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  • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
    Well Lucy, Eliyahu got it wrong, let's see if you follow in his footsteps. A Simple Question...

    Which of the following two statements is correct?

    1. Adam and Eve was created with a perfect, sinless nature?

    2. Adam and Eve was created with the exact same nature as you and me?

    Your choice Lucy, 1 or 2. Ken
    Well Ken, why don't ye show us a scripture of truth that says: Elohim created Adam and Eve in SIN?

    Comment


    • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
      Eliyahu, you just have a heart as hard as flint. The PURPOSE of dwelling FIRST in darkness was so that we could LEARN what to hate and LEARN what to love. You in your error just expect mankind to start walking in the spirit and not fulfilling the lust of the flesh by NEVER experiencing either. Adam's WORKS of his flesh manifested itself by transgressing a command of Elohim, and THIS was ALL according to the Plan of Elohim. If Adam somehow would have been able to be obedient and overcome his flesh without FIRST learning about good and evil, then Elohim's PLAN would have been thwarted. Plain and simple, Elohim CONSIGNED ALL (even Adam and Eve) to disobedience so that He could have mercy on ALL. Your belief that Adam's flesh was different than YOUR flesh is grossly in error, and I'm done trying to convince you for right now. Good night. Ken
      No Ken, I believe the scriptures, and ye should REPENT of your contradictions, instead of deflecting from them, and trying to justify it.

      Comment


      • Topic: The Created State Of Adam And Eve!

        Hi Lucy and EliYah,

        Anathema to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!

        When the resurrected Messiah Yahushua according to HIS great mercy and grace revealed HIMSELF to me in Numbers 19, I was astonished by the fulfillment of the Law. I mean, how could Moses write in such detail about future events some 1500 years before their time? Upon consideration, I concluded correctly that mankind was very predictable in his activity; otherwise, how could such amazing fulfillment take place.

        I went to bed wondering about the death, burial, and 3rd day resurrection of Messiah Yahushua, and when I awoke, my wondering continued. I told myself, if these things be true, then I should be able to open my bible and read that Messiah Yahushua was not taken to the High Priest when first arrested. When I read that Messiah was first taken to Annas who was a Chief Priest but not the High Priest that year, I was completely hooked.

        The spiritual fulfillment of the Law requires that we be under the tradition of Messiah Yahushua. This is primarily why I identify myself as a Pharisee. I myself am a believer in tradition, and the tradition of Messiah tells me that men and women are not free. They all are born with a tendency to sin, and this includes Adam and Eve. Both Adam and Eve were created flesh. If you should think about it and also put a couple of scriptures together, you should realize that Adam and Eve were created into a state of imperfect innocence. They were not guilty of any sin until they disobeyed YAHWEH ELOHIM, but there is absolutely no reason to imagine that they would not eventually sin because they were created flesh, and the Apostle Paul has this to say about flesh:

        Romans 8:5-8
        5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
        6 For to be fleshly minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
        7 Because the flesh mind is enmity against ELOHIM: for it is not subject to the law of ELOHIM, neither indeed can be.
        8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please ELOHIM.

        There is no doubt that Adam and Eve were created flesh. So, being in the flesh, there is no possibility that they could please ELOHIM through their obedience. They were created to sin.

        This is the true tradition. Say what you will and argue as you must, but there exists no other truthful explanation, I am,
        Sincerely, Latuwr
        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

        Comment


        • Originally posted by Spying View Post
          Topic: The Created State Of Adam And Eve!

          Hi Lucy and EliYah,

          Anathema to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!

          When the resurrected Messiah Yahushua according to HIS great mercy and grace revealed HIMSELF to me in Numbers 19, I was astonished by the fulfillment of the Law. I mean, how could Moses write in such detail about future events some 1500 years before their time? Upon consideration, I concluded correctly that mankind was very predictable in his activity; otherwise, how could such amazing fulfillment take place.

          I went to bed wondering about the death, burial, and 3rd day resurrection of Messiah Yahushua, and when I awoke, my wondering continued. I told myself, if these things be true, then I should be able to open my bible and read that Messiah Yahushua was not taken to the High Priest when first arrested. When I read that Messiah was first taken to Annas who was a Chief Priest but not the High Priest that year, I was completely hooked.

          The spiritual fulfillment of the Law requires that we be under the tradition of Messiah Yahushua. This is primarily why I identify myself as a Pharisee. I myself am a believer in tradition, and the tradition of Messiah tells me that men and women are not free. They all are born with a tendency to sin, and this includes Adam and Eve. Both Adam and Eve were created flesh. If you should think about it and also put a couple of scriptures together, you should realize that Adam and Eve were created into a state of imperfect innocence. They were not guilty of any sin until they disobeyed YAHWEH ELOHIM, but there is absolutely no reason to imagine that they would not eventually sin because they were created flesh, and the Apostle Paul has this to say about flesh:

          Romans 8:5-8
          5 For they that are after the flesh do mind the things of the flesh; but they that are after the Spirit the things of the Spirit.
          6 For to be fleshly minded is death; but to be spiritually minded is life and peace.
          7 Because the flesh mind is enmity against ELOHIM: for it is not subject to the law of ELOHIM, neither indeed can be.
          8 So then they that are in the flesh cannot please ELOHIM.

          There is no doubt that Adam and Eve were created flesh. So, being in the flesh, there is no possibility that they could please ELOHIM through their obedience. They were created to sin.

          This is the true tradition. Say what you will and argue as you must, but there exists no other truthful explanation, I am,
          Sincerely, Latuwr
          Spying, and show us a scripture, not your own CONjecture, They were created to sin?

          The apostle Paul does NOT tell us that Adam and Eve were created in sin, and this ye have to imagine out of your own mind.

          I will ask ye to please show us a verse of scripture saying this: Elohim created Adam and Eve in SIN?

          Comment


          • Truth seekers
            know the meaning of Anathema
            and Jesus never called that name to anyone He ministered to

            the RCC called people this latin word when the people objected to the church teaching
            When spoken to a person it means a total dislike
            even to hatred

            Spying is the first person to express his total dislike of me even to hate Me -i have ever met
            funny thing is i love Spying with an unconditional love
            why
            because long ago Jesus changed my heart
            I had A divine Heart Transplant
            He took out my old heart and replaced it With His
            and when He did this operation on me He have me His Heart
            His heart Is LOVE










            Comment


            • Topic: Into What State Were Adam and Eve Created?

              Hi EliYah,

              Anathema to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
              You asked this of me:

              "I will ask ye to please show us a verse of scripture saying this: Elohim created Adam and Eve in SIN?"

              You know full well that there exists no scripture which states that ELOHIM created Adam and Eve in sin, just like you should know full well that no scripture exists which states that ELOHIM created Adam and Eve in obedience.

              So, what is your thinking concerning the original state of Adam and Eve? Into what state were they created? This is very important for your continued presence on this forum that you answer this question sincerely and honestly with no evasion on your part, I am,

              Sincerely, Latuwr
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Spying View Post
                Topic: Into What State Were Adam and Eve Created?

                Hi EliYah,

                Anathema to you through the resurrected Messiah Yahushua, the Renewed and Restored YAHWEH ELOHIM!
                You asked this of me:

                "I will ask ye to please show us a verse of scripture saying this: Elohim created Adam and Eve in SIN?"

                You know full well that there exists no scripture which states that ELOHIM created Adam and Eve in sin, just like you should know full well that no scripture exists which states that ELOHIM created Adam and Eve in obedience.

                So, what is your thinking concerning the original state of Adam and Eve? Into what state were they created? This is very important for your continued presence on this forum that you answer this question sincerely and honestly with no evasion on your part, I am,

                Sincerely, Latuwr
                Spying, I will in my own good time, and why are ye saying that Adam and Eve were created in sin, and please show us your scriptures?

                This is very important for your continued presence on this forum that you answer this question sincerely and honestly with no evasion on your part, I am,

                Sincerely, Latuwr
                And why and for what cause is that, because I don't jump at all of your dictatorial commands?

                Comment


                • to all truth seekers
                  which came first the chicken oR the egg

                  is the same question about the creation of adam and eve taken from his side,
                  where they created perfect and innocent
                  where they created imperfect and evil


                  the creation itself was termed IT IS GOOD.
                  is good the same as perfect?

                  rather than looking at the IT IS GOOD creation how about we look at the problem

                  CAUSE A PROBLEM
                  HAVE A REACTION
                  FIND A SOLUTION

                  3 STEPS

                  ASK
                  why cause a problem
                  to see the reaction
                  then find a solution

                  ?COULD A MURDER BE THE PROBLEM?

                  ok
                  BEFORE THE FOUNDATION OF THE WORLD WAS FORMED - JESUS was slain
                  He was killed/MURDERED Before the foundations of the world = NOTHING YET HAD BEEN FORMED
                  SO A KILLING OF A KING happened before the foundations were laid


                  so nothing of this universe/world/creation - was made BEFORE Jesus was already slain
                  ASK
                  who slew or who murdered Jesus before the foundations were laid?

                  answer has to be SATAN
                  only 1 being is called a MURDERER from his beginning - satan
                  therefore satan must have murdered Jesus before the universe was made

                  now that is THE PROBLEM
                  and we have a REACTION to the Problem
                  and need to FIND A SOLUTION

                  so this also is a freemason operation - they cause a problem
                  why?
                  TO bring about the change to society they want
                  people start a reaction to this CREATED problem
                  then the freemason step in and heal this created problem with THEIR solution

                  so bring this scenerio back to creation.

                  there was a created PROBLEM that needed to change the creation
                  then there was a reaction from creation
                  that needed a solution


                  what is what this is all about

                  A CREATED PROBLEM IN THE FIRST PLACE
                  TO SEE THE REACTION TO THIS PROBLEM
                  THEN TO BRING FORTH THE SOLUTION TO THE PROBLEM THAT YOU CREATED IN THE 1ST PLACE

                  adam and Eve were created as good, inside a creation where a Murder of the creator King had already taken place
                  THEY entered a creation of Murder with a murderer still present

                  that is the problem
                  the reaction of both was to.................. do what -------- to be deceived and then sin

                  so be deceived is not a sin - sin happens when you chose how to react to the deception

                  because of the reaction, a solution had to be found

                  their reaction to ALL DECEPTION WAS TO SIN - THIS DID NOT MAKE THEM SINNERS = IT MADE THEM REACTORS TO DECEPTION THAT WAS CALLED SIN

                  PROBLEM
                  REACTION
                  SOLUTION

                  A MURDER OF A KING had taken place with the Murderer still present
                  the problem

                  THE REACTION
                  the 2 people reacted because one was deceived but did not sin then other reacted by going along with the deception and that is called sin - a lack of Knowledge by not knowing the truth and acting upon it

                  THE TRUTH ALLOWS PEOPLE TO BE ALIVE and not physically die - the lie kills as a lie is not the truth and has no divine life power

                  THE SOLUTION
                  what is SIN? lack of knowledge

                  SIN IS a deceived people wrongly reacting to a problem - called missing the Mark

                  mark - what is a MARK

                  A MURDER had taken place - the problem
                  the REACTION was to follow the path of deception
                  the solution was to send a SAVIOUR to SAVE men from deceptions

                  therefore both were NOT created IN sin but as good
                  but they were prone to be deceived and then to follow the path of this deception.

                  DECEPTION is a lie
                  therefore they were deceived and followed the path of a lie and that was the sin
                  this is the missing of the MARK - the MARK IS THE TRUTH

                  THEY WERE MISSING THE TRUTH and accepted a lie
                  THE TRUTH was the covering and the Lie made them naked

                  Jesus said I AM THE TRUTH AND when we know the truth we no longer chose the path of deception

                  IF jESUS WAS SLAIN before the foundations of creation laid down - this means in reality a LIE had SLAIN His truth
                  His Truth was Murdered by a Lie

                  now the question would be = as creation was still being formed WOULD the human creation believe a lie and be deceived by a Murderer
                  or
                  would they chose to receive the TRUTH AND not believe a lie

                  [well that was disappointing - the deception and the deceiver must be an expert tool ]
                  the humans cannot see THE TRUTH so they needed to BE SAVED,

                  jESUS SAID i AM THE TRUTH
                  SATAN we are told is the Liar

                  well now we come to another point that SATAN is ruler of this world - A LIAR AND A DECEIVER rule this world.
                  this IS OUR every day reality

                  we were lowered UNWILLINGLY INTO A WORLD OF LIES AND DECEPTIONS
                  SO WHERE IS THE TRUTH?
                  ONLY IN JESUS

                  ALL ELSE PRIOR TO JESUS was a lying deception with all the manifestations of evil towards human beings in every day lives
                  no real truth was FOUND because people DIED from lack of knowledge. - it makes people physically die

                  when we were lowered unwillingly into this reality -ask - why?
                  we did not have a choice?

                  Our spiritual Man inside did not wish to be lowered -
                  we must have known it was a NOT GOOD....WE LIVED IN THE TRUTH AND WE HAD TO DESCEND INTO THE WORLD BASED UPON A LIE

                  FROM Birth to death this world was all we knew.....the lie won. we all died. from LACK OF THE TRUTH

                  a redeemer was needed and came 2000yrs ago to FIND A SOLUTION.
                  FEW humans received the truth as the ruler of this world has his minions are posing as''' Truth light.'''

                  those LOWERED into this reality called THE MATRIX - will fight to remain in the lie
                  FEW find the truth and escape.
















                  Last edited by LucySmith; 09-11-2020, 03:46 PM.

                  Comment


                  • Eliyahu, Spying asked you a very good question. Show us a Scripture that states Elohim Created Adam to be obedient, with no tendency towards sin, and then this issue can be resolved. Ken

                    P.S. Is the FLESH of Adam any different than the FLESH of mankind?
                    Col 2:16 & 17 Teaches us that no "man" is to determine what we eat or drink, or how the Sabbath, Holy Days, and New Moon should be observed, instead, The Body of Messiah IS to determine those things, just like what happened in Acts 15.

                    Now, The Body of Messiah determined that since Moses is READ every Sabbath in the Synagogues (Acts 15:21), the Gentiles would be able to HEAR (Luke 16:31, John 5:46-47), and then do those things to farewell (Acts 15:29). Those FOUR necessary commands that The Body of Messiah determined for the Gentiles, were FROM the Law of Moses.
                    Abstain from meats offered to idols
                    (Exo 34:15), abstain from blood (Lev 17:14), abstain from things strangled (Deu 12:23), and abstain from fornication (Lev 19:29).
                    So do not let anyone deceive you into believing falsely about the Law of Moses.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by ImAHebrew View Post
                      Eliyahu, Spying asked you a very good question. Show us a Scripture that states Elohim Created Adam to be obedient, with no tendency towards sin, and then this issue can be resolved. Ken

                      P.S. Is the FLESH of Adam any different than the FLESH of mankind?
                      Ken, please either REPENT, or keep your word as being finished.

                      Also, I asked Spying for his scriptures, your NOT Spying, and how about letting Spying answer the questions asked of him, or better yet, let's see if both you and Spying will discuss it on the forum? Or do ye and Spying get together and complain to each other because one of ye get your contradictions corrected with the scriptures, and try to figure out a way to get rid of me, because you two allow Lucy to dump her UNCLEAN, UNBELIEVING garbage on here, and it's on all and every thread?

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                        Ken, please either REPENT, or keep your word as being finished.

                        Also, I asked Spying for his scriptures, your NOT Spying, and how about letting Spying answer the questions asked of him, or better yet, let's see if both you and Spying will discuss it on the forum? Or do ye and Spying get together and complain to each other because one of ye get your contradictions corrected with the scriptures, and try to figure out a way to get rid of me, because you two allow Lucy to dump her UNCLEAN, UNBELIEVING garbage on here, and it's on all and every thread?
                        no Elijah
                        the TRUTH ALONE sets men free = not the contradictions in the BBL that are far to numerous to post.
                        CONTRADICTIONS are not the PURE word of our Father and while you make excuses for lying error - you will always LACK true knowledge.
                        but what is the reality
                        you have a medical condition that FAILS to reason as an adult IN christ
                        on most posts you revert to immaturity and utter senselessness.

                        you dont wish to answer the questions because in fact MOST PEOPLE DONT KNOW,. = who came first the chicken or the egg
                        yes Elijah you do need to be gotten rid of .... and be changed to a mature critical thinker IN christ...

                        an Honest holy person can see YOU ARE NOT FREE - from poverty, nor live in an honourable marriage, and continually uses a sewer mouth, with a rejected spirit
                        you need heaps of deliverance.
                        All your verse quoting without an adult CHRISTLIKE reasoning ability is dead useless

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by LucySmith View Post

                          no Elijah
                          the TRUTH ALONE sets men free = not the contradictions in the BBL that are far to numerous to post.
                          CONTRADICTIONS are not the PURE word of our Father and while you make excuses for lying error - you will always LACK true knowledge.
                          but what is the reality
                          you have a medical condition that FAILS to reason as an adult IN christ
                          on most posts you revert to immaturity
                          No Lucy, there is no Truth in ye, and Adults in Christ obey Him and His words, they don;t run to UNCLEAN, UNBELIEVING dog's words and obey them as ye do.

                          One must ask, what is the real reason that Spying does NOT correct ye, or even why he hasn't threatened you, could it be the gifts, one must wonder?

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                            No Lucy, there is no Truth in ye, and Adults in Christ obey Him and His words, they don;t run to UNCLEAN, UNBELIEVING dog's words and obey them as ye do.

                            One must ask, what is the real reason that Spying does NOT correct ye, or even why he hasn't threatened you, could it be the gifts, one must wonder?
                            thank you elijah for PROVING your stupid respondings to a vital problems of BBL contradictions you deny and refuse to address

                            BTW
                            stupidity is not a virtue
                            hmm gifts a bible cover and a map if i remember over 20 yrs of forum friendship that had since waned to dislike and even hatred on his part
                            sigh
                            (yes it sure is a crucifiction offence) and i understand your vitriol

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
                              thank you elijah for PROVING your stupid respondings to a vital problems of BBL contradictions you deny and refuse to address

                              BTW
                              stupidity is not a virtue
                              hmm gifts a bible cover and a map if i remember over 20 yrs of forum friendship that had since waned to dislike and even hatred on his part
                              sigh
                              (yes it sure is a crucifiction offence) and i understand your vitriol
                              Lucy, ye better look at ye own stupidity, because someone who posts the same lies of devils as many times(too numerous to list) as ye have sure must be after being shown the truth to not do it.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by Eliyah View Post
                                Lucy, ye better look at ye own stupidity, because someone who posts the same lies of devils as many times(too numerous to list) as ye have sure must be after being shown the truth to not do it.
                                Again elijah you could not answer with the truth
                                a law for Moses and Yahs murders and killing and. Law for the plebs

                                oh look here the same standard still apply
                                rather like The old lady Pelousie? And her hair dressing appointments

                                Comment

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