Did Yeshua Slay or Kill Himself?

[ImAHebrew]

It is just your interpretation/opinion.

Also Lucy,

It's the Body of Messiah that judges these matters, and it's the scriptures that determine their decisions.

And the scriptural seventh day Sabbath can only be determined from the new moon day of every month on Yah's Lunar/Solar calendar, and those who observe a false week and day have the Mark upon them, and buying and selling is much more difficult for the true scriptural Sabbath keepers.

But of course this above is my own opinion about the scriptures, and this can and has been proven from the scriptures.

Shalom Eliyahu, yes, it is just your opinion, but the Scriptures show something else. Please look at the Scriptures which show the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Tabernacles. You will notice that BOTH Feasts start on the 15th day of their perspective months, and each Feast is SEVEN days:

Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month (First Month) [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yahweh: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Lev 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month [shall be] the feast of tabernacles [for] seven days unto Yahweh.

Then we have stated that with BOTH Feasts, the FIRST day of each Feast is to be a Holy Convocation, and no servile work could be done:

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Lev 23:35 On the first day [shall be] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Now, you proclaim that these 15th days of these TWO months, which also is the FIRST day of each Feast, that these FIRST days of the Feasts are ALSO a lunar sabbath day (the 15th day of the month). So according to you and what you teach, then the 22nd days of each month would also become a lunar sabbath. But here is where you have a problem. With the Feast of Unleavened Bread, it states that SEVEN days an offering shall be made by fire, and in the SEVENTH day it is a holy convocation, with no servile work done. Then when you look at the Feast of Tabernacles, it states the same thing about SEVEN days of making an offering by fire, and then on the EIGHTH day, there is an additional day to make an offering by fire, and it is a holy convocation, with no servile work done...do you see your PROBLEM:

Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: it [is] a solemn assembly; [and] ye shall do no servile work [therein].

So the Scriptures are very CLEAR. The Feast of Unleavened Bread has SEVEN days with an offering made by fire, and the SEVENTH day is an Holy Convocation, with no servile work done. The Feast of Tabernacles has SEVEN days with an offering made by fire, but instead of the Holy Convocation occurring on the SEVENTH day, there is an ADDITIONAL day ADDED which has another offering made by fire, and this additional day is called the EIGHTH day, not the SEVENTH day, and it has a Holy Convocation, with no servile work done. Do you see this Eliyahu? The SEVENTH day spoken of in the Feast of Unleavened Bread, is the 21st day of the month, and the EIGHTH day spoken of in the Feast of Tabernacles, is the 22nd day of the month. This very clearly DESTROYS your lunar sabbath teaching. Now, I know you will try to wrest these very clear Scriptures to mean something that becomes YOUR opinion, but YOUR opinion is NOT the proper interpretation of what the Scriptures are saying. The Scriptures are clearly saying that the SEVENTH day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath, and it falls on the 21st day of the 1st month, not the 22nd day. Then with the EIGHTH day, which follows the SEVEN days of the Feast of Tabernacles, you have this EIGHTH day falling on the 22nd day of the 7th month, not the 21st day as Unleavened Bread falls. So Eliyahu, you need to take everything you teach about the lunar sabbath and throw it in the waste basket, and then we can start to join with each other instead of battling each other. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

[LucySmith]

You cannot join dead people to the living ken

Jesus said so
let the dead bury the dead.


and why are you battling me and Elijah WHEN YOUR SELF APPOINTED 13TH apostle Saul, said COL 2 V 16

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day

why Not MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS as suggested by your apostle #13 SAUL who renamed himself paul
back off bronco YOU ARE overstepping your mark

i have repeatedly told you, i do keep the gospel SABBATH REST as required
so
back off bronco YOU ARE overstepping your mark

[ImAHebrew]

You have little to no understanding of what the Apostle Paul wrote Lucy.

Jesus said so
let the dead bury the dead.


and why are you battling me and Elijah WHEN YOUR SELF APPOINTED 13TH apostle Saul, said COL 2 V 16



why Not MIND YOUR OWN BUSINESS as suggested by your apostle #13 SAUL who renamed himself paul
back off bronco YOU ARE overstepping your mark

Lucy, if you really had the Spirit of Messiah indwelling you, you would understand what Paul wrote a little better. Please read my signature line to have a better understanding of Col 2:16-17. Ken

[LucySmith]

KENNY B - you have found your god.... MOSES and the OT

back off BRONCO~~~


i understand perfectly~Acts is quite clear on the matter. Matthias was called to fill the vacancy left by Judas,
There is NO way Saul ever became an apostle -onLy in his own self promoted eyes
12 was the #12 it stayed

acts 1 12 - 26 = a huge discourse so we all can undertand the process of choosing aN apostle and the criteria that must be met
ACT DISAGREES WITH YOU

Please take your views of the sabbath with you = Armstrongism doesn't suit me

also a good clue laddy
UNTIL YOU AND SPYING RECONCILE with your whole family members strife and battle will always pursue you - AS YOU AND SPYiNG have a record of personal argo towards your relations - showing WHO controls the inner man

[ImAHebrew]

Your MO!

back off BRONCO~~~


i understand perfectly~Acts is quite clear on the matter. Matthias was called to fill the vacancy left by Judas,
There is NO way Saul ever became an apostle -onLy in his own self promoted eyes
12 was the #12 it stayed

acts 1 12 - 26 = a huge discourse so we all can undertand the process of choosing aN apostle and the criteria that must be met
ACT DISAGREES WITH YOU

Please take your views of the sabbath with you = Armstrongism doesn't suit me

also a good clue laddy
UNTIL YOU AND SPYING RECONCILE with your whole family members strife and battle will always pursue you - AS YOU AND SPYiNG have a record of personal argo towards your relations - showing WHO controls the inner man

Lucy, your MO is to not address the issue at hand, and then bring up a whole bunch of "peripheral" attacks that have nothing to do with what was addressed. We were speaking about Col 2:16-17 and you start arguing about Paul's apostleship, and my family members? Good one as usual Lucy, but look, Satan was just trying to give Eliyahu an "out" by having you come in on what I posted to him about the lunar sabbath! He's a sly little Devil isn't he? Ken

[LucySmith]

Col 2 v 16

Lucy, your MO is to not address the issue at hand, and then bring up a whole bunch of "peripheral" attacks that have nothing to do with what was addressed. We were speaking about Col 2:16-17 and you start arguing about Paul's apostleship, and my family members? Good one as usual Lucy, but look, Satan was just trying to give Eliyahu an "out" by having you come in on what I posted to him about the lunar sabbath! He's a sly little Devil isn't he? Ken

MIND YOU OWN BUSINESS ken according to your apostle


My DIVINE LIFE IS NOT IN YOUR HANDS Bronco
hmmm
perhaps that is why there are NO records of Jesus personal writing because HE DEALS WITH EACH SAINT ON their UNIQUE BASIS AND MOULDS THEM ACCORDING TO HIS NEEDS

when HE SAID '''FOLLOW ME''' = your teachings were not included

[Eliyah]

Shalom Eliyahu, yes, it is just your opinion, but the Scriptures show something else. Please look at the Scriptures which show the Feast of Unleavened Bread and the Feast of Tabernacles. You will notice that BOTH Feasts start on the 15th day of their perspective months, and each Feast is SEVEN days:

Lev 23:6 And on the fifteenth day of the same month (First Month) [is] the feast of unleavened bread unto Yahweh: seven days ye must eat unleavened bread.

Lev 23:34 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, The fifteenth day of this seventh month [shall be] the feast of tabernacles [for] seven days unto Yahweh.

Then we have stated that with BOTH Feasts, the FIRST day of each Feast is to be a Holy Convocation, and no servile work could be done:

Lev 23:7 In the first day ye shall have an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work therein.

Lev 23:35 On the first day [shall be] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Now, you proclaim that these 15th days of these TWO months, which also is the FIRST day of each Feast, that these FIRST days of the Feasts are ALSO a lunar sabbath day (the 15th day of the month). So according to you and what you teach, then the 22nd days of each month would also become a lunar sabbath. But here is where you have a problem. With the Feast of Unleavened Bread, it states that SEVEN days an offering shall be made by fire, and in the SEVENTH day it is a holy convocation, with no servile work done. Then when you look at the Feast of Tabernacles, it states the same thing about SEVEN days of making an offering by fire, and then on the EIGHTH day, there is an additional day to make an offering by fire, and it is a holy convocation, with no servile work done...do you see your PROBLEM:

Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh seven days: in the seventh day [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: on the eighth day shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: it [is] a solemn assembly; [and] ye shall do no servile work [therein].

So the Scriptures are very CLEAR. The Feast of Unleavened Bread has SEVEN days with an offering made by fire, and the SEVENTH day is an Holy Convocation, with no servile work done. The Feast of Tabernacles has SEVEN days with an offering made by fire, but instead of the Holy Convocation occurring on the SEVENTH day, there is an ADDITIONAL day ADDED which has another offering made by fire, and this additional day is called the EIGHTH day, not the SEVENTH day, and it has a Holy Convocation, with no servile work done. Do you see this Eliyahu? The SEVENTH day spoken of in the Feast of Unleavened Bread, is the 21st day of the month, and the EIGHTH day spoken of in the Feast of Tabernacles, is the 22nd day of the month. This very clearly DESTROYS your lunar sabbath teaching. Now, I know you will try to wrest these very clear Scriptures to mean something that becomes YOUR opinion, but YOUR opinion is NOT the proper interpretation of what the Scriptures are saying. The Scriptures are clearly saying that the SEVENTH day of Unleavened Bread is a Sabbath, and it falls on the 21st day of the 1st month, not the 22nd day. Then with the EIGHTH day, which follows the SEVEN days of the Feast of Tabernacles, you have this EIGHTH day falling on the 22nd day of the 7th month, not the 21st day as Unleavened Bread falls. So Eliyahu, you need to take everything you teach about the lunar sabbath and throw it in the waste basket, and then we can start to join with each other instead of battling each other. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

Well Ken,

We have been through all of this before, and you and Spying need to repent and stop following the church of Rome and its fabricated Jesuit calendar.

[ImAHebrew]

The Body of Messiah is to "mind YOUR business!"

MIND YOU OWN BUSINESS ken according to your apostle


My DIVINE LIFE IS NOT IN YOUR HANDS Bronco
hmmm
perhaps that is why there are NO records of Jesus personal writing because HE DEALS WITH EACH SAINT ON their UNIQUE BASIS AND MOULDS THEM ACCORDING TO HIS NEEDS

when HE SAID '''FOLLOW ME''' = your teachings were not included

Lucy, the Apostle Paul says in Col 2:16-17 that it is the Body of Messiah that is to "mind YOUR business" in the keeping of the Sabbath, the Holy Days, and New Moon, and not any individual. You have misunderstood him to be saying something that he is not saying, my little Jillaroo. Ken

[ImAHebrew]

Yes we have, but not with comparing Lev 23:8 to Lev 23:36.

Well Ken,

We have been through all of this before, and you and Spying need to repent and stop following the church of Rome and its fabricated Jesuit calendar.

Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, to be sure, we have discussed this adnauseam. Your bottom line belief is that Lev 23:8 is speaking of the Seventh day of the WEEK, not the Seventh day of the FEAST:

Eliyahu's CLAIM:

Moses is speaking about the seventh day of the week, and not the seventh day of unleavened bread.

And what I have just recently posted with comparing Lev 23:8 to Lev 23:36 is NEW to our discussion, this has not addressed with you. These TWO verses when compared, show convincingly that Moses was speaking about the Seventh day of Unleavened Bread, and NOT the Seventh day of the week. Your belief in a lunar sabbath is completely destroyed IF Moses is speaking about the Seventh day of the Feast, instead of the Seventh day of the week. Lev 23:8 speaks of making an offering by fire for SEVEN days during the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and in the Seventh Day (of the Feast) is an holy convocation, NOT the Seventh day of the week as you interject:

Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh seven days: in the seventh day (of the Feast-21st day of the month) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Then, with Lev 23:36 we have very similar wording about making an offering by fire for SEVEN days during the Feast of Tabernacles, and in/on the Eighth day (of the Feast-22nd day of the month) is an holy convocation, NOT the Eighth day of the week like you try to do with the Seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread:

Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: on the eighth day (of the Feast-22nd day of the month) shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: it [is] a solemn assembly; [and] ye shall do no servile work [therein].

What I am presenting to you here Eliyahu are BRAND new arguments to expose your error concerning "Moses is speaking about the seventh day of the week, and not the seventh day of unleavened bread." You see Eliyahu, IF Moses is speaking about the seventh day of the week in Lev 23:8, would he not also be speaking about the day of the week in Lev 23:36? Please own up to it, is Moses speaking about the eighth day of the week and NOT the eighth day of the feast in Lev 23:36? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

[LucySmith]

Who Killed Jesus? Did I? Did You?

Shalom Everyone, there are some who believe that Yeshua was the one who sacrificed Himself, and the assembly of the wicked had nothing to do with it. Here are a few Scriptures to consider when trying to find the Truth concerning this:

Psa 17:9 From the wicked that oppress me, [from] my deadly enemies, [who] compass me about.

Psa 22:16 For dogs have compassed me: the assembly of the wicked have inclosed me: they pierced my hands and my feet.

Psa 22:18 They part my garments among them, and cast lots upon my vesture.

Mt 27:35 And they crucified him, and parted his garments, casting lots: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophet, They parted my garments among them, and upon my vesture did they cast lots.

Zech 12:10 And I will pour upon the house of David, and upon the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the spirit of grace and of supplications: and they shall look upon me whom they have pierced, and they shall mourn for him, as one mourneth for [his] only [son], and shall be in bitterness for him, as one that is in bitterness for [his] firstborn.

Jn 19:37 And again another scripture saith, They shall look on him whom they pierced.

Rev 1:7 Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

Yeshua also predicted that He would be condemned to death and handed over to the Gentiles to be crucified:

Mt 20:18 - 20:19

18 Behold, we go up to Jerusalem; and the Son of man shall be betrayed unto the chief priests and unto the scribes, and they shall condemn him to death,
19 And shall deliver him to the Gentiles to mock, and to scourge, and to crucify [him]: and the third day he shall rise again.

It is very evident that Yeshua did not pierce, slay, or kill Himself, but that He WILLINGLY submitted Himself to be OUR Sacrifice, and WE all did all slay/pierce Him, by the hands of wicked men. The Law did not require that the Sacrifice kill or slay itself, but that the SINNER is the one who would do that:

Lev 4:27 - 4:29

27 And if any one of the common people sin through ignorance, while he doeth [somewhat against] any of the commandments of Yahweh [concerning things] which ought not to be done, and be guilty;
28 Or if his sin, which he hath sinned, come to his knowledge: then he shall bring his offering, a kid of the goats, a female without blemish, for his sin which he hath sinned.
29 And he shall lay his hand upon the head of the sin offering, and slay the sin offering in the place of the burnt offering.

When it comes to the KNOWLEDGE of sinners that they through ignorance (Acts 3:17) did kill or slay Yeshua, that slaying or sacrificing of Him by us fulfills what Lev 4:27-29 demands. Lev 4:27-29 did not demand that the offering slay or sacrifice itself, and those who teach this are in great error. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

===================================================================

It's an increasing use of phrases such as "I killed Jesus," "We all killed Jesus," "I drove the nails in His hands," and other renditions of the idea.
Ken has jumped on this religious bandwagon
is KEN IN ERROR = that we all killed Jesus by our sins~~~~

The resurgence of the idea may have begun with two Christian singers who popularized a song entitled, "I Killed Jesus."
The late Joshua Ragsdale and also (separately) Aaron Benward have sung it.
In the "I Killed Jesus" song the writer laments his own sin (that's good!) but he infers that it was his own sin specifically (and everyone's collectively) which put Jesus to death on the Cross.
To speak that way is to tweak what the Bible actually teaches.
To a Biblically untrained ear, it may sound noble, clever and humble to say, "I Killed Jesus."

"My sin put Him on the Cross."
Really?
What Bible verse or passage supports that?
He Himself bore our sins in His body on the tree” (1 Peter 2:24) and "by His stripes we are healed."
"The Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all" ( Isa 53:6).
Jesus "took upon Himself" the sins of the world
There is no cooperation on your part was involved, except after the fact, that you should accept His sacrifice, accept His work of atonement and love Him.
The Father "laid" the sins of the world on Jesus.
We never see a passage of Scripture saying that we laid our sins on Jesus at the Cross or that we had any part in giving Jesus our sins at the Cross.
The "taking" and "laying" was all of The Father God.

Ken has taken a new tact = to call ME A LIAR [ a few times] AND A False teacher ''TELLER''
He does this because he has been '''groomed by evil teachers ''
=Underneath the layers of all the great teachings of the Christ, lurks a magma of fear, flowing through the teachers/preachers and congregations that tends to undo much of what Yeshua taught.
This fear limits the present expression of the all powerful living Christ manifestation in the lives of those who believe today.
The doctrines and traditions rooted in fear, along with not being able to rightly divide the words of truth, add to the inability for the Believer to grow up in Him in all things.[/b]

Ken cannot grow, he is stagnant, because he throw out the '''FEAR BOMB''' in most of his posts.
Beware of fear mongering and their preachers!

[Eliyah]

Shabbat Shalom Eliyahu, to be sure, we have discussed this adnauseam. Your bottom line belief is that Lev 23:8 is speaking of the Seventh day of the WEEK, not the Seventh day of the FEAST:

Eliyahu's CLAIM:
And what I have just recently posted with comparing Lev 23:8 to Lev 23:36 is NEW to our discussion, this has not addressed with you. These TWO verses when compared, show convincingly that Moses was speaking about the Seventh day of Unleavened Bread, and NOT the Seventh day of the week. Your belief in a lunar sabbath is completely destroyed IF Moses is speaking about the Seventh day of the Feast, instead of the Seventh day of the week. Lev 23:8 speaks of making an offering by fire for SEVEN days during the Feast of Unleavened Bread, and in the Seventh Day (of the Feast) is an holy convocation, NOT the Seventh day of the week as you interject:



Then, with Lev 23:36 we have very similar wording about making an offering by fire for Lev 23:8 But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh seven days: in the seventh day (of the Feast-21st day of the month) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].SEVEN days during the Feast of Tabernacles, and in/on the Eighth day (of the Feast-22nd day of the month) is an holy convocation, NOT the Eighth day of the week like you try to do with the Seventh day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread:

Lev 23:36 Seven days ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: on the eighth day (of the Feast-22nd day of the month) shall be an holy convocation unto you; and ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh: it [is] a solemn assembly; [and] ye shall do no servile work [therein].

What I am presenting to you here Eliyahu are BRAND new arguments to expose your error concerning "Moses is speaking about the seventh day of the week, and not the seventh day of unleavened bread." You see Eliyahu, IF Moses is speaking about the seventh day of the week in Lev 23:8, would he not also be speaking about the day of the week in Lev 23:36? Please own up to it, is Moses speaking about the eighth day of the week and NOT the eighth day of the feast in Lev 23:36? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

Well Ken, it's not a brand new argument for me, and the term eighth day is an acronym for "the seventh day Sabbath" please notice the calendar below with the scripture, because from the BEGINNING of the Sabbath on the 15th day to the END of the NEXT Sabbath on the 22nd day, is exactly the term "eighth day= 8 days".

Looks like this below with the Sabbaths in red:

15th=1st 16th=2nd 17th=3rd 18th=4th 19th=5th 20th=6th 21st=7th 22nd=8th= eighth day

Lev 23:8: But ye shall offer an offering made by fire unto Yahweh seven days(15th-21st): in the seventh day (of the week=22nd=8th day) [is] an holy convocation: ye shall do no servile work [therein].

Thanks for proving my point.

[Eliyah]

And Ken,

How about you telling us, from which day of the month did the Israelites determine the count to the 15th day of the month, and WHY does the 14th day Passover fall or occur on the 14th day 2 years in a row Numbers 9:1-5 ??

[ImAHebrew]

It's pretty simple.

And Ken,

How about you telling us, from which day of the month did the Israelites determine the count to the 15th day of the month, and WHY does the 14th day Passover fall or occur on the 14th day 2 years in a row Numbers 9:1-5 ??

Shalom Eliyahu, it's pretty simple. The day of the month that the Israelites determined the count to for the 15th day of the month was the FIRST day of the month, the day in which the Crescent Moon was first seen to establish the Month. That New Moon day was day 1 of the month and then you would count until you reached the 15th day of the month. Like I said, pretty simple. And WHY does the 14th day Passover fall on the 14th day 2 years in a row? That's pretty simple also. The Passover always falls on the 14th day of the FIRST month EVERY year. So not only was it 2 years in a row, it is now approximately 3375 years in a row that the Passover falls on the 14th day of the 1st month. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

[Eliyah]

Shalom Eliyahu, it's pretty simple. The day of the month that the Israelites determined the count to for the 15th day of the month was the FIRST day of the month, the day in which the Crescent Moon was first seen to establish the Month. That New Moon day was day 1 of the month and then you would count until you reached the 15th day of the month. Like I said, pretty simple. And WHY does the 14th day Passover fall on the 14th day 2 years in a row? That's pretty simple also. The Passover always falls on the 14th day of the FIRST month EVERY year. So not only was it 2 years in a row, it is now approximately 3375 years in a row that the Passover falls on the 14th day of the 1st month. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

And Ken,

From which day would the seventh day Sabbath be determined, because on the Roman calendar week, it's impossible for the 14th day to fall on the same day 2 years in a row?

[Eliyah]

And Ken,

From which day would the seventh day Sabbath be determined, because on the Roman calendar week, it's impossible for the 14th day to fall on the same day 2 years in a row?

Also Ken,

If you go here: https://www.timeanddate.com/calendar/?country=22

You will notice the Roman month of March, there are 5 weeks in their month, and I did not know that 5 X 7=31 did you, I thought 5 X 7=35 not 31.