Did Yeshua Slay or Kill Himself?

[Eliyah]

Elijah: I surely feel sorry for this woman's husband to have to live with an abusive woman.

Peach,

This is one of Lucy's MOs, when she is given the truth of scriptures, then she will do the very thing that she accuses of us of doing, and then she plays the victim.

[LucySmith]

stephen was appointed a deacon

Shephen was never an Evangelist but a table helper
stephen was never an evangelist but an appointed Helper

Dr. Vincent Taylor
With regard to the condition of the Bible we presently use:
The surviving Greek texts of the book of Acts are so radically different from each other, that it has been suggested that perhaps there were multiple versions written.
to the mentally HANDICAPPED = that word multiple means more than 1

In his book The Text of the New Testament, Dr. Vincent Taylor writes that
"The manuscripts of the New Testament preserve traces of two kinds of dogmatic alterations:
* those which involve the elimination or alteration of what was regarded as doctrinally unacceptable or inconvenient,
and
* those which introduce into the Scriptures proof for a favorite theological tenet or practice".

To put Dr. Taylor's words in perspective:
What Dr. Taylor is stating is that, whatever doctrine Jesus taught which the Church of the Roman Empire did not agree with, there is overwhelming evidence that the church corrupters removed what was objectionable from their perspective.
In like manner, whatever doctrines the Church regarded as being true, regardless of whether that belief was supported in the scriptures, the Church inserted this belief into the Bible in an attempt to make it authentic

it would seem Luke desired to '''introduce Saul'' into his text, and this ''once upon a time, there was a man called Stephen'' seemed a good idea to allow Saul to enter in [stage right]
boo~ hiss~ boo as ''the baddy becomes the goody '' [movies are made like it every day.] and Saul gets a leg hold in and the world follows his ''my gospel'' just as Rome wanted.

[Eliyah]

Shephen was never an Evangelist but a table helper

Dr. Vincent Taylor
With regard to the condition of the Bible we presently use:
The surviving Greek texts of the book of Acts are so radically different from each other, that it has been suggested that perhaps there were multiple versions written.
In his book The Text of the New Testament, Dr. Vincent Taylor writes that
"The manuscripts of the New Testament preserve traces of two kinds of dogmatic alterations:
* those which involve the elimination or alteration of what was regarded as doctrinally unacceptable or inconvenient,
and
* those which introduce into the Scriptures proof for a favorite theological tenet or practice".

To put Dr. Taylor's words in perspective:
What Dr. Taylor is stating is that, whatever doctrine Jesus taught which the Church of the Roman Empire did not agree with, there is overwhelming evidence that the church corrupters removed what was objectionable from their perspective.
In like manner, whatever doctrines the Church regarded as being true, regardless of whether that belief was supported in the scriptures, the Church inserted this belief into the Bible in an attempt to make it authentic

it would seem Luke desired to '''introduce Saul'' into his text, and this ''once upon a time, there was a man called Stephen'' seemed a good idea to allow Saul to enter in [stage right]
boo~ hiss~ boo as ''the baddy becomes the goody '' [movies are made like it every day.] and Saul gets a leg hold in and the world follows his ''my gospel'' just as Rome wanted.

Lucy, sounds like he is full of hot air.

Wherefore, brethren, look ye out among you seven men of honest report, full of the Holy Ghost and wisdom, whom we may appoint over this business.

look ye out among you seven men of honest report

And the saying pleased the whole multitude: and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch: Acts 6:3-5.

And the next day we that were of Paul's company departed, and came unto Caesarea: and we entered into the house of Philip the evangelist, which was one of the seven; and abode with him. Acts 21:8.

These are the 7 :and they chose Stephen, a man full of faith and of the Holy Ghost, and Philip, and Prochorus, and Nicanor, and Timon, and Parmenas, and Nicolas a proselyte of Antioch:

Stephen was one of the seven, and he was an evangelist chosen with the other 6.

[LucySmith]

stephen was never an evangelist but an appointed Helper

Shephen was never an Evangelist but a table helper
stephen was never an evangelist but an appointed Helper

Dr. Vincent Taylor
With regard to the condition of the Bible we presently use:
The surviving Greek texts of the book of Acts are so radically different from each other, that it has been suggested that perhaps there were multiple versions written.
to the mentally HANDICAPPED = that word multiple means more than 1

In his book The Text of the New Testament, Dr. Vincent Taylor writes that
"The manuscripts of the New Testament preserve traces of two kinds of dogmatic alterations:
* those which involve the elimination or alteration of what was regarded as doctrinally unacceptable or inconvenient,
and
* those which introduce into the Scriptures proof for a favorite theological tenet or practice".

To put Dr. Taylor's words in perspective:
What Dr. Taylor is stating is that, whatever doctrine Jesus taught which the Church of the Roman Empire did not agree with, there is overwhelming evidence that the church corrupters removed what was objectionable from their perspective.
In like manner, whatever doctrines the Church regarded as being true, regardless of whether that belief was supported in the scriptures, the Church inserted this belief into the Bible in an attempt to make it authentic

it would seem Luke desired to '''introduce Saul'' into his text, and this ''once upon a time, there was a man called Stephen'' seemed a good idea to allow Saul to enter in [stage right]
boo~ hiss~ boo as ''the baddy becomes the goody '' [movies are made like it every day.] and Saul gets a leg hold in and the world follows his ''my gospel'' just as Rome wanted.

---------------------------------------



They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

It would seem Luke desired to '''introduce Saul'' into his text, and this ''once upon a time, there was a man called Stephen'' seemed a good idea to allow Saul to enter in [stage right]
boo~ hiss~ boo as ''the baddy becomes the goody '' [movies are made like it every day.] and Saul gets a leg hold in and the world follows his ''my gospel'' just as Rome wanted.

[Eliyah]

---------------------------------------



They write down not what they find but what they think is the meaning; and while they attempt to rectify the errors of others, they merely expose their own" (Jerome, Epist. lxxi.5).

It would seem Luke desired to '''introduce Saul'' into his text, and this ''once upon a time, there was a man called Stephen'' seemed a good idea to allow Saul to enter in [stage right]
boo~ hiss~ boo as ''the baddy becomes the goody '' [movies are made like it every day.] and Saul gets a leg hold in and the world follows his ''my gospel'' just as Rome wanted.

Lucy,

I only gave the written scriptures itself, and all you can give is other men's ideas, which is not wise.

[LucySmith]

those who desire the truth over error

who desire truth over error will want to know when the problem of scriptural alteration began?


Under the title Versions of the Scriptures, The New Unger's Bible Dictionary states that:
"Jerome had not been long in Rome (A.D. 383) when Damasus asked him to make a revision of the current Latin version of the New Testament with the help of the Greek original.

'There were,' he says, 'almost as many forms of text as copies.'
The gospels had naturally suffered most.
Jerome therefore applied himself to these first.
But his aim was to revise the Old Latin and not to make a new version.
Yet, although he had this limited objective, the various forms of corruption that had been introduced were, as he describes them, so numerous that the difference of the old and revised (Hieronymian) text is clear and striking throughout.
Some of the changes Jerome introduced were made purely on linguistic grounds, but it is impossible to ascertain on what principle he proceeded in this respect.
Others involved questions of interpretation.
But the greater number consisted in the removal of the interpolations by which especially the synoptic gospels were disfigured".

INTERPOLATIONS -to alter or corrupt (something, such as a text) by inserting new or foreign matter.


lets PRETEND IT IS PURE
~~~Origen he was commissioned by the church to answer the allegations of Celsus that were written in the second century -- is an acknowledgement that there: "are some who corrupt the Gospel histories, and who introduce heresies opposed to the meaning of the doctrine of Jesus".

THOSE PEOPLE WHO HAVE TO PRETEND THE BIBLE IS THE PURE WORD dont know Jesus their Saviour..
FOR JESUS IS THE WORD.
and His people HEAR HIS VOICE AS HE TEACHES THEM, HIS TRUTH,
yes, He does anoint His holy expounds with His revelation
yet
HIS TRUTH is not necessarily all within the bible and this unholy work has become an idol to the dying pews.


for the true believer- they were asked to follow Jesus Hear His voice and then Follow His instruction.
JESUS NEVER READ THE N.T.
That’s why there is no Bible in The Bible.
JESUS NEVER SAID READ THE BIBLE but to follow HIM as we hear His voice

[LucySmith]

Jesus voice

Jesus ON HIS SABBATH
John 11 v 28 29 30
if one possesses the Divine Knowledge to understand the true spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, and labors on the Sabbath, he is blessed.

-- but,

if one does not possess the Divine Knowledge of the Sabbath, and labors on the Sabbath, they are cursed and have made themselves a transgressor of the law.
hello Spying Ken Elijah=transgressors

In view of the fact that Christians today have no understanding at all with regard to the true spiritual meaning of the Sabbath, from the perspective of what Jesus taught, JOHN 11 V 28 29 30 they would be deemed to be transgressors of the Law
-- a Law that they fail to even realize they are under. so they die IN sin.

[Spying]

The Flood That Covers The Truth!

Hi Everyone,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

I would like to draw attention to the posts of ImAHebrew and myself on the first page of this thread and also to the post of ImAHebrew near the beginning of page two of this thread. I have found it to be a pattern that whenever substantial posts are made by us that HaSatan quickly inspires that a flood of words arise to quickly bury those posts under several pages of arguments which actually do not take anything away from our arguments nor do they add anything to them.

Should you have ears to hear, then pay attention to this pattern.

Thanking any in advance that do hear, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

[Spying]

The Authority Of The Scriptures!

Hi Lucy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

It is also your pattern of behavior to often change you signature line. Here is your latest:

"Christian doctrine rests upon the premise that God preserved the Bible in an absolute infallible and pure state.
They reason that God would not allow the written word of the scriptures to be corrupted.
Christians ignore massive evidence that demonstrates conclusively that our Bible has been severely altered and edited
Regardless of how much evidence is shown to the majority OF Christians will refuse to acknowledge that scriptures were severely altered by the Church of Rome -."

There is not doubt in my mind that the Jews did alter the written word of the Old Testament Scrolls in an attempt to discredit the claims of Christians concerning Messiah Yahushua. The Jews could change the Hebrew language under their control, but they had no capacity to change all of the LXX copies which did then exist at the time of Messiah in the Diaspora. This is the primary reason why I feel that the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures is more reliable than the original Hebrew.

I fully recognize that the Church of Rome did establish the New Testament Canon. We have no way of knowing how many writings were rejected because they contained material which disagreed with the teachings of the Church of Rome. The Epistle of Barnabas is a prime example.

I do not however take the position of Lucy that spurious writings were added to books of the approved New Testament. Lucy often makes this claim because many of her teachings are proven false by the writings that have been preserved by the Church of Rome.

It is also rather clear to me that the English translation of the Scriptures, that is, the KJV, is corrupted because of doctrine that existed at the time is was created. The most glaring example of that corruption is the substitution of the word, Easter, for the Passover in Acts 12:4. I have given many other examples of corruption to EliYah which he has rejected based upon his belief that the OKJV is authoritative.

While the Church of Rome readily admits that they changed the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday, there is no evidence that the command to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy has been changed as antinomian teachers like Lucy always suggest. I hope to address this issue in my next post to you.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

[LucySmith]

actually Spying you are wrong

Because none of us were a eye witness to anything to do with the writing of the whole bible

None of us were there nor witnesses any form of their experiences nor do we have any evidences from a personal witness to this whole story and its characters

We can sit back and condemn the Koran but a billion people believe in this book too.

Each group are socially engineered to believe a work that no one eye witnessed its dramas for themselves .


THE FRUITS
But out from these 2 books comes horror for us all from their beginnings
In killings of MURDER TORTURES wars and chaos to families.

If the devil wrote these books he couldnt have done a better job, destroying billions of humans and disturbing nations

what is the matter with these 2 works?
they are subjected to too many variances of interpretations

interpretation
the action of explaining the meaning of something.
"the interpretation of data
synonyms: explanation, elucidation, expounding, exposition, explication, exegesis, clarification, definition;
simplification
"the interpretation and application of the Bible's teaching"
•analysis, reading, evaluation, review, study, examination, diagnosis;
decoding, deciphering
synonyms: meaning, understanding, construal, connotation, reading, explanation, inference, conclusion, supposition

example
Spying you have deciphered this book in your way and destroyed your family
I have deciphered this book in a very different way and blessed my family.

[Eliyah]

Hi Lucy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

It is also your pattern of behavior to often change you signature line. Here is your latest:

"Christian doctrine rests upon the premise that God preserved the Bible in an absolute infallible and pure state.
They reason that God would not allow the written word of the scriptures to be corrupted.
Christians ignore massive evidence that demonstrates conclusively that our Bible has been severely altered and edited
Regardless of how much evidence is shown to the majority OF Christians will refuse to acknowledge that scriptures were severely altered by the Church of Rome -."

There is not doubt in my mind that the Jews did alter the written word of the Old Testament Scrolls in an attempt to discredit the claims of Christians concerning Messiah Yahushua. The Jews could change the Hebrew language under their control, but they had no capacity to change all of the LXX copies which did then exist at the time of Messiah in the Diaspora. This is the primary reason why I feel that the Greek translation of the Hebrew Scriptures is more reliable than the original Hebrew.

I fully recognize that the Church of Rome did establish the New Testament Canon. We have no way of knowing how many writings were rejected because they contained material which disagreed with the teachings of the Church of Rome. The Epistle of Barnabas is a prime example.

I do not however take the position of Lucy that spurious writings were added to books of the approved New Testament. Lucy often makes this claim because many of her teachings are proven false by the writings that have been preserved by the Church of Rome.

It is also rather clear to me that the English translation of the Scriptures, that is, the KJV, is corrupted because of doctrine that existed at the time is was created. The most glaring example of that corruption is the substitution of the word, Easter, for the Passover in Acts 12:4. I have given many other examples of corruption to EliYah which he has rejected based upon his belief that the OKJV is authoritative.

While the Church of Rome readily admits that they changed the Sabbath Day from Saturday to Sunday, there is no evidence that the command to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy has been changed as antinomian teachers like Lucy always suggest. I hope to address this issue in my next post to you.

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Spying, I do not deny that the English word "easter" is a mistranslation in Acts 12:4, which should be the word "Passover",and old buddy, the Church of Rome did NOT admit that they changed Saturday to Sunday, they have admitted that they not only changed the week, but that they also changed the Sabbath to their week and Sunday.

Also, the Church of Rome had no authority over the OKJV, and I will give the resources below that will prove this.

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet1/kjv1.html

Eric Jon Phelps - Preservation of the Bible (A) - 02/13/17

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iE7FwFOjE3s

Eric Jon Phelps - Translators of KJV 1611 Bible (B) - 12/16/16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4Cv-hyBhiY

213B - Battle of the Bibles / Total Onslaught - Walter Veith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tNv-zzpIwBs

214 - Changing the Word / Total Onslaught - Walter Veith

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RqBEuxGY7DI

[Eliyah]

The Dedication of the 1611 KJV.

Then not to suffer this to fall to the ground, but rather to take it up, and to continue it in that state, wherein the famous Predecessor of Your Highness did leave it: nay, to go forward with the confidence and resolution of a Man in maintaining the truth of Christ, and propagating it far and near, is that which hath so bound and firmly knit the hearts of all Your Majesty's loyal and religious people unto You, that Your very name is precious among them: their eye doth behold You with comfort, and they bless You in their hearts, as that sanctified Person, who, under God, is the immediate Author of their true happiness. And this their contentment doth not diminish or decay, but every day increaseth and taketh strength, when they observe, that the zeal of Your Majesty toward the house of God doth not slack or go backward, but is more and more kindled, manifesting itself abroad in the farthest parts of Christendom, by writing in defence of the Truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that Man of Sin, as will not be healed,) and every day at home, by religious and learned discourse, by frequenting the house of God, by hearing the Word preached, by cherishing the Teachers thereof, by caring for the Church, as a most tender and loving nursing Father.

http://www.angelfire.com/la2/prophet...edicatory.html

by writing in defence of the Truth, (which hath given such a blow unto that Man of Sin, as will not be healed,)

This in underlined bold black above is in reference to the Pope of Rome at the time, which they spoke against.

[Spying]

Fulfillment Of The Law Is Both Physical And Spiritual!

Hi Lucy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You posed this challenge to me concerning the fulfillment of the Law in your post #9 on page one of this thread:

"dear Spying= you need a very different mindset

The LAW gives LIFE To Those Who Keep It! (Lucy is quoting my words from my post #6 on page one of this thread)

your belief Spying
but you don't keep it!!!!
613 laws must be kept as a WHOLE UNIT....
To begin with, you divorced your wife on a trumped up charge issued out from YOUR ''hardened heart''"

You know full well, Lucy, that I have consistently taught that the Law can be fulfilled in primarily two ways:

• By physical works.
• And by faith in the belief of Messiah Yahushua.

We both believe that Messiah Yahushua by virtue of HIS endless LIFE became our High Priest after the Order of Melchizedic. This change (μετάθεσις G3331) in the Priesthood indicates that a change did occur in the Law. Please notice, Lucy, that this metathesis of the Law does not end the Law as you yourself do regularly teach occurred in 70 AD; rather, the fulfillment of the Law only changes its location from the physical Temple in Jerusalem to the spiritual Holy of Holies in the Heavens.

Now, I am not by this statement telling you the location of this spiritual Temple, but I do desire that you admit to me and ImAHebrew that the fulfillment of the Law did not end in 70 AD; otherwise, why would the resurrected Messiah Yahushua feel compelled to enter the spiritual Holy of Holies with HIS own spiritual blood in the spiritual fulfillment of the Law?

I hope you understand the validity of this reasoning and argument concerning the fulfillment of the Law!

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

[Spying]

Family!

Hi Lucy,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

You also are well aware that I have consistently taught over the years that the Law is my Paidagogos unto Messiah Yahushua. The Law did deliver me to Messiah Yahushua despite all my kicking and screaming. As Yahushua did say:

John 12:31-33
31 Now is the judgment of this world: now shall the prince of this world be cast out.
32 And I, if I be lifted up from the earth, will draw all men unto me.
33 This he said, signifying what death he should die.

I myself was drawn to the Cross of Messiah Yahushua through the inner workings of the Law; therefore, I am also a witness to HIS crucifixion and death. I was there, and so were you. The difference between you and me is simply that you have absolutely no recognition that you indeed were there. You have no understanding that you yourself, Lucy, the Sinner, were united with Messiah Yahushua in HIS death; therefore, it is impossible for you to claim the lawful righteousness which is your right and responsibility under the Law, and it is impossible for you to remove all sin from your life whereby you might receive the right to LIFE.

The Apostle Paul did say it best right here:

Romans 6:6-11
6 Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him, that the body of sin might be destroyed, that henceforth we should not serve sin.
7 For he that is dead is freed from sin.
8 Now if we be dead with Messiah, we believe that we shall also live with him:
9 Knowing that Messiah being raised from the dead dieth no more; death hath no more dominion over him.
10 For in that he died, he died unto sin once: but in that he liveth, he liveth unto ELOHIM.
11 Likewise reckon ye also yourselves to be dead indeed unto sin, but alive unto ELOHIM through Yahushua Messiah our YAHWEH.

Lucy, it is very clear to me that should you ever seek to remember the Sabbath Day to keep it holy and begin to insist that your businesses be closed on the Sabbath Day, that rebellion and warfare would break out in your family. Your family would become an enemy to you. Do you need me to quote the words of Yahushua right here about family?

Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

[LucySmith]

i do remember the sabbath day Spying

PERFECTLY

AS I HAVE REPEATEDLY TOLD YOU============= REPEATEDLY REPEATEDLY add nausuem i keep the sabbath
btw
According to your apostle paul no man can judge who does what including the ''keeping of the sabbath''
have you not seen this dear Spying.

Therefore do not let anyone judge you by what you eat or drink, or with regard to a religious festival, a New Moon celebration or a Sabbath day.

col 2 v 16

ALSO I REBUKE YOUR IGNORANCE in Jesus name
HOW DARE YOU BESMIRCH THE WONDERFUL HOLY WAY I RECEIVED the christ empowerments of '''''LIFE NOW''''''
= HOW DARE YOU BELITTLE SOMETHING SO HOLY, ETERNAL AND WONDERFUL of a visitation and invitation into His presence FOREVERMORE in the power of the resurrection of life and to enter into His priesthood and order of Melchedezek
dont you ever speak to me like that again, with such foul lips that blather without true understanding of anything remotely holy

Spying
you are a self admitted failure in all you do - why do you think you ''got the power of immortal life''.................... correct
because you have not = nor did you personally receive HIS INVITATION into His presence of life.

you may well ''''know''''' of it
but you were never PERSONALLY invited.