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OS Answer #5 -- Jesus Christ doesn't fit Isaiah 53:8-9

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  • OS Answer #5 -- Jesus Christ doesn't fit Isaiah 53:8-9

    (5) My question about Isaiah 53:8

    Are you so caught up in your anti-Christian hate fest that you can't even read the Tenakh? "cut off out of the land of the living", "made his grave", and "his tomb, sounds dead to me!

    (JPS)Isa 53:8 By oppression and judgment he was taken away, and with his generation who did reason? for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
    9 And they made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich his tomb; although he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.’
    I think that I already answered you on Isaiah 53:8. It is an obscure passage. The servant can be better identified as Israel than Jesus Christ. Without having to dig out some of the answers that several other intelligent Jews and I have already advanced in so many posts let me repeat myself from a different angle. First let me dissect the different subjects in verses 8-9,


    (1) By oppression and judgment he was taken away.
    (2) And with his generation who did reason?
    (3) for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.
    (4) And they made his grave with the wicked,
    (5) and with the rich his tomb;
    (6) although he had done no violence,
    (7) neither was any deceit in his mouth.



    (1) By oppression and judgment he was taken away.


    Jesus Christ was not oppressed. He was not taken away into captivity, Israel was.

    (2) And with his generation who did reason?

    Totally not applicable to Jesus Christ alone, but to anybody. If there is a fulfillment in Jesus Christ it is the opposite of what is implied in the text.

    (3) for he was cut off out of the land of the living, for the transgression of my people to whom the stroke was due.

    It is next to impossible to apply this verse to Jesus Christ. First because the Christians believe that Jesus Christ was resurrected while this verse says that he was cut off for good. The reason for being cut off is “the transgression of my people.” There is no positive evidence that Jesus Christ identified himself to any oppressing judge as the person who was going to die for the nation or anyone else, even contrary to HaTorah. Almighty Yahweh doesn’t accept that an innocent person die for the guilty. In fact, Jesus Christ disassociated himself from the Jewish people before Pontius Pilate in the most despicable act of treason ever recorded in religious history.

    John 18:36 (NIV) Jesus said, "My kingdom is not of this world. If it were, my servants would fight to prevent my arrest by the Jews. But now my kingdom is from another place."

    (4) And they made his grave with the wicked,


    Not applicable to Jesus Christ. He had a brand new grave all for himself. There were no wicked persons buried with him. The 2 “thieves” were buried somewhere else. The “good thief” was supposed to meet him in “Paradise.” However, this verse can be figuratively applied to Israel. Read the story of the Valley of Dry Bones, in Ezekiel 37.

    (5) and with the rich his tomb;

    Jesus Christ said that he had no place where to lay his head. Although his lifestyle contradicts such statement. He was very well funded. He had a lot of rich women supporting him. So it is possible that his tomb was paid up by some rich friends of his, but no rich people were entombed with him.

    Luke 8:2 (BBE) And certain women who had been made free from evil spirits and diseases, Mary named Magdalene, from whom seven evil spirits had gone out,
    3 And Joanna, the wife of Chuza, Herod's chief house-servant, and Susanna and a number of others, who gave him of their wealth for his needs.


    This verse is applicable to Israel because we know that a lot of rich nations buried Israel in their respective countries. Israel fits better here than Jesus Christ.

    (5) although he had done no violence,


    Jesus Christ is making a clear statement that he came to brake up the home. He plotted to have an armed rebellion against the Roman Empire during the celebration of the Passover Seder, also in violation of HaTorah. He ordered his disciples to sell their coats and to buy weapons of war. He was surprised to learn that 2 of his disciples were already armed with swords. He figured that he had enough. Maybe he thought to reproduce the miracle of the multiplication of bread and fish that he knew to do so well in the past. The NT is so flaky at this point.

    Applying this verse to Israel... The Jews have contributed with their knowledge to improve considerably our life on Earth. The Jews made a lot of advances to better humanity while Jesus Christ brought death and destruction to millions of Jews. So it is as I said. This is a very difficult passage to slap on Jesus Christ. He was preaching violence, from braking up the homes; not to honor father and mother, but to hate them; to amputate one’s body like the Heathen do; do castration; and so on. He even promised his “servants” the Christians that at his return they will be chopping the head of millions upon millions of Jews. Not content with that he is going to cast them to be burned alive with sulfur in Dante’s Inferno for his eternal pleasure and that of his followers. So, again, this verse cannot possibly be applied to Jesus Christ.

    Matthew 10:34 (NIV) "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword.

    Luke 12:51 (NIV) Do you think I came to bring peace on earth? No, I tell you, but division.
    52 From now on there will be five in one family divided against each other, three against two and two against three.
    53 They will be divided, father against son and son against father, mother against daughter and daughter against mother, mother-in-law against daughter-in-law and daughter-in-law against mother-in-law."

    Matthew 18:8 (NIV) If your hand or your foot causes you to sin cut it off and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life maimed or crippled than to have two hands or two feet and be thrown into eternal fire.
    9 And if your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out and throw it away. It is better for you to enter life with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into the fire of hell.

    Matthew 19:12 (WEY) There are men who from their birth have been disabled from marriage, others who have been so disabled by men, and others who have disabled themselves for the sake of the Kingdom of the Heavens. He who is able to receive this, let him receive it."

    Luke 19:27 (WEY) But as for those enemies of mine who were unwilling that I should become their king, bring them here, and cut them to pieces in my presence.'"


    Jesus Christ was a very violent man. Surely he didn’t kill anyone, but he preached violence in more ways than one.

    (6) neither was any deceit in his mouth.

    Jesus Christ primed Judas to betray him. He didn’t stop him from betraying him. He even told Judas to go ahead and betray him in the middle of the Passover seder that they were celebrating in contempt of HaTorah. He also had the apostles armed and made them look like rebel rousers so that a prophecy can be forcefully fulfilled. This was a shameful act below human dignity. Jesus Christ wouldn’t stop at anything to get his objectives. At least that is what the writers of the NT wrote. It is very easy to write prophecies many years after the events.

    Luke 22:36 (NIV) He said to them, "But now if you have a purse, take it, and also a bag; and if you don't have a sword, sell your cloak and buy one.
    37 It is written: `And he was numbered with the transgressors'; and I tell you that this must be fulfilled in me. Yes, what is written about me is reaching its fulfillment."

    Luke 18:31 (NIV) Jesus took the Twelve aside and told them, "We are going up to Jerusalem, and everything that is written by the prophets about the Son of Man will be fulfilled.
    32 He will be handed over to the Gentiles. They will mock him, insult him, spit on him, flog him and kill him.
    33 On the third day he will rise again."


    OK, Old Shep, I can tell you that Jesus Christ doesn’t fit the shoe of Isaiah 53:8. There are many other examples of how shifty he was. Once the Jews wanted to make him their king and he chickened out. Then he is saying that he is going to chop the heads of all the Jews who didn’t want him to be their king. Finally he is declaring to Pontius that his kingdom is not of this world. If that is the case then how come he is going to slay the Jews who didn’t want him for a king. If his kingdom is not of this world as he said, what authority does he have to judge anyone in this world? His modus operandi is very deceiving.

    I think that Jesus Christ or most likely the writers of the NT weren't well versed in HaTorah. In the NT, the Almighty Yahweh is taken completely out of the picture. Jesus Christ is the one occupying the first place. In fact, the Christians cannot even approach the Almighty unless they pray in the name of Jesus Christ who claimed to be “the way.” He never stated what gave him that authority except by misappropriation. The NT writers made him say that he is the “Only begotten son of the Almighty” while HaTorah says that Israel is the first-born son of Yahweh. This brings a conflict. Then Jesus Christ turns around and calls his kinsmen the Jews “sons of the devil” and the Christians applaud. He even called Peter, “Satan.” Imagine the first pope called, "Satan."

    Prophecy cannot be approximately fulfilled. It must be 100 per cent fulfilled. If anyone needs more documentation on this last point I will be glad to provide.
    "...and the truth will set you free."--Jesus Christ
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