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  • #31
    Being The Name!

    Hi Thummim,

    Good day to you and yours.

    I learned from AntotiYAH that Shiloh is considered Messianic by Judaism. Did not the scepter depart at the time of the Romans? Judah was conquered, and her king blinded long ago. Since that time, there have been many dispersions and captivities and sever persecutions of the Yahudim all over the world. What are you telling me, Thummim? Are you telling me that the NAME is not strong enough to deliver and protect the Yahudim?:
    Ps 54:1-3
    1 Save me, O ELOHIM, by thy name, and judge me by thy strength.
    2 Hear my prayer, O ELOHIM; give ear to the words of my mouth.
    3 For strangers are risen up against me, and oppressors seek after my soul: they have not set ELOHIM before them. Selah. (KJV)
    To be sure, the scriptures speak about unjust oppression by those who do not fear HIS most holy and righteous NAME, but surely the arm of YAHWEH is not so short that it cannot save those that belong to HIM and bear HIS NAME. Thummim, you are too parochial in your thinking. Quit preaching smooth and flattering words to the Yahudim. All Israel bears the NAME of YAHWEH:
    Num 6:23-27
    23 Speak unto Aaron and unto his sons, saying, On this wise ye shall bless the children of Israel, saying unto them,
    24 YAHWEH bless thee, and keep thee:
    25 YAHWEH make his face shine upon thee, and be gracious unto thee:
    26 YAHWEH lift up his countenance upon thee, and give thee peace.
    27 And they shall put my name upon the children of Israel; and I will bless them. (KJV)
    Why are you against blessing and salvation being given to all Israel? Why do you preach salvation to the lawgiver, but destruction upon the head of Ephraim?
    Ps 60:7
    7 Gilead is mine, and Manasseh is mine; Ephraim also is the strength of mine head; Judah is my lawgiver; (KJV)
    You fabricate blessing and salvation for Yahudah while ignoring the sufferings of Ephraim and all the other tribes. We are all over the world, and we are among the Palestinians:
    Ps 119:160
    160 Thy word is true from the beginning: and every one of thy righteous judgments endureth for ever. (KJV)
    And while this is very true of all of us, this is also our collective repetitive history:
    Ps 78:60-62
    60 So that he forsook the tabernacle of Shiloh, the tent which he placed among men;
    61 And delivered his strength into captivity, and his glory into the enemy's hand.
    62 He gave his people over also unto the sword; and was wroth with his inheritance. (KJV)
    Yahushua has recovered that glory, and Yahudah does reign through Messiah Yahushua, and Yahushua is the shepherd of all of us. Yahushua rules Ephraim, and, yes, Shiloh does come.

    Sincerely, Spying
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


    • #32
      All Israel is saved in, and by the name of YHWH.

      Spying writes;
      Why are you against blessing and salvation being given to all Israel? Why do you preach salvation to the lawgiver, but destruction upon the head of Ephraim?

      ...Spying, if the tribe of Yahudah can give birth to his brethren, as the author shares with us in Isa. 48: 1, than Yahudah is Israel. Ephraim is covered. YHWH has shown himself to be the mother of this people, just twenty-six verses earlier in the text. {Isa. 46: 3,4} As you have written, YHWH's name being "put" {"linked" in the JPS} upon Israel, is to be a blessing for YHWH's people. But how do you "put" the name of YHWH upon YHWH's own, if it has been forgotten? {Ps. 44: 20} The knowledge of Urim and Thummim must accompany the name of YHWH. But Ezra and Nehemiah show it lost. With this loss comes also the loss of the Shekinah (the name of YHWH in a dark cloud {YHWH's glory}) As you wrote, the blessing of Israel comes through YHWH's name. {link names} When the gross darkness, leaves the people of YHWH, GD's glory will rise to replace it, and the glory of YHWH's name is then seen upon Israel, it being a garment of {praise}. {Praise Yah --> Yahudah}, or "Yahudah". The reality of the "one name" of the King of Glory, who is sits upon Davids throne {said to be YHWH himself, {not jesus} in Zech. 14: 9}, concludes the naming of the "image of GD". YHWH, in the tribe of Yahudah, where the throne can be found} becomes the blessing of the JEWish people. {an already (all) righteous people, as I have shown you.} It is YHWH's name that makes the throne of David an everlasting throne. {Ps. 89: 24 - 29} YHWH has wrapped (all) of his people in his name. This is that "remnant", that he says he will bring through the fire. These who came out of the ovens, bear the name of YHWH literally. Upon these has his glory risen, and his name will be made known to the world in time. Your real complaint is that you want to give this blessing that belongs to YHWH's chosen people, to (jesus) and the X -tianities. This will never be. At best, you only get one part to share among yourselves. Though I suppose that if you inherited a single place in YHWH's name, all the X -tianities could try to pack themselves in. Everlasting life does go with the name of YHWH. But what did the X -tianities give to the JEWish people? As they have done to YHWH's peoples, it has been done to them. The X -tianities do not deserve anything more. Read the end of the NT. How many JEWs are saved, and how many of everbody else? This makes an astounding ratio of JEWs to gentiles. Rev. 7: 9 x Rev. 7: 4 --> 144000 to an uncountable number of gentiles? Is this an anti-semitic heaven, or not?



      • #33
        Still "all" righteous, in the name of YHWH!

        Spying writes;

        You fabricate blessing and salvation for Yahudah

        ...These are daring words, coming from someone who cannot make a consession to the covenant of YHWH, and the land that he gives to his people, and from one who cannot give his blessing to the name of Yahudah. {the name of YHWH} So, which part of Israel's everlasting salvation do you disagree with? Try moving {Isa. 45: 17} out of the time of Cyrus.

        17 But (**Israel shall be saved in YHWH with an everlasting salvation**): ye shall not be ashamed nor confounded (**world without end**). Isa. 45: 17

        ...An everlasting salvation, world without end. It does say this, doesn't it? At this time, the seed of Jacob is captive in Babylon. YHWH (himself), through his prophet Isaiah, says in verse 13, speaking of Cyrus;

        13 I have raised him up in righteousness, and I will direct all his ways: he shall build my city, and he shall let go my captives, not for price nor reward, saith YHWH of hosts.

        ...This verse of text is a virtual repeat of Isa. 44: 28;

        28 That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.

        ...Now, where do we disagree? Are we locked firmly into the time of Cyrus? Cyrus is even called the messiah, in Isa. 45: 1, and he delivers. Are the captives about to be freed by a decree of their Eloheem? This verse of text is in the same paragraph of text as is Isa. 45: 1, where Cyrus is proclaimed messiah.

        Thus saith YHWH to his {anointed --> messiah}, to Cyrus, whose right hand I have holden, to subdue nations before him; and I will loose the loins of kings, to open before him the two leaved gates; and the gates shall not be shut;

        ...We are also locked by paragraph, to the previously mentioned text of Isa. 45: 13 (he shall let my captives go free.) This used to be called salvation until christianity decided that saving "souls" was more important. YHWH doesn't save any souls in the tanakh that I know of. A decree of everlasting salvation, is what it is. If we move back only a chapter, we come to the righteousness of Israel;

        (*I have blotted out, as a thick cloud, thy transgressions, and, as a cloud, thy sins: return unto me; for I have redeemed thee*).

        ...Redemption doesn't just (draweth nigh, Lk. 21: 28), it is already there. This verse of text is also tied to Cyrus.

        Sing, O ye heavens; (*for YHWH hath done it--> already?): shout, ye lower parts of the earth: break forth into singing, ye mountains, O forest, and every tree therein: for YHWH hath {already} redeemed Jacob, and glorified himself in Israel. Isa. 44: 22, 23

        ...Why do you say that this salvation isn't everlasting, when YHWH says that it is? The prophet Isaiah says that YHWH {already} has forsaken his people, but now he will gather them. Read Isaiah 54: 7 - 10, as something that has "already" happened, and that is now being remedied.

        7 For a small moment have I {already} forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee. {now}

        8 In a little wrath {then} I hid my face from thee for a moment; but {now} with (*everlasting kindness*) will I have mercy on thee, saith YHWH thy Redeemer.

        9 For this is (*as the waters of Noah*) {as forever?} unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that (*I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee*) [forever?}.

        10 For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; (*but my kindness shall not depart from thee*) [forever?}, (*neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed*) {forever?}, saith YHWH that hath mercy on thee.

        ...These are not the kind of words that X -tians like to read. Does this mean that YHWH is not now, and was not since Babylon, been angry with his people? Could he have been, in the time of (jesus)? Does this mean that Israel was already saved with an everlasting salvation, long before (jesus) showed up? If the salvation is forever, than Isa. 53 must belong to the end of the captivity in Babylon, and not to the time of Rome. So what happened? Did YHWH's arm become to short to save? His name is his rod. This is not something to loose. Like Dorothy and her ruby slippers, I must presume that Israel has always had the power to crush her enemies. But the loss of Urim and Thummim reflect a loss of the knowledge of GD's name. Here, I like to bring in a piece of text from Micah.

        9 YHWH's voice crieth unto the city, and the man of wisdom shall see {thy name}: hear ye --> the rod, and "who" hath appointed it. Mi. 6: 9

        ...I'm a believer in the power held in the name of YHWH. As I've written before, it can command the readers of the tanakh, to believe that the earth can be planted before the heavens discover the sun, moon and stars. Isn't this fact, revelatory? We believe, because the "name" has commanded our belief. Spying, you need to revere the relationship between YHWH and his people. He will not leave them separate from himself.



        • #34
          Wearing The Name!

          Hi Thummim,

          I know that you have a prejudice against John because he seems in your mind to be anti-Semitic, but his account of Messiah's teaching and prayer on the night of Messiah's betrayal should be brought to your attention at this point. I am not asking you to look at the words of Yahushua through the eyes of Christianity. I am asking you to look at the words of Messiah through your own perception and understanding as you have contemplated the NAME:
          John 17:5-6
          5 And now, O Father, glorify thou me with thine own self with the glory which I had with thee before the world was.
          6 I have manifested thy NAME unto the men which thou gavest me out of the world: thine they were, and thou gavest them me; and they have kept thy word. (KJV)

          John 17:11-12
          11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own NAME those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.
          12 While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy NAME: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.(KJV)

          John 17:25-26
          25 O righteous Father, the world hath not known thee: but I have known thee, and these have known that thou hast sent me.
          26 And I have declared unto them thy NAME, and will declare it: that the love wherewith thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them. (KJV)
          It is obvious to me that Messiah is speaking about the very name which was forgotten by everyone (this would also include you and me) but himself. Messiah did know the physical Sacred Name. His knowledge and use of the physical Sacred Name is what caused his conviction by the extraordinary night time session of the Sanhedrin, which BTW was illegal according to Yahudim tradition:
          Mark 14:60-64
          60 And the high priest stood up in the midst, and asked Yahushua, saying, Answerest thou nothing? what is it which these witness against thee?
          61 But he held his peace, and answered nothing. Again the high priest asked him, and said unto him, Art thou the Messiah, the Son of the Blessed?
          62 And Yahushua said, I am: (What Yahushua actually pronounced right here was the physical Sacred Name) and ye shall see the Son of man sitting on the right hand of power, and coming in the clouds of heaven.
          63 Then the high priest rent his clothes, and saith, What need we any further witnesses?
          64 Ye have heard the blasphemy: what think ye? And they all condemned him to be guilty of death.(KJV)
          The High Priest was required by Tradition to rend his clothes whenever he heard the Sacred Name blasphemed. So, Messiah knew and used the Sacred Name on several occasions.

          Nonetheless, forgetting the physical Sacred Name is nothing compared to restoring the knowledge of the spiritual Sacred Name to us on this earth. Messiah knew that the physical Sacred Name represented a spiritual process or a way of life that we all must learn to wear as a garment. Messiah is speaking of a process of salvation that comes to us through his intimacy with the Father. Messiah is the Mother of all the Living, and we are the children given to him by the Father. The spiritual Sacred Name is the living of the whole WORD, and in this name we each have a part and our being.

          Someday, Thummim, the light is going to pop on in your mind!

          Sincerely, Spying
          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


          • #35
            It must be YHWH's light!

            ...Spying, I have seen the light. And if (jesus) had taught that the name of YHWH was drawn from the name of Yahudah, how might this have favored the JEWish people? When will you see that (jesus) is not a blessing to the JEWish people, but a curse to them? Do you know the difference between the two? Suppose that christianity did not exist. Do you think that the many oppressions of the JEWish people would have happened? Why have these oppressions happened while the JEWs were surrounded by christians? If (jesus) had taught the name of YHWH, and built upon this rock, then wouldn't christians have been more brotherly in their treatment of the JEWish people? Show me where the letters of {yod, hey, vav, hey} --> "YHWH" are in the text of the NT. I haven't been able to find these letters anywhere within it. How would one write {YHWH} in greek? Do you really think that the NT's authors couldn't have given some reverance to these letters? {-->Y,H,W,H} The authors of the tanakh surely did. The gross darkness persisted after (jesus), and the light of the name of GD, didn't come. What's this about a candle on a under a bushel, or in a candlestick? (Mat. 5: 15)


            Who is among you that feareth YHWH, that obeyeth the voice of his servant, (*that walketh in darkness, and hath no light?*) (*let him trust in the name of YHWH, and stay upon his God.*)

            Behold, all ye that kindle a fire, that compass yourselves about with sparks: walk in the light of your fire, and in the sparks that ye have kindled. This shall ye have of mine hand; ye shall lie down in sorrow. Isa. 50: 10, 11


            The sun shall be no more thy light by day; neither for brightness shall the moon give light unto thee: but (**YHWH shall be unto thee an everlasting light, and thy God thy glory**).

            Thy sun shall no more go down; neither shall thy moon withdraw itself: for (**YHWH shall be thine everlasting light, and the days of thy mourning shall be ended**). --> {Oh, that (jesus) was a servant of GD's name.}

            Thy people also shall be all righteous: they shall inherit the land for ever, the branch of my planting, the work of my hands, that I may be glorified. Isa. 60: 19 - 21


            ...The very first day of creation testifies of GD's name by the redundancy of its light.

            On whom this rock falls?

            Baruch Hashem, ........Michael


            • #36
              Love Is The Greatest Light!

              Hi Thummim,
              Suppose that christianity did not exist. Do you think that the many oppressions of the JEWish people would have happened?
              Absolutely! Were the Philistines Christian? Were the Syrians Christian? Were the Babylonians Christian? Were the Samaritans Christian? Where the Greeks Christian? Were the Romans Christian? Did Christians destroy Solomon's Temple? Did Christians destroy Herod's Temple? What about the destructions of Jerusalem? How about Masada? How about today? Are the Muslims Christian?

              To be sure, Christians have accomplished much persecution of the Jews which grew worse and worse as the first moon waned after the first century. The light of the moon grew smaller (Jewish people keeping the Torah) until there was no light. At one time the Jewish elders even ordained that a Jew could pretend to be a Christian in order to survive. These were the dark ages. On the other hand, Messiah Yahushua's time was full moon time for the Jewish peoples. That is when they were the greatest light to the world. Thummim, you must have Diaspora in order for the light to go forth to the world. You must have suffering and persecution.

              Now, the light of the Jewish people is again shining to the world. The moon is again waxing. The Holocaust gave off much light. This is why you suddenly in this century find Christianity supporting Jews. Do you think that there could be an Israeli nation today without the support of Christianity, without the support of the United States and Great Britain? Part of this support comes from the guilt of the Holocaust. Another large part of this support comes from false Christianities' mistaken notion of Prophecy. This is mostly a Protestant Christian movement seeking to promote and facilitate the return of their false Jesus. Thus, it is primarily for religious reasons that the United States has supported Israel. The American Jewish vote is a consideration to our politicians, but the Protestant Christian vote is the major consideration behind American support.

              Do you understand, Thummim, that suffering and persecution gives off the greatest light? I think that you do. So, when Jews suffer for keeping the Law, they are ruling the night, the darkness! When they make others suffer, as they have the Palestinians, they become part of the darkness, and again are placing themselves in a position where YAHWEH can use them to again give light to the world through punishing them. When they treat the Palestinians badly, the guilt of the world diminishes over the Holocaust. This is bad news for the Jewish peoples. This means that great suffering is now in the future for the Jewish people.

              How can I make you understand? Place yourself is the shoes of the Palestinians! Do they not have a right to all the things that we have as a nation? Should they not as a nation have an army? If you were Arafat, would you not purchase and receive arms from whomever and whenever you could obtain them? Government exists to protect its citizens. If you were the leader of a nation, is there anything that you would not do to protect your people.

              The Palestinians are willing to die for their land and for their faith. The suicide bombers are not terrorists. They are patriots. Just read the story of Samson, and you can recognize the power and potential of oppressed peoples to destroy their enemies through suicide. They have great power. This power can be matched and destroyed only by greater power. If someone hates you, and if someone is willing to die in order to kill you, then your choices are limited should you desire to live. You must either kill such an enemy, or you must make a friend of him. Will the world permit the genocide of the Palestinian people? So, the Jews really have no choice. They will suffer either way, but to suffer because of the practice of love is far better than to suffer for the practice of hate (Sharon and the Israeli Army). Love can overcome hate, and love is the greatest light.

              Sincerely, Spying
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


              • #37
                The light of death?

                Spying writes;

                Do you understand, Thummim, that suffering and persecution gives off the greatest light? I think that you do. So, when Jews suffer for keeping the Law, they are ruling the night, the darkness! When they make others suffer, as they have the Palestinians, they become part of the darkness, and again are placing themselves in a position where YAHWEH can use them to again give light to the world through punishing them.


                ...Let me get this right, we should be thankful that the christians have persecuted our kind, since they have increased our light in this world? But if we were to increase the light of the palestinians, so that they might be deemed more righteous, that would be wrong? And if we should begin targeting their civilians, as opposed to those we deem to aid in the assault of our civilians, we would deserve a thank you from these people then, since the world would now favor them more {--> than us?} Well, I have only one reply that I can give to this post, "let your light shine, and lighten the darkness". Strap-up, I'll see you on the other side of life, being a little more righteous for understanding you.



                • #38

                  Hi Thummim,

                  And what shall we strap on? Tephillin?:
                  Exod 13:9
                  9 And it shall be for a sign unto thee upon thine hand, and for a memorial between thine eyes, that YAHWEH'S law may be in thy mouth: for with a strong hand hath YAHWEH brought thee out of Egypt. (KJV)

                  Deut 6:6-8
                  6 And these words, which I command thee this day, shall be in thine heart:
                  7 And thou shalt teach them diligently unto thy children, and shalt talk of them when thou sittest in thine house, and when thou walkest by the way, and when thou liest down, and when thou risest up.
                  8 And thou shalt bind them for a sign upon thine hand, and they shall be as frontlets between thine eyes. (KJV)
                  Or bombs? Better yet, why don't we both do as Paul exhorts and put on?:
                  Col 3:12-17
                  12 Put on therefore, as the elect of ELOHIM, holy and beloved, bowels of mercies, kindness, humbleness of mind, meekness, longsuffering;
                  13 Forbearing one another, and forgiving one another, if any man have a quarrel against any: even as Messiah forgave you, so also do ye.
                  14 And above all these things put on charity, which is the bond of perfectness.
                  15 And let the peace of ELOHIM rule in your hearts, to the which also ye are called in one body; and be ye thankful.
                  16 Let the word of Messiah dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to ADONAI.
                  17 And whatsoever ye do in word or deed, do all in the name of ADONAI Yahushua, giving thanks to ELOHIM and the FATHER by him. (KJV)
                  If we be Jews, and the scepter is in our hands, then we are kings, and we must rule in all things, and not just in the ability to rule over others and make war. We must rule also in suffering for the good of our enemies. It would be far better in the sight of ELOHIM if one Jew would lay down his automatic weapon and pick up a bag of groceries and walk to the refugee camp just destroyed begging for forgiveness than to continue to assert his authority and dominance all in the Name of YAHWEH. Whether he lives or not, whether he suffers or not, he has proven his kingship.

                  Sincerely, Spying

                  P.S. And no, you don't even begin to have what I wrote right!
                  The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                  • #39
                    What won't heal, doesn't work!

                    Spying writes;

                    It would be far better in the sight of ELOHIM if one Jew would lay down his automatic weapon and pick up a bag of groceries and walk to the refugee camp just destroyed begging for forgiveness than to continue to assert his authority and dominance all in the Name of YAHWEH.

                    ...But then, we are still trying to heal our wounded, and to patch up broken familes which are short on members. There are many JEWs who are trying to do what you ask even now. There always have been. But you should see how they {the Palestinian people} reciprocate. What you cannot seem to understand, is that the Palestinians were already offered their state, and they turned it down. Clinton was stunned to find out that you cannot make peace with a people who will only except your death. The price is to great to pay. I must admit though, that this post makes more sense to me, then the last one. Then again, didn't YHWH say;

                    23 And if any mischief follow, then thou shalt give life for life,

                    24 Eye for eye, tooth for tooth, hand for hand, foot for foot,

                    25 Burning for burning, wound for wound, stripe for stripe. Ex. 21: 23 - 25


                    ...Why do you suppose that YHWH said this?



                    • #40
                      Shame On Sharon!

                      Hi Thummim,

                      I do remember a movie which told the story of an Israeli special forces team which was organized to find and kill the men responsible for the terrorism accomplished against Israel. I remember the effort that was taken to protect the families of those that were to be killed. I was impressed. Innocent blood should not be shed. This is the manner that nations should deal with terrorists and terrorism.

                      Suicide soldiers, no matter whether they be men, women, or children, between nations that are at war present a different problem. They cannot be punished save through the hunting down and the killing of those who helped train, organize, and provide them with support. The problem with what Sharon has just accomplished is that he has made the whole Palestinian people both Christians and Muslims, and he has made the whole Palestinian governmental authority responsible for the suicide bombers. So, the Israeli Army has come killing. If the whole of the Palestinian people are responsible, then they all should die, but we all know that this is not true. So, the Israeli government, at the very least, has used the suicide bombers as an accuse to accomplish the dismantling of the Palestinian Army and further punish an enslaved people. This is not righteous!

                      You know why I hold these opinions? If Arafat is behind the suicide bombers, then why did not the Israeli Army kill him? The Israeli Army has arrested hundreds of Palestinian soldiers. If they are responsible, why were they arrested? Why were they not killed on the spot? An eye for an eye!

                      Shame on Sharon and the Israeli Army. They have used 911 and the suicide bombers against Israel as an excuse and an opportunity to make a desperate people more desperate, and they may very well force a peace, but it will not be peace. There is more innocent blood crying from the ground, that is, unless both sides are willing to admit that in war innocent people are often killed and harmed, but Israel will not admit that the sucide bombers are soldiers at war. Tell me, what is the difference between a sucide bomber delivering a bomb and a rocket or an F-16 delivering a bomb upon a city or camp?

                      Sincerely, Spying
                      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                      • #41
                        Who chose to target civillians?

                        Spying writes;

                        but Israel will not admit that the sucide bombers are soldiers at war


                        ...Soldiers are sent. They are representitive. So, who do they represent? Your {soldiers at war} concept, puts the Palestinian people at war with the Israeli's. In the way that wars are fought, you have sanctioned the killing of all Palestinians. How do {we --> the U.S.A.} fight wars. Do we spare civillians? Suicide bombers are not {soldiers at war}, they are terrorists. If the suicide bombers are {soldiers at war}, then the Israeli's can remove the entire Palestinian people into the desert, as a consequence of war, and let the heat take care of them. Remember this Spying, "who the good guys are", will be decided by the victors of the war. The victors write the text books. If the losers of the conflict, wrote the textbooks, history would read a whole lot different. Separating the suicide bombers from the Palestinian people, should be more in your interest.

                        ...The sword of Gidean was a fascinating movie. It explored the inter-conflicts that are involved with justice. Justice is not righteousness, nor is it always a righteous act. It would be "just" for the JEWish people, to do to the German people, what they themselves did during the holocaust. After all, they did try to distroy the name of GD in the most vile way. But doing so, wouldn't be a righteous act. And Spying, the Israeli army acted to protect its people, as any worthwhile democratic government would be doing, in sending the army in. This wasn't done at the first such bombing. Lesser ways were tried first. But Arofat wouldn't go along. {he has since been implicated in sponsoring the bombings.}



                        • #42
                          The Apache Tribe!

                          Hi Thummim,

                          Good Sabbath Day to you! In my humble opinion, the Palestinian suicide bombers are soldiers at war. You still have not explained the difference to me between an Israeli tank commander firing a shell into a civilian building, or firing a rocket into a civilian building, or a pilot dropping a bomb on any target where women and children may be, and a suicide bomber exploding himself or herself in a shopping mall? What's the difference? Israel and Palestine are at war. What do people at war do to each other? They kill each other. Israel fights how she fights, and Palestine fights how she fights. I am sorry, but noncombatants are killed either way. Who was it that said that war is hell? I do not blame the Palestinians for fighting in any manner that they are able. I actually do not blame the Israelis for fighting in retaliation.

                          The suicide bombers have made the greater impression on me. Years ago the Vietnamese monks who set themselves ablaze made the same impression. You cannot argue with the determination and strength of conviction of the individual or nation who is willing to die for what they are and believe. I may be as wet here as wet can be, but Israel is no longer a victim in the eye of public opinion. She is now an adult, and she had better take notice. Look at what she did. She attacked and killed because of the bombers. She had control over the whole Palestine nation. She had Arafat in her hands. If the Palestine nation and Arafat sent the bombers, and they did, who won this battle? Where is the Israeli strength of conviction? The Palestine nation and Arafat are sill alive to send more bombers so did Sharon do his job? Did the Israeli Army do their job? If not, what did they do? They are like unto a metal press with a tool and die of hate stamping out future bombers and brand new enemies.

                          I am reminded of another movie. A tribe of American Indians sent warriors one by one to kill a certain mountain man who desecrated their holy place. Another mountain man of blessed memory informed the certain mountain man that he was lucky to still have his hair with so many seeking to lift it. The older mountain man also told him that he was lucky that he was fighting against a tribe who would send their warriors one at a time. The Palestinians are like unto that tribe. Do not there exist other tribes who are related to the Palestinians? What would happen if they decided to come all at once?

                          Of course, since YAHWEH is in charge, and the Yahudim are HIS chosen people, that could not happen, could it?

                          Sincerely, Spying
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                          • #43
                            Hello spying, And Thummim: SOMETIMES WE ARE CALLED TO REMOVE THE THORNE WITH VEHEMEN

                            Please let me express my opinion, I don't necessarily agree with totally everything you are saying, but in same manner i agree with both of you, and in others I don't...YHVH is teaching me to love all his image, but also I see where war is commanded, as sin is commanded to be removed from ourselves. And please don't misunderstand me. I dont wish pain or death on either the Pals or Israel's people, just peace.

                            First The Palistinians....

                            I feel for their belief that they should have a land of their own, but thats all I feel for. I wish it were possible to live in peace and aspire to do so. But SUICIDE SOLDIERS? spying, sorry!!!!! How naive can you be...? They are pure killers of themselves and others....They are brainwashed into thinking that ala, a fake god without love and speach...cares for them... as YHVH cares for us....These people are as the demoniac that was cast into the swine....strange correlation there huh?.. But YHVH has mercy upon those He decides to have mercy upon.... I feel the loss of life from both sides and loath the killing that goes on.... But these people believe the only way for peace is YHVH's chosen to be extinguished and erraticated from the earth. What is so heard for you to see that erraFAT (wants to KILL STEAL AND DESTROY ISRAEL?) Isnt he a thug and a killer, and the West has giv'n him the nobel piece-a-prize, (sorry having fun with words there)....This Guy has always been a killer and the other arabs hate him and don't want him in their country... They just hate their 1/2 brother Israel, YHVHs chosen, more....So the arabs best thought has come up with is, it is best way to deal with erraFAT by encourage him to make Israel fight... Now the infedels (the saooooodadies) are willing to fight on err-of-FATs side but they are not stupid enough to die for no good reason, such as human killing bombs, even they think this is repulsive.... All of these people are under a strong delusion, you have heard the term........No I am not advocating death of the Pals or (erra of eating to much fat, thats gone to his head), it is pretty clear and appearant I loath the man, but if he were to decide that he wanted a country and not the end of Israel, he would get some land a ("I expect") ...But that is not his goal, or his ambition, or his desire. Even the rest of the arabs would like the conflict to go away...and acknowledge Israel has a right to stay there. No the bonehead error-of-fat (Fat head, full of himself) has become a thorn in their sides as well.... To only see the plight of the Pals is to be narrow minded as to what is really going on here. Israel has said, they would give them so much! if you believe the american retoric of 94-8 % or the Israelies 82-3%, and even the east Jerusalem side...WOW thats remarkable! ... But error-fathead errored in his ways because he is err-and-gant (errogant.) That is his errors cause his people to be gaunt with out hope in the world, so they kill them selves.

                            Sorry I took license with the English language there... even the spelling.

                            Now Israel
                            I dont like the fact that Israel felt it had to go into the pals home area and do what they did, and the loss of life hapopened. I am appaled to that.

                            However, you come to my neighborhood with a stick of dynamite, and I just might wipe out your whole family and all the generations I can find.

                            We see this example in the OT where YHVH said...Go into the LAND And KILL EVERYBODY AND THING, MAN WOMAN CHILD and Animals, but Israel disobeyed and it is still fighting them. the sin of Israel is that they did not do it, and they (were MAID)( to be-came-maids of the land and not rulers) by makeing peace with the inhabatants and they have this ongoing conflict. And their king was told to strick the arrows on the ground and he did it thrice because of his pride he said it was enough. SOMETIMES WE ARE CALLED TO REMOVE THE THORNE WITH VEHEMENTLY and strick the ground many times to join the discuss that YHVH has for those angainst him. A little leaven may corrupt the whole loaf(land)....

                            It is hard to say YHVH says to kills. That goes against our tradition and what we think Yahvh teaches. But His ways are not always our ways. And it is clearly documented.

                            I wish peace to the Pals and the Israelies. However, if it don't happen, I think we aught to audit american foreign policy practices and get out of the way of YHVH. ie put ourselves in check and keep requesting peace for the region and get out of the way of two spoiled children, and let them work it out.

                            Advocate peace and hold bothsides accountable

                            Peace to you all.....


                            • #44
                              Whose holy covenant?

                              ...Hi, Ben Yahweh.
                              Something needs to be said, as concerns the holy covenant. Danial gives us a way to divide the supporters of his Eloheem, from those who are the {evil ones}. The key here is the (holy covenant). It seems that the {evil ones} cannot stand the holy covenant, to the point that destroying it becomes all important.


                              30 For the ships of Chittim shall come against him: therefore he shall be grieved, and return, and (*have indignation against the holy covenant*): so shall he do; he shall even return, and (*have intelligence with them that forsake the holy covenant*).

                              31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall (1*pollute the sanctuary of strength*), and shall (2*take away the daily sacrifice*), and they shall (3*place the abomination that maketh desolate*). {see "playing the prophecy game" posted on the Lo- ammi forum}


                              So now we know what drives the {evil ones}. Can we be on the side of dividing the land, and not also be on the side of those who hate the holy covenant? Our hand is forced here. Now we could deal with this, in the Babylonian and Assyrian way, and remove the Palestinian people from the land. {relocation} Or we could try the christian approach and convert them all, gun at their heads. The JEWish Arab then replies, "oye, sons o bitches, these Arabs, who want our land, from under his yarmulka". The JEWish people could of course, make war on them in the name of their own Eloheem. To a larger scale, this is the American approach. War with the Arabs, seems to be shaping up as a posibility, all around us. We really do not have a way to favor dividing the land, if we are on (GD's) side. How can GD come out against his own covenant, in which he promises the land to his people, forever unto all generations? It seems that Spying is one of those who has indignation against the holy covenant. {tsk, tsk} Is it to be, relocation, forced conversion or war? How will this conflict over the land be solved?

                              53 And ye shall dispossess the inhabitants of the land, and dwell therein: for I have given you the land to possess it. Nu. 33: 53

                              --> this was YHWH's way, as you've noted.


                              39 Thus shall he do in the most strong holds with a strange god, whom he shall acknowledge and increase with glory: and he shall cause them to rule over many, (*and shall divide the land for gain*?). Nu. 11: 39

                              ...Allah is a strange god, in that he is not an Arab god, who was in existance at the time of Danials writings. The god of forces, might be the god of militias, of holy wars.


                              ...We can see that dividing the land with anyone not of Israel, is not favored by YHWH. One more important question, do you believe that YHWH would allow his people to be slaughtered by the millions, being slaughtered only for being YaHudaH-ee? This was their transgression to the German people, the name of the JEWish soul being also the name of their Eloheem {YHWH}? [JEW --> Judah --> Yahudah {the tribe that bears GD's name}] Perhaps YHWH has been arranging the worlds countrys, and their temperaments, to his vision of justice. I assume that YHWH's wrath is burning hot like an oven. Since christianity is very guilty of assaulting the name of Yahudah by making the JEWish people, {christ killers}, it is unlikely that the cork will be removed from their bottle, to allow them to escape the wrath of YHWH.

                              Chapter 4

                              1 For, behold, (*the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven*); and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and (*the day that cometh shall burn them up*), saith YHWH of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch. {no name to belong to}

                              2 (*But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings*); and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall. {released from the pen}

                              3 And ye shall tread down the wicked; for (*they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet*) in the day that I shall do this, saith YHWH of hosts.

                              4 Remember ye the law of Moses my servant, which I commanded unto him in Horeb for all Israel, with the statutes and judgments.

                              --> {not christianity}

                              5 Behold, I will send you Elijah the prophet before the coming of the great and dreadful day of YHWH: (*-the day of YaHudaH, when YHWH makes known his name?*)

                              6 And he shall turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers, lest I come and smite the earth with a curse. Mal. chapter 4 {he shall heal the family of Israel, of their strifes}




                              • #45
                                Covenant: and its fulfillment

                                I too, am in full support for the covenant that was established BY YHVH, and not Israel. This was a one sided event, and therefore by necessity it must be eternal. For if it were from Israel, then it would cease, as so many have before. I see that Israel is chosen. And if chosen for what purpose?

                                That is the real question before us. Israel seems to have lost sight of her purpose. I said seems here. Although I am not a jew as in the physical and strictist sense, IE not born in Israel, I do adhere to YHVH. As those who were before Isreal that served YHVH. Your text shows a few of them, but I will let you do the research there. Again, I don't aspire to remove Israel from being the apple of our fathers eye. But I encourage it. That covenant that you hold dear to must too be revisited.

                                Sorry, if I misunderstood what you are getting at.

                                I see it as this: The covenant is a way to express or reveal or unveil who YHVH is to the world. Is this being done in the children of Israel at any time? Are they not just another religious sect that sperates (sanctifies) themselves from the rest of the world? And if they sanctify, for what purpose do they do so? We seperate ourselves from the world to proclaim to the world who YHVH is not who we are...Do you agree? And if that, then let us do so. Let us call a holy convocation, and sanctifiy ouselves out of the world and its ways, and lift our voice and stand upon that which is promised, and proclaim to the heavens, we are His holy people. Then and only then will He bless us. We must love our YHVH, we must only have one God, (and he is not a creation, land...ok) and we must love our neighbor as ourselves. Then he will bless us with EVERYTHING under heaven. Our inheritance will be the ALL. But most inportant, He is our inheritance and He must be first and foremost in our minds, hearts, actions.

                                We all must transcend our judism, christianity and so on...and realize that we are called children of the Most High God. That is if he called us that. And our aspirations are to be pleasing to Him, ...[no?] Land is land, blood is blood, and spirit is spirit, but family is family. Yes I want all of Israel even the lands that Solomon had that were greater than that of David. I want Israel to impact the world as they did in those days. emphases is on empact. Not what we may or maynot possess, but what possess' us! is it greed, or pride for if it is, we will never possess the land as He said we would.

                                The problem is we are in these days, and have yet to translate our thoughts from blessings and curses, unto YHVH himself. We must get our faces out of the mud (land) and lift them towards heaven (his throne), and see: "... that the light of our dawning HAS shined upon us "already"..." and that if we are to get the blessings, we must first get the only true and wise God, who is the giver of the blessings. This is a necessity don't you think so?

                                I pray we are found worthy, and believe some are already. He desires our attention more than to allow us to possess a possession ie, that of the land. I leave the land to him, and I wish to be his possession. He will give us it. It can only be done by Him. I want His name as my possession...WOW!!

                                Now as to our brother Yahshua, please don't get catholic christianity, and the other sectarian groups bad spirit and pollute your spirit. For it too will be cleansed by the winnowing fork of YHVH'S spirit. It will divide asunder all that raises its head above the station designed by YAH. All pride will be removed. All corruptness will be removed. For He is in the business of Family, and friendship. Those who curse Israel will soon faer the God of Israel, and weep and cry out for forgiveness. Which He may grant, whose to say, look at ninevah.

                                What is your take? is the land that gives you reason for covenant, or is it a relationship? Is it the blessings that you Identify with or is it the Giver of the blessings.

                                Praise and honor and glory be to Yah, the keeper of the covenant.