OK, Michael,
I opened another thread because I think that we are changing the subject of the previous one. I am getting back to "our" discussion regarding Jephthah. Regardless of what you and I believe, the record speaks for itself. Jephthah was not asked to sacrifice anyone. I can tell that. But in spite of having the "Spirit" of Yahweh come upon him ("wisdom" "counsel" "knowledge" and so one) he was not prevented from vowing and sacrificing anyone. Even after he made the vow. They even issued an "ordinance" (Strong #2706) in Israel endorsing Jephthah’s action!
Judges 11:39b …And it was a “custom” (#2706) in Israel,
BDB/Thayers # 2706
02706 choq {khoke} from 02710; TWOT - 728a; n m
KJV - statute 87, ordinance 9, decree 7, due 4, law 4, portion 3, bounds 2, custom 2, appointed 1, commandments 1, misc 7; 127
1) statute, ordinance, limit, something prescribed, due
1a) prescribed task
1b) prescribed portion
1c) action prescribed (for oneself), resolve
1d) prescribed due
1e) prescribed limit, boundary
1f) enactment, decree, ordinance
1f1) specific decree
1f2) law in general
1g) enactments, statutes
1g1) conditions
1g2) enactments
1g3) decrees
1g4) civil enactments prescribed by God
It was a civil ordinance for all the women in Israel to observe the burning offering of Jephthah’s daughter. It was like a national holiday. The KJV says "custom" but the word is "choq" "ordinance” or “law". The commemoration of the girl's sacrifice was made into an ORDINANCE for all the women in Israel to observe in a 4 day yearly celebration. I am sure that the ordinance was issued by the "elders" of Israel that we are supposed to listen to and obey them. Even Jesus Christ said to obey and do all that the Pharisees (teachers of the Law) tell you. So the whole vow was a very sacred deal. Would you object your daughter from observing the yearly 4-day moed of a human sacrifice to Yahweh? It must have gone on for many years.
I didn't say that Yahweh prompted Jephthah to sacrifice anyone, but the whole record implies that Jephthah was acting under the MIGHTY POWER of the Spirit of Yahweh! Now if you think that Jephthah did something improper on his own, then I wonder what good is it to be indwelled by all the MIGHTY POWER of the Spirit of Yahweh and still goof!
I don't believe that I goofed that badly yet. Hey, Survivor, what do you think? Talking about child abuse! Using one’s own daughter for a burnt offering! How would you have prevented that?
Anyway, Michael, I really believe that a lot of what we have in the Tanakh is not an infallible record. I thought that the NT had a lot of glitches, but I am finding out that the full Bible has a lot of glitches.
I am sure that we are all searching for the truth. I can't overlook to agree with you and DeAnna,
I am very happy to be in such a good company! Now I want to give you some documentation about it so you know where we are all coming from.
Take Jacob. He is the first Israelite ever. Actually his name was changed to Israel. Jacob is so much like Jephthah! He bargained in a vow to the “MIGHTY ONES” (i.e. Elohim) – I wonder if he knew more about Elohim than we DARE to know today. Anyway, the point that I want to make is based on Jacob’s experience.
Genesis 28:20-21 * Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If Elohim will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father's house, then Yahweh will be my Elohim…”
Jacob put Yahweh to the acid test! Unless Jacob had a solid response from Yahweh, Jacob would not trust in Yahweh. He made a vow to Yahweh. A vow is a solemn agreement in the Scriptures. Jacob personally and of his own free choice EMBRACED the Elohim of his grandpa Abraham only after putting him to the test. WE can all do the same thing! I have a secret desire in my heart known only to Elohim. If Elohim grants it to me then Yahweh will be my Elohim. In the meantime I just watch ‘n’ wait ‘n’ pray and so on… I don’t see anything wrong with that…
Jacob didn’t go for the promises that Elohim made to Abraham. He wanted something tangible NOW! If Yahweh fails to deliver… Jacob would most likely keep searching for another Elohim who can deliver on a bargain… Did Yahweh favor Jacob as a result of the vow? Was Yahweh in search of clients to worship him? Was Jacob a disinterested worshipper? I don’t think so. We certainly think that Yahweh is more intelligent than that. But regardless of what we think, the record is clear on Jephthah and on Jacob. They both bargained and put Yahweh on the spot and they both won! Isn’t that a challenge? Wowww that opens so many windows of opportunity...!!!
I opened another thread because I think that we are changing the subject of the previous one. I am getting back to "our" discussion regarding Jephthah. Regardless of what you and I believe, the record speaks for itself. Jephthah was not asked to sacrifice anyone. I can tell that. But in spite of having the "Spirit" of Yahweh come upon him ("wisdom" "counsel" "knowledge" and so one) he was not prevented from vowing and sacrificing anyone. Even after he made the vow. They even issued an "ordinance" (Strong #2706) in Israel endorsing Jephthah’s action!
Judges 11:39b …And it was a “custom” (#2706) in Israel,
BDB/Thayers # 2706
02706 choq {khoke} from 02710; TWOT - 728a; n m
KJV - statute 87, ordinance 9, decree 7, due 4, law 4, portion 3, bounds 2, custom 2, appointed 1, commandments 1, misc 7; 127
1) statute, ordinance, limit, something prescribed, due
1a) prescribed task
1b) prescribed portion
1c) action prescribed (for oneself), resolve
1d) prescribed due
1e) prescribed limit, boundary
1f) enactment, decree, ordinance
1f1) specific decree
1f2) law in general
1g) enactments, statutes
1g1) conditions
1g2) enactments
1g3) decrees
1g4) civil enactments prescribed by God
It was a civil ordinance for all the women in Israel to observe the burning offering of Jephthah’s daughter. It was like a national holiday. The KJV says "custom" but the word is "choq" "ordinance” or “law". The commemoration of the girl's sacrifice was made into an ORDINANCE for all the women in Israel to observe in a 4 day yearly celebration. I am sure that the ordinance was issued by the "elders" of Israel that we are supposed to listen to and obey them. Even Jesus Christ said to obey and do all that the Pharisees (teachers of the Law) tell you. So the whole vow was a very sacred deal. Would you object your daughter from observing the yearly 4-day moed of a human sacrifice to Yahweh? It must have gone on for many years.
I didn't say that Yahweh prompted Jephthah to sacrifice anyone, but the whole record implies that Jephthah was acting under the MIGHTY POWER of the Spirit of Yahweh! Now if you think that Jephthah did something improper on his own, then I wonder what good is it to be indwelled by all the MIGHTY POWER of the Spirit of Yahweh and still goof!
I don't believe that I goofed that badly yet. Hey, Survivor, what do you think? Talking about child abuse! Using one’s own daughter for a burnt offering! How would you have prevented that?
Anyway, Michael, I really believe that a lot of what we have in the Tanakh is not an infallible record. I thought that the NT had a lot of glitches, but I am finding out that the full Bible has a lot of glitches.
I am sure that we are all searching for the truth. I can't overlook to agree with you and DeAnna,
>>"DeAnna, in my understanding, true JEWs are those who take shelter in the name of Yahudah. No one is JEWish for genetic reasons. <<"
Well, Thummin... we are of the same mind here. I too believe the Israelites are those who take shelter in the name (Power/authority) of YHWH (The Existing One).
Well, Thummin... we are of the same mind here. I too believe the Israelites are those who take shelter in the name (Power/authority) of YHWH (The Existing One).
Take Jacob. He is the first Israelite ever. Actually his name was changed to Israel. Jacob is so much like Jephthah! He bargained in a vow to the “MIGHTY ONES” (i.e. Elohim) – I wonder if he knew more about Elohim than we DARE to know today. Anyway, the point that I want to make is based on Jacob’s experience.
Genesis 28:20-21 * Then Jacob made a vow, saying, "If Elohim will be with me and will watch over me on this journey I am taking and will give me food to eat and clothes to wear so that I return safely to my father's house, then Yahweh will be my Elohim…”
Jacob put Yahweh to the acid test! Unless Jacob had a solid response from Yahweh, Jacob would not trust in Yahweh. He made a vow to Yahweh. A vow is a solemn agreement in the Scriptures. Jacob personally and of his own free choice EMBRACED the Elohim of his grandpa Abraham only after putting him to the test. WE can all do the same thing! I have a secret desire in my heart known only to Elohim. If Elohim grants it to me then Yahweh will be my Elohim. In the meantime I just watch ‘n’ wait ‘n’ pray and so on… I don’t see anything wrong with that…
Jacob didn’t go for the promises that Elohim made to Abraham. He wanted something tangible NOW! If Yahweh fails to deliver… Jacob would most likely keep searching for another Elohim who can deliver on a bargain… Did Yahweh favor Jacob as a result of the vow? Was Yahweh in search of clients to worship him? Was Jacob a disinterested worshipper? I don’t think so. We certainly think that Yahweh is more intelligent than that. But regardless of what we think, the record is clear on Jephthah and on Jacob. They both bargained and put Yahweh on the spot and they both won! Isn’t that a challenge? Wowww that opens so many windows of opportunity...!!!
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