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  • An Honest and Sincere explanation of "crucifying the Son of Elohim AFRESH."

    Shalom Everyone, I would like to give an honest and sincere explanation of what the writer of Hebrews states concerning about those who fall away, that they are crucifying again the Son of Elohim. Here is the KJV version of the Scriptures in question:

    ( KJV) Heb 6:4-6
    (4) For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,
    (5) And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come,
    (6) If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put Him to an open shame.
    Prior to these verses in Hebrews 5, the writer explains about how the high priest is chosen by Elohim, to offer FOR sin, the sacrifices and gifts as were prescribed by the Law, and Yeshua also in not glorifying Himself to be made a high priest (Heb 5:5), but instead He learned obedience by the things which He suffered, and was CALLED of Elohim to be the PERFECT High Priest, after the order of Melchisedec. This writer then states he has much to say about these things, but the Hebrews were "dull of hearing." The Hebrews should have been teachers, yet they were in need to be taught again the FIRST principles of Elohim's WORD, and needed MILK, instead of strong meat.

    So as you can see, the writer of Hebrews is admonishing those with whom he is writing to, and then WARNING them in Hebrews 6 about NOT falling away, because of what would happen. If a believer, who has had their understanding OPENED to understand these FIRST principles of faith in Yeshua (baptism, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment), and THEN they FALL AWAY, to where they would need to RENEW their REPENTANCE, they would AGAIN be CRUCIFYING Yeshua (for themselves), and putting Him to open shame. This statement by the writer of Hebrews of re-crucifying or crucifying AFRESH or AGAIN positively shows that sinners, in need of repentance, are those who originally CRUCIFIED Yeshua.

    I would like to consider the LITV (Literal Translation of the Bible), and here is a comment by the author of this bible explaining his method of translating the Greek:

    "every precaution was taken to preserve the particulars of the text; each verb is carefully scrutinized to maintain its tense, number, voice and mood; the case of each noun examined to retain its proper function in sentence; each participle carefully translated to preserve its aspect. Sense words (words added by the translator to make a sentence more intelligible) are kept to an absolute minimum without sacrificing readability, and when used are always bracketed so that you know which words are God's and which are the translator's. You won't find a more literal rendition of the very words of God in any other version"
    So just keep this in mind when you view the LITV rendering of Hebrews 6:4-6:

    Heb 6:4-6
    (4) For it is impossible for those once having been enlightened, and having tasted of the heavenly gift, and becoming sharers of the Holy Spirit,
    (5) and tasting the good Word of God, and the works of power of a coming age,
    (6) and having fallen away, it is impossible for them again to renew to repentance, crucifying again for themselves the Son of God, and putting Him to open shame.
    This LITV translation shows those who have "fallen away" are "crucifying AGAIN" FOR THEMSELVES, the Son of Elohim. You see, in the Law of Moses, a SINNER was to kill or SLAY THEIR offering, FOR THEMSELVES, and not for someone else, and for certain, the offering was not to SLAY itself for them(Lev 4:27-29). The sinner HAD to kill the offering, and this is what happened to Yeshua, ALL sinners did SLAY Him, as He WILLINGLY gave His life to them. No one TOOK His life from Him WITHOUT His WILLING consent. He layed down His life, and what happened to Him, was according to what was written. Here is what He predicted:

    Mar 9:31
    (31) For He taught His disciples, and said unto them, The Son of man is delivered into the hands of men, and they shall kill Him; and after that He is killed, He shall rise the third day.
    As you should be able to see, Yeshua is not PREDICTING that He will kill Himself, He is predicting that He will be killed by the "hands of men." It is totally mis-applying Yeshua's other statements about His WILLINGNESS to give up His life, and MEANING that He would take His own life. That is preposterous, and those who believe this are in denial of the Truth of the One True Gospel. So please, understand, every SINNER'S sin, unrepentant sin, is the catalyst which CRUCIFIED the Son of Elohim. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
    Abstain from meats offered to idols
    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

  • #2
    Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Shalom Everyone, I would like to give an honest and sincere explanation of what the writer of Hebrews states concerning about those who fall away, that they are crucifying again the Son of Elohim. Here is the KJV version of the Scriptures in question:

    Prior to these verses in Hebrews 5, the writer explains about how the high priest is chosen by Elohim, to offer FOR sin, the sacrifices and gifts as were prescribed by the Law, and Yeshua also in not glorifying Himself to be made a high priest (Heb 5:5), but instead He learned obedience by the things which He suffered, and was CALLED of Elohim to be the PERFECT High Priest, after the order of Melchisedec. This writer then states he has much to say about these things, but the Hebrews were "dull of hearing." The Hebrews should have been teachers, yet they were in need to be taught again the FIRST principles of Elohim's WORD, and needed MILK, instead of strong meat.

    So as you can see, the writer of Hebrews is admonishing those with whom he is writing to, and then WARNING them in Hebrews 6 about NOT falling away, because of what would happen. If a believer, who has had their understanding OPENED to understand these FIRST principles of faith in Yeshua (baptism, laying on of hands, the resurrection of the dead, and eternal judgment), and THEN they FALL AWAY, to where they would need to RENEW their REPENTANCE, they would AGAIN be CRUCIFYING Yeshua (for themselves), and putting Him to open shame. This statement by the writer of Hebrews of re-crucifying or crucifying AFRESH or AGAIN positively shows that sinners, in need of repentance, are those who originally CRUCIFIED Yeshua.

    I would like to consider the LITV (Literal Translation of the Bible), and here is a comment by the author of this bible explaining his method of translating the Greek:

    So just keep this in mind when you view the LITV rendering of Hebrews 6:4-6:

    This LITV translation shows those who have "fallen away" are "crucifying AGAIN" FOR THEMSELVES, the Son of Elohim. You see, in the Law of Moses, a SINNER was to kill or SLAY THEIR offering, FOR THEMSELVES, and not for someone else, and for certain, the offering was not to SLAY itself for them(Lev 4:27-29). The sinner HAD to kill the offering, and this is what happened to Yeshua, ALL sinners did SLAY Him, as He WILLINGLY gave His life to them. No one TOOK His life from Him WITHOUT His WILLING consent. He layed down His life, and what happened to Him, was according to what was written. Here is what He predicted:

    As you should be able to see, Yeshua is not PREDICTING that He will kill Himself, He is predicting that He will be killed by the "hands of men." It is totally mis-applying Yeshua's other statements about His WILLINGNESS to give up His life, and MEANING that He would take His own life. That is preposterous, and those who believe this are in denial of the Truth of the One True Gospel. So please, understand, every SINNER'S sin, unrepentant sin, is the catalyst which CRUCIFIED the Son of Elohim. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
    Ken,

    Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
      Well Ken, I can tell you what this verse does NOT say, that we crucified Him the first time.

      But I can give you Yah'Shua Messiah's own words, if you will believe and accept them?

      Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

      No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
      John 10:17-18.

      because I lay down my life, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.

      If you will believe and accept them?

      Here is the first post of scriptures Ken.
      Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
      Ken,

      Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??
      Shalom Eliyahu, you have for months quoted how “no one took his life, but that he laid it down Himself.” I have been trying for months to convince you that you, me, and ALL sinners did SLAY their sin offering, Messiah Yeshua, with the help of wicked men, and that He did NOT kill Himself. You are the one denying the Truth of the One True Gospel, and making it appear in your doctrine and teachings that He “took” His own life, by laying it down, with no one else taking His life FROM Him. That is YOUR argument against OUR Sacrificing of Him by sinning. Do you not realize that all have sinned and fallen short of Elohim’s Glory, therefore, ALL have this Free Gift of Righteousness through THEIR sacrificing of Yeshua, and PIERCING Him on the Cross.

      You have had ample opportunity to PICK who you thought it was that crucified Yeshua, and you remained silent, as you do not want to admit to any complicity at ALL in His suffering and death. Those who FIRST believed the Gospel were TOLD by Peter that they had put Messiah Yeshua to death, with the help of wicked men, and THEY were cut to the heart and BELIEVED. For some reason, you cannot do the same. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
      Abstain from meats offered to idols
      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
        Shalom Eliyahu, you have for months quoted how “no one took his life, but that he laid it down Himself.” I have been trying for months to convince you that you, me, and ALL sinners did SLAY their sin offering, Messiah Yeshua, with the help of wicked men, and that He did NOT kill Himself. You are the one denying the Truth of the One True Gospel, and making it appear in your doctrine and teachings that He “took” His own life, by laying it down, with no one else taking His life FROM Him. That is YOUR argument against OUR Sacrificing of Him by sinning. Do you not realize that all have sinned and fallen short of Elohim’s Glory, therefore, ALL have this Free Gift of Righteousness through THEIR sacrificing of Yeshua, and PIERCING Him on the Cross.

        You have had ample opportunity to PICK who you thought it was that crucified Yeshua, and you remained silent, as you do not want to admit to any complicity at ALL in His suffering and death. Those who FIRST believed the Gospel were TOLD by Peter that they had put Messiah Yeshua to death, with the help of wicked men, and THEY were cut to the heart and BELIEVED. For some reason, you cannot do the same. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
        Ken, I asked.

        Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??

        Where and in what post did I write your black words here Ken: He will kill Himself??

        Comment


        • #5
          Please forgive me.

          Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
          Ken, I asked.

          Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??

          Where and in what post did I write your black words here Ken: He will kill Himself??
          Shalom Eliyahu, please forgive me for thinking you felt that no one else took Yeshua’s life (thus making it appear that He killed himself). And I appreciate you believe and feel that He did not take His own life, and that someone else did take it from Him. Who do you think took His life from Him, since we both know He did not do this Himself? Who Crucified Yeshua, and who would it be who is in need to renew their repentance (after falling away), thus re-crucifying Yeshua AFRESH or AGAIN? Who would that be? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
          Abstain from meats offered to idols
          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
            Shalom Eliyahu, please forgive me for thinking you felt that no one else took Yeshua’s life (thus making it appear that He killed himself). And I appreciate you believe and feel that He did not take His own life, and that someone else did take it from Him. Who do you think took His life from Him, since we both know He did not do this Himself? Who Crucified Yeshua, and who would it be who is in need to renew their repentance (after falling away), thus re-crucifying Yeshua AFRESH or AGAIN? Who would that be? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
            Ken,

            Are you willing to believe and accept the scriptures, or is it all you want is someone's imaginations about the scriptures?

            Comment


            • #7
              Oh no no.

              Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
              Ken,

              Are you willing to believe and accept the scriptures, or is it all you want is someone's imaginations about the scriptures?
              Shalom Eliyahu, oh no no, I do want to believe the Scriptures. Who do you think took His life, according to the Scriptures? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
              Abstain from meats offered to idols
              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                Shalom Eliyahu, oh no no, I do want to believe the Scriptures. Who do you think took His life, according to the Scriptures? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                Well Ken,

                According to Messiah's own words, not my words or ideas, or your words or ideas:

                Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

                No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
                I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
                John 10:17-18.

                because I lay down my life, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Ken, I asked.

                  Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??

                  Where and in what post did I write your black words here Ken: He will kill Himself??

                  Or was this repeat thread another ploy of yours to argue your own imaginations about the scriptures again?

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    You never wrote those exact words.

                    Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                    Ken, I asked.

                    Who has written and said that, He will kill Himself??

                    Where and in what post did I write your black words here Ken: He will kill Himself??

                    Or was this repeat thread another ploy of yours to argue your own imaginations about the scriptures again?
                    Shalom Eliyahu, you never wrote those exact words. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                    Abstain from meats offered to idols
                    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Who did take His Life?

                      Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                      Well Ken,

                      According to Messiah's own words, not my words or ideas, or your words or ideas:

                      Therefore doth my Father love me, because I lay down my life, that I might take it again.

                      No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
                      I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This commandment have I received of my Father.
                      John 10:17-18.

                      because I lay down my life, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
                      Shalom Eliyahu, did Yeshua take His own life, or did someone else take it? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                      Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                      Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                      Abstain from meats offered to idols
                      (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                      So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                        Shalom Eliyahu, you never wrote those exact words. Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                        Ken, that is correct I never, and neither do any of the apostles either, and you should not be implying that we did either.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Great.

                          Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                          Ken, that is correct I never, and neither do any of the apostles either, and you should not be implying that we did either.
                          Shalom Eliyahu, great, we have that out of the way. So since you never wrote the exact words that “He will kill Himself,” have you not written the words that “no one took His life?” So if no one took His life, who do you think actually took it? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                          Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                          Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                          Abstain from meats offered to idols
                          (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                          So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                            Shalom Eliyahu, great, we have that out of the way. So since you never wrote the exact words that “He will kill Himself,” have you not written the words that “no one took His life?” So if no one took His life, who do you think actually took it? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                            Well Ken,

                            Messiah Himself said, and the apostle John wrote it, not me.

                            because I lay down my life, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Not trying to put words in your mouth.

                              Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                              Well Ken,

                              Messiah Himself said, and the apostle John wrote it, not me.

                              because I lay down my life, No man taketh it from me, but I lay it down of myself.
                              Shalom Eliyahu, not trying to put words in your mouth, but are you saying Yeshua took His own life, if no man has taken it? Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.
                              Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                              Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                              Abstain from meats offered to idols
                              (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                              So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                              Comment

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