"Two Witnesses"

[DeAnna Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close DeAnna]

Shalom AntotiYah, and Spying, and all who read. (smile)
Yah be with you!

Well... I don't "have this down". In fact I am pretty confused about it.
Everytime I "see" something "line up"... it falls apart further down.
So... I thought to "post" > "my thoughts" as I went through the chapter. This is not a "post" trying to show forth what I "know" or have been "shown". This is a "study post". Consider my 'imputs' as "notes to myself". Not me saying "its this". Okay? And I hope others will post their "notes" too!
or revelations if they have any. (smile)

I thought it best to just start at the beginning of the chapter.

Revelation 11:1 And there was given me a reed like unto a rod: and the angel stood, saying, Rise, and measure the temple of YAH, and the altar, and them that worship therein.

I know Yah is big on "measures". When I think of what a "measuring unit" would be spiritually, I think of "test ye the spirits", if the spirit confess that Yahshua the messiah "is come" (present tense, not "has come", not "is going to come" but "IS COME") in the flesh (ie; my flesh, your flesh etc) that spirit is
of Yah, if the spirit confesseth not that Yahshua the messiah "is come" in the flesh that spirit is not of Yah BUT > of the "antichrist".

I think of this as a "measuring" or a "standard" to "judge" by. This to me is "doing" judgment. Of course it does not mean we have any animosity or fear of anyone that does not confess this, it merely means they are an adversary to the faith at the time. The same with the "DBR" being a "measuring tool".
So... what is "measuring the temple of YAH"? And measuring the "Altar", and measuring them that worship?

What comes to my mind is possibly... measuring the "temple" is one measuring "our" heart, being Yahs temple, all of us. or Measuring the "unity"?

Measuring the "alter", I would think prayers. feel pretty sure about that. Has to be the "alter of incense" because in the next verse the "court round about" is left out, therefore it cannot be speaking of the alter of sin sacrafice. Which I beleive to be "repentance". Which is for the gentiles. "foriegner or the stranger".
Measuring "them that worship therein"... measuring the "faith" of one/all ? How much we "believe" in Him?

Revelation 11:2 But the court which is without the temple leave out, and measure it not; for it is given unto the Gentiles: and the holy city shall they tread under foot forty and two months.

In chapter 13. >
Revelation 13:5 And there was given unto him a mouth speaking great things and blasphemies; and power was given unto him to continue forty and two months.

back to chapter 11 >
Revelation 11:3 And I will give power unto my two witnesses, and they shall prophesy a thousand two hundred and threescore days, clothed in sackcloth.

It seems to me that 42 months and 1260 days, are referring to the same time period.
That the two witnesses are given "power", and the holy city being trodden under foot, and the "mouth speaking blasphemies" are happening simultaniously.

I'm thinking the 1260 days are actually 1260 years. "IF", what i'm thinking is correct.
The "ice" manifestation of the "Two witnesses" would be the publishing of the scriptures. both old and new test.'s approx. 1611. We are now at 2001 minus 1611, and the puts us 390 years into it. And gives 870 years to go. This would put us right before we enter into the "7000th." year, which is the "7th. day", when Yah rests from His work. And "unless that time be cut short.....".
The "water" manifestation of the two witnesses, I "think" to be; The Word and "Us" the bride. Or the Word in the bride rather. I say the "Word" because >>

Zechariah 4:2 And said unto me, What seest thou? And I said, I have looked, and behold a candlestick all of gold, with a bowl upon the top of it, and his seven lamps thereon, and seven pipes to the seven lamps, which are upon the top thereof:
:3 And two olive trees by it, one upon the right side of the bowl, and the other upon the left side thereof.
:4 So I answered and spake to the angel that talked with me, saying, What are these, my lord?
5 Then the angel that talked with me answered and said unto me, Knowest thou not what these be? And I said, No, my lord.
:6 Then he answered and spake unto me, saying, This is the WORD of YAH unto Zerubbabel ( # 2216 "sown in babylon"), saying >>>
Not by might, nor by power, but by my spirit, saith YAH of hosts.

Now... This "Word" is "sown in babylon" or "confusion". What word is that?

NOT BY MIGHT, NOR BY POWER, BUT BY MY SPIRIT SAITH YAH.

"Zerubbabel" was also the "leader" of the FIRST group of returning exiles from Babylon.

I say "we" as the bride, and our portion being to "declare the works of Yah"....
Is also one of the "witnesses". I say this because; >

Isaiah 43:10 Ye are my witnesses, saithYAH, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no EL formed, neither shall there be after me.11 I, even I, am YAH; and beside me there is no saviour.
:12 I have declared, and have saved, and I have shewed, when there was no strange god among you: therefore ye are my witnesses, saith YAH, that >>>
>> I am GOD. (Power/Ruler/Judge)

:8 Fear ye not, neither be afraid: have not I told thee from that time, and have declared it? ye are even my witnesses. Is there a God (Power, Ruler, Judge) beside me? yea, there is no God;(power/ruler/judge) I know not any.

Acts 1:8 But ye shall receive power, after that the Holy Ghost is come upon you: and ye shall be witnesses unto me both in Jerusalem, and in all Judaea, and in Samaria, and unto the uttermost part of the earth.

Acts 2:32 This YAHshua (salvation) hath Yah raised up, whereof we all are witnesses.

Acts 5:32 And we are his witnesses of these things; and so is also the Holy Ghost, whom YAH hath given to them that obey him.

(the word "obey" is also "believe" or cause one to believe/ persuade # G3982)

Revelation 11:5 And if any man will hurt them, fire proceedeth out of their mouth, and devoureth their enemies: and if any man will hurt them, he must in this manner be killed.

Not sure about the above, except maybe "fire" is the word from their mouth, which in turn causes them to be "purged" with fire (thus Yahshua saying; lest ye be baptised with water (spirit) and fire; purging) and by this they are "turned" unto repentance; (as
the alter of sin sacrifice is still there for them.) and they are "slain" or their believed authority, and they turn and give all glory to Yah??

However... EliYah actually did have fire come down from heaven by "speaking the word" and burn up 102 men. Or 51 men twice. >

2 Kings 1:10 And Elijah answered and said to the captain of fifty, If I be a man of YAH, then let fire come down from heaven, and consume thee and thy fifty. And there came down fire from heaven, and consumed him and his fifty.

But again, I don't think this to be physical now, but spiritual.
For it seems to me that the "kingdom" truly, truly, truly does come "not come by > observation.... but by "revelation". >> "Lo' the Kingdom is within you".

I don't think it will be due to something on the "outside" of us.

cont.

[DeAnna Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close DeAnna]

It has become apparent in my personal walk with Yah, (and I assume others) that all of His "revealing" is an "inner" awakening/understanding, and it is a "revealing" of > HIMSELF.

For He says "i will reveal myself to whom I will reveal". And no man can know Him accept he whom He reveals himself.

Revelation 11:6 These have power to shut heaven, that it rain not in the days of their prophecy: and have power over waters to turn them to blood and to smite the earth with all plagues, as often as they will.

This really throws me...
Now how would this be in "spirit"?
"Rain" is "knowledge/understanding", now
why would they cause it "not to rain" > in the days of their prophecy? Unless this is when the scriptures were "actually written", and no undertsanding was given yet... and yet they have power to turn waters (doctrines) to blood (death) and smite the earth with plagues. smiting the earth with plagues would be our blindness and trying to "walk up right" on our own, making us lame, etc. Before the "latter rain" so to speak, which by the way we are TOLD to pray/ask for. (smile) This would be true in the carnal written bible itself, and in man.

Revelation 11:7 And when they shall have finished their testimony, the beast that ascendeth out of the bottomless pit shall make war against them, and shall overcome them, and kill them.
Revelation 11:8 And their dead bodies shall lie in the street of the great city, which spiritually is called Sodom (# G4670 "burning") and Egypt (# G125 "double straits") , where also our Master was crucified.
Revelation 11:9 And they of the people and kindreds and tongues and nations shall see their dead bodies three days and an half, and shall not suffer their dead bodies to be put in graves.

"Kill them"... does not necessarily mean a physical body with a physical death.
For Yah told Adam that in the day that he ate "he would surely die". Now we know that adam didn't physically "die", but mentally or "condemnation" came upon him.
Satan is the "Accuser". there is condemnation continously going on in our minds. whether it be toward another or toward ourself. When the carnal scriptures "Finish their testimony" upon us, we know that we are but a worm. And we are convicted in our hearts. In like manner... when one preaches the truth, babtizing "in the Name" or the "Authority of Yah"... "we must die", that we may live.
This condemnation, or the accusation from the beast brings this about.
Which also brings about repentance. Now Messiah was "crucified" in each and everyone of us. And we are in "burning" (Sodom) and "double straits" (Egypt), or bondage. Therefore Messiah is most certainly "crucified" in "sodom and egypt.
And though we walk around as we are alive, we are "dead to the flesh", and the condemnation that dwells therein. For there is only life in YAH.
For we are all as "dead men", save for the spirit of Life that we receive from Yah.
And Yahshua said; "let the dead bury the dead".

Now... in order for all of this to "Truly" line up. The "3 1/2" days, would actually have to be converted to 31/2 years, then converted to 1260 DAYS, to be converted to 1260 "years"... and all of this > Witnesses, Mouth speaking blashemies, the holy citiy being trodded under foot, AND the "death" of the witnesses, and not suffering them to be put in graves... would ALL BE TAKING PLACE simultaniously.

However... "why" and how can we justify turning the "3 1/2 days" into 1260 years?
I'm not sure we can. The only thing that makes me "think" we can is due to....

Yahshua's ministry was "3 1/2 years" to the diciples... and yet... as of 1611, all have been able to partake of that "3 1/2 year ministry through the publishing of the scriptures.

Those who rejoice over the two witnesses being "killed", could actually be those who are not of the faith of YAH rejoice in the condemnation of those who are.

For the written scriptures alone, have no life. They must be accompanied by the spirit of Truth for understanding and life.
Therefore they are as "dead bodies" to all who have not the spirit of understanding. And they (the written scriptures) are in "the streets"... for all have access to them.

So are we as the bride, for we are "dead" to the flesh... but we as the bride, or our testimony, are not put in graves. Or it's not over until the 1260 years are up, which is approaching when Yah "rests from his work". or the 7000th. year, being the 7th. "day". did that make sense?

Revelation 11:10 And they that "dwell upon the earth" shall rejoice over them, and make merry, and shall send gifts one to another; because these two prophets tormented them that dwelt on the earth.

I'm thinking there will come a time that man "takes away the bible from the people". This is already happening in our schools etc. And when this happens, the people that "dwell upon the earth"... or them that only "Live in the flesh", and
not in the spirit, those that haven't received Yahshua (Yahs salvation) shall rejoice, or be "glad" that they are doing this. because they think it's a bunch of brain wash junk anyway. And as far as they are concerned the "bible" Old and
New testiment is "against them". Many young people feel this way. I have many young people in my life due to Kims 16 and 17 year old. My home is always flooded with their friends... and I am often shocked at the "animosity" these kids feel toward the bible. People are relating the "bible" to "religion".

thus the power given to the evil one to speak blasphemies, and the power given to the two witnesses are both "3 1/2" days, or 1260 days which could be years... so it happens simultaniously.

Revelation 11:11 And AFTER three days and an half the Spirit of life from YAH entered into them, and they stood upon their feet; and great fear fell upon them which saw them.

11:12 And they heard a great voice from heaven saying unto them, Come up hither. And they ascended up to heaven in a cloud; and their enemies beheld them.

I "think"... when the 1260 days are up... all those up to that point that are of Yahs bride, shall be resurrected, and the transformation shall take place.

Revelation 11:13 And the same hour was there a great earthquake, and the tenth part of the city fell, and in the earthquake were slain of men seven thousand: and the remnant were affrighted, and gave glory to YAH of heaven.

At the same time this happens, all others will "quake" or their "earth" or their body will quake with fear... and be the last to come home.

Revelation 11:14 The second woe is past; and , behold, the third woe cometh quickly. 15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there were great voices in heaven, saying, The kingdoms of this world are become the kingdoms of Yah, and of his annointed; and he shall reign for ever and ever.

Again, the understanding of what "AHYH ASHR AHYH" and the word "Name"/Shem > means... and what "YHWH" > means... all three showing forth who truly is "maker" of all. All "kingdoms" > become < the "Kingdoms of YAHSHUA (YAHS Salvation), and he shall "reign" forever and ever.

As I said, this is a "study" post. I am very open for "imput". smile. Again, I realize there could actually be "two walking talking witnesses", but I just don't think so. I think it will be something that takes place "within".

maybe togeather Yah will reveal.

Love,
d'

[Scarlet New Member Find all posts View Profile Close Scarlet]

?

Shalom DeAnna,
I am sorry that I don't have any input for you on this matter.
I know little so far, so I just have a Question.

You wrote this:


I know Yah is big on "measures". When I think of what a "measuring unit" would be spiritually, I think of "test ye the spirits", if the spirit confess that Yahshua the messiah "is come" (present tense, not "has come", not "is going to come" but "IS COME") in the flesh (ie; my flesh, your flesh etc) that spirit is
of Yah, if the spirit confesseth not that Yahshua the messiah "is come" in the flesh that spirit is not of Yah BUT > of the "antichrist".


Ok, How does this Work? Should we pray to YHWH and ask this question? I kind of figured that we should test the Spirit against the word of YHWH, but I am not sure.

This would be good to know for me, I am talking to LDS missionaries who continously believe the Spirit that comes to them that tells them the Book of Mormon is true when they pray for an answer. I know however it is not, because it goes almost entirely against the Bible. Unfortuantly the cannot "See" the Bible, and when they read it, they always tell me it goes over thier head. SO they trust the Book of Mormon to Explain it to them.

So I am wondering what could be done to make them better see the Word. This Spirit keeps telling them something false, and and it greatly annoys me. I owe these people alot, it is because of them that I came unto understanding. Ironic eh? I want to let them understand as well, unfortunatly this Spirit they believe over me.

Thanks.

Shalom,
Seaching

[DeAnna Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close DeAnna]

Shalom Scarlet,

Yah be with you. I was quoting 1 John 4:2 on how to know or measure the
spirit of a man.

1 John 4:2 Hereby know ye the Spirit of Yah: Every spirit that confesseth that Yahshua the messiah is come in the flesh is of Yah:
3 And every spirit that confesseth not that Yahshua the messiah is come in the flesh is not of God: and this is that spirit of antichrist, whereof ye have heard that it should come; and even now already is it in the world.
4 Ye are of Yah, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is IN YOU, than he that is in the world.

You say > I owe these people alot, it is because of them that I came unto understanding. Ironic eh? I want to let them understand as well, unfortunatly this Spirit they believe over me. <<

I know what you mean... "the first shall be last and the last shall be first" (smile)

Yah has many mansions (houses/faiths) in his kingdom. People are as versitile as all of Yahs creation, no flower is the same, so to speak.
I have often ran across people that thought the bible was too "tough of reading" for them. That it was "over their head". I found what works best is to just simply "quote scripture" as the oppertunity arises. I quote King David alot. (psalms)
One day you will quote something, and later they will pick up a bible to look for it, to see if it really "says that". It is likely they won't "find" what you quoted but will start reading something else that catches their attention.

Yahs word will not return unto him void. There are many people that do not "read". So it is good for us to "bring it to them" so to speak by "quoting scripture" all the time. Adventually the "seed" will take root... if they are kind people at all... and it certainly sounds like they are. For we are told that we receive of His "Fullness" > mercy for mercy. (John 1)

They may never come into the same understanding that you have, or if they do, it's likely you will have a deeper understanding by then.
It's like a 2nd. grader and a 5th. grader never have the same understanding at the same time. But the unity comes from faith. and love, and mercy.
Whoever "dwells in love"... dwells in Yah. even if they have a different understanding. I find the most important thing for all of us, is to get eachother to TALK TO YAH. Turn to Him and TALK to Him, and Ask Him to write His laws on our heart.

1 John 4:14 And we have seen and do testify that the Father sent the Son the Saviour of the world.
15 Whosoever shall confess that Yahshua (Yahs salvation) is the Son (offspring/ or proceeded forth) of Yah, Yah dwelleth in him, and he in Yah.
16 And we have known and believed the love that Yah hath to us. Yah is love; and he that dwelleth in love dwelleth in Yah, and Yah in him.

The "Fruits" of the spirit are patience, love, gentelness, mercy, long suffering etc. If any man lacketh anything, he may turn to Yah and ask him for it. Believeing in His goodness to bring it forth. And Yah is true to deliver all that believe in Him, and trust Him for their salvation.

I hope this helped. And of course, continue to pray for them.

Yah be with you Scarlet.
May Yah put His Name upon you and call you His.

Love,
d'

[Antotiyah Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close Antotiyah]

Shalom DeAnna

This is so convincing really!

even if it is just your thoughts it can be taken as actual truth. It would be hard (for me) to speak almost anything against it.

I will be studying on this-
could you also please study Paul with me too?
there is that one brother on this site and a few on eliyah's grafitti page that refute paul. So I need to be up on that one too.

shalom big sis
EHYEH be with you always
AntotiYah

[DeAnna Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close DeAnna]

Shalom AntotiYah,

Yes, I will be glad to study Paul with you brother.

Do not worry or fret over the accusations toward Paul.
Keep in mind that it is Paul that "preaches the gospel that saves".
And as you saw in "Gospel according to the scriptures"... That all the scriptures testify to this gospel, not just Pauls.

Is Paul or any of the diciples "error free". No, I do not believe so.
Dear brother, I am not of the mind that every word written in the bible is "infalible". any more then I am convinced that those today that are spirit led, what they/we write is infalible.

So it is important that "out of the mouth of two to three witnesses" ... be observed.

For Paul preaches the gospel that I love with all of my heart.
Our entire hope and existance depends upon it.
However he also preaches that a woman cannot preach, nor usher authority over a man. And yet, Yahshua relays no such thing. In fact in Eph; "there is no male or female in the spirit".
This "idea" (woman cannot preach) is mentioned twice in the New Testiment, however both times it is the same mouth (Paul) that is speaking it.
So this is still only one witness.

It is written in scripture where men turned into a "propetess" to receive instruction from her given her by Yah. So what Pauls says here doesn't "line up"... I do not say this because I am a female.
I do not consider myself a "preacher"... but do consider us all a "witness" unto Yah, as you know... to declare His works.
But it "makes sense to me" that in the spirit there is no male or female, no bond or free, no greek or jew etc.

This does not cause me to think that Paul was not spirit filled.
Nor does it cause me to dislike him in anyway. I love Paul greatly!
I do not agree that he is hard to understand. I relate to him very much. I often "see" exactly what he is saying. and feel the same way.

Nor do I beleive that the old testiment is "infalible". Again...
I trust Yah to "reveal" HIMSELF as He says He will. Even if that revelation is different then what is "written".
For "truth" is simple. And once exposed, no man can "shut it" so to speak. Its like once you understand "why" 2 plus 2 = 4, no man can take it from you.

Example; in the law it says not to eat pork.
And yet; Yahshua says; "It is not what goes into a mans mouth that defiles him, but what comes out of it."

When asked about it from his diciples, Yahshua goes into greater detail; "Do ye not know that what goes in a mans mouth enters the stomach and COMES OUT THROUGH THE DROUGHT"?

But what comes out of a mans mouth comes from the heart..."

See... this "makes sense" to me.
So am i gonna worry about someone eating pork? no.
I'm gonna worry about someone who is always pointing the finger.
I'm gonna pray for that person, and try to remind that person, kindly and friendly, what is written such as; "forgive that ye may be..." I am going to say things like; "Yeah... but we truly all fall short..." etc. to encourage patience and forgiveness etc.
I am not going to take someones time up by preaching to them about eating pork. But will encourage them to take all things to Yah, and pray/ask for His Revelation.

Paul is most definately "legit" though. Just as we are AntotiYah.

Just as there were "13" tribes, there are "13 diciples".

Just as Levi was a "snake" so was Judas.
Both "kept the purse" so to speak. Both were money motivated.
Just as the "churches" today are.

I haven't studied it, but it would be likely i think, that Paul would line up with one of the later added tribes; such as manasses or ephraim.

I don't agree with every thing the diciples say, I don't agree with every thing the "law" says. (that it is of YAH that is)
But I also realize that I may just not have had that "understanding" opened yet as well. But until it "lines up", with the prophets and Yahshua... I set it aside and pray about it.
Same goes with the prophets... when all things "line up"... the law, prophets, and Yahshua... I take this to heart. I ponder and pray and ask for the establishment of it, in me.

I am still not positive that Yah reckognises the "physical keeping of the sabbath". I pray about it all of the time.
I am very convinced of the spiritual keeping of it though.
For It would be hard for me to believe that if one is given the "spiritual" keeping of the sabbath ie; realizing that one cannot work, sell, buy, or purge their way into salvation.
And trust Yah unto His salvation...
that if they worked a physical job, or bought something from friday sunset, to sat. sunset... that they would be forsaken for it.

But I "can" see one keeping the physical, and yet be forsaken for not keeping the spiritual. Or not asking for the establishment of it.
Because i am "not" sure about this, I pray for both. (smile)
But I can't help but "lean" toward what "makes sense" in what I understand Yah to be all about. and that is mercy, and love!

So... lets study paul. (smile)
But you gotta "start", cause I don't know where your "head" is so to speak... okay? lol.

Yah be with you AntotiYah, I do know that He truly is.
Love,
"big sis" (giggle)
d'

[israelthebride Registered User Find all posts View Profile Close israelthebride]

the TWO WITNESSES

When the LORD calls HIS TWO WINESSES to HIM. (REV 11:11-12) The TWO Olive branches, the "ANNOINTED ONES", that stand before the LORD of the Earth. (ZECH 4:11-14, REV 11:4) The TWO Branches that used to be ONE. (JER 11:16-17) The TWO that will be ONE. (ROMANS 11:17-21,24) The TWO WITNESSES are TWO "PEOPLES" (Two groups of people) (Read Ezekiel 37)
Revelation:11:12 Then they heard a loud voice from heaven saying to them, "Come up here." And they went up to heaven in a cloud, while their enemies looked on.

This I Believe

I believe that the LORD’s plan is to get HIS BODY together. (Ezekiel 37:1-12) It started with the first man and woman. I believe that they were created as ONE and then separated into two. (Genesis 1:26-28, 2:21-23) Then, they went and did what they wanted to do; on their own. Both of them sinned. (Genesis 3:6) The LORD in HIS LOVING GRACE killed an innocent animal ( I believe a LAMB), instead of the man and woman, and took it’s skin and covered them. (Genesis 3:21) HE covered their sin with INNOCENT SKIN. I believe that’s why Abel’s gift was respected. (Genesis 4:2-5) Abel was offering to GOD, GOD’s SACRIFICE. As we should.
I believe that GOD, HIMSELF, came to take the place of that SACRIFICED LAMB. GOD, Y’SHUA, came and denying HIMSELF became a human indwelled by HIS HOLY SPIRIT. As we should. Everything HE did was as a human listening and following the HOLY SPIRIT. As we should. I believe that HE, as a human, had to learn who HE WAS. As we do. HE, GOD, put all creation on the line for our SALVATION. HE LOVES US!!! HE did what we are capable of doing. The only difference is that HE is the HEAD of HIS BODY and we are HIS BODY.
GOD, Y’SHUA, is creating HIS BODY!!! Each one of us a “cell” – a “room”.
The end is covered by the “TWO (olive branches/candlesticks) ANNOINTED ONES that stand before the LORD of the Earth”. (Zechariah 4 / Revelation 11) I believe the TWO ANNOINTED ONES are the TWO OLIVE trees, becoming ONE, in Romans 11. The TWO branches that were broken off in Jeremiah 11. The TWO WITNESSES are not two people, but TWO PEOPLES that will become ONE.
HIS BODY!!!
The TWO are explained in Ezekiel 37:15-28. In fact, HIS WORD (The BIBLE) is prophesized in these verses. The word that is translated “stick” in Ezekiel 37 is translated to “tables / tablets” in Habakkuk 2:2. I believe that the “tablet” written for “the HOUSE of JUDAH” is our “Old COVENANT” and the “tablet” written for the “HOUSE of JOSEPH, that is in the hand of EPHRAIM”(House of ISRAEL) is our “New COVENANT”. Joined together into ONE TABLET; ONE in MY HAND!!!

And when I AM asked, “What does all this mean?” I will answer:

The TWO kingdoms (TWO PEOPLES-The TWO WITNESSES) will become ONE,
never to be two again,
under ONE KING!!!

This --- I Believe!!!