Announcement

**Spying** · 02-01-2002, 08:10 AM

Let's Start The Day Off Right!

Hi William,

You might want to examine this thread to see if it impacts your thinking:

http://www.lo-ammi.org/forum/showthr...5&pagenumber=1

and then give us you comments or criticism!

Sincerely, Spying

**William** · 02-01-2002, 05:02 PM

Hi Spying;

I read the thread, however I found it difficult to understand your position! In one posting, you say that you are waiting for the sunrise, for you do not want to celebrate another Friday Night, but later on you seem to say you maintain that evening is the beginning of the day?

Quote, “Here I am sitting at my computer in my home, the last house on the right along Weis Avenue in old town Ellisville, waiting for first light so that I can thank YAH for this fine Sabbath dawning. I didn't have the heart to tell my family last evening that our Friday night meal together would no longer be a Sabbath get together. The Sabbath cannot begin with night so we must wait for morning.”

As for the day of Atonement, this is by no means the same as the weekly Sabbath although the same word is use. We have named the weekly rest, Sabbath. However there are another18 Sabbaths or so, in addition to the weekly one!

In each case, is prescribed to us exactly how we are to observe each different rest day. The Day of Atonement differs in may ways in comparison to the REST on the weekly basis. Firstly because we are not permitted to eat on Atonement day, whereas the weekly rest is for feasting and it happens every seventh day, and the rest of the Atonement is for fasting and as such, an entire day is to go by with out eating, secondly, it is a day of mourning and reflecting on the errors of our ways, thirdly, it only occurs once a year.

Well the Jews’ teaching on this does not prohibit eating for an entire day. In actual fact, it is a half day fast. Most people eat two perhaps three meals a day. Well, with their teaching, one could have a meal which would have to end at sunset on the ninth of the tenth month, and then eat again a minute after sunset the following night. This is not denying yourself a day, this is playing around with YaHVeH’s commands.

The day of Atonement would have you hungry one day and one night! I am sure God knew that man would come up with a plan so that they would not really deny themselves a full day, and that is why he included the evening of the ninth! Notice it doesn’t say that the ninth evening is the beginning of the tenth day! With the sunset ruling, the tenth would start on the ninth at sunset! Therefore it would be redundant to speak about the ninth! Why?? Cause it already is the tenth!

This whole situation is even more ludicrous if one only eats one meal a day. Think about it, and then give your head a shake! Say someone eats everyday at 5:00 p.m.! How would you instruct them?

We need to abstain from one entire cycle of eating! Therefore I teach no midnight snacks either, or for that matter, setting your alarm for 6:00 a.m.

I teach that we stop eating at sunset on the ninth, and do not go to bed with our stomachs full the following night. In other words, we eat again after sunrise on the 11th. In this way we at least go to bed hungry one night out of a year. Is this too much to ask? We should actually be saying, is it even really a fast, just a day for a man to humble himself?

Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to YaHVeH?

What the Jews are guilty of, is just this. They do not even deny themselves for a single day. And they think they will enter? No, they will not. Lies, lies, lies, show me just one man in all the earth that knows justice and has wisdom!

The Day of Atonement’s specific rules play no part on ordering that a day starts at night! As for you having a Sabbath evening meal on Friday night, fine go ahead and do it, you have not sinned, for it truly is Sabbath Eve! Just like Dec.31 is New Year’s Eve according to the modern Calender! However, it is New Year’s Day that is a day of rest for the commoners!

Spying, would you be willing to excommunicate someone for shopping Friday night, if that is your Sabbath? How about if they worked past sunset Friday night? You want to be a leader? You have better know how to make sure judgements! As for me, if anyone did any shopping or working on the Sabbath, they would not be in the fellowship the following week! I keep my Father’s Sabbath which starts at the break of day and is finished on Sunday at the break of day, and I will not fellowship with anyone who violates it!

Enoch says it beautifully, the sun marches triumphantly across the sky announcing the new day! The New Moon’s first sliver signals the New Month having begun! It does not have it’s beginnings as it becomes dark, that is modern day teachings! They say that the black out is the new moon, they too lie!

The birth of a believer is when he comes into the light! This too can be taken as an example, for they are not fully in the light at that point, however there is a glimmer of hope within that soul! Full brilliance comes when they no longer sin!

**Thummim** · 02-03-2002, 09:47 AM

The beginning of the twenty-four hour cycle.

...I thought that I would try to make an argument for an evening start to the day. Here goes,

In the beginning, It was dark. In this darkness, the earth and the heavens were created. Darkness is upon the deep. This is the beginning point for counting the days until YHWH will rest on the sabboth. The count begins in darkness. Not during the night, which doesn’t, as yet exist, but at a point that is neither day, nor night. (-->Evening). If we begin our day from this point, we begin each day at evening time, since no other time more closely corresponds to what is written, in our twenty-four hour daily cycle.

And ye shall keep it up until the fourteenth day of the same month: and the whole assembly of the congregation of Israel shall kill it in the evening. Ex: 12: 6

And it came to pass (*the selfsame day*) that the LORD did bring the children of Israel out of the land of Egypt by their armies. Ex. 12: 51

…What day is the self-same day? This is the day that Moses leads the children of Israel, out of the land of Egypt. If the self-same day is the day that the passover is eaten, than day must begin at evening time. What day is being referenced here? That self-same day that the passover is eaten can only be included in the count of days for the eating of unleavened bread, if the day began at sunset. The people are said to leave Egypt on that self-same day that the passover was eaten. Is the passover eaten on the day that the children of Israel are led out of Egypt? If so, eating of the passover, which occurs in the evening, must be a part of the same day that the exodus occurs. That is {evening and morning} are a day. The eating of the passover and the departure from Egypt, occur in the same day.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

And the men of Israel were distressed that day: for Saul had adjured the people, saying, Cursed be the man that eateth any food until evening, that I may be avenged on mine enemies. So none of the people tasted any food. I Sam. 14: 24

…Why does Saul signal a curse to any man that eats any food before evening? Is he signaling a new day when evening comes, making it acceptable to eat again?

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

19 And the clean person shall sprinkle upon the unclean on the third day, and on the seventh day: and on the seventh day he shall purify himself, and wash his clothes, and bathe himself in water, and shall be clean (*at even.*)

20 But the man that shall be unclean, and shall not purify himself, that soul shall be cut off from among the congregation, because he hath defiled the sanctuary of the LORD: the water of separation hath not been sprinkled upon him; he is unclean.

21 And it shall be a perpetual statute unto them, that he that sprinkleth the water of separation shall wash his clothes; and he that toucheth the water of separation shall be unclean (*until even.*)

22 And whatsoever the unclean person toucheth shall be unclean; and the soul that toucheth it shall be unclean (*until even.*) Nu. 19: 19-22

…Doesn’t the (even) here, signal a new day, the old day having passed, along with the uncleanness? With the passing of day {the proper conditions having been met}, the uncleanness is separated from the new day. I doubt the defiling of a new day, would be risked by the priests. Thus cleanness would come when the next day began.

XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

7 But it shall be one day which shall be known to the LORD, not day, nor night: but it shall come to pass, that at evening time it shall be light.

8 And it shall be in that day, that living waters shall go out from Jerusalem; half of them toward the former sea, and half of them toward the hinder sea: in summer and in winter shall it be.

9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one. Zech. 14: 7

…Doesn’t the day, when YHWH will be king over all the earth, begin at evening time? I believe that the author is contemplating the light from the first day of creation (Gen. 1: 1-5, already mentioned), when the sun, moon and stars have to give up their place to YHWH’s own light, the light of the first day when it is neither light, nor dark. {Zech. 12: 7} (*Joel 3: 15, Isa. 60: 19, 20--> takes on the change in the heavens*) In the creation account, the evening and the morning are the points of separation, between the days. This seems logical to me, since the count of the days until the sabboth of YHWH [his seventh day of creation], begin in the darkness before the day is created. The day, as the beginning of light,{morning} is different from the beginning of the twenty-four hour count of hours, until a new cycle begins. That we are talking about two different things, confuses many people.

...Perhaps, with a little more study, I could have found some other arguments for an evening start to the day.

….Michael

**Thummim** · 02-03-2002, 10:04 AM

Too fat a post!

...Sorry Spying, this (fat post syndrome) has happened to me, before. I really don't know how to change it. The last time that I had this problem, I just deleted it and as much of the string as I could. This happens when I do work on my (WORD) word processor and transfer my work to this forum. Perhaps the six inch setting is too wide. Fortunately, my post hasn't completely bulked out this time. I'm also in a much better mood than I was the last time that this occured.

....Michael

**Spying** · 02-08-2002, 08:10 AM

Finished?

Hi William,

You have said that work here at this forum is finished, and that you have passed the test. Personally, I feel that you have much sin to come to rest from. This sin is hidden from you and has not been brought to the light. Is that why you have resisted the bibical and Jewish teaching that the 24 hour day begins at sunset?

You started this thread. I for one would like to see you finish it. Do you have any reply to Thummim's points? If not, then perhaps, I need to award Thummim his spurs.

Sincerely, Spying

**DeAnna** · 02-09-2002, 09:59 PM

Shalom William,

Why do you not consider the rest of the chapter?

>> Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to YaHVeH? <<

When He goes on to say;

YE SHALL NOT FAST AS YE DO THIS DAY...
and >

THIS > is the FAST that >> I << have chosen...

to feed the hungry, clothe the naken, stretch out thy soul to the afflicted, unloose the heavy burdens, take away the pointing of the finger from the midst of you etc...

I paraphrased ... but I know this chapter almost by heart...

Anyway... I am amazed that people really do not "see" what Yah is SAYING is the FAST that HE has CHOSEN... and continue to insist that people go with out food, and they have fulfilled
"the fast". They may go without food, but it is not the fast that Yah has chosen. For he says ye will NOT fast as ye do this day...
and then goes on to show "what" the fast that HE HAS CHOSEN
is.

Well... thats how I read it anyway. Don't mean to be argumentitive... just sharig my "take" or "understanding" of it.

Yah bless,
d'

**Thummim** · 02-10-2002, 08:50 AM

Ending the fast without showing any improvement in righteousness.

>> Isaiah 58:5 Is it such a fast that I have chosen? a day for a man to afflict his soul? to bow down his head as a bulrush, and to spread sackcloth and ashes? wilt thou call this a fast, and an acceptable day to YaHVeH? <<

...DeAnna, Do we agree here? To me, YHWH is saying, " you fast the day, but at the end of the day you are no more righteous than you were at the beginning of your fast."

--> 6 Is not this the fast that I have chosen? to loose the bands of wickedness, to undo the heavy burdens, and to let the oppressed go free, and that ye break every yoke?

7 Is it not to deal thy bread to the hungry, and that thou bring the poor that are cast out to thy house? when thou seest the naked, that thou cover him; and that thou hide not thyself from thine own flesh?

...YHWH does seem to confirm in these verses, that the fast concludes in the evening, though in this case, without the fasters showing themselves any more righteous.

....Michael

Announcement

Start of a day

Start of a day

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment

Comment