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  • the Old Testament, - is it FROM FATHER or man? beyond a reasonable doubt.

    religious people will say it is GOD INSPIRED.....

    THE OLD TESTAMENT INSPIRED?

    If it is, it should be a book that no man — no number of men — could produce.

    It should contain the perfection of philosophy.

    It should perfectly accord with every fact in nature.

    There should be no mistakes in astronomy, geology, or as to any subject or science.

    Its morality should be the highest, the purest.

    Its laws and regulations for the control of conduct should be just, wise, perfect, and perfectly adapted to the accomplishment of the ends desired.

    It should contain nothing calculated to make man cruel, revengeful, vindictive or infamous.

    It should be filled with intelligence, justice, purity, honesty, mercy and the spirit of liberty.

    It should be opposed to strife and war, to slavery and lust, to ignorance, credulity and superstition.

    It should develop the brain and civilize the heart.

    It should satisfy the heart and brain of the best and wisest.

    It should be true.

    Does the Old Testament satisfy this standard?
    Robert G. Ingersoll, 1894



    I ask this question in all fairness
    ''IF THE GOD OF THE O.T. IS some being who would do things you never would do - why worship such a creature''.
    consider THIS
    ''if you don't feel it is GODLIKE and HOLY to have incest, rape and murder within your family relationships.....why worship a ''god'' who choses such perverted souls to represent him''.

    another comment to consider.. from Gnostic books saying...
    Several Gnostic books were written concerning Jesus, and some remain relatively uncorrupted, however most are materially corrupted today.
    Jesus pointed out that the "God" of the Old Testament was not the God of Light, and He demonstrated it in many ways.
    He showed his disdain for fraud, murder and hypocrisy which the "God" of the Old Testament openly promoted by rewarding those such as Abraham, Sarah, Jacob, Rebecca, Lot and others for lying to kings, performing confidence games, deceiving their siblings, and having incestuous relationships with their children.
    Jesus demonstrated that the "God" of the Old Testament was in fact the Devil — who symbolically signifies the epitome of Darkness.
    The "God" of the Old Testament is a god who rules by fear and condemnation.
    He is such an insecure "God" that he openly declares that he is a jealous god and his acts confirm that he is an abusive and jealous god.
    the question remains
    is the ''god'' of the OT like the devil or Yeshua of the NT?

    perhaps OT lovers can answer this question.
    Why does Darkness thrive on physical death?
    or
    do you ''THRIVE'' ON PHYSICAL DEATH yourself- does it give u a ''buzz''
    after all ''murder mysteries are the most sort after an all libraries''.

  • #2
    there once was a man who smelt a 'rat'......

    ]At the beginning of christianity, the great Gnostic Master Marcion stated it very clearly:
    "the god of the old testament is not the God of the new testament. They are two different gods. The first is a god who applies the law and punishes, whereas the other is a God of love who always forgives. The two are irreconcilable".
    What can be done to conceal this? It was Origen who came up with the following brilliant idea: "There are not two different gods, one fair and the other good. It is the same God, and he is fair and good". This is how the demiurge came to be good and perfect.

    Secondly, this is how the difference between the unknowable world and the created world has in this way been eliminated as well. Anyone who refers to the existence of the two irreconcilable kingdoms will be derogatorily labelled as "dualist"; as if describing reality just as it is were a bad thing. The conspirators reduced everything to only one kingdom: the kingdom of the demiurge.

    Thirdly, if the demiurge is good and perfect, who can we blame for all the bad things that exist in the world? If the divine attributes of the Unknowable God have been transferred to the demiurge, what about the demiurgic attributes of evil and ineptitude, plagiarism and lying?

    This is why the idea that the demiurge is not satan and that satan is someone else has been invented. The demiurge has become good and perfect, stripped of his satanic features. All the evil now comes from this new satan who is outside of him. The evil of the demiurge has been taken outside, to a satan different to the creator.
    Now it is this new satan who likes blood, the smell of burnt flesh, the slaves, wars, rituals, sacrifices, conspiracies and genocide. Now it is this new satan who enjoys the fact that men bow down before him in adoration and make covenants or blood pacts with him, in exchange for power or earthly wealth.
    It is easy to discover that all the characteristics which satan now has were taken from the creator god of the bible.




    ofcourse he cops some slack. ''How dare he even think such a thing..... heretic''

    cont.http://www.theforbiddenreligion.com/...conspiracy.htm
    [while all the ''facts'' may not stack up exactly it is nonetheless something to ponder over and wonder at as all TRUTHSEEKERS do]


    yet Yeshua told Philip. those who see HIM, also ''see'' His invisible Father.
    so WHO IS YESHUA AND WHAT IS HIS MINISTRY LIKE?

    ONE HAS TO CONCEDE Yeshua and His Ministry are nothing like the OT ''gods' ministry of slaughter murder raping and death to all over rather puny excuses.....
    so who can lay evil charges at the Messiah's NT ministry of including acts of incest, rape, slaughter, madness, and murders done in the rank and file disciples/believers?

    is there room for a ''reasonable doubt''?
    anyone?

    Comment


    • #3
      Moses opposite in nature..... to all Yeshua taught...

      if one is honest to themselves and outside a CULT of................. '''bible believer-ism''..... people notice the OT is filled with lunatic killers.
      consider... is it normal ????
      to have ''gods'' ruling over you, with a far lower moral character than ourselves, is weird to say the least.

      look at Solomon, the ''wisest of all men'' we are told - yet the story line goes - he was a sex crazed lustfilled king who desired material wealth.
      and then when the temple was built, no man could stand because '' of the glory of the lord''
      = really?

      Some of these ''bible heros'' - are REPUGNANT to honest decent people.
      where is honesty and human decency?
      why is depraved to be ''worshipped''

      perhaps....
      the ''god'' is created in their own image.

      the question needs to be asked is
      ''why should i keep laws [ or parts of laws] from an immoral wicked standard i personally find unacceptable to my moral nature,''.

      Comment


      • #4
        Lucy, about all you do, is pick out certain parts of the scriptures on those people mentioned, then, you try to use their own words to accuse them, the same as you would do with someone who would write you a letter,-the same as you did Ken and A.B. too to accuse them.

        I'm going to make people aware of what you do Lucy.

        Comment


        • #5
          if the ''gods'' of the OT have manifested evil/ sins within............

          something is wrong.

          Easy ''bible believer-ism'' is not the works of a truth seeker nor of a spiritual detective but found in a ''ROBOTIC being'' who will believe anything they are told to believe..............


          Those who love the scriptures more than Abba (John 5:38-39) will say,
          "but ALL of Moses' writings ARE God's commands".

          Then why did Yeshua correct Moses' law in Matt. chapter 5?

          And why did Yeshua sometimes refer to Moses' writings as "your law" (John 8:17) and "their law" (John 15:25)?

          If Yeshua is the Word of God, then how could He refer to His words in the third person and impugn those words as belonging to the religious leaders He said were in error?

          Surely if those commands referred to by Yeshua in those contexts were His Father's commands, He would not refer to them in the third person of "your" and "their" and in a demeaning manner to boot!

          consider....
          the whole ''spirit'' or ''tone'' of the OT is a gross insult to any normal honest person and their ability to live within the confines of godlike behaviour that Yeshua foretold of namely= the rule of #1-Loving Abba and #2-loving thy neighbour as thyself.


          BTW = THERE IS AN AREA that needs to be explored....a scenario not too many have twigged too.
          scene......... of a history lesson....?????
          '' if the OT was basically written by religious jewish men from the ancient past, they wrote with an agenda that needs to bare fruits.....this fruit flowers in the book of revelation.
          the scene is a one world dictatorship - so it buds in the OT and ends in Revelation. the history of the prison planet in a nut shell.
          the Book of revelation is the culmination of a long and ancient AGENDA
          and today this world is nearing its final death throws to all decent loving people....................hmmm..

          you think I jest
          No
          YESHUA told us all CAPTIVES ARE TO BE SET FREE.
          captives to what?
          THE LAW
          THEIR GODS
          THE AGENDA

          we need to be set free.~~~~

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by LucySmith View Post
            something is wrong.

            Easy ''bible believer-ism'' is not the works of a truth seeker nor of a spiritual detective but found in a ''ROBOTIC being'' who will believe anything they are told to believe..............


            Those who love the scriptures more than Abba (John 5:38-39) will say,
            "but ALL of Moses' writings ARE God's commands".

            Then why did Yeshua correct Moses' law in Matt. chapter 5?(E.C. where does Messiah say, that He is "correcting" Moses here? Lucy, YOU are saying this NOT Messiah.)

            And why did Yeshua sometimes refer to Moses' writings as "your law" (John 8:17) and "their law" (John 15:25)? (E.C. Was the law NOT given to them?)

            If Yeshua is the Word of God, then how could He refer to His words in the third person and impugn those words as belonging to the religious leaders He said were in error? ( John says Messiah is the Word John 1:1-14.)

            Surely if those commands referred to by Yeshua in those contexts were His Father's commands, He would not refer to them in the third person of "your" and "their" and in a demeaning manner to boot!( Lucy, YOU are the one that is saying this, NOT Messiah.)

            consider....
            the whole ''spirit'' or ''tone'' of the OT is a gross insult to any normal honest person and their ability to live within the confines of godlike behaviour that Yeshua foretold of namely= the rule of #1-Loving Abba and #2-loving thy neighbour as thyself.


            BTW = THERE IS AN AREA that needs to be explored....a scenario not too many have twigged too.
            scene......... of a history lesson....?????
            '' if the OT was basically written by religious jewish men from the ancient past, they wrote with an agenda that needs to bare fruits.....this fruit flowers in the book of revelation.
            the scene is a one world dictatorship - so it buds in the OT and ends in Revelation. the history of the prison planted in a nut shell.
            the Book of revelation is the culmination of a long and ancient AGENDA
            and today this world is nearing its final death throws to all decent loving people....................hmmm..
            Lucy, all your doing is trying to use Messiah's own words against Him to accuse Him, and using His words to accuse those who wrote of Him.

            I can't help but smile.

            Comment


            • #7
              captives/prisoners....

              words of Yeshua. CAPTIVES /FREEDOM.
              DECEPTION~~~~
              the whole agenda is to enslave the world and one way to do it is through religious beliefs AND MOST PEOPLE are gullible.
              The deception is so deep and well planned, that it is extremely hard to get to the bottom of it.

              forinstance
              there is masses of information on Egypt....
              infact whole museums are filled up with their treasures and history yet not one word of history on a person named Moses and the slaves.
              researchers have told that NO pharaohs even lived at that time in history.
              the bible OT records 600,000 men were Hebrews - all up 2million persons went UNACCOUNTED FOR from all Egyptian history.
              not a murmur~~~
              to unsettle the whole economy of Egypt with the release of 2,000,000 souls is never recorded nor any thing ever found in their ''journey'' through the deserts.

              so to cont... Yeshua stated CAPTIVE. DECEPTION, FREEDOM. TRUTH
              why?
              He went on and on over this very thing..... why?
              What about if this is the ultimate deception?
              What about if the OT Bible is a symbolic, Illuminati blueprint, given to the people as a Holy Scripture, to follow literally into Revelation?

              If this is true, what would the consequences be? - would we see a world like it is today? - fruit inspect. !!!!!~~~~~!!!!

              Comment


              • #8
                Here is what you do Lucy.

                Thou lovest all devouring words, O thou deceitful tongue....The righteous also shall see, and fear, and shall laugh at him/her: Psalms 52:4-6,

                Comment


                • #9
                  now enter Yeshua.... THE WORD.

                  HIS gospel, sets the captives free.
                  THE OT did not.... why not?
                  it was filled with fear, murder and slaughter and sin/death ruled over all.
                  how interesting once our eyes are opened.

                  "The wages of sin is death"
                  what does this really mean....
                  This reveals certain energies don't belong in the human body.
                  what energies?
                  Those energies are fear, anger, and hostility. = all produced by the law of Moses.

                  This verse [the wages of sin and death] = is simply information letting us know how our body reacts.
                  how?
                  If we put enough disintergrating energy into our tissue structure by thoughts which miss the mark of our true being, our tissues will start falling apart, become diseased and we will die.
                  Through the Aramaic language this scripture becomes crystal clear!

                  Our bodies were not designed to house the energies of hostility and fear.
                  The problem is our mind has been imprinted with false belief systems which have caused us to entertain these energies within our bodies.


                  Yeshua NEVER introduced fear, nor war, nor slaughter. THE WHOLE GOSPEL IS ONE OF HEALING AND DELIVERANCE.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Paul's words to her rescue again.

                    "The wages of sin is death"

                    For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. Romans 6:23.

                    Again, Lucy condemns the apostle Paul, then steals his words.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Shame on you Lucy. Or, don't you ever have any shame of what your doing?

                      But G235 have renounced G550 the hidden things G2927 of dishonesty, G152 not G3361 walking G4043 in G1722 craftiness, G3834 nor G3366 handling G1389 G0 the word G3056 of God G2316 deceitfully; G1389 but G235 by manifestation G5321 of the truth G225 commending G4921 ourselves G1438 to G4314 every G3956 man's G444 conscience G4893 in the sight G1799 of God. G2316

                      http://www.blbclassic.org/search/tra...%2A+G152&t=KJV

                      But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully; but by manifestation of the truth commending ourselves to every man's conscience in the sight of God.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        a truthseeker compares systems side by side

                        a truth seeker doesn't pay attention to the ''mass consciousness'' of the religious - for they are in darkness
                        compare the GOSPEL to the LAW of mass murder lurid behaviours, incest [add nauseum] and a LAW basically ordered around a FEAR BASED reality, of man made dying priesthood, vestures and titled elite and temples of grandeur - that old system [in essence] has survive today was RELIGIOUS TRAPPINGS.

                        Yeshua came to show forth a NEW WAY.
                        the CAPTIVES to this whole system of indoctrinations ceased.

                        Yeshua stated very plainly a few simple truths most honest people can discern for themselves as they have a conscience

                        DID Yeshua teach us an eye for an eye = NO
                        DID Yeshua teach us that we were born in sin = NO
                        [He taught the kingdom of heaven is within you... amen]
                        DID Yeshua justify killing, even pre-emptively = NO

                        the other system to compare with is
                        Teaching fear and horrible judgments
                        teaching ethnic cleansing is OK
                        teaching animal sacrifices and blood shedding is OK
                        teaching their god wages war and kills others
                        teaching women are lower case than a man
                        teaching an angry bad tempered god emotional and very revengeful

                        to name just a few of their law gods bad habits~~~~~

                        ofcourse most know that -the Romans defiled the bible and then the british had their go to make it politically correct in their eyes.

                        the GOSPEL OF THE GOODNEWS is the new wine and cannot tolerate the old wine skin.
                        ''meme meme tekel perez'' = on the OT the demise of something very evil................................Heinrich Himmler quoted
                        ''many may not love us, but all shall fear us''
                        possibly a bible believing lutherian????? NO
                        Himmler too loathed the Christian virtue of neighborly love,
                        Longerich reports: “The principle of Christian compassion stands in the way of his (Himmler’s) insistence on an uncompromising treatment of ‘sub-humans.’”
                        Himmler strove to “replace Christian principles with Germanic virtues, such as toughness, as a precondition to persevere in the struggle against sub-humans and win the future.”
                        He added, “We live in the era of the ultimate showdown with Christianity” (280).

                        sub humans~~~~ sound familiar.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          IT IS interesting to ''see'' just how many OT ''heros'' one would have.....

                          nothing to do with today
                          They would be jailed.
                          what for exactly.

                          incest
                          raping
                          murdering
                          cruelty to animals.

                          putting it frankly. [ without making childish excuses over bible ''believer-ism'']

                          would the NT Father, condone incest raping murdering cruelty to animals.... during the Ministry of Yeshua?
                          the day the lust mad sex fiend Solomon opened the golden temple [worth trillions of $$$]= 25,000 oxen were slain! not inc. other animals.
                          how long would it take the slay 25,000 very large animals and where did they get this # from.?
                          They were so filled with blood lust none could minister and they fell down but called it ''the glory''?

                          how pityful [ so ugly so cruel so un-anointed]

                          Yet why not have......the highest creator THE WORD to show forth.

                          A perfect accord with nature.

                          the morality should be the highest, the purest.

                          The laws and regulations for the control of conduct should be just, wise, perfect, and perfectly adapted to the accomplishment of the ends desired.

                          It should contain nothing calculated to make man cruel, revengeful, vindictive or infamous.

                          have you seen the ''glory'' working today.. oh its a sight for sore eyes. AND THE CRAZY MASSES LOVE IT.
                          the guy has a ''big temple too and heaps of cash''....and everyone falls down!!!!!
                          https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xdUIqKJyD0Q

                          why are all these people NOT INSIDE A MENTAL INSTITUTION?
                          its is called ''religious brainwashing into A CULTure'' titled........................'' I am right''.
                          perhaps it is the bible that holds the greatest of all deceptions and everyone looks in all the wrong places..... the book of Revelation proves the man made agenda worked on by evil men from beginning to end with the cord of destructions running through each chapter.........minus the Gospels.


                          hey ITS SHOWTIME... enter stage right!!!!


                          ofcourse Benny can thank the 13th apostle saul/paul for his ''unknown giggerish tongues'' and his pastorial wealth Paul said he would have,
                          http://www.therichest.com/celebnetwo...inn-net-worth/

                          [Toufik Benedictus "Benny" Hinn]
                          Last edited by LucySmith; 05-17-2016, 11:35 PM.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            a vast deception......................the occult writters.

                            is it beyond a reasonable doubt.

                            http://henrymakow.com/2013/06/Can-We...mes-Bible.html

                            By John Hamer
                            (henrymakow.com)


                            In my view, the translation of the existing biblical texts prior to 1603 into what became the 'King James' Bible in 1611, was a work of social engineering by the English Elite. This was undertaken to coral the masses into mental servitude to Luciferianism/Rosicrucianism. It was a step away from true spirituality, whose tenets presented a clear danger to the establishment then, and as it still does today.

                            Most foreign language versions of the bible have been derived from the King James Bible; therefore these deliberate falsifications are compounded many-fold.

                            It is universally agreed that there are a mass of so-called 'translation errors' in the KJV, but what if anything, may be significant about that fact?

                            xJohn_Dee-ash-sm.JPGIn the late 16th century, immediately prior to the KJV becoming the de facto standard bible, Sir John Dee, left,
                            was an Enochian black magician. Dee and Francis Bacon, the author of 'The New Atlantis' were both instrumental in the production of the KJV. As the Bible itself exhorts us to stay away from occult and witchcraft practices, it is paradoxical that Christians should embrace a work mastered as it was by high-ranking members of the occult.

                            As well as being Queen Elizabeth's 'spymaster', Sir John Dee was a prominent member of The Worshipful Company of Mercers, which are Masonic Lodges by another name, led by a Worshipful Master. If the Puritans of the 16th and 17th centuries had the power, they would have burned adherents of the KJV at the stake for witchcraft!

                            Freemasonry was always Luciferian in nature. The first three (blue) degrees of the order up to Master Mason, are absolutely identical to the initial lower orders of witchcraft?

                            The Worshipful Company of Mercers is responsible for most of our social institutions. Both Gresham College and the Royal Society were derived from this Masonic organization. In turn, these two abominations have given us Luciferian pseudo-science through the gradual creation of a scientific dictatorship which denies the existence of a spiritual and moral dimension.

                            james6.jpgTHE BIBLE

                            The official KJV scholarship committee completed their work in 1610 and passed the manuscript to King James I (left). The King enlisted Sir Francis Bacon and his cohorts, who kept it in their possession until 1611, when it was published. We may never know exactly what happened in that intervening period.

                            Many Satanic symbols and Freemasonic motifs were originally placed within the pages of the 1611 KJV Bible. The Rosicrucians believed they were creating symbols which would emanate demonic power. I further believe that Bacon and King James firmly intended to create a Rosicrucian Bible to seduce the English-speaking peoples into the 'mystic Christianity' of Rosicrucianism.

                            The Masonic handshakes are extremely significant as they provide proof that Bacon and King James conspired to produce a totally Rosicrucian 'handbook'.

                            - See more at: http://henrymakow.com/2013/06/Can-We....90Pom4i8.dpuf
                            cont


                            https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unn1TX6y6hk

                            Yeshua will open the eyes when ye ask for eye salve.... other wise we remain as a slave to deception the whole world lies under but the elect. amen

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              by their fruits ye shall know them

                              http://religionvirus.blogspot.com.au...-by-satan.html

                              Sunday, March 15, 2009





                              Was the Bible Written by Satan?


                              Pretend you're on a jury for a trial over who wrote the Bible: God is suing Satan, because Satan is trying to claim HE wrote the Bible! But the trial hasn't gone like God hoped – Satan has a really good lawyer, and he's making mincemeat of God's case.

                              First of all, if God wrote the Bible, wouldn't He make everything totally clear, succinct, easy to understand, and unfailingly moral? I mean, He is God, right? Surely God should be a pretty good writer, able to write clearly and concisely.

                              Instead of beating around the bush about Jesus' divinity, He would just say, "Jesus and I are one and the same." Instead of conflicting messages about marriage, ambiguity about homosexuality, apparent approval of polygamy and slavery, God would have written, "Don't have sex before you're married." "Marriage is only between a man and a woman." "Slavery is a sin." "A man may only have one wife, and a wife only one husband." And so forth. Gosh, it seems pretty easy to me, writing clear, unambiguous commandments!

                              Just based on poor writing and lack of clarity, it's not looking good for God and His lawyer.

                              On top of that, there's all that stuff about killing adulterers, expelling a couple from the community if they have sex during a woman's period, requiring a virgin who is raped to marry her rapist, stoning anyone to death who works on the sabbath, and so many more laws that are just plain immoral.

                              Ladies and gentlemen of the jury, do you really believe that God wrote this stuff about Himself?

                              Now think about the reverse. What if you were Satan, plotting to do the worst thing you could? You're tired of tempting people into sin — corrupting people one at a time is inefficient. What could you do to amplify your evil? Why not enlist your victims to help you spread evil?

                              We all know that half-truths are much more dangerous than outright lies, that confusion is much harder to fight than clarity, and that we're all egotistical and want to believe we're better than everyone else.

                              The best way Satan could get his way would be to write a Bible that was filled with half truths, contradictions, moral ambiguity, appeals to egotism and a "chosen people," and confusing stories that everyone can interpret however they like.

                              Then, Satan would get his minions to convince the world that this "Bible" was the true word of God. Better yet, Satan would spread the idea that anyone who disagreed would go to Hell (very clever irony, given that he is Satan).

                              These half truths, contradictions and ambiguities would then start to do their work. People would interpret them differently, and begin to argue, and split into factions. Families would split. Villages would break into religious factions, with bitter hatred for one another. Whole countries would even go to war over this purported "Bible." People would be tortured and murdered when they failed to follow this "Bible," even if they were trying to do their best, just because someone else interpreted the Bible's crazy laws differently.

                              Satan would laugh with glee. What a wonderful trick he'd pulled!

                              Better yet, the fear inspired by Satan's Big Lie (about going to Hell if you don't believe) would cause good people to actually defend Satan's own writings! They would start a huge intellectual effort called "Christian apologetics," devoted to explaining why, in spite of the glaring errors, contradictions and immorality in Satan's Bible, it was actually all true, and was in fact the word of Satan's arch-rival, God. This would be Satan's ultimate achievement, that the humans that God created would actually turn against God and defend Satan's Bible!

                              So, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, what is your opinion? Who wrote the Bible, God, or Satan?

                              the fruit of lives explains the nature within, not the word on the lips nor in a book

                              beyond a reasonable doubt

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