Shabbat Shalom Everyone, I would like to start this Thread with something that I have just sent to Hyssop. He is in an encounter with someone that he is trying to convince that their understanding of Paul is not correct with their belief of "substitutionalism." Most take The Apostle Paul's words and twist/distort them into a FALSE gospel, believing that "God" required "Jesus" to suffer and die in their place, thus satisfying the penalty of their sin. The following should show that Elohim is not in the business of accepting the murder and death of the Innocent or Righteous, in the place of the wicked. It is an abomination for the Innocent and Righteous to suffer in the stead or place of the wicked.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Ken, here are some scriptures I use against substitutionalism. The gist of what they say is that Elohim has a Justice Standard, and in it, you do not punish the Innocent and Righteous in the place of the Wicked. It is AN Abomination to do so...to let the Righteous One suffer through the actions of the Unrighteous. Yeshua, being placed UPON the Cross, was made to STAND where He ought NOT, and this IS The Abomination of Desolation. To look at His suffering and death as some kind of means to satisfy Elohim's Justice, is delusional, and against The Scriptures:
Gen_18:23-25
(23) And Abraham drew near (to Yahweh) and said, Is it so? Will You cut off the righteous with the wicked?
(24) Perhaps there are fifty righteous within the city; is it so You will cut off and will not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous ones that are within it?
(25) Far be it from You to act in this way, to put to death the righteous with the wicked. Far be it from You. The Judge of all the earth, shall He not do right?
Deu_19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which Yahweh they Elohim giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
Deu_27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Pro_17:26 It is not right to punish a righteous man, nor is it holy to plot against righteous princes.
Exo_23:7 You shall keep far away from a false matter. And do not kill the Innocent and the Righteous; for I will not justify the wicked.
Pro_17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the Righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to Yahweh.
Deu_25:1 "If there is a dispute between men and they go to court, and the judges decide their case, and they shall justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,
Pro_6:16 These six things doth Yahweh hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:
Pro_6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
What Judas did and ALL sinners do is ABOMINABLE (Hand Yeshua over to suffer on the Cross and shed His Blood-Hebrews 6:6), and when we "see" this abomination, we are to repent, and FLEE from our sin):
Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the Innocent Blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Pro_11:1 A false balance is abomination to Yahweh: but a just weight is His delight.
Pro_20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto Yahweh; and a false balance is not good.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand
(The writer of Hebrews states the "holy place" is a symbol of this present age-Hebrews 9:8-9, so when Yeshua was LIFTED UP, and made to stand in the holy place/present age/outer tent, this is a place (on the Cross) where He should not have been made to stand-Mark 13:14).
Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: (And just what do those Mountains represent that we are to FLEE to-Psa 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains... Are we not to FLEE from our sin unto Elohim's RIGHTEOUSNESS when we SEE what our sin did to Yeshua...placed Him upon the Cross?
Luk 16:15 And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but Elohim knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men ("Jesus" supposedly dying in their stead) is abomination in the sight of Elohim.
Isa_53:8-10
(8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
(9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
(10) Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand. (These verses are used by substitutionalist to prove that Elohim's justice requires the innocent to suffer and die in the place of the wicked, and this is not how these Scriptures should be interpreted. Yahweh decided to allow Himself to suffer and die, so that sinners would be TURNED from ALL of their iniquities-Acts 3:26, by Him being made to into a sin offering. Elohim's PLAN is to REDEEM us OUT from sin, not to save us as we remain IN sin.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (The sinner is to die, not the Sinless One, according to Yahweh, especially not the Son for the sin of the father, or vice versa).
Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Hi Ken, here are some scriptures I use against substitutionalism. The gist of what they say is that Elohim has a Justice Standard, and in it, you do not punish the Innocent and Righteous in the place of the Wicked. It is AN Abomination to do so...to let the Righteous One suffer through the actions of the Unrighteous. Yeshua, being placed UPON the Cross, was made to STAND where He ought NOT, and this IS The Abomination of Desolation. To look at His suffering and death as some kind of means to satisfy Elohim's Justice, is delusional, and against The Scriptures:
Gen_18:23-25
(23) And Abraham drew near (to Yahweh) and said, Is it so? Will You cut off the righteous with the wicked?
(24) Perhaps there are fifty righteous within the city; is it so You will cut off and will not spare the place for the sake of the fifty righteous ones that are within it?
(25) Far be it from You to act in this way, to put to death the righteous with the wicked. Far be it from You. The Judge of all the earth, shall He not do right?
Deu_19:10 That innocent blood be not shed in thy land, which Yahweh they Elohim giveth thee for an inheritance, and so blood be upon thee.
Deu_27:25 Cursed be he that taketh reward to slay an innocent person. And all the people shall say, Amen.
Pro_17:26 It is not right to punish a righteous man, nor is it holy to plot against righteous princes.
Exo_23:7 You shall keep far away from a false matter. And do not kill the Innocent and the Righteous; for I will not justify the wicked.
Pro_17:15 He who justifies the wicked and he who condemns the Righteous, Both of them alike are an abomination to Yahweh.
Deu_25:1 "If there is a dispute between men and they go to court, and the judges decide their case, and they shall justify the righteous and condemn the wicked,
Pro_6:16 These six things doth Yahweh hate: yea, seven are an abomination unto Him:
Pro_6:17 A proud look, a lying tongue, and hands that shed innocent blood,
What Judas did and ALL sinners do is ABOMINABLE (Hand Yeshua over to suffer on the Cross and shed His Blood-Hebrews 6:6), and when we "see" this abomination, we are to repent, and FLEE from our sin):
Mat 27:3 Then Judas, which had betrayed Him, when he saw that He was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,
Mat 27:4 Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the Innocent Blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.
Mat 27:24 When Pilate saw that he could prevail nothing, but that rather a tumult was made, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this just person: see ye to it.
Dan 11:31 And arms shall stand on his part, and they shall pollute the sanctuary of strength, and shall take away the daily sacrifice, and they shall place the abomination that maketh desolate.
Pro_11:1 A false balance is abomination to Yahweh: but a just weight is His delight.
Pro_20:23 Divers weights are an abomination unto Yahweh; and a false balance is not good.
Mat 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

Mar 13:14 But when ye shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not, (let him that readeth understand,) then let them that be in Judaea flee to the mountains: (And just what do those Mountains represent that we are to FLEE to-Psa 36:6 Thy righteousness is like the great mountains... Are we not to FLEE from our sin unto Elohim's RIGHTEOUSNESS when we SEE what our sin did to Yeshua...placed Him upon the Cross?
Luk 16:15 And He said unto them, Ye are they which justify yourselves before men; but Elohim knoweth your hearts: for that which is highly esteemed among men ("Jesus" supposedly dying in their stead) is abomination in the sight of Elohim.
Isa_53:8-10
(8) He was taken from prison and from judgment: and who shall declare his generation? for he was cut off out of the land of the living: for the transgression of my people was he stricken.
(9) And he made his grave with the wicked, and with the rich in his death; because he had done no violence, neither was any deceit in his mouth.
(10) Yet it pleased Yahweh to bruise him; he hath put him to grief: when thou shalt make his soul an offering for sin, he shall see his seed, he shall prolong his days, and the pleasure of Yahweh shall prosper in his hand. (These verses are used by substitutionalist to prove that Elohim's justice requires the innocent to suffer and die in the place of the wicked, and this is not how these Scriptures should be interpreted. Yahweh decided to allow Himself to suffer and die, so that sinners would be TURNED from ALL of their iniquities-Acts 3:26, by Him being made to into a sin offering. Elohim's PLAN is to REDEEM us OUT from sin, not to save us as we remain IN sin.
Eze 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die. The son shall not bear the iniquity of the father, neither shall the father bear the iniquity of the son: the righteousness of the righteous shall be upon him, and the wickedness of the wicked shall be upon him. (The sinner is to die, not the Sinless One, according to Yahweh, especially not the Son for the sin of the father, or vice versa).
Blessings in The Name, ImAHebrew/Ken
Comment