Sour Grapes!

[Spying]

Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

One of the hallmarks of substitutionalism fostered in some fashion by Lucy and the vast majority of Matrix Christianity is the belief that the children do suffer for the sins of the fathers. In other words, Messiah Yahushua did suffer not for his own sin because Messiah did not sin, rather, Messiah did suffer and die in our stead because of all of our sins.

The Law is very clear about this issue:

Deuteronomy 24:16

16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

This commandment in the LAW absolutely prohibits any idea or theory that Messiah Yahushua did suffer and was put to death in our stead for our sins. Of course, it is possible that YAHWEH ELOHIM did change HIS mind on this issue. It does now behoove all those who believe in substitutionalism to come forward and show where YAHWEH ELOHIM did change HIS mind on this very important commandment. I do know that in the legal system of the United States that our children cannot be put to death for the capital offences of the parents.

Obviously, since Lucy believes that Messiah Yahushua suffered and died for our sins in our stead, then it must be that Australians do hold that children can be to death for the capital sins of the parents.

As far as I am concerned, any such belief or idea is the very height of sour grapes!

Thanking anyone in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

[LucySmith]

Spying TEACHING HIS gospel, as a combo of law / the new covenant...he plays with it

and switches at will depending upon his mood.
BTW
it can be ''the law of Moses said '' = one day
or
Saul/Paul the 13th apostle= another day...
we just have to pick his mood of the day~~ and correct him and put him back on track.

ask???
Was Jesus a substitute for our sin?
Did He take our place and paid the price as OUR REDEEMER?
Did Yeshua take my sin into His body.?

“He himself bore our sins in His body on the tree, so that we might die to sins and live for righteousness; by His wounds you have been healed” (1 Peter 2:24).

He, bore my sin in His body, to that I may die to sin and live for righteousness...then... BY HIS STRIPES I HAVE BEEN HEALED

IS THAT REALLY SIMPLE TO UNDERSTAND?
HOW WAS I HEALED? OFCOURSE - By His stripes

Why does Spying confuse this issue when it is very plain, to see.
+ no one needs to have the IQ of Prof. Einstein to comprehend these words.

Here again we see that Christ took the sins we committed onto Himself to pay the price for us.
A few verses later we read,

“For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
He was put to death in the body but made alive by the Spirit” (1 Peter 3:18)

Not only do these verses teach us about the substitute that Christ was for us, but they also teach that He was the atonement, meaning He satisfied the payment due for the sinfulness of man

REDEEM - WORD MEANING
something/someone that compensates for poor past performance or behaviour.
synonyms:
vindicate,
save/free from blame,
absolve,
remove guilt from

now you can thrash around in your religious bubble Spying, but 1 thing you cannot do, is drown the truth in that sea of delusions you swim in.
it doesnt work~~~BECAUSE OF THIS VERSE

Isaiah 53:5
But He was pierced for our transgressions;
He was crushed for our iniquities;
Upon Him was the chastisement that brought us peace,
and with His wounds we are healed.

this act was for the 3 in 1 package for our spirit our soul and our body.
Because we cannot redeem ourselves from sin, God has compassion on us and pays the price himself, cancelling our debt to him.
The price paid, and the sacrifice made, to accomplish our redemption, was nothing less than the death of his Son, Jesus Christ.
Only the death of Christ could take away sins (Hebrews 9:15).

the Law of Moses HAS TO TAKE 1ST place in Spying's life~~~ and his life is one of curses and he wears them like medals.
TIME YOU GOT DELIVERED Spying, out from death and into REAL LIFE~~~~

[ImAHebrew]

Just like her substitutional ancestors.

Hi Everyone,

Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

One of the hallmarks of substitutionalism fostered in some fashion by Lucy and the vast majority of Matrix Christianity is the belief that the children do suffer for the sins of the fathers. In other words, Messiah Yahushua did suffer not for his own sin because Messiah did not sin, rather, Messiah did suffer and die in our stead because of all of our sins.

The Law is very clear about this issue:

Deuteronomy 24:16

16 The fathers shall not be put to death for the children, neither shall the children be put to death for the fathers: every man shall be put to death for his own sin.

This commandment in the LAW absolutely prohibits any idea or theory that Messiah Yahushua did suffer and was put to death in our stead for our sins. Of course, it is possible that YAHWEH ELOHIM did change HIS mind on this issue. It does now behoove all those who believe in substitutionalism to come forward and show where YAHWEH ELOHIM did change HIS mind on this very important commandment. I do know that in the legal system of the United States that our children cannot be put to death for the capital offences of the parents.

Obviously, since Lucy believes that Messiah Yahushua suffered and died for our sins in our stead, then it must be that Australians do hold that children can be to death for the capital sins of the parents.

As far as I am concerned, any such belief or idea is the very height of sour grapes!

Thanking anyone in advance that should be moved to reply, I am,
Sincerely, Latuwr

Shalom Spying, Lucy is just like the substitutional Pharisees of 2000 years ago who would debate that the Law clearly taught that Elohim required the shedding of a goat’s or lamb’s or bullock’s blood just so that He could forgive them, and atone for their sin. She, like ALL of traditional Christianity, along with the Jews, believe in a bloodthirsty deity who demands innocent substitutes die in the place of the wicked, just so they can get their substitutional justification:

Ex 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

It amazes me how those who refuse to LOVE the Truth of the One True Gospel (which is ACCORDING to the Scriptures), will fall under the strong delusion of substitutionalism.

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

[LucySmith]

the clue is to figure out why '' they call Father a monster'' and other rude names

when '' THE LAMB WAS SLAIN FROM THE FOUNDATION OF THE EARTH''
so lets figure their ''protests'' over redemption/sacrifice/substitute = words....

well its so easy
they have to go all smarley and RILED UP because the law of Moses has to give way to the NEW COVENANT AND THIS F.I.N.I.S.H.E.D. work of the cross....
why?
because you cannot have the 2 dimension joined together.

so... they mix up the scriptures and torture the meanings because the bible is DUAL in
some places.

not only that =THE OLD PRIESTHOOD ALL DIED in 70ad... so now no jew has forgiveness of sins as there is no longer the temple with daily sacrifices...
poor Spying
shame as he is a religious con artist who doesn't really know the scriptures at all but peddles his own religious canoe..
lets.beware of his '''' sour grapes'''''+watch out for the Pharisee who pulls down the work of the cross

[ImAHebrew]

Yes Spying, “Sour Grapes!”

Shalom Spying, Lucy is just like the substitutional Pharisees of 2000 years ago who would debate that the Law clearly taught that Elohim required the shedding of a goat’s or lamb’s or bullock’s blood just so that He could forgive them, and atone for their sin. She, like ALL of traditional Christianity, along with the Jews, believe in a bloodthirsty deity who demands innocent substitutes die in the place of the wicked, just so they can get their substitutional justification:

Ex 23:7 Keep thee far from a false matter; and the innocent and righteous slay thou not: for I will not justify the wicked.

It amazes me how those who refuse to LOVE the Truth of the One True Gospel (which is ACCORDING to the Scriptures), will fall under the strong delusion of substitutionalism.

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

Shalom Spying, yes, you are correct about the “sour grapes.” It clearly teaches concerning the New Covenant that Elohim will no longer allow or approve of the fathers eating sour grapes, and the children’s teeth set on edge, but that EACH sinner will die for their OWN sin. With the New Covenant, substitutes will not die in the stead of the wicked, (sons will not die for the sins of their fathers), so for certain, the Son of Man will not die as a substitute for the sins of sinful man.

Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken.

[LucySmith]

Lets put the brown brothers back into their box...

ITS ALL IGNORANCE THEY PEDDLE.
they haven't a clue as they are not truth seekers but, MOSES OT law in part keepers.
sigh
let's get over them,
so lets get serious here and TALK some REAL GOOD divine knowing HERE.

the VEIL OF THE TEMPLE WAS RENT IN TWO at the death of Yeshua on the Cross, where we are told HE BORE OUR SINS in His Body,
WHAT?
THE WHOLE CURTAIN TORN INTO 2 PIECES.... YES... BUT WHAT ELSE.

You will never know if you don't seek out the truth
So the real truth is....
All the world until the cross, lived under one frequency [ energy power] = vanity was this frequency

What happened was...
When the VEIL was rent -or- when this frequency was changed - think of this like - like switching radio stations into another channel.
SUDDENLY
A warp appeared in the very structure of vanity as Yeshua died this warp HAPPENED so that immediately there was a change of the frequency level upwards of this universe into a higher degree [from previously] called KINGDOM OF GOD FREQUENCY
aka - the same power energy pack Yeshua walked in.

Yeshua walked in a different frequency that NO OTHER MAN had ever walked in....
[ YES HE was in the world of vanity but not part of its frequency level]

WHEN He bore our sins in His body, this SIGNALED the end of our captivity to VANITY's frequency [energy] and as the veil was rent, AKA = the real veil of personal ignorance and captivity to the system was also rent,

THE PERISHING SYSTEM HAD COME TO A CLOSE because vanity had been defeated~~~~
the whole system that had held vanity in power was defeated.
THE CAPTIVES TO THE ENERGY FREQUENCY HAD BECOME FREE.

OR

PUT ANOTHER WAY we can Pass over from death into DIVINE LIFE HERE by learning how to enter into THE same frequency that Yeshua walked in.

now the Pharisees KNEW NOTHING OF THIS REVELATION AND THEY HATED Yeshua just as the Brown boys throw THEIR IGNORANCE BOMBS at me.... they know nothing.
ITS ALL JUST STUPID TALK like dead men grasping their last
BOYS no one will ever believe as you make up your belief because they look at the lives you have lived.....and say NO thanks.,

whatever the Christian church has, and whatever these 2 Browns Boys have ITS NOT, THE ENERGY OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD.
NO WAY - THEY REMAIN victims of vanity year in and out...and captives to a system THAT IS NOT DIVINE.
YOU HAVE JUST WASTED 70+ YEARS of your lives in a vain religious pursuit and achieved nothing but curses for your beliefs.

[LucySmith]

the atonement - in picture form



the captives are now set free by the cross and its work.
THE REALM of vanity and her dark energy now defeated as Brother Yeshua, paid the price, and LOVE ALONE set all the captives free.

the captives were set like rods in concrete, totally unable to move out from their FIXED POSITION OF BEING SUPER CLUED INTO VANITY and all its mark missing flaws.
nothing could bridge that gulf but the POWER OF THE CROSS.
WHY did the cross defeat vanity.... How can it be fully explained.

well to paraphrase Nicodemus gospel, the devil satan fell into a trap and HAD AN INNOCENT MAN KILLED....THAT WAS THE TRAP;
Satan murdered an innocent man.
THE GOSPEL OF NICODEMUS DESCRIBES THIS ACT IN GREAT DETAIL....SO we actually understand THE POWER OF THE CROSS AND ITS WORK

https://archive.org/stream/pdfy-5lij...demus_djvu.txt
A SNIPPET from this Gospel
few know of.

O Satan, prince of all evil, au-
thor of death, and source of all
pride, thou shouldest first have in-
quired into the evil crimes of Jesus
of Nazareth, and then thou wouldest
have found that he was guilty of no
fault worthy of death.

13 Why didst thou venture, without
either reason or justice, to crucify
him, and hast brought down to our
regions a person innocent and righeous

and thereby hast lost all the
sinners, impious and unrighteous
persons in the whole world?

vanity and all its evil systems humans only know of...lost out that day of the CROSS and so few people understand the enormous work YESHUA DID FOR US inlove.
The day of the Cross was the day of escaping, yet so few do.
This terrible situation can be likened to the Black American slaves and their final release from misery and wants... According to History, when their owners told them to go they were now free they didn't know what to do, so sat outside they former homes...LOST and unable to understand WHAT TRUE FREEDOM MEANT.

THE Christian church remains victims as do the Brown Brothers...they are not freed from vanity but fully subjected to it by living within its false religious bubbles, filled with destruction and curses
how can? we tell

VICTIMS remain as victims and cannot overcome satan.
THEY DONT KNOW HOW