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  • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
    Well Ken, I can't speak for Troy Miller, but the quote above in blue by Hutton Webster is true, and the change over from using the moon took place AFTER Yah Messiah time, and this quote BELOW will prove that it happened by force of the Roman Emperor during Hillel 2 in AD 359, and OH, I put this information in my CREATED THREAD THAT YOU LOCKED UP too.

    See here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hillel_II

    And this same information was also put in Yah's Calendar In The Heavens that ye locked up, and I might add, that Spying IGNORED all of this historical info. and tried to turn the discussion into a personal issue to smoke screen, and I constantly asked him to show us in the pictorial calendar below of which days of the month the Saturday's will fall in a lunar month.

    N.M..1st 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30

    And does ye and Spying EVER observe any of the other lunar months in scriptures besides the 1st and 7th month, and do ye ever observe a 13th lunar month?

    Eliyahu, did you READ where Saturn's Day was the Jewish Sabbath during the time of Yeshua, or did you just ignore that? Ken

    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
      Eliyahu, did you READ where Saturn's Day was the Jewish Sabbath during the time of Yeshua, or did you just ignore that? Ken
      No I didn't Ken, maybe you can re-quote Webster's sentence words for us?
      A bit of revelation for ye.

      Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

      By His name YAH . Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

      Comment


      • Ken.
        Hutton Webster's very clear statement that Saturday (Saturn's day) was the Jewish Sabbath at the time of Yeshua.
        Ken, I don't see where Hutton Webster wrote this, ye add mirage sentences into his words as ye do to mine also.
        A bit of revelation for ye.

        Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

        By His name YAH . Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

        Comment


        • Eliyahu, sometimes I wonder about you. I went back and read what you posted on Hillel II and no where does it states that he changed from a lunar sabbath to a weekly sabbath. Only IN your imagination did that happen. What Hillel II accomplished was establishing a calendar that determined WHEN the New Moon would be each month, which established the Feast days, not the weekly Sabbath. If this was the TIME in history that a lunar sabbath was set aside, and a weekly Sabbath set up, believe me, there would have been extensive debates recorded, and there is nothing!

          Concerning your request about Hutton Webster's clear statement that the Jewish Sabbath fell on Saturn's day (saturday), he clearly told us that in the quote of his below, but as usual, you only "see" what you want to "see." Maybe if I highlight in bold and underline it might help you "see:"

          From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Pages 244-245
          The association of the Sabbath Day with Saturday probably one reason why Saturn, a planet in Babylonian astrological schemes regarded as beneficent rather than malefic, should have come to assume in late classical times the role of an unlucky star (sidus tristissimun, stella iniquissima). The oldest reference to Saturday is found in a verse by the poet Tibullus (dated 19 BC), who apparently identifies Saturn's Day with the supposed inauspicious Jewish Sabbath, when he gives as one of his excuses for not quitting Rome the bad omens which detained him on the "sacred day of Saturn." Ovid mentions "foreign Sabbaths" along with the anniversary of the day of the battle of the Allia - dits Alliensis - as unlucky occasions. Frontinus, a Roman military officer and tactician (dated about 103 ad), says that Vespasian defeated the Jews by attacking them on Saturn's Day, when it was unlawful for them to do anything. Dio Cassius also speaks of the Jews having dedicated to their god the day called the day of Saturn "on which among many other most peculiar actions they undertake no serious occupation."
          Now again, I don't "see" anywhere in what you presented that said Hillel II changed a lunar sabbath to a weekly Sabbath, but at least I can "see" where Hutton Webster CLEARLY states that the Jewish Sabbath fell on Saturn's day, by the above references, and this all occurred IN or ABOUT Yeshua's time. And you really should speak for Troy Miller and confess that he either deceptively used Hutton Webster, or he doesn't comprehend what he reads very well. Ken
          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
          Abstain from meats offered to idols
          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

          Comment


          • Eliyahu, I should also add this statement of Hutton Webster to the mix:

            From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Page 244:
            It was not until the first century of our era when the planetary week had become an established institution that the Jewish Sabbath seems always to have corresponded to Saturn's Day.
            Ken
            Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

            Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
            Abstain from meats offered to idols
            (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
            So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

            Comment


            • Shalom Everyone, since we have firmly established that Hutton Webster declared that Saturn's Day (Saturday) was the Jewish Sabbath in the FIRST Century (at the time of Yeshua), let's look at another one of Troy Miller's esteemed scholar's statements:

              From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Pages 254-255:
              The Passover, observed on the fourteenth day of the first month (Nisan), was followed on the fifteenth day by the Feast of Unleavened Bread, occupying seven days. The Feast of Tabernacles began on the fifteenth of the month (Tishri) and likewise continued for seven days. The religious importance of these two festivals is indicated by the injunction to keep the first and last days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread as times of "holy convocation" when no "servile work" might be done, and by the significant expression shabbathon ("solemn rest"), which is used in reference to the beginning and end of the Feast of Tabernacles, that is to the fifteenth and twenty second of the month Tishri.
              Everyone, please note that Hutton Webster very clearly states that the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (this would be the 15th and 21st days of the month) are shabbathon! Those who keep the false lunar sabbath cannot have the LAST day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 21st) be a shabbathon, because THEN you would have a SPECIAL Sabbath (the shabbathon) fall BETWEEN two weekly 7th Day Sabbaths, and this would DESTROY their FALSE lunar sabbath theory. So what is puzzling to me is that Troy Miller will use multiple quotes from Hutton Webster in his 20 page "Evidence In Miniature" document to validate his false lunar sabbath theory, but then when you look closely at what Hutton has to say, the false lunar sabbath theory is destroyed. Go figure! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

              P.S. Here are a few of the Scriptures that CLEARLY state the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are shabbathon's (the 15th and 21st days of the 1st month), which is WHY Hutton Webster could truthfully state it to be so:

              (Ex 12:16) And in the first day (the 15th) [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day (the LAST day of the Feast - the 21st) there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

              (Lev 23:6-8)
              (6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yehovah: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

              (7) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

              (8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

              (Num 28:17-18 & 25)
              (17) And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

              (18) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]:

              (25) And on the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

              (Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day (the LAST day of eating Unleavened Bread [the seventh day, and LAST day of the Feast] - the 21st day of the month) [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein].
              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
              Abstain from meats offered to idols
              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                Shalom Everyone, since we have firmly established that Hutton Webster declared that Saturn's Day (Saturday) was the Jewish Sabbath in the FIRST Century (at the time of Yeshua), let's look at another one of Troy Miller's esteemed scholar's statements:

                From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Pages 254-255:Everyone, please note that Hutton Webster very clearly states that the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (this would be the 15th and 21st days of the month) are shabbathon! Those who keep the false lunar sabbath cannot have the LAST day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 21st) be a shabbathon, because THEN you would have a SPECIAL Sabbath (the shabbathon) fall BETWEEN two weekly 7th Day Sabbaths, and this would DESTROY their FALSE lunar sabbath theory. So what is puzzling to me is that Troy Miller will use multiple quotes from Hutton Webster in his 20 page "Evidence In Miniature" document to validate his false lunar sabbath theory, but then when you look closely at what Hutton has to say, the false lunar sabbath theory is destroyed. Go figure! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

                P.S. Here are a few of the Scriptures that CLEARLY state the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are shabbathon's (the 15th and 21st days of the 1st month), which is WHY Hutton Webster could truthfully state it to be so:

                (Ex 12:16) And in the first day (the 15th) [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day (the LAST day of the Feast - the 21st) there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

                (Lev 23:6-8)
                (6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yehovah: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

                (7) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

                (8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

                (Num 28:17-18 & 25)
                (17) And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

                (18) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]:

                (25) And on the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

                (Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day (the LAST day of eating Unleavened Bread [the seventh day, and LAST day of the Feast] - the 21st day of the month) [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein].
                Iamahebrew: I will requote your own words back to you here that you wrote to Eliyah; because your words seem to apply to you as well.

                Shalom Eliyahu [Ken], here is what you do. You will quote a Scripture and then you will ADD in your OWN words to CHANGE the meaning of the verse.
                View your own words here: Slight of hand post # 162

                (8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].
                Moses uses the words 'seventh day' H7637H7637] here in the last portion of this text; as it is the same word that references the seventh day Sabbath, and the last portion of this text does not use the words 'one and twentieth day' and this text does not use the words 'day seven' or 'seven days' in the last portion of this text either, as you can view for yourself the Hebrew word number H7651.

                So Eliyahu is correct on Moses usage of the Hebrew word number H7637 which is a reference to the seventh day Sabbath and not the cardinal number 'seven' that is used in the first portion of these texts.


                Comment


                • Imahebrew: In your mind is the 15th day of the first month a 'Sabbath day' or no?

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                    Shalom Everyone, since we have firmly established that Hutton Webster declared that Saturn's Day (Saturday) was the Jewish Sabbath in the FIRST Century (at the time of Yeshua), let's look at another one of Troy Miller's esteemed scholar's statements:

                    From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Pages 254-255:Everyone, please note that Hutton Webster very clearly states that the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (this would be the 15th and 21st days of the month) are shabbathon! Those who keep the false lunar sabbath cannot have the LAST day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread (the 21st) be a shabbathon, because THEN you would have a SPECIAL Sabbath (the shabbathon) fall BETWEEN two weekly 7th Day Sabbaths, and this would DESTROY their FALSE lunar sabbath theory. So what is puzzling to me is that Troy Miller will use multiple quotes from Hutton Webster in his 20 page "Evidence In Miniature" document to validate his false lunar sabbath theory, but then when you look closely at what Hutton has to say, the false lunar sabbath theory is destroyed. Go figure! Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

                    P.S. Here are a few of the Scriptures that CLEARLY state the FIRST and LAST days of the Feast of Unleavened Bread are shabbathon's (the 15th and 21st days of the 1st month), which is WHY Hutton Webster could truthfully state it to be so:

                    (Ex 12:16) And in the first day (the 15th) [there shall be] an holy convocation, and in the seventh day (the LAST day of the Feast - the 21st) there shall be an holy convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save [that] which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.

                    (Lev 23:6-8)
                    (6) And on the fifteenth day of the same month [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yehovah: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

                    (7) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

                    (8) But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yehovah seven days: in the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

                    (Num 28:17-18 & 25)
                    (17) And in the fifteenth day of this month [is] the feast: seven days shall unleavened bread be eaten.

                    (18) In the first day (the 15th day of the month) [shall be] an holy convocation; ye shall do no manner of servile work [therein]:

                    (25) And on the seventh day (the 21st day of the month - LAST day of the seven days of the Feast) ye shall have an holy convocation; ye shall do no servile work.

                    (Deut 16:8) Six days thou shalt eat unleavened bread: and on the seventh day (the LAST day of eating Unleavened Bread [the seventh day, and LAST day of the Feast] - the 21st day of the month) [shall be] a solemn assembly to Yehovah thy Elohim: thou shalt do no work [therein].
                    Ken,

                    Let's ASSUME ye are correct above for a moment, and let's put your HOLY CONVOCATION Sabbath days in a lunar calendar format below, and the holy convocation Sabbaths in red, and the workdays in blue.

                    New moon=1st 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 14th 15th=holy convocation Sabbath 16th=1 workday 17th=2 workdays 18th=3 workdays 19th=4 workdays 20th=5 workdays 21st=holy convocation Sabbath

                    Do ye see the problem with this above Ken, there are ONLY 5 workdays in your scenario above, and not 6? This below is the FULL fourth commandment.

                    Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed. Exodus 23:12

                    The commandment to work six days is just as valid as the seventh day Sabbath of rest.

                    A bit of revelation for ye.

                    Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

                    By His name YAH . Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                      Eliyahu, sometimes I wonder about you. I went back and read what you posted on Hillel II and no where does it states that he changed from a lunar sabbath to a weekly sabbath. Only IN your imagination did that happen. What Hillel II accomplished was establishing a calendar that determined WHEN the New Moon would be each month, which established the Feast days, not the weekly Sabbath. If this was the TIME in history that a lunar sabbath was set aside, and a weekly Sabbath set up, believe me, there would have been extensive debates recorded, and there is nothing!

                      Concerning your request about Hutton Webster's clear statement that the Jewish Sabbath fell on Saturn's day (saturday), he clearly told us that in the quote of his below, but as usual, you only "see" what you want to "see." Maybe if I highlight in bold and underline it might help you "see:"

                      From Hutton Webster's "Rest Days" Pages 244-245


                      Now again, I don't "see" anywhere in what you presented that said Hillel II changed a lunar sabbath to a weekly Sabbath, but at least I can "see" where Hutton Webster CLEARLY states that the Jewish Sabbath fell on Saturn's day, by the above references, and this all occurred IN or ABOUT Yeshua's time. And you really should speak for Troy Miller and confess that he either deceptively used Hutton Webster, or he doesn't comprehend what he reads very well. Ken
                      Ken, ye are the one that needs to speak to Troy Miller, he is IN your neck of the woods, and ye are ADDING in your own ideas into Hutton Webster's words.

                      And Hutton Webster also writes elsewhere that "Saturns day" was THE FIRST DAY of the planetary or astrological week of Rome, and NOT the seventh day, but ye forgot to mention that though huh? And it was during Hillel 2nds time that the modern Jewish calendar came about.

                      And I'm going to re-quote many more historical writings proving this.




                      A bit of revelation for ye.

                      Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

                      By His name YAH . Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by guyguy View Post
                        Iamahebrew: I will requote your own words back to you here that you wrote to Eliyah; because your words seem to apply to you as well.

                        View your own words here: Slight of hand post # 162


                        Moses uses the words 'seventh day' H7637H7637] here in the last portion of this text; as it is the same word that references the seventh day Sabbath, and the last portion of this text does not use the words 'one and twentieth day' and this text does not use the words 'day seven' or 'seven days' in the last portion of this text either, as you can view for yourself the Hebrew word number H7651.

                        So Eliyahu is correct on Moses usage of the Hebrew word number H7637 which is a reference to the seventh day Sabbath and not the cardinal number 'seven' that is used in the first portion of these texts.
                        Shalom guyguy, good of you to try to help out Eliyahu. Now, let me see if I follow your reasoning. According to your interpretation, the Hebrew word H7637 used in Lev 23:8 is NOT a Hebrew word that can denote the number seven, but refers to the seventh day sabbath, therefore, your lunar sabbath is this seventh day of the week sabbath, the 22nd day of the month, instead of the seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread, the 21st day of the month? Hopefully I captured your interpretation properly. OK, well, then let's apply YOUR private interpretation of the Hebrew word H7637 to Joshua 6:4:

                        (Josh 6:4) And seven (H7651) priests shall bear before the ark seven (H7651) trumpets of rams’ horns: and the seventh (H7637) day ye shall compass the city seven (H7651) times, and the priests shall blow with the trumpets.

                        Do you see what you have before you guyguy? You have H7637 being the SEVENTH day where the priests compassed the city seven times, and by YOUR very OWN private interpretation of what that Hebrew word must mean (the seventh day sabbath), you have the children of Israel marching around Jericho on YOUR weekly lunar sabbath. Now, IF, Lev 23:8 requires from YOU that H7637 IS the seventh day weekly Sabbath, and NOT the seventh day of the Feast, then YOUR private interpretation is against what Eliyahu has taught here in this POST. You see, Eliyahu specifically states that the seventh day (H7637) of Joshua 6:4 is NOT the seventh day sabbath, but rather, the seventh day of the month. HMM? Now IF Eliyahu is correct in his OWN private interpretation that this seventh day (H7637) is not the seventh day sabbath, then what would keep the seventh day of Lev 23:8 from not being the seventh day of the Feast, the 21st day of the month? Please clarify either YOUR error, or Eliyahu's. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.
                        Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                        Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                        Abstain from meats offered to idols
                        (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                        So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by guyguy View Post
                          Imahebrew: In your mind is the 15th day of the first month a 'Sabbath day' or no?
                          Shalom guyguy, sure, it is just like the 15th day of the seventh month (Lev 23:39), and like the 1st day of the 7th month (Lev 23:24), a sabbathon...H7677..a rest day, but not like the 7th day weekly sabbath H7676, or the Day of Atonement Sabbath (10th day of the 7th month - Lev 16:31). Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew.

                          P.S. And I just realized I should ask you this question: "In your mind is the 1st day of the seventh month, and/or the 10th day of the seventh month a 'Sabbath day' or no?"
                          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                          Abstain from meats offered to idols
                          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                            Ken,

                            Let's ASSUME ye are correct above for a moment, and let's put your HOLY CONVOCATION Sabbath days in a lunar calendar format below, and the holy convocation Sabbaths in red, and the workdays in blue.

                            New moon=1st 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 12 13 14th 15th=holy convocation Sabbath 16th=1 workday 17th=2 workdays 18th=3 workdays 19th=4 workdays 20th=5 workdays 21st=holy convocation Sabbath

                            Do ye see the problem with this above Ken, there are ONLY 5 workdays in your scenario above, and not 6? This below is the FULL fourth commandment.

                            Six days thou shalt do thy work, and on the seventh day thou shalt rest: that thine ox and thine ass may rest, and the son of thy handmaid, and the stranger, may be refreshed. Exodus 23:12

                            The commandment to work six days is just as valid as the seventh day Sabbath of rest.
                            Eliyahu, we have been through this many times. The Day of Atonement Sabbath breaks the commandment to work six days, and IF it can, why can't the special Sabbaths that fall on the various Feast days ALSO do the same. Your argument is null and void! Ken

                            Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                            Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                            Abstain from meats offered to idols
                            (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                            So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

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                            • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                              Ken, ye are the one that needs to speak to Troy Miller, he is IN your neck of the woods, and ye are ADDING in your own ideas into Hutton Webster's words. Please Eliyah, show us where I have added in my own ideas INTO Hutton Webster's words?

                              And Hutton Webster also writes elsewhere that "Saturns day" was THE FIRST DAY of the planetary or astrological week of Rome, and NOT the seventh day, but ye forgot to mention that though huh? Hutton Webster speaks of NUMEROUS different calendars, and the different numbering of the days, but HIS concept of the Jewish Sabbath was on the SEVENTH or LAST day of the week, which was ALSO Saturn's day (saturday). Do I need to re-post all of that to you? And it was during Hillel 2nds time that the modern Jewish calendar came about. Please Eliyahu, give me ONE historical document or writing that says Hillel II changed the 7th day sabbath observance from a lunar calendar to the current weekly calendar?

                              And I'm going to re-quote many more historical writings proving this.
                              Eliyahu, PLEASE, answer my questions in red above. Ken

                              P.S. And YOU are the one who introduced us to, and used Troy Miller back in 2014 to validate YOUR lunar sabbath, not me, so IF anyone needs to speak to Troy about his misuse of Hutton Webster, I would think it should be you.
                              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                              Abstain from meats offered to idols
                              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                                Eliyahu, PLEASE, answer my questions in red above. Ken

                                P.S. And YOU are the one who introduced us to, and used Troy Miller back in 2014 to validate YOUR lunar sabbath, not me, so IF anyone needs to speak to Troy about his misuse of Hutton Webster, I would think it should be you.
                                Ken, ye are the one accusing Troy Miller and NOT I, and as Troy Miller was pointing out from Hutton Webster's written quote that the Hebrews did observe a LUNAR WEEK as Hutton Webster wrote, but I guess that quote of Hutton Webster does not matter to you does it.

                                I told you the change took place from 321-325 by the Romans, and in the time of Hillel 2 359 the Jews were forced by Rome to adopt the new solar only seven day week.

                                However, here below is another writer that writes the truth about the history of not only the ROMAN WEEK, but also of the Hebrew's LUNAR WEEK, and this person is pointing out that Daniel's seventy weeks prophecy timeline can only be understood correctly when LUNAR WEEKS by the moon are used, because the Hebrews used a lunar week, and the scriptures do prove this too.

                                There is more to this story of the Julian calendar than we have been told. This solar Julian calendar did undergo a very significant change at the Council of Nicaea in 325 A.D.. It is something we discover as we "connect the dots". Whilst the Julian years and dates of the month were allowed to continue unchanged we can discern that there was a big change to the days in a week AND the weekly cadence of the week. Here is a brief background to the story.

                                The earlier Roman week, the week that was used by Rome in the First Century, was not a seven day week. It was an 8 day week, in which the days were labeled A-H. This was called the Nundinal Cycle. The 9th day, the first day of the next Roman week was known as "Market Day".

                                At the Council of Nicaea two significant changes were made to the Julian calendar. These changes did not affect in any way the faithful continuation of the Julian year and the running of the days of the month. But the layout of the week was profoundly changed and the cadence of the week as compared to the cadence of the Hebrew seven day week was quite different. Here is what happened.
                                1. the 8 day week was changed to a seven day week.
                                2. This new seven day week was reset with the first day of the new seven day week honoring the pagan "Sun" god as "SunDay".
                                http://endtimepilgrim.org/70wks5.htm

                                Now, I asked you, why do ye and Spying only observe parts of the 1st and 7th lunar month, and NEVER observe any of the other 12 and 13th lunar months used in the scriptures?
                                A bit of revelation for ye.

                                Messiah is the I AM He YAH of Scriptures, and He says so in John 8:58, and they would NOT believe Him either, will ye believe Him, and Messiah said to them- I said therefore unto you, that ye shall die in your sins: for if ye believe not that I AM HE/YAH, ye shall die in your sins. John 8:24; See also Exodus 3:13-15.

                                By His name YAH . Psalms 68:4 N.K.J.V

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