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  • Cross within a circle

    The thread concerning the discussion of the cross within a circle has become very long so I am starting a new thread to continue the discussion. Link to page six of original thread
    Old Shepherd wrote
    Both your links are for different pages at the same web site, so that is only one source.
    So I will attempt to do a better job concerning this issue.

    The symbol of the "Cross" and/or the "Cross within a circle" and/ or the "Cross and a circle", indicating the secret knowledge of the Precession of the Equinoxes, has been handed down to us in a multitude of forms.

    These include for example: the Ankh, the Shen, Stone Henge, the Sun Wheel, Stone Circles, Standing Stones, the Celtic Cross, the Christian Cross, the Knights Templar Cross, the Market Cross, the Union Jack, the Hot Cross Bun, and even the Direction Indicator on a Map. Readers will no doubt add hundreds more to this list!
    Above quote from Ancient Egyptians and the Constellations: Part 5
    Sandy

  • #2
    Symbolism of the Circle At this site you will see examples of Circular Halo and Cruciform Halo.


    The Stones Give Their Testimony
    You will find at the above site an artifact unearthed in the holy of holies of the pagan temple in the Canaanite city of Hazor/Hatzor, in northern Israel, that dates to 1400 years before the time of Christ. It is described as follows:
    • "a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center"

    There source is the University of Illinois, Religious Studies, Hazor
    This site also shows other very good examples.

    Here is another link from the same site
    THE MONSTRANCE and the WAFER GOD
    Sandy

    Comment


    • #3
      Like I said what is that thing on your head??????????????


      Thanks for the links Sandy


      Shalom
      May YHWH have mercy on us all!

      Comment


      • #4
        Sandy,"
        "Old Shepherd, you consistantly accuse others of putting forth dog-puke and lying when they present something you disagree with.?

        It's not whether I agree or disagree but whether or not the information can be verified in a reputable, authoritative source. Just because something is posted on Joe Dipstick's Christian hating, dog puke, website does not make it true. And I have consistently proved that. See my response below to the pig farmer.

        "But you are no better than those you accuse. You have accused me of evasion?

        That's right I did, because you were evasive. If you can't stand the heat Missy get out of the kitchen. You quoted my post,
        And as I suspected you want to criticize the N.T., and its alleged errors, but suddenly change the subject, when confronted with the same type of problems in the Tanakh.
        "which is an out right lie. It seems this is a tactic on your part to discredit the person you are pointing the finger at.

        You wrote on the CRUCIFIED SAVIOUR thread titled If any of this is false, don't blame me, I'm only the messenger!


        Yes I did title my earlier post, "If any of this is false, don't blame me, I'm only the messenger!" I was being sarcastic, because in your post that I was responding to you said
        "As to whether each of these sixteen were actually crucified I do not know. . .I make no claims concerning any of this. It is up to the reader to verify, believe or disbelieve."
        In all fairness, if we are going to hint, allege, suggest, and imply that some or all of the New Testament is of pagan origin because it might be similar to some unverified, undocumented information we found in some trash book or online then lets not stop there lets look at how the entire Bible, all the events and characters, Old Testament and New, are similar to pagan myths and legends.
        This post dealt with the dog puke idea that all or most of the N.T. was "pagan" because it was supposedly copied from earlier pagan myths and legends, based not on any proof but so-called similarities. Most people who believe this dog puke stick their heads in the sand and ignore the fact that much of the O.T. is also similar to older pagan myths and legends and I documented specific examples and gave sources.

        The later post concerned not alleged outside similarities but supposed internal errors and contradictions. A similarity is not an error and a contradiction is not a similarity. Two different subjects! And yes you did respond to the previous post by saying,
        Thank you for the interesting post. I am familiar with some of these, but not all.

        I do not know about others here, but for me personally such things are disturbing. That is why earlier this year I started an Egroup called Are We Ostriches?
        What the h*ll kind of response is that? You made a point of condemning the N.T. and Christians because they are all supposedly pagan but all you can say about the pagan similarities in the O.T. is, "such things are disturbing.?When you were up there on your high horse attacking the N.T. and Christianity, why were you ignoring the O.T.? And while you did find the so-called O.T. pagan similarities "disturbing" before, I later asked you for specific examples of "errors and contradictions" in the N.T. and you did not respond, you evaded, you changed the subject! An earlier response to a completely different question does not answer this question.

        As you said Sandy, "Now who is the liar?"
        Last edited by OldShepherd; 08-09-2001, 10:39 PM.
        Nullus Frigidus Auxilium Gratia
        Zaqunra'ahyahuw

        Comment


        • #5
          Old Shepherd
          I don't know why you placed this reply on this thread.

          I have answered it on the thread from which you are quoting me.
          Click here for my reply
          Sandy

          Comment


          • #6
            Sandy,

            ،°Symbolism of the Circle At this site you will see examples of Circular Halo and Cruciform Halo.

            This is a nice site. It is a webpage for a college course in art and mathematics but other than showing a few pictures with haloes, has absolutely nothing to do with this topic.

            This is quoted from your ،°The Stones Give their Testimony،± link. The link is,

            http://www.aloha.net/~miksch/verita.htm

            ،°Then looking closer you will see that she clutches in her arms the sun, probably symbolizing that the Truth will be revealed in time, by the light of day.،±

            Mikey Scheifler who maintains this site does not cite any source identifying the object in the statue،¯s arms as the sun or anything else. It is similar in appearance to some sun symbols. Then Mikey further guesses what that probably symbolizes،± Well, all you brainless scarecrows can lap up this dog puke if you want to but not me, because in other posts, links below, I proved where virtually every statement on one page of Mikey،¯s site was nothing but lies. Also the next statement, below, about Constantine, from this page is a lie.

            http://www.tzaddikim.org/forum/showt...9&pagenumber=3

            http://www.tzaddikim.org/forum/showt...5&pagenumber=4

            http://www.tzaddikim.org/forum/showt...5&pagenumber=5

            ،°The Roman Catholic Church, with the assistance of Caesar, (Constantine) changed the day of worship from Sabbath to the Sun Day.،±

            According to two contemporary historians Eusebius and Lactantius, Constantine was a Christian, not a sun worshipper. Here are references to real historical accounts from the early church, all of which document that the church worshipped on Sunday from the very first.

            74 AD (250 years before Constantine) The Letter of Barnabas (Letter of Barnabas 15:6-8).

            90AD (230 years before Constantine) DIDACHE: (Constitutions of the Holy Apostles, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 7, pg. 423, 449, 471)

            107AD (210 years before Constantine) IGNATIUS (John،¯s disciple): Epistle to the Magnesians, chp 9. Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 62-63.)

            110AD (210 years before Constantine) Pliny: (The covenantial Sabbath, Francis Nigel Lee, Pg 242)

            130AD (200 years before Constantine) BARNABAS: (15:8f, The Epistle of Barnabas, 100 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, pg. 147)

            150AD (170 years before Constantine) EPISTLE OF THE APOSTLES.- (18)1

            150AD (170 years before Constantine) JUSTIN: ...(Dialogue With Trypho the Jew, 150-165 AD, Ante-Nicene Fathers , vol. 1, page 206, 207) (First apology of Justin, Ch 68)

            200AD (120 Years before Constantine) TERTULLIAN: (An Answer to the Jews 2:10; 4:1, Ante-Nicene Fathers Vol. 3, page 153) (To the Nations 1: 133) (On Idolatry, 14:6)4

            220AD (100 years before Constantine) ORIGEN " (Homil. 23 in Numeros 4, PG 12:749) (Commentary on John 2:28).

            225 AD (100 years before Constantine) The Didascalia "" (Didascalia 2).

            300AD (Twenty years before Constantine،¯s edict.) EUSEBIUS: (The historian) "They did not, therefore, regard circumcision, nor observe the Sabbath neither do we; ،¦ because such things as these do not belong to Christians" (Ecc. Hist., Book 1, Ch. 4)

            "They [the early saints of the Old Testament] did not care about circumcision of the body, neither do we [Christians]. They did not care about observing sabbaths, nor do we. They did not avoid certain kinds of food, neither did they regard the other distinctions which Moses first delivered to their posterity to be observed as symbols; nor do Christians of the present day do such things" (Church History 1:4:8).

            ،°There source is the University of Illinois, Religious Studies, Hazor،±

            http://www.relst.uiuc.edu/courses/10...es/page15.html

            ،°You will find at the above site an artifact unearthed in the holy of holies of the pagan temple in the Canaanite city of Hazor/Hatzor, in northern Israel, that dates to 1400 years before the time of Christ. It is described as follows:
            "a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center"،±

            The words ،°in the holy of holies of the pagan temple،± are a lie, the source quoted does not state that. The UI source only states, ،°a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center،±

            ،°This site also shows other very good examples.،±

            Of what? Pictures of pagan carvings and statues, alone, do not prove diddly squat!

            ،±Here is another link from the same site

            THE MONSTRANCE and the WAFER GOD
            ،± http://www.aloha.net/~miksch/monstr.htm

            What has been posted so far are several links to one web page, by one person, that I have proved is full of lies.

            As I pointed out to the pig farmer on his earlier post. At the bottom of the pages you linked, is a very detailed refutation of virtually everything at this site. Mikey Scheifler is so arrogant that he has linked to this thorough documented proof of his lies and half truths and he has not even changed things which have been proven to be lies. He knows that there are many mindless scarecrows out there to lap up everything he says regardless how stupid.

            Throughout this dog puke web site Mikey continually insists, without any proof whatsoever, that because some of the implements used by the Catholic church are similar to ancient pagan artifacts that they are the same. Below is part of the refutation from Mikey،¯s page citing a documented study which show that to be nonsense.

            Just because something is similar to something else does not prove that they have any relationship at all. For example, there is a living creature is Australia which has a beak like a duck, it has webbed feet and swims in the water like a duck, and even lays eggs like a duck. But it is not even a bird or a fowl but a four footed animal called a Platypus. Although they have several features in common they are certainly not related to each other in any way. Virtually every wheel ever made is round and has spokes going from the center to the outside. Does that mean that every time any person in history made a wheel they were making a sun symbol? There ain،¯t no other way to make a wheel!

            http://www.cathinsight.com/apologeti.../sunbursts.htm
            Archaeologist David L. Clarke . . . has suggested that trait list comparisons can be used to trace population movements only when certain requirements of the data are met. The traits must be specifically the same, not just vaguely similar. The traits being compared cannot be isolated behaviors. They must be part of entire complexes of traits, all of which are reflected in the supposed source and immigrant populations. The traits must co-occur repeatedly, both physically and chronologically. The similarities must be so complete that the likelihood that they resulted from coincidentally parallel development or functional necessity would be minimal.
            For example, a simple trait like circumcision, practiced by Jews as well as the Inca, does not, by itself, necessarily prove anything. The cultural / religious context and meaning of the practice in the two groups turns out to be entirely different. It [circumcision] is such a general trait and so many people all over the world practice it that we would quickly run out of Lost Tribes if we tried to trace them to all world cultures that circumcised their male infants.
            Archeologist John Rowe . . . performed a wonderful exercise that shows the inadequacy of trait list comparisons. He compiled a list of sixty practices and artifacts held in common by ancient South American civilizations and the kingdoms of Europe before the Middle Ages. Some of the common traits include animal sacrifice, belief in mythically combined animals, sister marriage, cubical dice, copper tweezers, and eunuchs. Yet there was no known contact between these cultures separated by thousands of miles of land and ocean.

            (Kenneth L. Feder, Frauds, Myths, and Mysteries: Science and Pseudoscience in Archaeology, 3rd edition [Mountain View, CA: Mayfield, 1999], pp.86-89; bold print added.)

            What does this teach us? Mere similarities of traits are not sufficient to establish connection.

            And since this web page that you and Don both linked to expends a lot of time and energy trying to prove that every circle-cross is directly derived from a pagan sun god image. I have asked this question several times and no one has answered. The letter Teth in the Paleo-Hebrew alphabet was a circle-cross. Does that mean that every time Moses, Joshua, Isaiah, and all the other O.T. prophets wrote the letter Teth they were honoring a pagan sun god?

            http://www.therain.org/know/palheb.html

            http://www.geocities.com/ancient_hebrew/4_chart.html

            http://www.crowndiamond.org/bhm/abook16.html

            http://www.crowndiamond.org/bhm/abook18.html
            Nullus Frigidus Auxilium Gratia
            Zaqunra'ahyahuw

            Comment


            • #7
              Old Shepherd wrote:
              You will find at the above site an artifact unearthed in the holy of holies of the pagan temple in the Canaanite city of Hazor/Hatzor, in northern Israel, that dates to 1400 years before the time of Christ. It is described as follows:
              "a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center"،±

              The words ،°in the holy of holies of the pagan temple،± are a lie, the source quoted does not state that. The UI source only states, ،°a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center،±
              First of all Old Shepherd your links are no good. Secondly, I think we will take a closer look so everyone can see you are not always right.

              If you click on this link
              The Stones Give Their Testimony and scroll down a short way you will see the heading of "The Stones Give their Testimony" which goes on to say:

              On the right is an artifact unearthed in the holy of holies of the pagan temple in the Canaanite city of Hazor/Hatzor, in northern Israel, that dates to 1400 years before the time of Christ. It is described as follows:
              • "a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center"
              The person writing this article clearly states his source as
              The University of Illinois, Religious Studies, Hazor

              I am showing here what is written on the page from the University of Illinois, but unable to include the images. By going to the link above you can click on the thumbnail images, which will give you a much larger image along with a short description.

              The following is the text from the Universities web page.
              Hazor Late Bronze Age

              Hazor was the largest city in the land of Canaan during the Middle and Late Bronze Ages. Its rampart enclosed an area of 180 acres. Hazor is mentioned in Egyptian sources and also occurs in the Mari letters. The Amarna Letters indicate that Hazor was an Egyptian vassal during the Late Bronze, as were all the other cities of Canaan. But the king of Hazor refers to himself as king in his letters to the pharaoh, unlike most of the other Canaanite rulers.

              A number of important finds have come to light from the Late Bronze Age. At the northern tip of the Lower City, a series of superimposed temples were found. The earliest one was built during the MB III and was basically a two-room temple. The second temple was a rebuild along the same lines as the first one. But in the 14th c. (LB II) the temple was redesigned and became a tripartite temple. The three rooms were: (1) the porch, which acted as the entrance into the temple. (2) the hall, whose function is not entirely clear and (3) the Holy of Holies.

              The temple was renovated during the 13th century, but very few changes were made.

              The temple porch entrance was flanked by a pair of stone lions, one of which can be seen here. In the 13th century, the entrance to the hall from the porch was flanked by two freestanding pillars, parallel to the pillars Yachin and Boaz that flanked the entrance to Solomon’s temple.

              The Holy of Holies was lined with a series of basalt orthostats. At the back of the room was a rectangular niche, presumably the location for the cult statue. From its final period it still held a large number of its cultic paraphernalia when excavated. Among the objects found there are the following: (1) a basalt offering table, pillar-shaped, with a carved symbol of the storm god Baal on its side. That symbol was a circle with a cross in the center; (2) A large basalt basin with a running spiral design around its perimeter; (3) a wide offering table with various side indentations; and (4) a votive statue of a seated figure.

              Note: To view the particular object in question click here

              In Area C, on the southwestern corner of the lower city, a small single-room temple was found. It had a niche on in the wall opposite the entrance in which were a row of small stelae, one in the center carved with two arms reaching up toward a crescent moon. To the left of the stelae was a basalt statuette of a seated male figure.

              In recent years, the Hazor excavations have resumed, and Amnon Ben-Tor has been uncovering the Late Bronze palace on the upper city. The entrance and a large open court have been discovered. Two large basalt pillar bases flank the entrance. In the court was found a podium which clearly held the king’s throne. Marks on the podium show where the throne was placed on it.
              It is clear that the cross within a circle is a very old symbol used by various peoples, and according to the Program for the Study of Religion at the University of Illinois it was at one time even the symbol for the storm god Baal.
              Sandy

              Comment


              • #8
                Constantine worshipped Mithras and the so-called Early church fathers were Sunworship

                quote:

                ،°The Roman Catholic Church, with the assistance of Caesar, (Constantine) changed the day of worship from Sabbath to the Sun Day.،±


                According to two contemporary historians Eusebius and Lactantius, Constantine was a Christian, not a sun worshipper. Here are references to real historical accounts from the early church, all of which document that the church worshipped on Sunday from the very first.

                ==============================================


                OUTLINE OF CONSTANTINE AND CHRISTIANITY

                But it was especially in the western part of the empire that the
                veneration of Mithras predominated. Would it not be possible to gather all the different nationalities around his altars? Could not Sol Deus Invictus, to whom even Constantine dedicated his coins for a Long time, or Sol Mithras Deus Invictus, venerated by Diocletian and Galerius, become the supreme god of the empire?

                Constantine may have pondered over this. Nor had he absolutely rejected the thought even after a miraculous event had strongly influenced him in favour of the God of the
                Christians.



                Eusebius (Vita Const., I, xxvi-xxxi). He saw, according to the one in a dream, according to the other in a vision, a heavenly manifestation, a brilliant light in which he believed he descried the cross or the monogram of Christ. Strengthened by this apparition, he advanced courageously to battle, defeated his rival and won the supreme power. It was the result that gave to this vision its full importance, for when the emperor afterwards reflected on the event it was clear to him that the cross bore the inscription: HOC VINCES (in this sign wilt thou conquer).

                A monogram combining the first letters, X and P, of the name of Christ (CHRISTOS), a form that cannot be proved to have been used by Christians before, was made one of the tokens of the standard and placed upon the Labarum (q. v.). In addition, this ensign was placed in the hand of a statue of the emperor at Rome, the pedestal of which bore the inscription:
                "By the aid of this salutary token of strength I have freed my city from the yoke of tyranny and restored to the Roman Senate and People the ancient splendour and glory." Directly after his victory Constantine granted tolerance to the Christians and next year (313) took a further step in their favour.

                In 313 Licinius and he issued at Milan the famous joint edict of tolerance.

                For a time it seemed as if merely tolerance and equality were to prevail. Constantine showed equal favour to both religious. As pontifex maximus he watched over the heathen worship and protected its rights.

                Constantine moreover placed Sunday under the protection of the State. It is true that the believers in Mithras also observed Sunday as well as Christmas. Consequently Constantine speaks not of the day of the Lord, but of the everlasting day of the sun.

                According to Eusebius, the heathen also were obliged on this day to go out into the open country and together raise their hands and repeat the prayer already mentioned, a prayer without any marked Christian character (Vita Const., IV, xx)


                http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04295c.htm


                ----



                May YHWH have mercy on us all!

                Comment


                • #9
                  A so called Eary church Father speaks!

                  Chapter XII.196 -The Charge of Worshipping a Cross. The Heathens Themselves Made Much of Crosses in Sacred Things; Nay, Their Very Idols Were Formed on a Crucial Frame.

                  As for him who affirms that we are "the priesthood of a cross,"197 we shall claim him198 as our co-religionist.

                  199 A cross is, in its material, a sign of wood; amongst yourselves also the object of worship is a wooden figure. Only, whilst with you the figure is a human one, with us the wood is its own figure. Never mind200 for the present what is the shape, provided the material is the same: the form, too, is of no importance,201 if so be it be the actual body of a god.

                  If, however, there arises a question of difference on this point what, (let me ask, ) is the difference between the Athenian Pallas, or the Pharian Ceres, and wood formed into a cross,202 when each is represented by a rough stock, without form, and by the merest rudiment of a statue203 of unformed wood?

                  Every piece of timber204 which is fixed in the ground in an erect position is a part of a cross, and indeed the greater portion of its mass. But an entire cross is attributed to us, with its transverse beam,205 of course, and its projecting seat.

                  Now you have the less to excuse you, for you dedicate to religion only a mutilated imperfect piece of wood, while others consecrate to the sacred purpose a complete structure. The truth, however, after all is, that your religion is all cross, as I shall show. You are indeed unaware that your gods in their origin have proceeded from this hated cross.206 Now, every image, whether carved out of wood or stone, or molten in metal, or produced out of any other richer material, must needs have had plastic hands engaged in its formation. Well, then, this modeller,207 before he did anything else,208 hit upon the form of a wooden cross, because even our own body assumes as its natural position the latent and concealed outline of a cross. Since the head rises upwards, and the back takes a straight direction, and the shoulders project laterally, if you simply place a man with his arms and hands outstretched, you will make the general outline of a cross. Starting, then, from this rudimental form and prop,209 as it were, he applies a covering of clay, and so gradually completes the limbs, and forms the body, and covers the cross within with the shape which he meant to impress upon the clay; then from this design, with the help of compasses and leaden moulds, he has got all ready for his image which is to be brought out into marble, or clay, or whatever the material be of which he has determined to make his god. (This, then, is the process: ) after the cross-shaped frame, the clay; after the clay, the god.

                  In a well-understood routine, the cross passes into a god through the clayey medium. The cross then you consecrate, and from it the consecrated (deity) begins to derive his origin.210 By way of example, let us take the case of a tree which grows up into a system of branches and foliage, and is a reproduction of its own kind, whether it springs from the kernel of an olive, or the stone of a peach, or a grain of pepper which has been duly tempered under ground.

                  Now, if you transplant it, or take a cutting off its branches for another plant, to what will you attribute what is produced by the propagation? Will it not be to the grain, or the stone, or the kernel? Because, as the third stage is attributable to the second, and the second in like manner to the first, so the third will have to be referred to the first, through the second as the mean. We need not stay any longer in the discussion of this point, since by a natural law every kind of produce throughout nature refers back its growth to its original source; and just as the product is comprised in its primal cause, so does that cause agree in character with the thing produced. Since, then, in the production of your gods, you worship the cross which originates them, here will be the original kernel and grain, from which are propagated the wooden materials of your idolatrous images. Examples are not far to seek.

                  Your victories you celebrate with religious ceremony211 as deities; and they are the more august in proportion to the joy they bring you. The frames on which you hang up your trophies must be crosses: these are, as it were, the very core of your pageants.212 Thus, in your victories, the religion of your camp makes even crosses objects of worship; your standards it adores, your standards are the sanction of its oaths; your standards it prefers before Jupiter himself, But all that parade213 of images, and that display of pure gold, are (as so many) necklaces of the crosses. in like manner also, in the banners and ensigns, which your soldiers guard with no less sacred care, you have the streamers (and) vestments of your crosses. You are ashamed, I suppose, to worship unadorned and simple crosses.

                  http://www.ccel.org/fathers2/ANF-03/...m#P1436_556229

                  May YHWH have mercy on us all!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    TERTULLIAN:

                    Chapter XIII.214 -The Charge of Worshipping the Sun Met by a Retort.

                    Others, with greater regard to good manners, it must be confessed, suppose that the sun is the god of the Christians, because it is a well-known fact that we pray towards the east, or because we make Sunday a day of festivity. What then? Do you do less than this? Do not many among you, with an affectation of sometimes worshipping the heavenly bodies likewise, move your lips in the direction of the sunrise? It is you, at all events, who have even admitted the sun into the calendar of the week; and you have selected its day,215 in preference to the preceding day216 as the most suitable in the week217 for either an entire abstinence from the bath, or for its postponement until the evening, or for taking rest and for banqueting. By resorting to these customs, you deliberately deviate from your own religious rites to those of strangers. For the Jewish feasts on the Sabbath and "the Purification,"218 and Jewish also are the ceremonies of the lamps,219 and the fasts of unleavened bread, and the "littoral prayers,"220 all which institutions and practices are of course foreign from your gods. Wherefore, that I may return from this digression, you who reproach us with the sun and Sunday should consider your proximity to us. We are not far off from your Saturn and your days of rest.

                    May YHWH have mercy on us all!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      For over three hundred years the rulers of the Roman Empire worshipped the god Mithras. Known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher, the veneration of this god began some 4000 years ago in Persia, where it was soon imbedded with Babylonian doctrines. The faith spread east through India to China, and reached west throughout the entire length of the Roman frontier; from Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and from Spain to the Black Sea. Sites of Mithraic worship have been found in Britain, Italy, Romania, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Persia, Armenia, Syria, Israel, and North Africa.

                      In Rome, more than a hundred inscriptions dedicated to Mithras have been found, in addition to 75 sculpture fragments, and a series of Mithraic temples situated in all parts of the city.

                      One of the largest Mithraic temples built in Italy now lies under the present site of the Church of St. Clemente, near the Colosseum in Rome.

                      The widespread popularity and appeal of Mithraism as the final and most refined form of pre-Christian paganism was discussed by the Greek historian Herodotus, the Greek biographer Plutarch, the neoplatonic philosopher Porphyry, the Gnostic heretic Origen, and St. Jerome the church Father. Mithraism was quite often noted by many historians for its many astonishing similarities to Christianity.

                      http://www.tzaddikim.org/forum/newre...y&threadid=114
                      May YHWH have mercy on us all!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Cross forms were used as symbols, religous or otherwise, long before the Christian era in
                        almost every part of the world.

                        This symbol had a wide diffusion before the Christian era in Europe, Asia and America, and is commonly thought to have been an emblem of the Sun or Fire, and hence
                        of life.


                        (WORLD BOOK ENCYCLOPEDIA vol.7)


                        The cross in varying forms has been used almost universally as a symbol and ornament.

                        It has represented variously the Sun or the god of the sky, the four parts of the world, the four main winds that bring rain, the four elements.

                        The simple cross (+). Widely and continuously depicted in both the old world and the new world, dates from Paleolithic times........


                        (THE ENCYCLOPEDIA AMERICANA vol 8)


                        In The Egyptian churches the cross was a pagan symbol of life borrowed by the Christians and interpreted in the pagan manner.

                        (ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITTANNICA. vol.14)

                        The age old fertility symbol...especially in Egypt, as either an ordinary cross, or better known in the form of the crux ansata, the Egyptian ankh sometimes called the Tau cross With the serpent in the Ancient Monuments is very often found associated the "CROSS".

                        The Serpent upon a "CROSS" was an Egyptian Standard.

                        It occurs repeatedly upon the Grand Stair case of the Temple of Osiris at philae; and on the pyramid of Ghizeh are represented two kneeling figures erecting a "CROSS", on the top of which is a serpent erect.

                        The 'CRUX ANSATA' was a "CROSS with a coiled Serpent above it; and it is perhaps the most common of all emblems on the Egyptian Monuments, was carried in the hand of
                        almost every figure of a Deity or a Priest.


                        A "CROSS" like a Teutonic or Maltese one, formed by four curved lines within a circle, is also common on the Monuments and is a symbol for the SUN of which you can find still
                        today in almost any dictionary.


                        http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/291.html

                        http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/268.html


                        As the single "TAU" represents the ONE GOD, so, no doubt, the Triple TAU was meant to represent the "TRINITY" of his attributes.

                        Among the Druids the TAU was a sacred symbol.
                        Divesting a tree of part of its branches, they formed it in the shape of a "TAU CROSS”, preserved it carefully. And consecrated it with solemn ceremonies.

                        On the tree they cut deeply the word "THAU", by which they meant GOD. On the right arm of the "CROSS", they inscribed the word /name "HESUS",on the left "BELEN or BELENUS",and on the middle of the trunk "THARANIS".

                        "THIS REPRESENTS 'THE SACRED TRIAD'"!

                        It is certain that the Indians, Egyptian, and Arabians paid veneration to the sign of the "CROSS" thousand of years before the coming of the MESSIAH. Everywhere it was a sacred symbol.

                        http://www.graftedin2torah.org/Ap/Identity.htm


                        The Hindus and the Celtic Druids built many of their Temples in the form of a "CROSS", as ruins still remaining clearly show, and particularly the ancient Druidical Temple at Classerniss in the island of Lewis in Scotland. Just like the many CHRISTIAN Roman
                        Catholic churches today are built in this shape.


                        May YHWH have mercy on us all!

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                        • #13
                          Sorry I messed up!

                          This link goes with this post:

                          http://www.innvista.com/scriptures/compare/mithra.htm


                          For over three hundred years the rulers of the Roman Empire worshipped the god Mithras. Known throughout Europe and Asia by the names Mithra, Mitra, Meitros, Mihr, Mehr, and Meher, the veneration of this god began some 4000 years ago in Persia, where it was soon imbedded with Babylonian doctrines. The faith spread east through India to China, and reached west throughout the entire length of the Roman frontier; from Scotland to the Sahara Desert, and from Spain to the Black Sea. Sites of Mithraic worship have been found in Britain, Italy, Romania, Germany, Hungary, Bulgaria, Turkey, Persia, Armenia, Syria, Israel, and North Africa.

                          In Rome, more than a hundred inscriptions dedicated to Mithras have been found, in addition to 75 sculpture fragments, and a series of Mithraic temples situated in all parts of the city.

                          One of the largest Mithraic temples built in Italy now lies under the present site of the Church of St. Clemente, near the Colosseum in Rome.

                          The widespread popularity and appeal of Mithraism as the final and most refined form of pre-Christian paganism was discussed by the Greek historian Herodotus, the Greek biographer Plutarch, the neoplatonic philosopher Porphyry, the Gnostic heretic Origen, and St. Jerome the church Father. Mithraism was quite often noted by many historians for its many astonishing similarities to Christianity.

                          May YHWH have mercy on us all!

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                          • #14
                            P.S.


                            The only DOG PUKE around here is what comes out of the JESUIT's mouth!
                            May YHWH have mercy on us all!

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                            • #15
                              Don,

                              Here is what the pig farmer claims Eusebius said about the conversion of Constantine.

                              "Eusebius (Vita Const., I, xxvi-xxxi). He saw, according to the one in a dream, according to the other in a vision, a heavenly manifestation, a brilliant light in which he believed he descried the cross or the monogram of Christ. Strengthened by this apparition, he advanced courageously to battle, defeated his rival and won the supreme power. It was the result that gave to this vision its full importance, for when the emperor afterwards reflected on the event it was clear to him that the cross bore the inscription: HOC VINCES (in this sign wilt thou conquer).

                              A monogram combining the first letters, X and P, of the name of Christ (CHRISTOS), a form that cannot be proved to have been used by Christians before, was made one of the tokens of the standard and placed upon the Labarum (q. v.). In addition, this ensign was placed in the hand of a statue of the emperor at Rome, the pedestal of which bore the inscription:

                              "By the aid of this salutary token of strength I have freed my city from the yoke of tyranny and restored to the Roman Senate and People the ancient splendour and glory." Directly after his victory Constantine granted tolerance to the Christians and next year (313) took a further step in their favour.


                              Here is the real history of Eusebius, as found in the files of Fordham University. According to a sworn statement to Eusebius, Constantine saw a cross and that was the emblem he made for his armies to follow not a chi-rho. Also, Eusebius verifies that Constantine was a Christian not a sun-worshipper.

                              http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/basis...nstantine.html
                              CHAPTER XXVI: How he resolved to deliver Rome from Maxentius.

                              While, therefore, he regarded the entire world as one immense body, and perceived that the head of it all, the royal city of the Roman empire, was bowed down by the weight of a tyrannous oppression; at first he had left the task of liberation to those who governed the other divisions of the empire, as being his superiors in point of age. But when none of these proved able to afford relief, and those who had attempted it had experienced a disastrous termination of their enterprise, (1) he said that life was without enjoyment to him as long as he saw the imperial city thus afflicted, and prepared himself for the overthrowal of the tyranny.

                              CHAPTER XXVII: That after reflecting on the Dawn fall of those who had worshiped Idols, he made Choice of Christianity.

                              Being convinced, however, that he needed some more powerful aid than his military forces could afford him, on account of the wicked and magical enchantments which were so diligently practiced by the tyrant, (1) he sought Divine assistance, deeming the possession of arms and a numerous soldiery of secondary importance, but believing the co-operating power of Deity invincible and not to be shaken. He considered, therefore, on what God he might rely for protection and assistance. While engaged in this enquiry, the thought occurred to him, that, of the many emperors who had preceded him, those who had rested their hopes in a multitude of gods, and served them with sacrifices and offerings, had in the first place been deceived by flattering predictions, and oracles which promised them all prosperity, and at last had met with an unhappy end, while not one of their gods had stood by to warn them of the impending wrath of heaven; while one alone who had pursued an entirely opposite course, who had condemned their error, and honored the one Supreme God during his whole life, had formalized him to be the Saviour and Protector of his empire, and the Giver of every good thing. Reflecting on this, and well weighing the fact that they who had trusted in many gods had also fallen by manifold forms of death, without leaving behind them either family or offspring, stock, name, or memorial among men: while the God of his father had given to him, on the other hand, manifestations of his power and very many tokens: and considering farther that those who had already taken arms against the tyrant, and had marched to the battle-field under the protection of a multitude of gods, had met with a dishonorable end (for one of them (2) had shamefully retreated from the contest without a blow, and the other, (3) being slain in the midst of his own troops, became, as it were, the mere sport of death (4) ); reviewing, I say, all these considerations, he judged it to be folly indeed to join in the idle worship of those who were no gods, and, after such convincing evidence, to err from the truth; and therefore felt it incumbent on him to honor his father's God alone.

                              CHAPTER XXVIII: How, while he was praying, God sent him a Vision of a Cross of Light in the Heavens at Mid-day, with an Inscription admonishing him to conquer by that.

                              ACCORDINGLY he called on him with earnest prayer and supplications that he would reveal to him who he was, and stretch forth his right hand to help him in his present difficulties. And while he was thus praying with fervent entreaty, a most marvelous sign appeared to him from heaven, the account of which it might have been hard to believe had it been related by any other person. But since the victorious emperor himself long afterwards declared it to the writer of this history, (1) when he was honored with his acquaintance and society, and confirmed his statement by an oath, who could hesitate to accredit the relation, especially since the testimony of after- time has established its truth? He said that about noon, when the day was already beginning to decline, he saw with his own eyes the trophy of a cross of light in the heavens, above the sun, and bearing the inscription, CONQUER BY THIS. At this sight he himself was struck with amazement, and his whole army also, which followed him on this expedition, and witnessed the miracle. (2)

                              CHAPTER XXIX: How the Christ of God appeared to him in his Sleep, and commanded him to use in his Wars a Standard made in the Form of the Cross.

                              He said, moreover, that he doubted within himself what the import of this apparition could be. And while he continued to ponder and reason on its meaning, night suddenly came on; then in his sleep the Christ of God appeared to him with the same sign which he had seen in the heavens, and commanded him to make a likeness of that sign which he had seen in the heavens, and to use it as a safeguard in all engagements with his enemies.

                              CHAPTER XXX: The Making of the Standard of the Cross.

                              AT dawn of day he arose, and communicated the marvel to his friends: and then, calling together the workers in gold and precious stones, he sat in the midst of them, and described to them the figure of the sign he had seen, bidding them represent it in gold and precious stones. And this representation I myself have had an opportunity of seeing.

                              CHAPTER XXXI: A Description of the Standard of the Cross, which the Romans now call the Labarum. (1)

                              Now it was made in the following manner. A long spear, overlaid with gold, formed the figure of the cross by means of a transverse bar laid over it. On the top of the whole was fixed a wreath of gold and precious stones; and within this, (2) the symbol of the Saviour's name, two letters indicating the name of Christ by means of its initial characters, the letter P being intersected by X in its centre: (3) and these letters the emperor was in the habit of wearing on his helmet at a later period. . . This banner was of a square form, and the upright staff, whose lower section was of great length,(5) bore a golden half-length portrait (6) of the pious emperor and his children on its upper part, beneath the trophy of the cross, and immediately above the embroidered banner.

                              The emperor constantly made use of this sign of salvation as a safeguard against every adverse and hostile power, and commanded that others similar to it should be carried at the head of all his armies.

                              CHAPTER XXXII: How Constantine received Instruction, and read the Sacred Scriptures.

                              These things were done shortly afterwards. But at the time above specified, being struck with amazement at the extraordinary vision, and resolving to worship no other God save Him who had appeared to him, he sent for those who were acquainted with the mysteries of His doctrines, and enquired who that God was, and what was intended by the sign of the vision he had seen. They affirmed that He was God, the only begotten Son of the one and only God: that the sign which had appeared was the symbol of immortality, (1) and the trophy of that victory over death which He had gained in time past when sojourning on earth. They taught him also the causes of His advent, and explained to him the true account of His incarnation. Thus he was instructed in these matters, and was impressed with wonder at the divine manifestation which had been presented to his sight. Comparing, therefore, the heavenly vision with the interpretation given, he found his judgment confirmed; and, in the persuasion that the knowledge of these things had been imparted to him by Divine teaching, he determined thenceforth to devote himself to the reading of the Inspired writings.

                              Moreover, he made the priests of God his counselors, and deemed it incumbent on him to honor the God who had appeared to him with all devotion. And after this, being fortified by well-grounded hopes in Him, he hastened to quench the threatening fire of tyranny.

                              Nullus Frigidus Auxilium Gratia
                              Zaqunra'ahyahuw

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