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so~~ WHAT is N.O.R.M.A.L.? - Yeshua was NOT ''normal''.

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  • #16
    When Did Yahushua Become Immortal?

    Hi Lucy,

    Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

    Shabbat Shalom!

    You wrote:

    "His message is
    IMMORTALITY
    meaning..................
    Every cell contains the Immortal Essence of Father creator [ as his child] and It's absolute perfection.
    There is no illness, aging, or death.
    We are IMMORTAL with perfect health- here"
    (I inserted here the bolding and underlining.)

    Humm? Did Yahushua die? Did Yahushua age? How about illness? Did Yahushua never get sick?

    Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,
    Sincerely, Latuwr
    The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

    Comment


    • #17
      Dont be dull of hearing and miss the gospel please dear Spying.

      Yeshua, gave up His life Spying, if this was not done He would still remain ALIVE TODAY
      why?
      BECAUSE HE IS LIFE.
      why don't u understand this?

      THE LIFE doesn't contain death [a far lower energy that is in vanity]
      .
      He began to be lowered into the grave at the garden of olives, when He descended from life into death and oozed blood from His forehead.

      TO HEAL sickness ONE HAS DOMINION OVER SICKNESS.

      !!!can you explain where death dwells in ETERNAL LIFE?

      as for the disciples..... the past the present the future are all rolled into 1 - the NOW is everpresent.
      vanity contains time and space....OUTSIDE OF VANITY in the normal realm NOW IS ALWAYS.
      Father has a very different concept.
      YESHUA LIVED IN THIS CONCEPT HERE THAT IS NORMAL. its the rest of humanity that is abnormal.

      in john11 Yeshua speaking with Martha said 'I AM, THE RESURRECTION AND THE LIFE.''
      2 POWERS present
      #1 - resurrection power
      #2 - LIFE ETERNAL POWER WHERE DEATH CANNOT BE.

      THE SAVIOUR GAVE UP this powerfull life.
      I SUGGEST IT MUST HAVE BEEN A TRAUMATIC element for Him, to fall headlong into the hands of death [ an enemy]

      I don't think it pays to make the Saviour anything less than GOD IN MAN.

      the real facts are....
      Yeshua says that even if you do die, you shall live.
      Resurrection life is available to all who die in Christ.

      Before Yeshua raised Lazarus from the dead, Martha stated that she believed in the resurrection of the dead at the last day.

      However, Yeshua was about to demonstrate resurrection power in the present tense.
      It seems that most people go by way of the grave, but that is not God’s best.

      Yeshua taught resurrection life as well as life that death cannot destroy, everlasting life.
      He says that whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die. DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?

      John 8:51.

      as Yeshua taught Martha, so too does He teach His Ekklesia.
      no man will believe this otherwise- unless it comes from the Master's lips.
      no man can really teach this gospel truth. Yes they can confirm it but not teach it.
      why not?
      The work of God is to believe in Him (Jesus) whom He (The Father) sent. John 6:29.

      Yeshua says, "And whoever lives and believes in Me shall never die."
      "DO YOU BELIEVE THIS?''

      It is the will of our Father that everyone who sees the Son and Believes in Him may have everlasting life. "
      If anyone keeps My WORD he shall never see death." John 8:51.

      Yeshua raised Lazarus from the dead.
      yeshua called him forth after being dead and in the grave for four days.
      What a wonderful LORD we serve! The power of the Father, the power of life was invested in the Son.
      He has the power to raise the dead and He has the power to cause His faithful elect remnant to enter fully into eternal life.
      The adoption of sonship is made available to us, the redemption of our mortal bodies.

      There is a generation chosen to believe and to walk in everlasting life.
      The fruit of the Holy Spirit will be evidenced in this people.
      They are a people of covenant and are willing to judge themselves and lay aside their carnal, sinful nature.
      They desire, have hope, to receive the fullness of the Christ anointing.
      They seek the nature of the Father and the Son.
      They love God with all their heart and soul and mind and strength.
      Their motives are righteous and Christ centered, they take on the mind of Christ, and are Spirit led.
      They are yielded and obedient to His will. These are they who say "Your will be done, O LORD."
      Last edited by LucySmith; 06-04-2016, 05:36 AM.

      Comment


      • #18
        Normal Or Abnormal; Mortal Or Immortal?

        Hi Lucy,

        Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

        Shabbat Shalom!

        In opening this thread, you put forward that Messiah Yahushua is abnormal and that the world is normal. Now, in your reply to me, I hear you saying to me that Yahushua is normal, and the world is abnormal. What gives?

        Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

        Sincerely, Latuwr
        The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

        Comment


        • #19
          well, its all how you view things Spying

          though the eyes of this world as 'normal''
          or
          though the eyes of Yeshua, this world is ''abnormal.''

          if you love this world you are ''normal''.
          the world considers Yeshua ''abnormal'' but HE IS NORMAL its the masses are ''abnormal.''

          people consider death as normal.
          people have made death their friend

          yet at the sound of His voice death fled.
          THIS IS NORMAL.

          people consider sickness as normal
          Yet at the command of the saviour all sickness fled.
          THIS IS NORMAL.

          How can this be explained?
          how can the world perspective be changed?

          how can eternal LIFE be added to a dying race?
          would it be best to have a different perspective?

          what is IN OUR BEST INTERESTS......
          how is the kingdom of heaven within, manifested out to a dying world?

          to people who are awakening to their destiny, these questions are important.
          some people are becoming WISE to their salvation. [ not all but some are]

          those who are wise, are all on the same page.
          the same lessons are taught, the same education of the spirit heeded
          none argue, in the school of the spirit, because LIFE IS APPEARING and where LIFE IS so is harmony.


          Yeshua, is the standard, every one should be as.
          alas, this is not so, for all the learning and religious experience none have made it TO BE AS HE IS.
          don't YOU THINK THIS VERY ODD?
          Last edited by LucySmith; 06-04-2016, 04:10 PM. Reason: VERY ODD.

          Comment


          • #20
            undoctriated,

            https://youtu.be/pCWW6IBBLqo

            some diamonds to consider.....

            Comment


            • #21
              Followers Of Messiah Yahushua!

              Hi Lucy,

              Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

              I perceive that you are much conflicted about the nature of Messiah Yahushua. You wrote:

              "Yeshua, is the standard, every one should be as.
              alas, this is not so, for all the learning and religious experience none have made it TO BE AS HE IS.
              don't YOU THINK THIS VERY ODD?"

              How are we to be like Messiah Yahushua without following in HIS footsteps, and how are we to follow in HIS footsteps and accomplish the work of HIS Hands without the belief that Messiah Yahushua in the flesh was no different than you or me or any other living soul.

              My Messiah grew in stature and wisdom (Luke 2:40 & 52). Yahushua did not remain a baby in the manger. Yahushua aged. Messiah worked in a physical sense. He was a carpenter like my Brother, ImAHebrew. Isaiah says of HIM that HE bore our sorrows and our sicknesses (Isaiah 53:3-4), and like Job, HE lost esteem among HIS family and friends because of these experiences.

              It seems to me that you have the idea that the righteous will not get physically sick or suffer injury. What do you do with Job? What do you do with this true understanding of the nature of Messiah Yahushua? HE was tested. HE was tempted. HE suffered from hunger. What did Messiah use against HIS tempter? Did HE not use in part the words of YAHWEH ELOHIM through the Prophet Moses?

              How can you even begin to imitate or emulate Messiah Yahushua without having HIS faith in the testimony of Moses as a Prophet of YAHWEH ELOHIM! If you do not stand upon this HIS base, what keeps you from falling under the power of the tempter?

              I think it ODD that you imagine that you are following Messiah by denying HIS Word and Wisdom. Look at HIS practice:

              Luke 4:16
              16 And he came to Nazareth, where he had been brought up: and, as his custom was, he went into the synagogue on the sabbath day, and stood up for to read.

              Now, Lucy, do you really believe in doing as Messiah Yahushua did?

              Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

              Sincerely, Latuwr
              The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

              Comment


              • #22
                whatever Spying... whatever....

                you do it all your way.. as only you can.
                I do it what I hear daily from the Saviour....as only I can. walking by faith and not be sight

                sweetie BTW
                it was never about ''going to some church on a saturday'' - it was only about ''the kingdom of heaven being fully awakened and imparted into a group of eternal lifers hearing His voice of the new covenant''
                you do as you do, because...............
                I shaking the dust off my feet as its not worth the agro and the mocking insults
                ... you do what ye will and bear the fruits of what ye will.

                Comment


                • #23
                  the Kingdom of heaven is within you - was preached.

                  the religious have their own theories.

                  Yeshua calls out a people and teaches them Himself.
                  There is dung in the NT but also veins of gold and precious gems of kingdom understanding
                  Yeshua has to de-programme the disciples from all former ''normal Christian belief'' and RE-programmed them with new covenant understanding.
                  Most people are locked into their personal form of belief and are sick and dying, and finally from die from sin.
                  yet, they remain ever faithful to a lost cause!!!!

                  Yeshua, looks after His sheep, = personally tends them and hovers over them as a bridegroom over His bride
                  [ who makes herself ready]
                  THE transition period out from vanity and into the kingdom is a walk of faith a step at a time and each day, the picking up the cross happens.

                  what does it entail?
                  allowing the Lords will to dominate over our wills. - to walk by His faith and not many people can slay the ''demon of seeing is believing'' so they make up substitutes or excuses for their failure to move into the IMAGE OF CHRIST.
                  to MOVE OUT FROM vanity and its normal into THE ABNORMAL territory of the Saviour takes great courage as our old religious man desired to remain enthroned.

                  I remember one day I heard a priest give all manner of advice of marriage and birth control.... and I thought to myself ''what in the hell, would this old guy know about anything relating to married life'' = yet there he is, totally inexperienced giving out all manner of advice.
                  so it is with the religious people.
                  -their experience of the Kingdom of heaven is so limited, they mouth off from verses, never to understand they are to LIVE the verses of the kingdom of God.

                  I thought I wonder why they do this as if some great authority on this matter.

                  then I knew their problem

                  THEY WERE UNABLE TO WALK BY THE SAME FAITH YESHUA HAD FOR EACH personal NEED.
                  They are full of UNBELIEF and because of this YESHUA is unable to teach them nor help them to any great extent for their personal unbelief in His sustaining power is not present.
                  SO THEY MAKE UP their own church based upon misdirection and 1/2 truths and then die in sin

                  what sin
                  unbelief.

                  the kingdom of heaven has nothing at all to do with any act of vanity.... as in ''what day we shall worship, what food we shall eat, what pet we shall own'' or any other rubbish thinking from the carnal mind.

                  THE PREACHING OF THE KINGDOM OF GOD, has nothing to do with the law of moses.

                  the KINGDOM OF HEAVEN as nothing to do with flesh

                  what is it?

                  the converted mind, under the new convenant, living daily in the needs of Yeshua as He manifests His kingdom from His people.
                  It is learning to walk very differently
                  it is learning to think very differently
                  it is learning how the kingdom system works in so many ways, that are so different from the ways of the world.
                  it is learning how to discern the bible verses and discerning those that have been hacked.
                  it is also learning how to ''see'' an agenda inside the texts taking shape.
                  it is learning to discern the tare from the wheat.
                  it is learning to fruit inspect, not from the lips but from the life lived as their testimony.

                  some do make it into LIFE ETERNAL here.
                  those who do - BECOME THE IMAGE OF CHRIST so
                  ------under the present saul/paul system name one?
                  [opps]
                  yet, the religious professors are ever present, telling everyone how to think and what we all must do, yet, the same people drop dead from their sins get sick, make wills, and die in unbelief.

                  sigh

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    the ''normal fundamentalist churchian'' loves playing the part of

                    THE VICTIM
                    THE WHOLE CHURCH MENALITY is i am a suffering sinning victim.
                    this is a ''normal''' response for ignorance and unbelief.

                    infact satan loves victims, they are so easy to control and he makes sure fundamental pews remain trapped in their VICTIMHOOD.,
                    the poor, the sick, the dying, the needy etc - remain entombed and jailed in a Matrix of victimhood.

                    they offer up JOB to strengthen their claim '' look at me, i am a victim like Job''
                    yet, this is so far from the truth of the matter we The OVERCOMER, overcomes all things and is VICTORIOUS and in this victory, in christ,-
                    Christ's Kingdom THEN BECOMES a ruling king*dom.

                    A RULING KINGDOM, does not have victims moaning their fate.
                    Yeshua is a GLORIOUS King and so are those who are called into His kingdom of life.
                    VICTORY IS THEIRS in christ as they learn of HIM and lean ON him and study His way.

                    it is IN your best interests, to cease playing the role of JOB.
                    stop having a baby jesus,
                    a dying jesus
                    a sickly tired worn out jesus,
                    a victim jesus - AND ADVANCE INTO THE GOSPEL TRUTH OF A VICTORIOUS KING,

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      the church 'jesus' is a victim..... not....

                      The real VICTORIOUS KING.

                      There is a group called...
                      The Vessels Prepared

                      The Overcomer in his state of tribulation and in tremendous separations.
                      There they are, the off scouring of the world and off to the side alone, unwanted, unknown.
                      the processing into NORMAL KINGDOM LIVING HERE...
                      They come now to a very unique place.
                      All of the dross is boiled to the surface; all of it is at the top.
                      If you will, the person becomes two people.
                      They become a spirit man and a flesh man, both sides matured and fully realized by the eyesight of Yeshua.
                      As such they have what is known as a “duality”.

                      Some teach that we have no duality that we are just as Yeshua was in the world.
                      Well, yes we are, in our new created man born of the spirit and washed in the overflowing waters of His word, yes, we are that pure undefiled person as was Yeshua.
                      But we are also of the earth earthy!
                      We have a carnal side, a side down here on the ground of man’s world that is fully revealed to the Lord’s gaze and which cannot be found without every part of that nature having been opened up unto the Lord.
                      Both sides exist side by side like wheat and tares, both have matured, surfaced and are realized in the discerning sword of He who wears the ephod fully intact upon His chest.



                      This is exactly what the Lord was coming to, this company of people.
                      They are separate one from another by time and distance.
                      They are off to the side of all of man’s attempts at being godly or right or by religious effort being found accepted by God.

                      The true Overcomer assumes nothing for themselves;
                      they know that the Lord is for them the source and the fount of life.
                      Nothing else matters in their faith except that the Lord is honoured by their lives laid down as living sacrifices.
                      But this was the whole working of God in this past age, to find such a people whose hearts were weighed and who God knew would endure the scourging of His great heat and fire, those to whom the nature of God would come forth through them as a flaming brand.

                      Kenneth v fisscher edification

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        i suppose i could write....

                        those who are PROMOTING religious deception, will begin to worry, as they ''see'' their lying empire called ''that's normal'' begin to crumble
                        ofcourse,
                        this doesn't happen over night, yet, there is a world wide group AWAKENED to the lying deceptions found within the pages of the ''holy writ''

                        now who ACTUALLY SAID '' the bible is fully and honestly the ''word of god'' - WHO?
                        and is sacred with a ''don't touch me mentality''
                        who?
                        THE lying saul/paul.... and as the religious worship under his system of total confusion, they will promote this man and yet will never discover this deception for themselves.
                        All Scripture is inspired by God and is useful to teach us what is true and to make us realize what is wrong in our lives. It corrects us when we are wrong and teaches us to do what is right. 2 tim
                        is it a great idea to believe a self confessed liar?

                        Ex PHARISEE PAUL ADMITS HE IS A LIAR
                        Romans 3:7 "If the truth of God has been spread by my lie, then why am I judged a sinner."
                        Fans of the self-proclaimed 13th apostle of Jesus Christ, Pharisee Paul/Saul of Tarsus - well there is your beloved Master admitting he is a liar.
                        Who is he admitting his lie to? The Jews!
                        four times here, in the New Testament epistles, that Paul denied that he was lying: to the Corinthians, the Galatians, Timothy, and the Romans
                        [if he was in denial, others must have called him one.]

                        those who sit at his feet, also, become liars
                        Letters from James found with the Dead Sea Scrolls also called Paul "the spouter of lies"
                        see research done by Dr. Robert Eisenman

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          The Necessity Of Water Baptism?

                          Hi Lucy,

                          Blessings to you through Messiah Yahushua, My YAHWEH and My ELOHIM!

                          It is sometimes necessary to explain personal practice. This is difficult to do because as explanations are presented, the explanations often are understood by others to be a form of self justification.

                          When my former wife and I withdrew from fellowship with the Tzaddikim, we began to attend Sabbath Services with an offshoot of the former Worldwide Church of God. This for various reasons eventually proved to be very hurtful to our marriage. At the time, our marriage suffered from tremendous financial strain, and looking back, I realize that I absolutely failed in a physical sense to be a good provider for my wife and family. The upside for that failure was that I compensated for my failure by retreating into searching for and seeking out LIFE NOW! I became consumed by that seeking. It took first place in my life over every other consideration. This I should have done but not without neglecting to provide for the needs of my wife and family at the same time, or without putting into practice the teaching of the Apostle Paul who taught that a Believing Husband should love his Wife as Messiah Yahushua loved the Church.

                          I do understand that belief in LIFE NOW is a revelation from Messiah that continually needs to be sought after. It is not sufficient to believe in LIFE NOW without putting that belief, as you do teach, into practice, and it is not sufficient to put belief in LIFE NOW into practice without understanding the cause of LIFE NOW as I do teach. We both are aware of individuals who believed in LIFE NOW and then grew older and eventually got sick and died (Believers in LIFE NOW do absolutely age).

                          One can definitely believe in LIFE NOW. One can believe that the source of LIFE NOW is Messiah Yahushua, and such a one can still die. Why? They die because they really did not understand the cause of LIFE NOW!

                          Messiah Yahushua was not born with a belief in LIFE NOW. Messiah at a very early age began to search and seek out LIFE NOW. At the age of twelve at the Feast of the Passover, Messiah neglected HIS earthly parents to be with the Masters in the Temple knowing that HE was bound to be with HIS Spiritual Father.

                          At the age of thirty, Messiah informed John the Baptist that it was proper for them (us) to fulfill all righteousness, and, of course, Messiah then received water baptism. I wonder, does water baptism have anything to do with obtaining LIFE NOW?

                          Lucy, did you yourself ever deem it necessary for obtaining LIFE NOW that you were immersed in water? If so, why? If not, why not? How about your children, did any of them as adults receive water baptism?

                          Thanking you in advance should you be moved to reply, I am,

                          Sincerely, Latuwr
                          The Currahee Band Of Brothers Are Beginning To Arise In The HOLY PLACE! Listen to them!!!

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            spying, i have done everything i was told to do

                            LIFE NOW here on earth, came as a great shock to me, as I was reading John 11.
                            it was as if, the teacher was speaking to me personally and I got changed. [ it was very simple]
                            it was not some ordinary bible read, like looking at the word as in a book but as if the words jumped off the page and into my whole being.
                            prior to this experience, it had happened 2 other times with 2 verses ''the just shall live by faith,'' and Abraham was a friend of God'' and in a lesser way, '' the salt covenant''
                            on these occasions I felt changed and awestruck.

                            it was personal and decisive and I was not mistaken nor deceived.
                            from those times I have walked by faith, and for me, extremely hard to do, yet I perservered and now I feel confident under the anointing to continue.
                            AS for my living in LIFE NOW, I continue to listen, and lean not on my own understanding, because of I do, I know I will fail.
                            Many have had the revelation and died. [ I don't wish to be include in their ranks]
                            recently I noticed the 3 lifers I used to visit on the net had gone and their ''account suspended'' - [I find this a worry]
                            however I press on, regardless because I do believe unbelief is also a killer and this walk by faith is a trust and a must.

                            as for my family
                            I believe they were changed as they saw me so changed for themselves.
                            ONE PERSON with LIFE attracts OTHERS to this eternal life.
                            yet I also feel, it is a very personal issue as well.

                            LIFE NOW, also progresses a person into abundance.
                            in this abundance, there is also a responsibility to be as a servant to all, and work out from kingdom values of love and sharing is caring.
                            kingdom principles, start to develop and wisdom is also developed and this is again in a servant type of manner not one of ''lording it over others''.

                            also it seems that people come into THE LIFE who need ''fixing''

                            yes, water bapt. is necessary but, after this nothing of the flesh that is old and religious is necessary as we become HIS WORKMANSHIP.... I trust in this,.
                            I find THE TEACHER will teach an open heart and mind HIS LIFE ETERNAL as it only he who can increase our LIFE ENENGY INTO THE FULLNESS.
                            [ see the wedding in cana jn 2]

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              John 2 = wedding

                              life now
                              new wine
                              water jars
                              Mary's advice.

                              I studied this Spying, and I found many gems, but the most important verse was from Mary [the mother] who said to the servants as her LAST RECORDED WORD ''do whatsoever MY SON TELLS YOU'' do it.
                              I read the words and I can ''see'' THE ETERNAL LIFE PERSON, TEACHES ETERNAL LIFE and NO OTHERS do, as they are NOT ETERNAL in the 1st place.....https://youtu.be/pCWW6IBBLqo
                              don't listen to a stranger,
                              it seems the STRANGERS have usurped the ETERNAL TEACHING
                              No ~~~I will put this another way

                              ONLY the eternal life teacher can teach on eternal life...... not religion, not hirelings, not clergy = for all remain a 3d dying vanity.
                              I never teach it but only tell of it.
                              the teaching IS personal.
                              why?
                              because all disciples have massive issues to be dealt with, that are personal.
                              if you don't have the right teacher, you don't receive the right life..... as a forinstance - paul - the whole teaching is a dying one. Yes he will have some truth there and it looks good in a few places BUT, IT IS NOT THE REAL TRUTH FROM THE TRUTH PERSON HIMSELF.... THE PROOF BEING - not 1 person has attained to the same ministry as Yeshua in 2000 yrs.
                              why not?
                              Pauline Christianity has usurped the gospel.

                              When people sit under this saul/paul form of ministry they become UNBALANCED as you did, when your family and wife needed supporting.[it was doomed to fail and be barren]
                              Everyone becomes UNBALANCED IN SAME WAY.
                              UNBALANCED ministry =unbalanced people =30,000+ systems all unbalanced yet claiming to have the truth.

                              Notice you never go to university to be taught by policemen,
                              You go to university to be taught by university professors.

                              Same with the bible.
                              THE SAVIOUR WALKED THE WALK AND TAUGHT THE LIFE.
                              did you also notice the ''commission'' to the apostles was ''PREACH'' the gospel not TEACH.
                              also THERE IS NO anointing to preach, under the saul/paul system.
                              why not?
                              because there was no such a person as the biblical 13th apostle and this is proven by the fruits of his ''my gospel'' system

                              now back to the wedding
                              The water jars [man] were filled to the brim [ fullness of life spirit] - a gallon at a time.
                              the water is poured into the jar a bit at a time.... till the fullness appears.

                              yet it seems as if this flow can be stopped [by man] because there is the 30/60/100 inflow anointing.
                              the 30 fold didn't proceed to the 60 fold and the 60fold never attained to the 100fold.
                              therefore, the heart, the mind, the faith and the teaching, all must collide to form the FULLNESS OF SPIRIT into the 100fold.

                              so is there living proof of a divine change?
                              yes.
                              is there living proof of Yeshua divine good shepherding
                              yes

                              Our life lived ENCHRISTED is vastly different from a religious life here.

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                the missing link

                                the gospel
                                or
                                the church
                                or
                                the missing link.

                                immortal/eternal life is missing.
                                [''the kingdom of heaven is within you''.- is missing as a reality here]


                                to make the “rosy” assumptions that you are in good health, that your body is not deteriorating, that you are comfortable financially, that you have friends and loved ones who are also immortal (in the sense of living forever).
                                These are, of course, big assumptions; but to ask a really big question, sometimes we have to make big assumptions.
                                the 100fold.

                                ask the big questions
                                seek wisdom from above
                                get TRUE REALITY HERE - GOSPEL REALITY.
                                GET the ''kingdom of heaven within'' here and then walk IN it,

                                get the missing link
                                don't LISTEN to religious strangers
                                be de-programmed from all previous CULTural church experiences

                                Comment

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