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**LucySmith** · 05-08-2018, 07:15 PM

the original post #1

Spying Spying is offline
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Unhappy My Brother Roger!
Hi Everyone,
Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

This morning was the first time that I physically wept over the death of my Brother, Roger. The last time that I saw my Brother alive was on the last day of the Feast of Unleavened Bread. At that celebration, we both engaged in an argument over an issue revolving around his son who lives with me. We both became agitated and upset, and then Roger suddenly took his dedicated wife in hand and left the Assembly with her. That night Roger died in his sleep.

I realize that I have lived a rather parochial and sheltered existence being blessed to live in the United States of America. I personally have not experienced war, nor have I experienced the persecution and hatred that millions have received the world over due to the various forms of racism that endures to this day. Even so, in my limited experience, I know of no individual who did suffer more for his sin than my Brother, Roger. His physical life was completely destroyed by his sin, and what is more, the lives of a number of children were deeply impacted by his sin.

It is no small matter that the Assembly which we all loved was also divided and scattered as a result of sin. Molestation is very difficult to forgive.

When Roger and his wife requested to meet with me and my wife shortly after the molestation became known, Roger asked for our forgiveness. I informed Roger that our forgiveness was conditional upon his acceptance and performance of three conditions. Roger agreed to those conditions, but he never completed them to my satisfaction so for years the issue of forgiveness remained less than complete between the both of us.

Finally due to this commandment, I rendered to my Brother my unconditional and complete forgiveness:

Leviticus 19:17-18
17 Thou shalt not hate thy brother in thine heart: thou shalt in any wise rebuke thy neighbour, and not suffer sin upon him.
18 Thou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am YAHWEH.

I posted the above two verses on my bedroom door so that whenever I entered my inner sanctum, I would be reminded of them.

When my Brother died, did his death pay for his sin?

Thanking anyone in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

**LucySmith** · 05-08-2018, 07:18 PM

as i recall Ken's version of this very sad tale of a law keeping family destroyed

did not fully match up to this version above [post] and i said so.

the REPLY is now missing.................
however it may well RETURN

somehow

**LucySmith** · 05-08-2018, 08:28 PM

you see mods i look at it this way

i view my eternal life as a most awesome wonderful thing that ever happened to me
IT TOOK ME out from all carnal bible reading and all carnal churchianity and into His KINGDOM LIFE.

I consider you as carnal christians and lipservers only with a very tragic life testimony - ie. including lives with divorces, strife, deaths, lesbians ex homosexuals and molesters etc within the family connections
while i do feel great sympathy for such sinners [who cannot fight their demons of lusts] i also KNOW i dont wish to be taught by such people with some ''holy roller ministry''

while i would not dare to judge souls outside ''the church scene'' as they are termed '' the lost'' Yeshua never came to judge but to save.
BUT WHEN PHARISEES alters the good news and mess up people's minds with weird religious O.T. beliefs, given to them by a perverted ministry - i say ''wooo there lets not go down that path''~~~~

When i stand back to view the ''life fruit'' as a testimony
- SO I ASK '' are these holy rollers worth MY '''lying for''?

THE ANSWER IS a resounding ''''''''''''''''no'''''''''''''''''''''
YOU ARE NOT WORTH the trouble a lie will cause me~~~
that is a simple fact
and
because you have not been privileged to learn from Yeshua Himself and how corruption is rife inside the bible and outside in church concepts and preaching the good news correctly- DOES NOT MAKE ME WRONG and you Johnny Jehovah's RIGHT.
thank you very much.~~~~

you 2 men have sat there and watched multi children hurt and nearly destroyed in relationships BY INJUSTICE AND SEEMINGLY ACTS of a convert type cover-up [as recorded in LA archives]
And if this whole mess was now news HEADLINES -i.e.- ''weird religious sect members accused of child molestation''= possible jail terms would be dished out to all offenders and their supporters.

the moderator posted

what is more, the lives of a number of children were deeply impacted by his sin.
It is no small matter that the Assembly which we all loved was also divided and scattered as a result of sin. Molestation is very difficult to forgive.

now you have made up some rule about ''quotes/quoting posts'' that the whole forum system cannot even operate under but you try to impose on a flawed system.

your belief is wrong
your lives are wrong
your system is wrong

3 strikes

ROVIVRUS ROVIVRUS is offline
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Yes, my dad was right.
I do really like your poem.
I commend anyone who remembers to remember the children.
It seems many people often forget that each child will one day be an adult, and we powerfully influence their lives anytime we interact with them.
My dad gave the example of the Church asking the kids questions during the new moon celebrations.
And as one of those children, I must tell you that if it wasn’t for the new moon, their would not have been any focus on us.
And I have to be honest that during the new moons when we were questioned and all answering at once--I felt kind of like a robot.
Anyway, the sermons at church were so often over our heads and we were not interested nor engaged by hardly any of them growing up.
When I say we, I speak for myself and most of my siblings and my closest cousins.
You see, the treatment that the Church as a whole (not including my parents) is giving to those of us who have been abused by X is an extension and a perfect example of how children were regarded in our Church growing up.
I guess what I want to add to what you wrote was that not only should you talk to your children about Yah, you should talk to them about much more than that.
If your conversations are limited to teaching them things that took you yourself 25-30 years to learn than they probably aren’t listening or understanding.
So things should be kept simple.
Also, your poem reminded me of “do as I say, not as I do”.
That pretty much wraps up Uncle X in a phrase.
When I think of my young cousins being gone, away in their “prison” I am reminded of a particular weekend of last year.
On a Friday night X’s children are required to stay home to observe the Sabbath, as we were all required to do.
Well one weekend after observing the Sabbath, X went out to a strip club with his buddy on a Saturday night.
Everyone found out about it, including his kids.
Now I know I have brought this up before, but I mention it for another reason this time.
We can all imagine how much X’s kids are confused about “right” and “wrong”.
They have been told time and time again the “sin” it is to break the Sabbath, or to eat pepperoni.
And they have a father who…….

Anyway, I could go on and on.
You have very good ideas and I think you said you work with children.
I would love to hear more.
Finally I will ask a question to everyone reading that I ask often when I speak about children and when I write about them.
Take a look at your own family, are the children at the back of the line or at the front of the line when food is served to a large number of people?
How does your family regard children?

Peace,
Rovivrus

part of your ''ministry Ken''?

why would i wish to lie for people like that~~~

**LucySmith** · 05-08-2018, 10:16 PM

its here... THE MYSTERY SOLVED THE MISSING POST RE-APPEARED.

ABRACADABRA....

the end of the day Ken
Quote Originally Posted by ImAHebrew View Post
Lucy, this will be my last post to you about what happened with our children and assembly. I sense that you really don't want to understand what happened. I never said my brother's sexual abuse of Spying's two oldest daughters with a vibrator was "minor," it was major, and we were shocked, and we took action. Now, what you fail to recognize is that the accusers were the ones who called Uncle X's sexual abuse with the vibrator, minor. They were the ones trying to tell us at that first meeting that when an abuser confesses to abusing, it is almost always minor abuse that they confess to. I didn't think it was minor, but they did. Why? Because their minds had been poisoned by that EVIL book, "The Courage to Heal," and all the other "repressed memory" nonsense that they were "feeding" upon. You see Lucy, they were convinced that Uncle X's vibrator use on Spying's two oldest daughters was "child's play," in comparison to what he had actually done to them. And as you saw my daughter's unposted post to Rovirus, she plainly shows how Uncle X was the actual VICTIM in their deluded quest to manufacture "horrific" child abuse.

I have a recorded phone conversation between Uncle X and one of Spying's younger daughters, and in it she states that Uncle X had NEVER abused her several times throughout this conversation, and she said that she prayed to God that IF she had been, that He wouldn't let her remember. That speaks volumes about how these girls were being taught about "repressed memory." Now, it just so happens that about 2 months ago she told me that Uncle X had abused her, and I asked her if she remembered the phone conversation with Uncle X. She said she did, and I mentioned to her that in that conversation with him she told him that she had never been abused by him. She told me that she was lying to him then when she told him that. Well, I can assure you, she wasn't lying back then when she was 18, but she was not being truthful with me on that day two months ago. The way I can tell is because the whole purpose of her call to him was to try to get him to go to the authorities and tell them that he had abused his own daughter, and confess about that. She begged and pleaded with him to do this, and Uncle X was very kind and loving in how he dealt with her, and IF she was lying about him NOT abusing her, she would never had brought up about how she prayed to "God" to not let her remember if he had abused her.

So Lucy, Uncle X's confession about what he had done to Spying's two oldest daughters with the vibrator, is what started this witch hunt into "repressed memory," and that confession in MY mind was NOT about something that was MINOR, but to these lunatic "repressed memory" accusers, it was. And I will agree with YOU. This attack against our assembly was aided and fostered by Satan. Now, I am through trying to explain this all to you, as I know you really don't want to nor have any capacity to understand what actually occurred. Some day you will. Ken

==================================================================================================== ==

Your brother ken called me a liar for daring to bring this topic up."

OH you need to stop your lying '''liar'' about how you perceive me daring in my handling of this evil onslaught ''the topic'' against us
Ken

Your brother ken called me a liar for daring to bring this topic up."

THE meanings are the same and there is No lie there at all for my part
however the story line is not the same

spying

I know of no individual who did suffer more for his sin than my Brother, Roger. His physical life was completely destroyed by his sin, and what is more, the lives of a number of children were deeply impacted by his sin.
It is no small matter that the Assembly which we all loved was also divided and scattered as a result of sin. Molestation is very difficult to forgive.

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