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Did Yeshua Slay or Kill Himself?

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  • Eliyah
    replied
    And Spying,

    It was YAH Elohim the Father that chose Messiah as our sin offering sacrifice Luke 23:35; 2 Corinthians 5:21, and not us who chose Him.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Spying, look inside your post for the answers.


    Originally posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Shabbat Shalom to the Sabbath Breaker!Spying, well have you said of yourself here, because you are a scriptural lunar Sabbath day breaker, and WHY have you NEVER shown us any day in the scriptures, where your Saturn-day falls or is identified?? Hmm?

    You wrote and asserted this on another thread:

    "How did you offer up as the wave sheaf your own sins in the Most Holy Place in Heaven without Messiah Himself doing it for you Hebrews 7:27?

    You see Ken, you and Spying want to ignore Messiah fulfilling the law in the Most Holy Place in Heaven as your High Priest, and ONLY the High Priest was allowed to enter the Most Holy Place, and no one else was allowed."


    There have been many occasions in which I have answered your questions without any awareness on your part that an answer has been rendered to you. That is not your fault if you have not been given eyes to see or ears to hear.

    Even so, I am going to answer you directly right here, not seeking to spare you any embarrassment at your total lack of understanding.

    Please hear this answer: If Messiah Yahushua died in your stead, then you must of necessity also admit that Messiah does now live and reign in your stead! There is no alternative to your curremt belief in substitutionalism, to your total belief in in my steadism. Where did I write and say that, I believed in substitutionalism, as you falsely say??

    My Messiah Yahushus did not die in my stead. I according to the Law did die with HIM, and because I myself did die with HIM, and was buried with HIM, I have opportunity to now live with HIM. And where do I now live with HIM, EliYah? I will not wait for your answer. I live with HIM in the Holiest, that is, in the Holy Of Holies. As this Scriptures does say:

    Hebrews 10:19-20
    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Yahushua,
    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated (renewed) for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;Spying, where does this scripture speak of an offering sacrifice for your sin, and are you not trying to read your own idea into this text?? And are you not forgetting these texts of scriptures of Messiah Himself as the High Priest fulfilling the law? Now when these things were thus ordained, the priests went always into the first tabernacle, accomplishing the service of God.

    But into the second went the high priest alone once every year, not without blood, which he offered for himself, and for the errors of the people:...How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:6-7, 14


    I have entered into the Holy of Holies with Messiah Yahushua because I am a part of HIS flesh, and I do now dwell in the Holiest because HIS Blood is my Blood. I am sorry to say that you yourself have no concept of these spiritual things. You yourself are clueless with respect to these thing, and both ImAHebrew and myself are very close with closing the Book on you. I will not tell you what this means, but you will understand when we do close the Book.If you entered the second Holy Place, then please show us in Leviticus where anyone else was allowed in there with the HIGH PRIEST??

    Until then, please consider and chew the cud on this Scripture:

    Ephesians 2:5-6
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Messiah, (by grace ye are saved
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Messiah Yahushua:

    Poor Old, EliYah, it is very clear to me that you, yourself, do now sit in this world with all the other dead souls!

    Please reply as you are able, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Now Spying,

    How much more shall the blood of Christ/Messiah, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself without spot to God, purge your conscience from dead works to serve the living God? Hebrews 9:14.

    Spying, suppose you tell us, how you purged your own conscience from dead works, without Messiah Himself doing it??

    PS: Old buddy, it is you who are dead, because your anti-Messiah doctrine denies/contradicts what Messiah did and does for you.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    Sitting In The Holy of Holies!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Shabbat Shalom to the Sabbath Breaker!

    You wrote and asserted this on another thread:

    "How did you offer up as the wave sheaf your own sins in the Most Holy Place in Heaven without Messiah Himself doing it for you Hebrews 7:27?

    You see Ken, you and Spying want to ignore Messiah fulfilling the law in the Most Holy Place in Heaven as your High Priest, and ONLY the High Priest was allowed to enter the Most Holy Place, and no one else was allowed."


    There have been many occasions in which I have answered your questions without any awareness on your part that an answer has been rendered to you. That is not your fault if you have not been given eyes to see or ears to hear.

    Even so, I am going to answer you directly right here, not seeking to spare you any embarrassment at your total lack of understanding.

    Please hear this answer: If Messiah Yahushua died in your stead, then you must of necessity also admit that Messiah does now live and reign in your stead! There is no alternative to your curremt belief in substitutionalism, to your total belief in in my steadism.

    My Messiah Yahushus did not die in my stead. I according to the Law did die with HIM, and because I myself did die with HIM, and was buried with HIM, I have opportunity to now live with HIM. And where do I now live with HIM, EliYah? I will not wait for your answer. I live with HIM in the Holiest, that is, in the Holy Of Holies. As this Scriptures does say:

    Hebrews 10:19-20
    19 Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Yahushua,
    20 By a new and living way, which he hath consecrated (renewed) for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

    I have entered into the Holy of Holies with Messiah Yahushua because I am a part of HIS flesh, and I do now dwell in the Holiest because HIS Blood is my Blood. I am sorry to say that you yourself have no concept of these spiritual things. You yourself are clueless with respect to these thing, and both ImAHebrew and myself are very close with closing the Book on you. I will not tell you what this means, but you will understand when we do close the Book.

    Until then, please consider and chew the cud on this Scripture:

    Ephesians 2:5-6
    5 Even when we were dead in sins, hath quickened us together with Messiah, (by grace ye are saved
    6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Messiah Yahushua:

    Poor Old, EliYah, it is very clear to me that you, yourself, do now sit in this world with all the other dead souls!

    Please reply as you are able, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Ken, no you have not been honest in answering my questions either, and to give you an answer, would be giving your Pharisee master Spying the answer too.

    So, I will give Spying's answer:

    For the most part, Spying, Ken, I do not directly answer questions anymore rendered to me because I am hoping that you yourself will receive the answer directly from My Messiah Yahushua. Do you hear HIS voice and does HE speak directly to you through HIS Good Spirit? It is only in this hearing that we can become Brothers!

    Leave a comment:


  • ImAHebrew
    replied
    Originally posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    If it is not too much trouble, could you please explain for me how it is that the blood of Messiah Yahushua does cleanse us from all sin?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
    Spying, the scriptures does explain this, however, since you like playing your Phariseeical games of avoiding my questions asked of you, then neither you will receive an answer to your question.
    Shalom Eliyahu, since I have been honestly and sincerely answering your questions, I would also like to hear your answer as to HOW it is that the blood of Messiah Yeshua does cleanse us from all sin? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Originally posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    If it is not too much trouble, could you please explain for me how it is that the blood of Messiah Yahushua does cleanse us from all sin?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    And Spying,

    Maybe I should play your game and reply the same as you did to me regarding questions asked.

    For the most part, Spying, I do not directly answer questions rendered to me because I am hoping that you yourself will receive the answer directly from My Messiah Yahushua. Do you hear HIS voice and does HE speak directly to you through HIS Good Spirit? It is only in this hearing that we can become Brothers!

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Originally posted by Spying View Post
    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    If it is not too much trouble, could you please explain for me how it is that the blood of Messiah Yahushua does cleanse us from all sin?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    Spying, the scriptures does explain this, however, since you like playing your Phariseeical games of avoiding my questions asked of you, then neither you will receive an answer to your question.

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    The Power Of The Blood To Cleanse!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    If it is not too much trouble, could you please explain for me how it is that the blood of Messiah Yahushua does cleanse us from all sin?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    The Process!

    Hi Lucy,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    You asserted this to us in your post #70 on this thread:

    "The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all" ( Isa 53:6)."

    Of course, I must assume that the LORD here is the good YAHWEH and not the bad YAHWEH which in your mind is HaSatan.

    If it is not too much trouble, could you please explain to me how the good YAHWEH placed the sins of the whole world upon My Messiah Yahushua? What was the process by which this did occur?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr

    Leave a comment:


  • LucySmith
    replied
    just a re look at your opinion Dear Spying

    Nowhere does the Law allow sacrifice for deliberate or presumptive sins save perhaps for the communal sacrifice which is offered on the Day of Atonement. The Law manifestly requires the death of the deliberate sinner for his or her individual sin. So, according to the Law, a deliberate murderer must be put to death. There is no place of safety for the deliberate murderer. The blood avenger is allowed to seek out a deliberate murderer, and put him or her to death with complete impunity. Actually, the death penalty is required for deliberately transgressing any of the Ten Commandments. They are all mortal sins.
    i would refer you to this opinion you posted
    There is no place of safety for the deliberate murderer.
    really
    CAIN was very well looked after, infact, moved on in leaps and bounds to found a city.
    MOSES himself a MURDERER,moved on in leaps and bounds to become a leader and a revered hero
    YHWH had many nations murdered by his own hand or on his order

    crime does pay.


    its the dualism that is so hateful - one day accepted the next day not accepted and remember OUR FATHER IS NOT THE AUTHOR OF CONFUSION

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Spying,

    The apostle John wrote:

    But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us.

    If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 1 John 1:7-9.

    So I or no one else needs to run through yours and Ken's doctrinal hoops to know of their past sins and to repent, and we certainly know to not keep repeating our sins without running through your doctrinal hoops too, because the scriptures make this abundantly clear.

    And be sure that you willfully ignore all of these texts of scriptures BELOW that reprove you:

    http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...+the+law&t=KJV

    Leave a comment:


  • Spying
    replied
    The Avenger Of Innocent Blood Does Exist!

    Hi EliYah,
    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!
    I used the Reply With Quote link at the bottom of your post #715 on page 48 of your "The Watchman" thread. Of course, the quotes of ImAHebrew were not found on the Reply With Quote window so I then added them in after I copied and pasted a portion of your post to the new reply window on this thread:
    Originally posted by Eliyah
    Ken, I fully understand yours and Spying's doctrine old buddy, both Guyguy and myself have talked with each other on the phone about your contradicting anti-Messiah doctrine which you teach.

    The apostle Paul is simply saying in Romans 5:20, that where a Person's sins did abound, Elohim's grace did abound even more than a person's past sins, and why did YOU not quote the apostle Paul in his full context of what he wrote and said, instead of giving one verse, and then putting your own idea and interpretation above his own?

    What shall we say then? Shall we continue in sin, that grace may abound? Romans 6:1

    What was Paul's answer to his own questions asked? God forbid. How shall we, that are dead to sin, live any longer therein? Romans 6:2.

    God forbid. Evidently some had accused Paul of the very doctrine that you teach, and Paul is refuting this here by saying GOD FORBID!

    The more sin that is done, the more righteousness that is given, and the ONLY way that works is to REALIZE that BY SINNING, ALL have Sacrificed Yeshua as THEIR sin offering, thus fulfilling what the Law demanded of them.
    And you teaching this only encourages people to sin/or transgress the law 1 John 3:4 even more, so they can get even more righteousness? Hmm, so a person has to break the law thou shalt not murder in order to fulfill the law. Man did Paul prophesy of those like you in the latter times.

    Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils/demons; Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 1 Timothy 4:1-2.

    You murdered Him, you killed Him, and this your sin can be turned INTO righteousness, if you have enough FAITH.
    Hmm, so if a person murders others, this their sin/or transgression 1 John 3:4 can be turned INTO righteousness, according to you.
    As you can see, EliYah, one can use the Reply With Quote feature and then with a little bit of further editing add back into the quote those quotes which were left out. It is not hard to do, but it does take a little more work on the poster's part to show the quotes within a quote.

    The reason I took the trouble to transfer your words to this thread was to address with you your slanderous accusation that ImaHebrew and myself are teaching that we did deliberately murder Messiah Yahushua in order to receive the gift of righteousness. This accusation is totally false, and its very existence shows that you yourself have very little understanding of what the Law requires.

    Nowhere does the Law allow sacrifice for deliberate or presumptive sins save perhaps for the communal sacrifice which is offered on the Day of Atonement. The Law manifestly requires the death of the deliberate sinner for his or her individual sin. So, according to the Law, a deliberate murderer must be put to death. There is no place of safety for the deliberate murderer. The blood avenger is allowed to seek out a deliberate murderer, and put him or her to death with complete impunity. Actually, the death penalty is required for deliberately transgressing any of the Ten Commandments. They are all mortal sins.

    My Messiah Yahushua understood the above requirements of the Law, and this understanding is why Messiah cried this out from HIS Cross:

    Luke 23:34
    34 Then said Yahushua, Father, forgive them; for they know not what they do. And they parted his raiment, and cast lots.

    Neither ImAHebrew nor myself were aware that our transgressions of the Law contributed to the suffering and death of Yahushua. I know that before my conversion that many of my transgressions were deliberate offences, but once I was brought to the realization that these my sins murdered Messiah Yahushua, I was forced to repent of all my sins. Without repentance, the Blood Avenger exists to avenge the deliberate shedding of innocent blood. There exists no city of refuge for all those who refuse to repent of their participation in the crucifixion and death of Messiah Yahushua.

    So, EliYah, as far as I am concerned, ImAHebrew has done a very good work in explaining to you the true concept of grace as taught by the Apostle Paul in Romans 5. Through your sacrifice of Messiah Yahushua by your sin, you not only do receive a gift of righteousness, but you also receive a gift of death if you the sinner did indeed die with HIM. Both are imputed to you through your faith. This outcome is very important, EliYah. If the Blood Avenger recognizes that EliYah, the Sinner, was crucified and put to death with Messiah Yahushua, then the Blood Avenger will not seek your life. Believe me, you do not want to fall into the hands of the Blood Avenger.

    You have a great need that these things be taught to you so pay attention while you yet have opportunity.

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    And Ken,

    I do believe that both Lucy and myself are in total lock step agreement on this issue, and nothing or no one will ever cause us to betray our interceding Melchesidec High Priest who clothes us in His righteousness and gives us His eternal life.

    Leave a comment:


  • Eliyah
    replied
    Ken,

    Exactly as it is written, and Ken, your not going to change neither Lucy's or my mind on this matter, because Messiah the Life Person taught it to us.

    Leave a comment:


  • ImAHebrew
    replied
    So the "Lord" took Yeshua's life?

    Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
    Lucy,

    Indeed, and so does Acts 2:23; Romans 8:32, and see Romans 3:25.
    10 Yet it was the LORD’s will to crush him and cause him to suffer, and though the LORD makes his life an offering for sin,
    Lucy and Shalom Eliyahu, so are you now saying that the "Lord" took Yeshua's life as a sin offering, and that Yeshua didn't offer Himself? Ken

    Leave a comment:

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