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Yahshua, Yah or not Yah?

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  • Yahshua, Yah or not Yah?

    shalom all!
    Yah be with you in Yahshua name!
    Hi DeAnna, Spying, Revivrus and all

    This was taken from an islamic thought. It is a refute o th ebelief that Yahushua Is Yah the Father. I'm hoping that you can help me build to a point that I can easily rebuke such teachings.

    The Study:
    Arius: said to be a senior presbyter, among many who believed that the Father alone was really G-D. The son did not possess , by nature or right, any of the divine qualities of immortality, sovereignty and purity.He did not exist before he was begotten of the Father.With the Aid of reason Arius' claims from scripture:
    he used John 14:28 and John 13:16

    "and Jesus...for fourty days in the wilderness was tempted by the devil" Luke 4:1
    G-D cannot be tempted by the devil"(with evil) James 1:13

    (as used by the muslim)

    there is Much Much MUCH more, but if any of you(and I know you guys do) can help, please do so.
    Shalom all
    in Messiah

  • #2
    remember, this is only a rebuild on the basics.
    to stand firmer on them


    • #3
      True ELOHIM and True Man?

      Hi AntotiYAH,

      Peace to you, my young friend! I love this topic. Messiah Yahushua is YAHWEH ELOHIM. YAHWEH ELOHIM is the Father. If Messiah is really the Son, then who in all the world is the Father? Clearly, the Son cannot be the Father, or can HE?

      Traditional Christianity teaches that Messiah has a dual nature. They teach that Messiah is both true EL and true man. Thus, they make Messiah a schizoid. Accordingly, sometimes Messiah acts according to his divine nature, and sometimes Messiah acts according to his human nature. EL cannot die so if ELOHIM must die in our place to pay the penalty of our sin in our stead, then it was necessary for ELOHIM to come to earth and be born a man.

      I have the same problem with the above teaching that the Muslims have noticed concerning the tempting of ELOHIM. Even if ELOHIM became a man in order to die, clearly it is only a human who can die. What valve is the death of any man over another? Now, if ELOHIM actually died when Messiah died, then we would have a totally different story here, but as it is, ELOHIM cannot be tempted and neither does ELOHIM die when a man dies. We cannot kill ELOHIM by killing a man unless, of course, man is really ELOHIM. So, Islam has good reason to question traditional Christianity here.

      Have a good Sabbath Day, AntotiYAH.

      Sincerely, Spying
      The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


      • #4
        A {god}man?

        ...Antotiyah, YHWH is not a man, but a refuge for men. If you are willing to believe that (GD) can be a man, then you have set yourself up to be decieved. As you can believe this once, you can believe it again. The relationship between man and (GD) is defined in the following Psalm, by the author's David.


        Psalm 62

        1 To the chief Musician, to Jeduthun, A Psalm of David.

        Truly my soul waiteth upon (God): from {him} cometh my salvation.

        2 {He} only is my rock and my salvation; {he} is my defence; I shall not be greatly moved.

        3 How long will ye imagine mischief against a -->man<--? ye shall be slain all of you: as a bowing wall shall ye be, and as a tottering fence.

        4 They only consult to cast him -->[ie. David from his throne] down from his excellency: they delight in lies: they bless with their mouth, but they curse inwardly. Selah.

        5 My soul, wait thou only upon (God); for my expectation is from him.

        6 {He} only is my rock and my salvation: {he} is my defence; I shall not be moved.

        7 In (God) is my salvation and my glory: the rock of my strength, and my refuge, is in (God).

        8 Trust in him at all times; ye people, pour out your heart before {him}: (God) is a refuge for us. Selah.

        9 Surely -->men<-- of low degree are vanity, and -->men<-- of high degree are a lie: to be laid in the balance, (((*they are altogether lighter than vanity*))).

        10 Trust not in oppression, and become not vain in robbery: if riches increase, set not your heart upon them.

        11 (God) hath spoken once; twice have I heard this; that power belongeth unto (God).

        12 Also unto {thee}, O (Lord), belongeth mercy: for thou renderest to every -->man<-- according to his work.


        ...,Why should (GD) become a man? Why demote him? Nowhere in the tanakh does it say that YHWH will become a man. Must your (GD) become a man, for your faith to work? Do you think that David believed that his (GD), would become a man?

        Hos.11:9, I will not execute the fierceness of mine anger, I will not return to destroy Ephraim: (*for I am God, and not man*); the Holy One in the midst of thee: and I will not enter into the city.



        • #5

          I believe:

          ELOHIM killed a LAMB, instead of the first man and woman, who had sinned. The sin was: they decided to do "something" without ELOHIM. (Made a decision on their own without their GOD, ELOHIM)

          ELOHIM then covered them with the skin of the lamb, HE SACRFICED; covering them, and their sinfulness, with innocent skin. In HIS LOVE, ELOHIM killed an innocent creature of HIS CREATION to SAVE the "beginnings" of HIS BRIDE/HIS BODY.
          But, death was introduced into HIS CREATION.

          ELOHIM, HIMSELF, came as MESSIAH YESHUA to take the place of the lamb and to delete death from HIS CREATION.
          HE was tempted as a MAN, but never sinned. Temptation is not a sin. To give in to temptation is sin.

          James 1:12 Blessed is the man who perseveres under trial, because when he has stood the test, he will receive the crown of life that ELOHIM has promised to those who LOVE HIM.

          LOVE is not a feeling.
          To be tempted and not sin is to LOVE ELOHIM.

          James 1:13 When tempted, no one should say, "ELOHIM is tempting me." For ELOHIM cannot be tempted by evil, nor does HE tempt anyone; 14 but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. 15 Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death.

          ELOHIM cannot be tempted into/by evil.
          ELOHIM allows temptation, not to test US,
          but for US to know the "strengths" in ourselves that WE need to put down
          in order to submit to HIM.

          HE, as MESSIAH, was tempted to be GOD
          and not the MAN/GOD that would SAVE HIS CREATION;
          by SACRIFICE.
          The only acceptable SACRIFICE would be an INNOCENT HUMAN.

          I believe that HE, really, had to have FAITH in believing HE was who, the people closest to HIM, said HE was
          and who the Book of the COVENANT said HE was.
          How many times have WE been told that WE are "SONs of GOD" and still act like unbelieving humans.

          HE believed that HE, as a human, was a SON of GOD (human with HOLY SPIRIT). HE is the only begotten SON.
          Everything HE did, on earth, were things that a human, indwelled by ELOHIM's SPIRIT, can do. Other prophets were known to have done the things HE did, except for being INNOCENT (without sin) and, HIMSELF, rising from the dead.

          The HOLY LAMB died on PASSOVER.
          HE rose on FIRST FRUITS.
          HIS SPIRIT came to earth on PENTACOST.
          And, I believe, HIS BODY (HIS STRENGTH here on earth=to stand before the LORD-HIS HORN) will be raised from the dead on the FEAST of the HORN. (Revelation 11)
          Then ATONEMENT.
          Then TABERNACLE.

          HIS PLAN will be completed.
          HIS presence here on earth fulfilled/completed the Book of the LAW.
          HE wrote the first Book of the COVENANT
          and lived and died on the second Book of the COVENANT.
          As HE said, "It is done!"

          WE are ONE!!!
          The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

          I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
          I CREATED YOU for ME.
          That is why I SAVED YOU.
          For ME.

          YOUR HUSBAND,


          • #6
            Innocent Blood?

            ...israelthebride, so you believe that YHWH must be an eloheem, that cannot remit sin without the sheding of innocent blood. Such an eloheem would be as guilty of spilling {innocent} blood, as those whom he holds guilty of this same act. This eloheem, also could not distinguish the difference between righteousness and unrighteousness in the sheding of this blood, since he would be guilty of judging a deed, of which he himself had condoned in his plan of salvation. Do you want to be judged by a person that has commited your sin? The deed is the same color, no matter who uses the brush. Your god is not that different from other gods who demand that an innocent person (a virgin?) be sacrificed to turn away their god's wrath. Perhaps a volcano would do a better job. It would be grander than a wooden cross. Can you reason the comparison that I am trying to make?

            10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which the LORD thy God giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee. Deut. 19: 10

            16 These six things doth the LORD hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto him:

            17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and (***hands that shed innocent blood***),

            18 An heart that deviseth wicked imaginations, feet that be swift in running to mischief,

            19 A false witness that speaketh lies, and he that soweth discord among brethren. Proverbs 6: 16-19

            14 Wherefore they cried unto the LORD, and said, We beseech thee, O LORD, we beseech thee, let us not perish for this man's life, and lay not upon us innocent blood: for thou, O LORD, hast done as it pleased thee.

            15 So they took up Jonah, and cast him forth into the sea: and the sea ceased from her raging.

            16 Then the men feared the LORD exceedingly, and offered a sacrifice unto the LORD, and made vows. Jonah 1: 14-16

            ...How much effort, do these men put into keeping innocent blood off of them? They know that innocent blood does not vindicate its bearers, but makes them guilty. The GD that these men fear, will not require them to cover themselves with innocent blood to turn away his wrath.


            ....Has YHWH changed his mind about sheding innocent blood in his land?

            ....Baruch hashem, Michael


            • #7

              Let me put it this way;

              If I were creator and the body, I am creating, decides to go on it's own, I could destroy it or save it.

              Now, which would you choose:
              to destroy your whole body because some of it goes bad or
              find ways to heal it.

              Let's be practical here.
              ELOHIM is creating HIS BODY.
              Parts that are not following the LAW of HIS BODY will be cut off.
              You would do the same with any disease. (cells that do not follow the law of your body)

              HE has written down how and why HIS BODY lives.
              The Books of the COVENANT. (Genesis to Revelation)
              Through all the writings HE says "if you want to survive" you must do ...

              ELOHIM is CREATOR.
              Whatever HE says is LAW.
              The only reason that WE survive or will survive is because of HIS judgement for the survival of HIS BODY.

              MT 18:7 "Woe to the world because of the things that cause people to sin! Such things must come, but woe to the man through whom they come! 8 If your hand or your foot causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire. 9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

              Why do you hate cancer so much?
              Because you know it?
              Because it will harm the cells that are wanting to stay alive in your body.

              Our GOD "LOVEs" and "not LOVEs".
              "Not LOVEs" was translated into "hate/wrath".

              Why does any disease make you angry?
              Because of the way it acts or it's personality?
              Because it is trying to kill the body you live in.

              As much as you will do for your body;
              ELOHIM, as CREATOR, can do so much more for HIS!!!

              It is called survival!!!

              WE are ONE!!!
              The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

              I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
              I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
              I CREATED YOU for ME.
              That is why I SAVED YOU.
              For ME.

              YOUR HUSBAND,


              • #8

                shalom spying,
                hehe...May yah bless you- everything you said is true. However, you lack the "punch" that you usually have. hmmmmm, I hope this was only an intro to what you were going to share with me and the rest of us. But still, it was awesome!
                again what you said is true.
                I'll re-state your words in mine
                Yah is not asimple EL.Nor will He ever be, He is the ODDEST of all things yet plain.An "oxymoronic" Yah, and there is only one that is like that.
                But please continue, PLEASE!


                hmmmmmm....for you , I'll call this "Yahshua, Messiah or not Messiah"
                (this can get hot)

                but let me ask you this...
                Are you a Jew, one of those that greatly attend themselves, or that embraces "Talmud"?
                That is all i will say to you for the moment until you answer this question

                agreed to all of your posts. AWESOME- The last post shows the "History" of Yah with evil. But Im not 100% sure on where your taking it?
                How does it deal with MEssiah being YAh the Father at the same?

                to your first post, very awesome! hmmmmmm
                However, it didnt really "hit".
                Now, we dont only deal with an "Islamic and Quranic" point on Yahshua, But also a "Jewish view" by Thummim.
                So all are against RaboniYahshua.

                We must bring the things that would go against the mentality of the Quran and Islam- and also the weapon to "shank" the view of our friend, Thummim(no offence)
                I see that either Thummim doesnt believe that Messiah is YAH and His Son, Or Thummim just see's Messiah as the Son.
                Then if he see's Messiah as SON ONLY, the questions would be, does he see that Messiah gets EQUAL praise and worship(proskinos) as the Father. OR even does Messiah recieve worship(proskinos) at all.

                But all in all, each of your posts were awesome.
                Yah bless you each
                Antonio-AntotiYah Daniel Limas


                • #9
                  INNOCENT BLOOD?!


                  We , or really i should say I, I dont know what Israel believes.
                  However, Messiah death(sacrifice) is to show what Sin does. It spills blood, it kills, it kills a perfect part of oneself aswell.
                  Sin destroys everything in its path- even perfection.
                  (a perfect, and spotless lamb/or animal without blmishes of any. nor crippled)
                  It isnt "the Spilling of Blood"
                  however because that Blood spilled, according to your heart, then you will be healed or not. Judged/condemned or awarded because of your faith. ahh, it goes on- I dont have "full" understanding of this yet. but who does?
                  Oh well test us Thummim, continue
                  A-A D Limas


                  • #10
                    The Original Sin?

                    Hi Israelthebride,

                    I disagree with this statement:
                    The sin was: they decided to do "something" without ELOHIM.
                    I am remembering back to when Mr. Herbert Armstrong was alive and was preaching that he would invariable castigate this world's Christianity for not getting the beginning right in almost every sermon. Then he would always go on to reiterate his take on the beginning. I always got a kick out of this practice. I admired Mr. Armstrong's boldness, but I knew that he did not have the beginning right either.

                    Scripture plainly says that sin is the transgression of the Law. YAHWEH ELOHIM no where told Adam and Eve that they must do everything with HIM. YAHWEH ELOHIM plainly told Adam and Eve not to eat of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. They simply transgressed this commandment of YAHWEH. They disobedied HIM and ate of the tree. That was their sin.

                    Sincerely, Spying
                    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!


                    • #11
                      Some thoughts of mine.

                      ...Antotiyah, my argument is that {jesus or Yeshua} as some refer to him, is not messiah. The messiah has not come. I am a JEW by faith and cannot abide leaving out the (chosen) people from the formula that is salvation. I read over and over, that JEWs are included in any plan of YHWH's, that is addressed in the tanakh. Yet there is little given to gentiles within these pages. The more that the faith is removed from the people, who bear the name of YHWH, the more strange the faith becomes. Where does YHWH say in the tanakh, that he is out to save the world's people? The N.I.V. text of Isa. 26: 18 states;

                      "We were with child, we writhed in pain, but we gave birth to wind. We have not brought salvation to the earth; We have not given birth to the people of the world".

                      ...There isn't anything written, for the disclusion of the JEWish people in any plan of YHWH's. Isa. 49:4 states;

                      "Then I said, I have laboured in vain, I have spent my strength for nought, and in vain: yet surely my judgment is with the LORD, and my work with my God". You see, there are a few things that could be taken as the rejection of gentiles.

                      ...I'm not arguing that gentiles have no part in the plans of YHWH. After all, he is (GD) of all the world. But how is it that gentiles use a "JEWish" book, written by JEWs, for JEWs, and give them the least desirable role (the rejectors and killers of the messiah) in their faith? Because people believe this, the JEWish people have to pay with their lives, and the lives of their children. So this faith turns out to be a whole lot less than JEWish salvation. Now christians believe that there is no salvation without the shedding of blood.

                      Heb. 9: 22 "And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission".

                      ...But it is better to quote from Mi. 6: 6-8 here.


                      6 Wherewith shall I come before the LORD, and bow myself before the high God? shall I come before him with burnt offerings, with calves of a year old?

                      7 Will the LORD be pleased with thousands of rams, orwith ten thousands of rivers of oil? shall I give my firstborn for my transgression, the fruit of my body for the sin of my soul?

                      8 He hath shewed thee, O man, what is good; and what doth the LORD require of thee, but to do justly, and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with thy God?


                      ...YHWH does not like the shedding of innocent blood upon his land. I referenced this in my previous post. These animals are not innocent. They are food, they are clothes and they are milk to feed babies with. They are not brought to the priest as innocent creatures. They are brought to him as value (without blemish). These animals are money to these people. The size of your flock tells how wealthy you are. But christians have YHWH desiring to spill innocent blood. They think like Romans.

                      --->Somewhere in Judea, a man kills a Roman officer. The Roman authority demands that the guilty man is brought to the authorities. To make sure that this is accomplished, they slay 10 innocent (JEWish) men a day, until the guilty party is brought forth. The towns folk know that this will not be finished until the Romans are satisfied that they have been provided justice. The people of the town also know that the guilty party will not turn himself over. So dice are cast or straws are drawn, to select an innocent person to die for the rest of the towns folk. The Romans crucify him and are satisfied. An innocent man turns back the wrath of the Roman authority with his life. This is not the way of YHWH. He who eats the sour grape finds his own teeth set on edge. (bears the burdon of justice for his own sin). Jer. 31: 29, 30

                      ...I do not except christianities messiah, who has shown himself to be a curse to the JEWish people. It is better for this people, that this man had never been born. The messiah will not defile the name of Yahudah. He will make it desirable so that the JEWish people will be sought out, rather than vilified. Their name will be redeemed.

                      ...I hope you can draw some conclusions about my own faith from this post.

                      ....Baruch hashem, (-->YHWH), the name that goes into the name of Yahudah, if you remove the fourth letter of the name. {an argument for inclusion as good guys!}



                      • #12
                        Peace to you Thummim

                        Shalom Thummim.

                        If you are one that embraces Talmud. Despite all the things it has in Gemara about Yahshua(false things really)
                        I will give you one thing.
                        (to me this ends anything about us Jews saying that Messiah has not arrived.
                        The sceptor shall not depart from Yahudah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until shiloh(messiah) comes

                        When Rome TOOK over Palestine, Us Yahudiim, saw the sceptor starting to depart. Later in 11 AD The Romans SEVERELY restricted the legislative and Judicial authority of the Jewish council, The sanhedrin. The Jewish leaders at the time recorded their thoughts in the Talmud, which we, Us Yahudiim , Thummim, and the Gentiles, can still read today.
                        It states in Chapter 4 volume 37:
                        "Woe unto Us, For the sceptor has been taken from Yahudah, and the Messiah has not appeared"

                        Us Yahudiim were looking for Messiah around this time in history when Yahshua was walking the hills of Palestine as (around) a 15 yr old boy.He was right in front of them but they didnt know it.
                        He is was right in front of me but i didnt know it at a point- and He is right in front of you Thummim, and you dont know it.

                        Peace to all



                        • #13
                          Crushed by our blessing?

                          ...Antotiyah, so you're happy with the part that you and the JEWish people are given in christianity. (killers of the messiah and of the son of GD) If {jesus} is messiah, why bother? Wouldn't the JEWish people be better off without a messiah? Let our enemies rejoice. The king of the world and his court, is cruel to the JEWish people. Lets hope that next time there will be a difference between a blessing and a curse. I do not base any of my conclusions upon the talmud. It's just a commentary to me. I think that {jesus} is a test, to see if we will be faithful to the ways of YHWH. If we follow the deciever of this world, we fail. Haven't you noticed how many of the oppressors are christians?



                          • #14
                            "ELOHIM killed a LAMB, instead of the first man and woman, who had sinned. The sin was: they decided to do "something" without ELOHIM. (Made a decision on their own without their GOD, ELOHIM)"

                            "...israelthebride, so you believe that YHWH must be an eloheem, that cannot remit sin without the sheding of innocent blood. Such an eloheem would be as guilty of spilling {innocent} blood, as those whom he holds guilty of this same act"

                            Shalom Everyone,

                            May Yah be with us. (smile)

                            There is a real 'old' saying:
                            "Truth is STRANGER then fiction".

                            I beleive in "old" or the "ancient sayings". Yah says "my word will not return unto me void".
                            I often think these "ancient sayings" that have been passed down from generation to generation, and seem to be as ageless as the bible, are "truths".

                            such as: "The truth will set you free"
                            is far "deeper" then most realize.
                            "What goes around comes around"
                            "you get what you give"
                            etc... I believe are all "ageless" because they are all "Truths".

                            And I have honestly found the "truth" really IS "stranger then fiction". In fact... man kind in general believe "fiction" to be the norm. Such as the "beaver clever family" and such.
                            As we all know... no family is "hunky dory"... life is not "hunky dory"...nor can the flesh EVER be "hunk dory".
                            Yet we have been taught to "seek" > Hunky dory < in the flesh.

                            I do not beleive Yahs salvation annointed, manifested in the flesh... is ABOUT > HIS < flesh. But about His Salvation being "manifested" in > our < flesh. HIM in US.

                            I do not believe "No one can come unto the father accept by me"... is about > believing messiah was/is a fleshly man or about his fleshly life... or about a "separate BEING" at all.

                            I believe that no one can come unto the father ACCEPT by YAHS SALVATION annointed, or "quickened" in them.

                            Messiah claimed to be the "son of man", because Yahs "spirit WITHOUT Measure" being manifested in a physical body, was PROPHETIC of Him being "born in us".

                            It is not about a separate being that "leads us to the father".
                            But about a "separate" UNDERSTANDING that leads us to the father. There IS NO "other" savior, then the father.

                            Once one "understands" that ONLY Yah... may "grant" salvation. or "deliverance" or whatever one wants to call moving on to a "higher" and better existance. Then one has no "alternative" but to "turn to" and "seek" and "ask' Yah to "grant" them "Yahshua the messiah" OR another way of saying the SAME thing is; To be "annointed" with Yahs salvation. or "quickened, by YAHS Salvation".

                            Not mans salvation, not another entity, power, force, will, authority, NO OTHER!
                            One has "received" > YAH SHUA. or Yahs salvation.

                            Because someone beleives that the "son of god" has walked in the flesh, and died on a cross... does NOT give them slavation.
                            But when one beleives that only Yah may grant them a thing, or not grant them a thing, and there is simply no other power or force invloved... then they have 'received' > "Yahshua". or Yahs salvation.

                            So you see... one cannot "come unto the father" but through him... For even a bride cannot approach the King lest she be called, and if she did, she was subject to death! UNLESS she found "mercy" in the Kings eyes.

                            So ONLY Yah may "grant" a thing. He is "God of gods" people. He is "The ONE WHO IS". The creator and "maker" of all that exists. His ways are higher then our ways.

                            "Blood" / "sacrifice".... shedding of guilt by slaying the innocent. <<

                            Yah is SPIRIT... And He created unto himself a worthy adversary; flesh.
                            And in this flesh, he put "blood" or the souls of mankind.
                            And the "blood" bares the "sins" (guilt) of the flesh, or of the "worthy adversary" or the "beast". And so the "innocent" (blood/souls) are slain.

                            Now David, Isaiah, and especially Job, show us that Yah is in control of litterally all things. We know Yah has vowed to "save" Israel. and "judah". Now I believe "Israel" to mean; "Yah prevails". and "Judah" to mean; "He who praises Yah".
                            or "He who confesses Yah".. etc.

                            I believe all who truly believe deep down that Yah Prevails >
                            are infact... spiritual Israel.
                            And all who "praise Yah, and confess Yah (or god/jesus etc)
                            are Judah, but not necessarily made "one" yet with Israel; (Yah prevails!)

                            But Yah says he will bring the two togeather... and they certainly do "come togeather".

                            Now this is where "Truth" gets real strange.

                            Job 9:32 For he (Yah) is not a man, as I am, that I should answer him, and we should come together in judgment.
                            33 Neither is there any daysman betwixt us, that might lay his hand upon us both.
                            34 Let him take his rod away from me, and let not his fear terrify me 35 Then would I speak, and not fear him; but it is not so with me.

                            Job 10:2 I will say unto God, Do not condemn me; shew me wherefore thou contendest with me.3 Is it good unto thee that thou shouldest oppress, that thou shouldest despise the work of thine hands, and shine upon the counsel of
                            the wicked?

                            See... Job refused to believe that the maker of all the universe, inluding himself, was putting him through all of this because of something "he" himself did! Like a punishment, like the others tried to convince him of. Job is saying... hey, if all of this is because of my sin or what have you then, he would 'show" me my offense to my face, and not just beat me up... for this, job would not call righteous. they accuse job of saying Yah is not righteous, but Job wasn't saying that... he was saying your idea of him is not righteous. Your "councel" is not righteous.

                            Job says to Yah; (I beleive as an example to the others more then anything) >
                            4 Hast thou eyes of flesh? or seest thou as man seeth?
                            5 Are thy days as the days of man? are thy years as man's days,
                            6 That thou enquirest after mine iniquity, and searchest after my sin?
                            7 Thou knowest that I am not wicked; and there is none that can deliver out of thine hand.
                            8 Thine hands have made me and fashioned me together round about; yet thou dost destroy me.
                            9 Remember, I beseech thee, that thou hast made me as the clay; and wilt thou bring me into dust again?
                            10 Hast thou not poured me out as milk, and curdled me like cheese?
                            11 Thou hast clothed me with skin and flesh, and hast fenced me with bones and sinews.
                            12 Thou hast granted me life and favour, and thy visitation hath preserved my spirit."

                            Here is the thing... If Yah "came down in the flesh and "died" on the cross"..and this happened physically.... it was only to SHOW that HIS spirit, will "come into us" or "marry" us... and HE being the authority of all that exists, will reveal to us HIMSELF, in that HE was is always will be, THE authority, or THE One who exists, and thereby "Justifiying" us, and taking or shedding the blood, or "guilt" from the innocent, put back on HIM, the authority of all... and THEN we find > IN HIM... THERE IS NO SIN. (guilt/death etc.)

                            "Yahshua" and the manifestation of the New testement.... was a "fulfillment" and "prophecy" all at the same time. In this respect, it is "eternal" in a way.
                            In that it is not only "past, present, future" but all three simutaneously.

                            When Yah (The Spirit) comes in unto our "soul" (blood) as He promises, and demonstrates through the physical manifestation of Yahshua whom the world calls jesus... Then it is by HIS SPIRIT, that our "soul" conforms. Thus;
                            Yah "forms" the "spirit" in a "man" (blood).
                            "Adam" may also mean "blood".
                            Adam also means "man".

                            The "flesh" or the "adversary" or the "beast"...
                            shall be "done a way with".
                            And so it is true, with each "death". But Yah will prevail. The worthy adversary that Yah created unto Himself, will NOT prevail. The "flesh" will not prevail. But the "Spirit" will !

                            "Not by might, nor by Power, but by MY SPIRIT, sayeth Yah".

                            THIS is the word that is sown in "confusion" or in "babylon".
                            THIS is the Word we must all keep in mind, whenever we get confused of a thing. It is only by Yahs spirit/force/will that a thing will come about.

                            Now... the "adversary" or the "flesh" > TEMPS < Yahshua (Yahs word made flesh or Yah salvation annointed) by saying "cast yourself down, for it is written, Yah will not let a stone gash your foot... or something like that... it's para phrased, but anyway... when I first came to realize that Yah truly was in control of all things, I kind of went nuts on some things. Now I realize that I was "testing Yah". with the attitude... well, all things are of you....

                            But Yahs salvation, or His word made flesh, in us, reveals to us... don't do that... don't test your maker. always try to stay focused on HIM. Not on all you get to "do". or on the flesh. why? because he is mad at us? no!
                            Because we WONT FIND WHAT WE SEEK... IN THE FLESH.

                            We won't find "righteousness, peace and joy" in the flesh.
                            because "righteousness, peace and joy" are the "Kingdom!"
                            And the "Kingdom" is not a fleshly kingdom, nor can the flesh enter. For the flesh is the adversary, it is the prison, it is the walls that keep us out of the kingdom.
                            And it shall not enter.

                            But when we "seek" an intimate relationship with Yah, then His spirit comes in unto us, and "reveals" HIMSELF and the fact that it is he that is the authority of all... and this understanding, or knowledge or intimate relationship sheds our "blood" or guilt, and puts it on "him", which HE sheds HIMSELF... and all iniquity is removed, and our sins are remembered no more.

                            Does not the bride shed blood when she gives birth. and is her son not covered in her blood?

                            "At that day
                            shall a man look to his Maker,
                            and his eyes shall have respect
                            to the Holy One of Israel."
                            Isaiah 17:7


                            • #15
                              Anything ELOHIM says is HIS LAW.
                              To do anything that goes against HIS LAW is to do "that thing" without ELOHIM.
                              That is sin.

                              To think without HIS LAW is to think without ELOHIM.

                              Matthew 5:27 "You have heard that it was said, `Do not commit adultery.' 28 But I tell you that anyone who looks at a woman lustfully has already committed adultery with her in his heart. 29 If your right eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to be thrown into hell. 30 And if your right hand causes you to sin, cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one part of your body than for your whole body to go into hell.

                              Sin (transgression/go against) is anything/any action without ELOHIM.

                              I can understand how ONE in the "world" cannot see YESHUA in this "world". HIS BODY is still broken.

                              That's US.
                              WE are so busy disagreeing on opinions, that WE don't see how important our differences are. WE are created different so each part of HIS BODY is useful. No ONE, and I repeat, no ONE is useless in HIS BODY.

                              Let US unite in our differences in HIS LOVE.
                              Not the "self-righteous feeling" the "world" calls love, but HIS LOVE that is in US.

                              LOVE is treating another good and right (HIS LOVE in US)
                              no matter what ONE feels and
                              no matter what ONE thinks.
                              That is LOVE.

                              There is only ONE ISRAEL/ONE BODY.
                              ELOHIM says so!!!

                              Now, let US follow that
                              no matter what WE feel and
                              no matter what WE think.

                              Let US, the BRANCHES that have been broken off, graft ourselves back unto the ROOT, by believing what ELOHIM says.
                              HE is our SAVIOR.
                              HE is our GOD.

                              That is LOVING ELOHIM.

                              This is what I believe:

                              The only ONEs SAVED are of ABRAHAM's seed.
                              If you believe you are of ABRAHAM's seed because of birth, that is against HIS WORD.
                              If you believe that you are not of ABRAHAM's seed because of birth, that is against HIS WORD.

                              All blood is mixed. None is pure, except our SAVIOR's BLOOD.
                              HE was tempted and tormented that HIS death would be of no use; not even noticed.

                              Luke 16:19 "There was a rich man who was dressed in purple and fine linen and lived in luxury every day. 20 At his gate was laid a beggar named Lazarus, covered with sores 21 and longing to eat what fell from the rich man's table. Even the dogs came and licked his sores.

                              22 "The time came when the beggar died and the angels carried him to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried. 23 In hell, where he was in torment, he looked up and saw Abraham far away, with Lazarus by his side. 24 So he called to him, `Father Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.'

                              25 "But Abraham replied, `Son, remember that in your lifetime you received your good things, while Lazarus received bad things, but now he is comforted here and you are in agony. 26 And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, so that those who want to go from here to you cannot, nor can anyone cross over from there to us.'

                              27 "He answered, `Then I beg you, father, send Lazarus to my father's house, 28 for I have five brothers. Let him warn them, so that they will not also come to this place of torment.'

                              29 "Abraham replied, `They have Moses and the Prophets; let them listen to them.'

                              30 " `No, father Abraham,' he said, `but if someone from the dead goes to them, they will repent.'

                              31 "He said to him, `If they do not listen to Moses and the Prophets, they will not be convinced even if someone rises from the dead.' "

                              Let US believe what ELOHIM says.

                              If ONE finds it difficult to believe anything about MESSIAH, that's alright.
                              WE are CHOSEN, HE will not forget US.
                              Ask for HIS SPIRIT to indwell you as HIS SPIRIT did in Joseph, David, the Prophets...
                              YHWH will not deny you.
                              HE wants you with HIM.

                              HE is our GOD and WE are HIS PEOPLE!!!

                              WE are ONE!!!
                              The BODY of MESSIAH Ministry

                              I did not CREATE YOU for a certain time.
                              I CREATED YOU for ETERNITY.
                              I CREATED YOU for ME.
                              That is why I SAVED YOU.
                              For ME.

                              YOUR HUSBAND,