of thought has created homes in heaven, which reflect our own world.

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    The True Realm?

    Hi Thummim,

    No where have I argued that YAHWEH is not in charge, but being in charge does not mean that one will not have opposition, and being in charge does not guarantee that one will always be in charge. Pride goeth before a fall.

    Dreams and sleep are just as much a part of the true realm of YAHWEH as snakes. I am surprised that you would think otherwise.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    Sleep?

    9 Yet heard I the voice of his words: and when I heard the voice of his words, (*then was I in a deep sleep*) on my face, and my face toward the ground. Dan. 10: 9

    ...I have dreamed many strange things in my life. All the rules are broken in this place. This is where Danial recieved his answer. In this place, a kingdom can withstand YHWH's purpose. In the realm of sleep, the angels move in abundance. But is this place, the true realm of YHWH? Danial gets his answer here, in his sleep. We've probably all discovered certain truths about ourselves and others, in our sleep. But we cannot use this place to set our reason in. We draw examples from the dreams that we remember, but must reason those memories in a real world. This does not remove YHWH from his throne. He's still in charge. The exorcist is still out of business in the world of the tanakh.

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    21

    Hi Thummim,

    Ok, I understand that you were not sufficiently impressed by that example so allow me to give you another:
    Dan 10:12-14
    12 Then said he unto me, Fear not, Daniel: for from the first day that thou didst set thine heart to understand, and to chasten thyself before thy ELOHIM, thy words were heard, and I am come for thy words.
    13 But the prince of the kingdom of Persia withstood me one and twenty days: but, lo, Michael, one of the chief princes, came to help me; and I remained there with the kings of Persia.
    14 Now I am come to make thee understand what shall befall thy people in the latter days: for yet the vision is for many days. (KJV)
    Now, I suppose that you might argue that the princes that are in conflict above are mortal men in much the same manner that you have just argued that the serpent is a snake and not Satan, but Daniel does call the one who came as an answer to his prayer, "ADOWN". If the prince of Persia stood with ADOWN, let's say in conference or something of that nature and not in conflict, then why did the prince, Michael, come to help ADOWN? So, there are powers that operate against the will of YAHWEH. Twenty and one days should have taught you that.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    Soulbugs?

    ...Isn't a serpent, a snake? while this one may have had legs before YHWH cursed him, their was no danger that he would inhabit someones soul. He went from walking to crawling, so that his head could be stepped on, and so he could get a better shot at someones heal.

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    12 And YHWH said unto Satan, Behold, all that he hath is in thy power; only upon himself put not forth thine hand. So Satan went forth from the presence of YHWH. Job 1: 12

    ...It seems to me that YHWH is in charge here. Neither does satan occupy Job's soul, that he gain the need for an exorcist.

    ...These references are not like casting demons out of pigs and people.

    ....Michael

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  • Spying
    replied
    Rebellion!

    Hi Thummim,
    Show me some devils or demons, who operate outside of YHWH's will, within the tanakh.
    How about this one?:
    Gen 3:14
    14 And YAHWEH ELOHIM said unto the serpent, Because thou hast done this, thou art cursed above all cattle, and above every beast of the field; upon thy belly shalt thou go, and dust shalt thou eat all the days of thy life: (KJV)
    Job 1:7
    7 And YAHWEH said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered YAHWEH, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. (KJV)
    Obviously, walking is not according to the expressed will of YAHWEH.

    Sincerely, Spying

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  • Thummim
    replied
    Differing Faiths?

    ...Ben Yahweh, my point is that you can watch faith evolve. The words of the various writings of the tanakh, are refered to by even the authors who pen the tanakh. All the authors have added something to the faith. One author holds accountabilty to the third and fourth generation of all Israel. Another author makes the transgressions of men, personal and of individual accountability. How sin is dealt with, changes over time. It can be shown, that Israel's sins were dealt with in a blanket fashion, when they left Babylon. An (all) righteous people meet (jesus), according to Isaiah, in the 45th chapter of his book. This of course, does (jesus) little good, since he can't save the people "physically", or a sinless people, "spiritually". I've pointed to some of the changes that herold the evolution of the faith. In the early chapters of the tanakh, the angels do not introduce themselves by name. {see Gen. 32: 29, Jud. 13: 18} In Danial, they do. The NT does not represent the same faith, as the JEWish people were already practicing when (jesus) showed up. Saving ones soul {what is the soul?} is something NT. Most JEWs, are not christian. In any case, you seem to understand some of what I've said in my post. Show me some devils or demons, who operate outside of YHWH's will, within the tanakh. Show me a demon that is cast out of a person. And sheol is not hell, but rather the grave, where all the living go irregardless of their sinful state. How does christianity become trivial? Is an idol of flesh, less than an idol of wood, stone or metal? I question often, to expose the truth. Can't you read this in everything that I post? While sometimes I explore the grey areas of the texts, I do on occasion uncover new insight through this practice. Though I read the texts of the tanakh to gather in a blessing for all Yahudeem, I also gather in the truth.

    ....Baruch Hashem

    ....Michael

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